Aggressive vs. Defensive
An in depth look into G&W playstyles
Areas in YELLOW still need to be completed. Let's discuss our opinions and get this thing finished. It can easily help out new G&W players as well as the old.
Table of Contents
1) Definitions
2) Strategies
3) Matchups
- 3a) Quick Matchup List
- 3b) In-depth Matchup Discussion
4) Videos
5) Testimonials
1) Definitions
Aggressive * - this style is just basically approaching with bair and just ******. Apply the constant pressure until your opponent dies. This is a very easy style to play, IMO.
Defensive - With a defensive style, G&W is not approaching at all. What forces your opponent to approach is your percent lead and the fact that they don't have a projectile. Defensive is more of a campy style. It only works against a few characters, but it does work well against them.
Hybrid * - It takes some traits from aggressive, some from defensive and adds some new traits. It's a hybrid. Not a combination. We fuse both aggressive and defensive to play hybrid. It's more about waiting around/near your opponent with jumps and bair. It's mostly just looking for openings in your opponent's game.
* Discuss what you think these definitions are. We should come up with a clear definition for each that we can all agree to use when ranking G&W's playstyle against certain characters.
2) Strategies
General strategies with regards to the aggressive/defensive playstyles of G&W.
General Defensive Strategy 1 - by Neb
I think Game & Watch's protective playstyle bases around reflecting approaches, with the overall goal being to ensnare his aggressor into a trap. Baiting and brickwalls play important pieces as they breakdown you and your opponents approach, especial when opposing characters with solid barriers. Also playing sissy, like running away and seizing his flat fingers over the end of a ledge.
Against Metaknight and Marth, or just adversaries who lack projectiles, I like to stay at a 3-4 character distance (a safe interval), then using chef, toss one or two pieces of food at my opponent and watch what they do. Like a cheap imitation of something Sagat or Ryu would do in Street Fighter; baiting with a hadouken, and punishing advances with shoryuken.
Similarly, if my opponent leaps I can intercept anything they do by flinging myself into their body with 'chute's invincibility frames, mocking a dragon punch. Remember if you cancel upb with a special/aerial, you retain your SJ, so don't always commit yourself with nair and dair. Any type of dodge is easily dismissed by charged smashes or lingering hitboxes. This usually leads into a juggle trap. Works fine with uair or nair as well depending on the character and their degree of priority/range.
If your opponent lacks disjointed hitboxes, instead of Upb'ing, you can punish a jump/aerial with pivot fsmash, tipper dsmash, or crossup usmash as these moves will attach to hurtboxes and expand the sweep of your attack. A shield grab, or running pivot grab is also effective and may sometimes coin more damage than a smash by tossing into traps (uthrow juggle, dthrow oki, fthrow/bthrow off stage).
If they shield, you can continue, or poke with bair in order to stab with other objects. They roll toward you, punish with whatever, but if they roll away, just walk up and reset the scenario.
Summary:
Chef 1-2x, punish reaction.
Attack Ground: upb, out-prioritize, walk away, shield game
Attack Air: upb, out-prioritize, crossup
Dodge: lingering hitbox, charge smash, timed attack
Roll Away: reset scenario
Roll Toward: do anything
Shield: poke, reset scenario
3a) Quick Matchup List
A list of all the characters and what playstyle should be used to beat them. For some, it doesn't matter. For others, it's game breaking.
Aggressive *
Toon Link
Bowser
Olimar
Defensive *
Marth
Metaknight
Diddy Kong
Falco
Ice Climbers
Snake
Luigi
Hybrid *
King DeDeDe
Wario
Unsorted *
Donkey Kong
Zero Suit Samus
Ike
Kirby
Wolf
Ganon
Sheik
Bowser
Link
Lucario
Rob
Samus
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Charizard
Sonic
Mario
Yoshi
Peach
Fox
Pikachu
Pit
Zelda
Ness
Lucas
Captain Falcon
Jigglypuff
* This is just a rough list, we need to discuss and figure where each character belows. Also we should take into consideration what happens when you/opponent has the "percent lead" and time is of the essence.
3b) In-depth Matchup Discussion
I also want to try and have a description for why each character belongs in a certain category. Here is where that goes. Please contribute to why certain playstyles should be used agaisnt certain characters.
Toon Link
The more aggressive, the less likely projectiles can interfere with your game.
Bowser
All of your moves out-range or out-prioritize Bowser's moveset.
Olimar
Keeping pressure in this match is golden. The less pikmin Olimar has, the better.
Diddy Kong
lou4222 says: I have tons and tons of matchup experience against Diddy Kong. I play against AlphaZealot all of the time and the main thing that Ive learned is patience. As long as you arent playing on FD you can be patient. For example when Diddy has two bananas out jump around on platforms. When one of the bananas disappears then you can make your move. If they have one banana out you cant get banana locked and his options are much more limited. Sure you wills till get hit every now and again but I have found it easy to combo diddy. Turtle and Nair are incredibly effective and combo well. Once you lose control over diddy and he gets his bananas out again, go back to the platforms and wait for one to disappear I hope that helps. Just be patient!
Luigi
Against Luigi it's best to play defensively. He can't approach you if you downtilt, fair, or nair. Downtilt also beats fireballs. If you get caught up in one of his combos you can up-b for safety. Try to avoid hits as best as possible, because Luigi can kill you at ridiculously low percents with his shoryuken.
King DeDeDe
The hybrid playstyle seems to work best in this matchup. It only makes sense, have to play defensively on the ground and aggressive in the air with N-Air.
Wario
Hybrid is best for wario. You definitely cant just be defensive against wario because he can be safe on so many of his poke moves and punish you trying to punish him. Also his shield pressure game is solid. His aerial mobility will allow him to punish most whiffed attempts, and an SDI'ed turtle will get you punished everytime. If done properly "turtle keep-away" works well. But this can also get you in trouble as it did with me. I spaced a few turtles poorly and ate his forward smash. IMO this match up is 50/50 yet incredibly hard to play. Both play styles work for it, but if you are super aggressive you better be careful.
4) Videos
A collection of videos to visually show the effects of a certain playstyle vs different characters.
Snake: Defensive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlMs80f6dOg - UTD Zac vs. Ice on Lylat Cruise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boVqr8gBKvI - UTD Zac vs. Ice on Yoshi's Island
Metaknight: Defensive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=492NiHHben4 - UTD Zac vs. Dojo on Green Greens
Toon Link: Aggressive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBLhwGTwZvE Neb vs. Pitru on Final Destination
* Think you have a video that proves a point? Post and I'll add it.
5) Testimonials
I know this is a little messy, but I didn't have much to work with. A few G&W decided to start a discussion about the playstyles of G&W and I thought I'd jump on the task of bringing the discussion to everyone.
Discuss!
An in depth look into G&W playstyles
Areas in YELLOW still need to be completed. Let's discuss our opinions and get this thing finished. It can easily help out new G&W players as well as the old.
Table of Contents
1) Definitions
2) Strategies
3) Matchups
- 3a) Quick Matchup List
- 3b) In-depth Matchup Discussion
4) Videos
5) Testimonials
1) Definitions
Aggressive * - this style is just basically approaching with bair and just ******. Apply the constant pressure until your opponent dies. This is a very easy style to play, IMO.
Defensive - With a defensive style, G&W is not approaching at all. What forces your opponent to approach is your percent lead and the fact that they don't have a projectile. Defensive is more of a campy style. It only works against a few characters, but it does work well against them.
Hybrid * - It takes some traits from aggressive, some from defensive and adds some new traits. It's a hybrid. Not a combination. We fuse both aggressive and defensive to play hybrid. It's more about waiting around/near your opponent with jumps and bair. It's mostly just looking for openings in your opponent's game.
* Discuss what you think these definitions are. We should come up with a clear definition for each that we can all agree to use when ranking G&W's playstyle against certain characters.
2) Strategies
General strategies with regards to the aggressive/defensive playstyles of G&W.
General Defensive Strategy 1 - by Neb
I think Game & Watch's protective playstyle bases around reflecting approaches, with the overall goal being to ensnare his aggressor into a trap. Baiting and brickwalls play important pieces as they breakdown you and your opponents approach, especial when opposing characters with solid barriers. Also playing sissy, like running away and seizing his flat fingers over the end of a ledge.
Against Metaknight and Marth, or just adversaries who lack projectiles, I like to stay at a 3-4 character distance (a safe interval), then using chef, toss one or two pieces of food at my opponent and watch what they do. Like a cheap imitation of something Sagat or Ryu would do in Street Fighter; baiting with a hadouken, and punishing advances with shoryuken.
Similarly, if my opponent leaps I can intercept anything they do by flinging myself into their body with 'chute's invincibility frames, mocking a dragon punch. Remember if you cancel upb with a special/aerial, you retain your SJ, so don't always commit yourself with nair and dair. Any type of dodge is easily dismissed by charged smashes or lingering hitboxes. This usually leads into a juggle trap. Works fine with uair or nair as well depending on the character and their degree of priority/range.
If your opponent lacks disjointed hitboxes, instead of Upb'ing, you can punish a jump/aerial with pivot fsmash, tipper dsmash, or crossup usmash as these moves will attach to hurtboxes and expand the sweep of your attack. A shield grab, or running pivot grab is also effective and may sometimes coin more damage than a smash by tossing into traps (uthrow juggle, dthrow oki, fthrow/bthrow off stage).
If they shield, you can continue, or poke with bair in order to stab with other objects. They roll toward you, punish with whatever, but if they roll away, just walk up and reset the scenario.
Summary:
Chef 1-2x, punish reaction.
Attack Ground: upb, out-prioritize, walk away, shield game
Attack Air: upb, out-prioritize, crossup
Dodge: lingering hitbox, charge smash, timed attack
Roll Away: reset scenario
Roll Toward: do anything
Shield: poke, reset scenario
3a) Quick Matchup List
A list of all the characters and what playstyle should be used to beat them. For some, it doesn't matter. For others, it's game breaking.
Aggressive *
Toon Link
Bowser
Olimar
Defensive *
Marth
Metaknight
Diddy Kong
Falco
Ice Climbers
Snake
Luigi
Hybrid *
King DeDeDe
Wario
Unsorted *
Donkey Kong
Zero Suit Samus
Ike
Kirby
Wolf
Ganon
Sheik
Bowser
Link
Lucario
Rob
Samus
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Charizard
Sonic
Mario
Yoshi
Peach
Fox
Pikachu
Pit
Zelda
Ness
Lucas
Captain Falcon
Jigglypuff
* This is just a rough list, we need to discuss and figure where each character belows. Also we should take into consideration what happens when you/opponent has the "percent lead" and time is of the essence.
3b) In-depth Matchup Discussion
I also want to try and have a description for why each character belongs in a certain category. Here is where that goes. Please contribute to why certain playstyles should be used agaisnt certain characters.
Toon Link
The more aggressive, the less likely projectiles can interfere with your game.
Bowser
All of your moves out-range or out-prioritize Bowser's moveset.
Olimar
Keeping pressure in this match is golden. The less pikmin Olimar has, the better.
Diddy Kong
lou4222 says: I have tons and tons of matchup experience against Diddy Kong. I play against AlphaZealot all of the time and the main thing that Ive learned is patience. As long as you arent playing on FD you can be patient. For example when Diddy has two bananas out jump around on platforms. When one of the bananas disappears then you can make your move. If they have one banana out you cant get banana locked and his options are much more limited. Sure you wills till get hit every now and again but I have found it easy to combo diddy. Turtle and Nair are incredibly effective and combo well. Once you lose control over diddy and he gets his bananas out again, go back to the platforms and wait for one to disappear I hope that helps. Just be patient!
Luigi
Against Luigi it's best to play defensively. He can't approach you if you downtilt, fair, or nair. Downtilt also beats fireballs. If you get caught up in one of his combos you can up-b for safety. Try to avoid hits as best as possible, because Luigi can kill you at ridiculously low percents with his shoryuken.
King DeDeDe
The hybrid playstyle seems to work best in this matchup. It only makes sense, have to play defensively on the ground and aggressive in the air with N-Air.
Wario
Hybrid is best for wario. You definitely cant just be defensive against wario because he can be safe on so many of his poke moves and punish you trying to punish him. Also his shield pressure game is solid. His aerial mobility will allow him to punish most whiffed attempts, and an SDI'ed turtle will get you punished everytime. If done properly "turtle keep-away" works well. But this can also get you in trouble as it did with me. I spaced a few turtles poorly and ate his forward smash. IMO this match up is 50/50 yet incredibly hard to play. Both play styles work for it, but if you are super aggressive you better be careful.
4) Videos
A collection of videos to visually show the effects of a certain playstyle vs different characters.
Snake: Defensive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlMs80f6dOg - UTD Zac vs. Ice on Lylat Cruise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boVqr8gBKvI - UTD Zac vs. Ice on Yoshi's Island
Metaknight: Defensive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=492NiHHben4 - UTD Zac vs. Dojo on Green Greens
Toon Link: Aggressive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBLhwGTwZvE Neb vs. Pitru on Final Destination
* Think you have a video that proves a point? Post and I'll add it.
5) Testimonials
I have been a Game and Watch main for several months now and the main thing I have realized is that I need to sometimes play aggressive and sometimes play defensive in certain matchups. I regularly get to play against Quivo ( one of the best Toon Links around) and I have to be unbelievably aggressive here or I will just get pummeled with projectiles. It is important to be the aggressor with Turtles, Nair etc. I also always get to play against Alphazealot ( a very good Diddy) and I am defensive to the point where it is almost boring.
But as some of the other players said it is a fine mix. Play defensively until you find your openning. Once you attack attack hard and get off some combos. The more you play and the more matchup experience you gain, you will quickly understand which characters call for aggressive and defensive styles of play.
When I play Diddys I seriously sit on plats until they lose one of their bananas. When they try to throw another one I usually try t intercept it and throw it off the stage. If they have one banana out that is when you go aggressive. Otherwise you will get banana locked to oblivion
Opinions on Defensive matchups:
ICs(for obvious reasons) until you split them up and then you absolute go crazy
Opinions on Aggressive matchups:
Toon Link(otherwise projectiles destroy you)
Bowser(every move you have destroys him)
I just think since we have the lightest character in the game we HAVE to play defensively a great amount of the time. Every percent we rack up means so much more to GW mains than heavies.
I know this is a little messy, but I didn't have much to work with. A few G&W decided to start a discussion about the playstyles of G&W and I thought I'd jump on the task of bringing the discussion to everyone.
Discuss!