Air Momentum Canceling For Kirby

[Atria]

Yesterday, I was asking around the tactical boards on how this technique worked and I understand how to do it. I'm just wondering if any of you guys know what the current strategy is for canceling air momentum both horizontally and vertically when using Kirby. Also, does anyone know what Kirby's fastest aerial move is duration wise? (fast start-up and low ending lag).

Also if by any chance, you know what another character's strategy is for canceling air momentum, (Lucario, Marth, Olimar, Pit, ROB and all of P.T.'s pokemon) then can you share with me what it is that you do to stop their momentum when knocked both horizontally and vertically at a high % as well? I would prefer it if you answered in the character's respective board because I'll be asking around there too. Thanks in advance!

 

[~Gonzo~]

the best move to use is his Dair, Dair's physics cancels a lot of horizontal momentum. coupled with good DI Kirby can reach percents as high as 200.

 

[Atria]

Apparently when it comes to canceling knockback momentum, moves that actually stop ALL momentum when used to attack enemies, (eg. Lucario's Dair) are the ones that don't work too well for canceling knockback momentum because you'll still be flying away from the stage even if you use them. Therefore, you have to use a move which has low start up time AS WELL AS low ending lag so you can regain control ASAP. Since Kirby's Dair has a long duration time, (IMO anyway) I don't his Dair would work well.

I've been told that Kirby's Bair is his fastest aerial 'duration wise' and by 2 others that it's his Uair. So I think it might be the Uair. IDK however. Also, I've been told by someone that Kirby's hammer can further cancel knockback momentum further when you do the following: Uair + Jump + Hammer. Would most of you agree with this?

 

[~Gonzo~]

Apparently when it comes to canceling knockback momentum, moves that actually stop ALL momentum when used to attack enemies, (eg. Lucario's Dair) are the ones that don't work too well for canceling knockback momentum because you'll still be flying away from the stage even if you use them. Therefore, you have to use a move which has low start up time AS WELL AS low ending lag so you can regain control ASAP. Since Kirby's Dair has a long duration time, (IMO anyway) I don't his Dair would work well.

I've been told that Kirby's Bair is his fastest aerial 'duration wise' and by 2 others that it's his Uair. So I think it might be the Uair. IDK however. Also, I've been told by someone that Kirby's hammer can further cancel knockback momentum further when you do the following: Uair + Jump + Hammer. Would most of you agree with this?

I can tell u from experience that Dair is the best move to use. Nothing else will let u live as long as Dair will. I have already tried a multitude of different aerial momentum negation and Dair works the best. Dair to Jump + hammer is the ultimate.

If ur speaking of breaking momentum Kirby's Brick will but it comes out to slow to be useful

 

[Kirby Redux]

Gonzo is correct. D-air cancels most vertical and horizontal momentum when knocked back. Some people (like myself) use F-air and/or B-air when sent horizontally due to the relatively long time D-air takes to execute and the quickness of the other two moves. Then again, they don't cancel as much movement, so if you get hit hard off the side, you're more screwed than if you get hit toward the top of the stage, in which case you use D-air, Jump, Hammer, and aim for the corner. If you are talking about any "super armor" which cancels movement, Kirby has no move like that except Stone, which only cancels some damage, but not knockback, and can be broken. Plus, it comes out too slowly to use practically in a match. Oh, and U-air really isn't used for Knockback canceling, if only because it's harder to push up than it is left or right on the C-stick :D.

 

[~Gonzo~]

If ur DI is good u shouldnt be sent to far horizontal that ur Dair can't save u, although if u did get hit by a surprise hit Uair to jump plus hammer can cancel a lot of momentum.

 

[fromundaman]

Well ****... I didn't know that. Thanks Gonzo!

 

[~Gonzo~]

Well ****... I didn't know that. Thanks Gonzo!

no problem peeps

 

[Mr_Orion]

Therefore, you have to use a move which has low start up time AS WELL AS low ending lag so you can regain control ASAP. Since Kirby's Dair has a long duration time, (IMO anyway) I don't his Dair would work well.

Hmm...sounds a lot like an aerial Swing Hammer. But use your Dair before tempting the lag that the hammer gives you.

EDIT: Crap, sorry. Did not read the later posts by Gonzo. I need to start reading the entire thread before posting. *facepalm*

 

[Atria]

Okay, what I'm gathering from here is that if you get hit by an attack and have a lot of space/time to react, Kirby's Dair is his aerial move of choice for canceling either vertical knockback momentum when knocked upwards or horizontal knockback momentum when attacked sideways at a high %? Otherwise if you're caught off guard or don't have a lot of space/time to react in, you would use Kirby's Uair and then jumping + hammer etc. to cancel knockback momentum in either direction. Is this correct?

Lastly what is Kirby's fastest aerial 'duration wise' is it Uair or Bair ? I know I've been told to Dair, but just incase I've been hit by a surprise attack which I didn't see coming and need to react fast. Also, is the stone not as useful as his hammer when it comes to canceling knockback momentum even further?

 

[~Gonzo~]

Okay, what I'm gathering from here is that if you get hit by an attack and have a lot of space/time to react, Kirby's Dair is his aerial move of choice for canceling either vertical knockback momentum when knocked upwards or horizontal knockback momentum when attacked sideways at a high %? Otherwise if you're caught off guard or don't have a lot of space/time to react in, you would use Kirby's Uair and then jumping + hammer etc. to cancel knockback momentum in either direction. Is this correct?

Lastly what is Kirby's fastest aerial 'duration wise' is it Uair or Bair ? I know I've been told to Dair, but just incase I've been hit by a surprise attack which I didn't see coming and need to react fast. Also, is the stone not as useful as his hammer when it comes to canceling knockback momentum even further?

Uair is faster. However, u should usually be able to get enough DI to use ur Dair. Even if u get hit straight out Dair is the best move to use but we dont use it b/c that puts u in a very very dangerous position for recovering.

 

[Mr_Orion]

oh yeah. What would we do without ~Gonzo~?

 

[Atria]

Ah, thanks for the help you guys! =D If you guys are able to help me out with any of those other characters I mentioned, then you can post anything you know in the respective character board or here. (Almost everybody else is doing it. It's like as if they didn't read my open post! >_> Oh well... )

 

[kirbz]

i recommend airdodge -> stone -> stone cancel

 

[FB Dj_Iskascribble]

Airdodge isnt the best for canceling hitstun, it is definitely aerials.

 

[Haunted]

It would seem as if Kirby's down aerial attack is indubitably the best method to cancel air momentum.

Generally any aerial maneuver will indeed cancel out momentum more efficiently than air dodging.

 

[Falconv1.0]

I kinda wonder what the Kirby boards would be like without Gonzo or some Gonzo type figure.


It's a scary place.

 

[Mr_Orion]

No! I don't want to live in your horrible hell-world, Falcon!

 

[~Gonzo~]

lolz guys


Lucario: From what i've seen of Azen'z Lucario, Dair plus godly DI, he doesnt even use his double jump
Marth: OverB, the uncombo'd version though
Pit: Glide will break all momentum
Rob: Bair and good DI

 

[Atria]

Do you know Pit's fastest aerial move by any chance? I still can't rule out whether it is his Fair or Bair! Also from what the other character boards have told me:

Lucario: Fair + Jump (I thought it was Dair too, but apparently it doesn't work as well as his Fair. You could be able to use the Dair near the end of the knockback momentum to cancel it fully plus stall however.)
Marth: Fair + Jump + >B once. (You were right with this one! =D)
Pit: Fair/Bair + glide (Just found out for myself today that gliding is useful when it comes to canceling horizontal knockback momentum. Still can't decide what Pit's fastest aerial move is however... >_<)
ROB: Gyro toss + Jump or Fair + Jump (apparently they jump to get themselves in a good position first. When they think the knockback momentum is almost over, they begin to use Bair back towards the stage.)

I've haven't really put much practice into this yet as I'm still gathering data for 2 more characters. (Pit and P.T.) Of course in conjunction to performing these procedures, you should always DI your opponent's attack first to increase your chances of survival.

 

[Pink murder]

Lol took me this long to find out about air momentum canceling x_x
I usually airdodge, but seeing as Dair is better, im going to use it.

 

[Mr_Orion]

I will back the use of a stone>stone cancel. Nice catch, Kirbz.

 

[Pink murder]

Just noticed how stupid my last comment sounded x_x
"Do you Dair twards the stage, or twards the edge"
Comon, wth was i thinking xD

 

[Kitamerby]

lolz guys


Lucario: From what i've seen of Azen'z Lucario, Dair plus godly DI, he doesnt even use his double jump
Marth: OverB, the uncombo'd version though
Pit: Glide will break all momentum
Rob: Bair and good DI

Azen does it wrong. He should be Fairing.

Marth's overB doesn't counter momentum if I recall right, and cannot be performed in hitstun.

I don't think it works that way for Pit or ROB, either. <<

Luc should Fair, Marth should Fair/Uair, Pit should probably Fair, ROB should probably Fair, but if I recall right, I heard somewhere that ROB cannot momentum cancel with his aerials. Maybe my source was wrong, though.

 

[8BitRevolver]

hold up i thought that the bair and uair were best for momentum cancelling cause they come out quicker and if you fast fall it, it does the same thing as the dair

 

[Pink murder]

^^^
Yea x(
*Is confused*

 

[fromundaman]

Well, a few ROB players I know say Fair is better for momentum canceling.

 

[Kirby Redux]

For most instances, use Dair. When you aren't going really far from being hit, use Bair or Fair. Uair isnt necessary.

 

[Pink murder]

Well, a few ROB players I know say Fair is better for momentum canceling.

Well thats for Rob XD
We're talking about kirby, unless the rob player was talking about kirby...
Ive also heard that the rock is great for verticle momentum canceling

 

[~Gonzo~]

Well thats for Rob XD
We're talking about kirby, unless the rob player was talking about kirby...
Ive also heard that the rock is great for verticle momentum canceling

Rock does break all momentum buts its to slow to get out in time like glide or bucket is.

Well, a few ROB players I know say Fair is better for momentum canceling.

My personal experience and other pro ROB players all Fair and then Bair or Jump Bair depending on how hard u get hit. I just use Bair cuz the percent that the Fair and Dair differ is nominal, IMO.

hold up i thought that the bair and uair were best for momentum cancelling cause they come out quicker and if you fast fall it, it does the same thing as the dair

Sorry 8bit but ur wrong here. The momentum canceling works is like this. Imagine every move has a momentum strength. Bair, Uair, and Fair can all be DI'd normally almost wherever u want. But when u Dair u can't move urself (DI) to far to the left or right once u start it like u could with Bair, Uair, and Fair. This is the physics behind why Dair is the best momentum canceler for Kirby.

Do you know Pit's fastest aerial move by any chance? I still can't rule out whether it is his Fair or Bair! Also from what the other character boards have told me:

Lucario: Fair + Jump (I thought it was Dair too, but apparently it doesn't work as well as his Fair. You could be able to use the Dair near the end of the knockback momentum to cancel it fully plus stall however.)
Marth: Fair + Jump + >B once. (You were right with this one! =D)
Pit: Fair/Bair + glide (Just found out for myself today that gliding is useful when it comes to canceling horizontal knockback momentum. Still can't decide what Pit's fastest aerial move is however... >_<)
ROB: Gyro toss + Jump or Fair + Jump (apparently they jump to get themselves in a good position first. When they think the knockback momentum is almost over, they begin to use Bair back towards the stage.)

I've haven't really put much practice into this yet as I'm still gathering data for 2 more characters. (Pit and P.T.) Of course in conjunction to performing these procedures, you should always DI your opponent's attack first to increase your chances of survival.

As for Azen does it wrong, this is form the last time i remember, he may have changed what move he uses to momentum cancel although his DI is good enough to perhaps buy him enough time to use two Dairs or w/e.

 

[Pink murder]

Rock does break all momentum buts its to slow to get out in time like glide or bucket is.

So your suggesting that we don't use rock as a momentum canceler? If we should, when would be the best time to do it?

 

[~Gonzo~]

So your suggesting that we don't use rock as a momentum canceler? If we should, when would be the best time to do it?

Unfortunately, never, Kirby's brick has so much startup time that the even if u use it ASAP after getting hit Dair would save u just the same. Brick breaks momentum only when kirby full transforms into the stone. During the transformation he's still susceptible to momentum. If Brick was as fast in the air as it was on the ground then we could definitely Brick break our momentum but as that's not possible brick is useless for stopping momentum.

 

[Atria]

I'm not quite sure when to use Kirby's stone. (Probably near the end of the knockback momentum?) I don't use it however because after I used Dair, it still sent me flying when I used Kirby's stone. (lol) I've been told however, that Kirby's >B move is good for canceling knockback momentum even further after you jump.

Yeah, I originally thought that Kirby's fastest aerial move (Uair) was the way to go, but it turns out that Kirby's Dair is the best move for the job. Also FYI people, for some characters their airdodge is faster than any of their aerials. (Eg. Ike. Therefore, Ike has to use an airdodge + jump to cancel horizontal knockback momentum.) Not all characters follow the same trend when it comes to canceling horizontal knockback momentum which is why I'm asking around the other character boards on how to do this. Again, I thought it was Kirby's Uair that was best for the job. But apparently it was his Dair that was the best aerial move to use for this situation thanks to Gonzo's Kirby/tournament experience which is WWAAYY better than mine because I haven't ever been to one yet or been pushed to a situation where I've had to push/use my character to their fullest potential. (Lousy Mackay being a desert wasteland for people who own a Wii+Brawl...) So don't feel bad if you didn't know, I surely didn't!

 

[Pink murder]

I see...
So its settled! Dair is the best momentum canceler for kirby.
This will surely help me out in my subsequential matches.
Thanks!

 

[8BitRevolver]

Sorry 8bit but ur wrong here. The momentum canceling works is like this. Imagine every move has a momentum strength. Bair, Uair, and Fair can all be DI'd normally almost wherever u want. But when u Dair u can't move urself (DI) to far to the left or right once u start it like u could with Bair, Uair, and Fair. This is the physics behind why Dair is the best momentum canceler for Kirby.

Can u tell me how u DI with the dair, cause i when i try to use dair i just die cause it doesnt come out quick enough. I use u-air and what i do is if im hit to the right i hold up left on control stick and immediately u-air. after I u-air I FF it and then hold left on the control stick then hammer to get back to the stage. Since the uair and bair come out the quickest they seem more useful. I usually live to about 150% against most but kirby is also incredibly light lol

 

[~Gonzo~]

Can u tell me how u DI with the dair, cause i when i try to use dair i just die cause it doesnt come out quick enough. I use u-air and what i do is if im hit to the right i hold up left on control stick and immediately u-air. after I u-air I FF it and then hold left on the control stick then hammer to get back to the stage. Since the uair and bair come out the quickest they seem more useful. I usually live to about 150% against most but kirby is also incredibly light lol

As soon as i'm hit i smash up, then i spam down on my C stck to force the Dair ASAP, Kirby will begin to make a sharp curve through the air, as he does guide ur DI towards the corner. I've lived up to 223% before. On average i die at about 180%, but thats b/c i didn't smash up fast enough and my time to DI is severely reduced. Sometimes if i notice i got hit outwards very hard i'll start spamming jump during the Dair and as soon as i c Kirby jump i'll Hammer. This cancels any remaining horizontal momentum.

 

[8BitRevolver]

As soon as i'm hit i smash up, then i spam down on my C stck to force the Dair ASAP, Kirby will begin to make a sharp curve through the air, as he does guide ur DI towards the corner. I've lived up to 223% before. On average i die at about 180%, but thats b/c i didn't smash up fast enough and my time to DI is severely reduced. Sometimes if i notice i got hit outwards very hard i'll start spamming jump during the Dair and as soon as i c Kirby jump i'll Hammer. This cancels any remaining horizontal momentum.

k im gonna have to try this out lol
id love to live that long with kirby of all ppl

 

[MakoMako]

I'm not quite sure when to use Kirby's stone. (Probably near the end of the knockback momentum?) I don't use it however because after I used Dair, it still sent me flying when I used Kirby's stone. (lol) I've been told however, that Kirby's >B move is good for canceling knockback momentum even further after you jump.

Yeah, I originally thought that Kirby's fastest aerial move (Uair) was the way to go, but it turns out that Kirby's Dair is the best move for the job. Also FYI people, for some characters their airdodge is faster than any of their aerials. (Eg. Ike. Therefore, Ike has to use an airdodge + jump to cancel horizontal knockback momentum.) Not all characters follow the same trend when it comes to canceling horizontal knockback momentum which is why I'm asking around the other character boards on how to do this. Again, I thought it was Kirby's Uair that was best for the job. But apparently it was his Dair that was the best aerial move to use for this situation thanks to Gonzo's Kirby/tournament experience which is WWAAYY better than mine because I haven't ever been to one yet or been pushed to a situation where I've had to push/use my character to their fullest potential. (Lousy Mackay being a desert wasteland for people who own a Wii+Brawl...) So don't feel bad if you didn't know, I surely didn't!

I think using air hammer to cancel momentum will just kill you faster, seeing as using momentum changing specials or even jumping during the process of knockback increases the distance in which you are actually knocked back. Something that alot of people don't know.

 

[pkblaze]

As soon as i'm hit i smash up, then i spam down on my C stck to force the Dair ASAP, Kirby will begin to make a sharp curve through the air, as he does guide ur DI towards the corner. I've lived up to 223% before. On average i die at about 180%, but thats b/c i didn't smash up fast enough and my time to DI is severely reduced. Sometimes if i notice i got hit outwards very hard i'll start spamming jump during the Dair and as soon as i c Kirby jump i'll Hammer. This cancels any remaining horizontal momentum.

wait... so i use Dair, and DI upwards? this is if i'm knocked to the side, right?

 

[~Gonzo~]

wait... so i use Dair, and DI upwards? this is if i'm knocked to the side, right?

1000 yeahz