After Ultimate, will the next Smash be a complete reboot?

[lucasla]

For some it's less about the characters and more the modes. Because Break the Targets and classic All-Star were super essential apparently. Like they want Melee or Brawl 2 in terms of modes.

If anyone wants a more fleshed out SSE, maybe shift focus to a spin-off built from the ground up to be a fun platformer like Kirby instead of a fighter, instead of implicitly telling others they're not having fun the right way.

I dont know if you understand that when I ask for new better modes, singleplayer and online, I dont mean I want a less good core gameplay, right? And yeah, both things can be acomplished. They did an almost perfect core experience from WiiU to Ultimate in 2 years. One year more would may be a decent amount of time to build a better singleplayer mode than WoL. I would totally wait. Instead, we probably will not see a new Smash until the next nintendo console.

This also happens because my own experience with Smash4 and Ultimate. The core gameplay is awesome, but online doesnt work properly because of lag, so I cant enjoy the game all the time I want, and I cant reunite friends all the moments I want to play too, and because just the use of the core gameplay to fight NPCs or boring minimodes is not fun for so long, I would preffer to have the option to play good singleplayer modes.

Even Sakurai wants to do better singleplayer modes and did what he could to add some decent singleplayer mode to Ultimate, send an email to him to stop trying and only make campaigns in kirby games then.

 

[meleebrawler]

I dont know if you understand that when I ask for new better modes, singleplayer and online, I dont mean I want a less good core gameplay, right? And yeah, both things can be acomplished. They did an almost perfect core experience from WiiU to Ultimate in 2 years. One year more would may be a decent amount of time to build a better singleplayer mode than WoL. I would totally wait. Instead, we probably will not see a new Smash until the next nintendo console.

This also happens because my own experience with Smash4 and Ultimate. The core gameplay is awesome, but online doesnt work properly because of lag, so I cant enjoy the game all the time I want, and I cant reunite friends all the moments I want to play too, and because just the use of the core gameplay to fight NPCs or boring minimodes is not fun for so long, I would preffer to have the option to play good singleplayer modes.

Even Sakurai wants to do better singleplayer modes and did what he could to add some decent singleplayer mode to Ultimate, send an email to him to stop trying and only make campaigns in kirby games then.

Sakurai doesn't make Kirby games anymore but whatever. He is free to try making such a game whenever the opportunity presents itself, but the issue is that if a large amount of characters are removed in the process, then the fans will demand nothing less than perfection to forgive such a big loss, with any and all flaws overblown to high heaven. And then what happens? We start having this conversation all over again, this time wishing for such modes to get the ax in favour of other things. You can already find stuff like that in forums for single-player Ultimate content here.

The risk-reward factor just isn't there for new modes with less characters, trading a huge amount of multiplayer variety for modes that most people only play once, or on an infrequent basis. The whole controversy around Pokemon Sword & Shield is a perfect example of how this scenario could play out; a huge divide in the fanbase.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I do think a few moveset overhauls are in order for a total reboot. For example what they did to Bowser and Pit for Smash 4, or Link to Ultimate. Even if it's only subtle like how Pikachu functions now. There's just a few cases of move sets of older characters that don't really fully represent the characters well.

As for cut characters, am pretty damn certain Ultimate is gonna end up as the main engine for next Smash games whatsoever, so it'll be easier to implement them as DLC characters. It would sell like hotcakes of course.

Then again I think the hypothetical Smash after Ultimate will literally just be Ultimate 1.75... New / old modes, new Adventure Mode, new characters but basically an improved version of Ultimate in all other ways. I wouldn't be surprised if it was called Smash Bros. Ultimate Deluxe.

 

[RouffWestie]

Remember how ridiculous the idea of a Smash 4 port was to so many users back before Ultimate was revealed?
Man how times have changed.

 

[lucasla]

I do think a few moveset overhauls are in order for a total reboot. For example what they did to Bowser and Pit for Smash 4, or Link to Ultimate. Even if it's only subtle like how Pikachu functions now. There's just a few cases of move sets of older characters that don't really fully represent the characters well.

As for cut characters, am pretty damn certain Ultimate is gonna end up as the main engine for next Smash games whatsoever, so it'll be easier to implement them as DLC characters. It would sell like hotcakes of course.

Then again I think the hypothetical Smash after Ultimate will literally just be Ultimate 1.75... New / old modes, new Adventure Mode, new characters but basically an improved version of Ultimate in all other ways. I wouldn't be surprised if it was called Smash Bros. Ultimate Deluxe.

They need to focus in the online experience. People need to have a Smash game that can be played online properly. Make better ranked mode, add dedicated servers, or a mixed approach between dedicated servers and P2P for 1v1 matches. I dont know, but something needs to be done on the online of this game.

 

[liet]

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate is shaping up to be Sakurai's Ultimate vision for Smash Bros. Every character in series history, plus new ones, new gameplay tweaks additions for casual and competitive play, more than 100 stages, and 28 hours worth of music. It really does feel like this was what Smash Bros. was envisioned to be. But, what comes next? With Sakurai putting all his effort into making the Ultimate version of this legendary series, where does Smash go from here?

Specifically, we'll we be seeing the game after be a completely fresh start? That being a smaller first-party exclusive roster, heavily redone gameplay, and generally being a reboot of sorts. Sakurai has said he's willing to make more Smash games if there's demand, but during Ultimate's development, he pondered doing a BotW style reboot of the series, but felt it'd be faster to simply improve on and refine what Smash 4 started. But after Ultimate, could we see a completely fresh Direction for the series? Some changes to Ultimate do veer into reboot territory, and could potentially influence this potential reboot.

Personally, I think it could be a very cool idea to remake smash 64, melee, or brawl. They could update the graphics and keep the technic in the games (and get rid of tripping in brawl). I think that they could also redo the move sets for the characters in those games. An updated UI would also be much appreciated, something similar to ultimate but with a twist to represent those games.
Thoughts?

 

[PsychoJosh]

Smash needs an overhaul, so I'm onboard with the idea of remaking it from the ground up.

Veteran characters are still using outdated moves from Smash 64. The game is overly bloated with quantity and the quality of the game suffers for it. We don't really get to see the characters interact, mistakes like Ganondorf having Falcon's moveset are never corrected, and the game hasn't seen any siginificant evolution in 20 years. It still feels like we've basically been playing gradually updated versions of Melee with each iteration.

The characters all need new techniques, and the game needs new mechanics, new modes, new netcode, and a new story. It doesn't just need new characters. Hopefully I gain enough skill in the coming years to be a gamedev that can get on board with the next Smash, but if not, I guess it will never improve.

 

[GothicSlenderman]

I think I'd have to wonder what direction would they take it in with the roster. With Smash now having so many guest characters (A total of 14 out of 79 characters) I think that might the biggest source of discussion. Would they reboot the original concept and make a modern iteration of the "Nintendo Allstar" idea with no guests or would they turn it into a gaming all-stars with primarily guest characters like Project X Zone but with more companies involved.

I think a reboot of the Nintendo Allstar idea could work as some IPs have some strange representation choices. If I was in charge I would make Mario Heroes and Villains like they were separate IPs.

Spoiler: Short ideas

Example: Mario HEROES - Mario, Luigi, Peach, Toad, Paper Mario. Mario VILLAINS - Bowser, Bowser Jr, King Boo, Goomba, Fawful

Make it so that each Pokemon region gets a main rep.
Kanto: Pikachu
Johto: Scizor
Hoenne: Gardevior
Sinnoh: Lucario
Unova: Krookodile
Kalos: Greninja
Alola: Incenaroar
Galar: Rillaboom

Another idea is that what if instead of a reboot they make a new game with the same percentage system. Imagine if they made a Capcom Smash Bros. or a Pokemon Smash Bros. maybe even a SEGA Smash Bros. I could also see them try to make an original fighter instead with characters made just for the game. I mean, the platform fighting genre has gotten big enough where it doesn't need to rely on Smash for relevancy or popularity. We've got games like Rivals of Aether, Indie Pogo, Brawl-Out and Brawhalla. Games that use a similar idea or are at least platform fighters in some way but can stand on there own.

Alternatively I wouldn't mind if Smash had a temporary retirement as a new series took the mantle. Imagine if let's say Sony decided to give Playstation Allstars a second chance but didn't set any weird limitations for the developers and actually help them when they needed it. (which is what happened to the first game. Sony promised to help with getting characters and marketing but drug their feet as the developer Superbot were forced to release a rushed product cause Sony wouldn't do the thing they promised) But Sony isn't the same company they were in 2012. Maybe Namco can use their experience with the Smash series and the Shonen Jump gaming rights to make a full on Shonen Jump platform fighter similar to the one on DS but on home console and was released in the west.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

I'm up for a reboot, and I want one major change... for now.

Only ONE Fighter per series.

 

[UserKev]

Improve after Ultimate? Bruh, Ultimate is amazing but has lackluster gameplay. Yeah, many beloved third party will be missing but you will get used to it because Nintendo's roster is still magical on its own.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

Improve after Ultimate? Bruh, Ultimate is amazing but has lackluster gameplay. Yeah, many beloved third party will be missing but you will get used to it because Nintendo's roster is still magical on its own.

And it could be more magicial if Nintendo look up their entire 40 year video game history and enlist every published title/series as either a fighter, an arena, a weapon/tool, or an assist.

From Sheriff to The Stretchers.

 

[toonito]

i wonder how feasible a Super Smash Bros 3D would be. basically current Smash on a 360 plane with a rotating camera and characters have the ability to move side to side as well as backward and forward. I've been thinking about it and this is probably the next major gameplay change for Smash.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

i wonder how feasible a Super Smash Bros 3D would be. basically current Smash on a 360 plane with a rotating camera and characters have the ability to move side to side as well as backward and forward. I've been thinking about it and this is probably the next major gameplay change for Smash.

That sounds a lot like Shippuden to me, which is....probably not the direction Smash wants to go in. How could a 3D Smash maintain the fast paced gameplay of its current form?

 

[toonito]

That sounds a lot like Shippuden to me, which is....probably not the direction Smash wants to go in. How could a 3D Smash maintain the fast paced gameplay of its current form?

idk i was just thinking besides tech, character art style/model, menu UI and gameplay speed there's not a lot that can change without the fanbase fully rejecting it or halfway accepting it causing the fanbase to fracture even further

going 3D is just a suggestion for people who feel the franchise is stale five games deep. however with 20 million copies sold a reboot may be a case of if it ain't broke why fix it?

 

[Mogisthelioma]

idk i was just thinking besides tech, character art style/model, menu UI and gameplay speed there's not a lot that can change without the fanbase fully rejecting it or halfway accepting it causing the fanbase to fracture even further

going 3D is just a suggestion for people who feel the franchise is stale five games deep. however with 20 million copies sold a reboot may be a case of if it ain't broke why fix it?

Fair enough. I've just seen suggestions for 3D Smash games before, and most of them seem as if they'll devolve into something as campy as Shippuden. That game gives me PTSD.

 

[toonito]

Fair enough. I've just seen suggestions for 3D Smash games before, and most of them seem as if they'll devolve into something as campy as Shippuden. That game gives me PTSD.

the only thing i can think of is to somehow keep the stages the same size as they are now but able to rotate 360

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Will it happen?

Well, anything’s possible. I’d say a 50-50 chance at maximum, even if I feel this supposed “interview” which I can’t find was taken out of context based on what someone said in a similar thread and that if Sakurai hadn’t built off 4, only 1/3 of the roster would be done at that point in time. In other words, development would take longer

now, SHOULD it happen?

...I will answer with a resounding, HELL NO.

Rebooting the series to a massively downsized roster is, in my honest opinion, one of the worst ideas I’ve heard after bringing everyone back in Ultimate. Several of the posts I’ve liked in this thread capture my issues with the concept perfectly.

To sum up the largest issues I have with the idea, for one, a “reboot” involves returning to its roots. Smash has no roots, because it has not strayed from the formula it’s been using for decades. Reboots can also be done for story based games, like JRPGs, or action games (even if some are of... not that great quality. Looking at you, 2013 DmC which was ultimately retconned). Not fighting games.

Another issue I have is the “mechanics overhaul” angle. If you change Smash from a 2D platform fighter to a 3D traditional fighter, can it really be called “Smash” anymore? Drastically changing a character’s moveset completely is also seldom done in fighting games, if ever, and it’s usually met with backlash. I get changing one or two moves, like Ganondorf using his sword in Ultimate, but if you change the entire moveset, people who are used to how a character originally played will be confused and in many cases put off.

then there’s “balancing issues”. Name ONE multiplayer game with more than 20 characters that’s perfectly balanced. It’d be impossible, and yet such games still exist without much issue. Just make sure no one’s insanely broken OR trash against everyone and everything should be fine, I say.

which of course brings me to the roster. Yes, Sakurai said pre-release, “Everyone is here might not happen again.” Might. Not will. It’s akin to him saying every Smash game before Ultimate will be his last and yet here we are. It’s a labor, yes, but a labor of love. He tried to bring Mewtwo, Dr. Mario and Roy back in Brawl but couldn’t due to time constraints, bringing them all back one game later (two of them being DLC). Heck it’s thanks to the fans’ demand he was able to bring even Snake and Pichu back. And then Ultimate became the best selling Smash period. To cut most of them and not even bring them back as DLC later on for the new Smash would be a massive downgrade met with a lot of complaints. I mean, Street Fighter V’s base roster can attest to that, and even once DLC was finished for that game several fan faves are still absent. Plus I feel the characters are the selling point for Smash, it being a crossover and all. To take that away would be to take away its appeal to the demographic it’s obtained now. With regard to third parties, as long as relationships between the third parties remain good (as well as the third party’s internal politics), bringing the third party characters back shouldn’t be an issue. Hell, I’d even like to see Smash break the 100 character barrier. (Tobal 2 doesn’t count, most of the “characters” are actual alts)

ideally I’d prefer an Ultimate Deluxe/Encore with new characters and modes on top of the vanilla version’s roster and DLC, or even that the next smash just still has Everyone is Here but with a new UI and modes. But if cuts do have to happen, it would be best to bring said cuts back as DLC later on. Even then I still think Ultimate leaves a few things to be desired. The music selection is missing a few must have tracks still; there are some inconsistencies in spirit representation; there can be more added to the single player side; more cosmetic stuff for the non-Mii fighters; and perhaps most importantly, the ONLINE. And tbh I don’t think rollback can fix it, it’s something related to the switch itself, I even get lag when using the eshop. If the rumored Switch Pro/Super Switch has better online infrastructure, an Ultimate port could benefit greatly from the enhanced online.

If mainline smash does have to take a break, a spin-off like an RPG, MOBA or even gacha could keep the spirit of smash alive in the meantime.

I guess that about covers how I feel about the issue.

 

[Arthur97]

Honestly, I don't even think they all have to return. Yeah, people will be disappointed, but cuts happened before and licensing can be hard to navigate for some third parties (honestly, a lot of them I wouldn't be sad to see go). Course, who wants to be on Nintendo's bad side these days? If you get the offer, why not take it and play ball? Most of the first parties there isn't much of a reason to cut either due to them being quick and easy, or well liked and unique. Young Link may be one of the single most likely cuts in the whole roster kind of in that middle ground.

Though, probably won't happen, but I'd be fine with them cutting echoes and putting them back in as DLC with the proper care they deserve.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Honestly, I'm less in favor of a "reboot" per se and more in favor of the next game(s) just not being directed by Sakurai. The man's done great for the franchise and all, but it has gotten pretty stale and formulaic IMO and Ultimate pretty much seems like his swan song for his vision of the franchise anyway. Simply put, I don't see how they're gonna convince people to move on from Ultimate unless they change some things since cuts happen (it's a miracle they didn't happen for Ultimate, and the game very clearly had to dial it back on base newcomers to compensate) and it's likely the next game will have much less content, at least at launch. The only other way I can see for them is if they just make the next game an enhanced port of Ultimate a la MK8D, which in my opinion would be the WORST possible outcome - who wants to play the exact same game for another 4-8 years (and pay full price for it again, at that)? In my view, a fresh pair of eyes could be exactly what Smash needs right now, and it wouldn't even necessitate a total overhaul or a genre shift or anything like that; just get someone new at the wheel to [hopefully] look at all the weird, grandfathered-in **** that's managed to stay in Smash over the years (Ganondorf's entire moveset, for one) and make some much-needed changes. I dunno about anyone else, but I would be incredibly hyped to see the next Smash game make drastic changes to characters' movesets, add tech instead of removing it (looking at you, every game since Brawl), and tweak the mechanics to improve the general gamefeel. I don't want to play Ultimate again on the Nintendo P-Switch or whatever, I wanna play something new, and if the next Smash game continues down the path it's going on, I think I'll pass, personally. But if the next Smash game actually endeavors to take the franchise in a different direction and deviate from the established formula, you bet I'll take a chance on it.

 

[Quillion]

I'd like to reiterate that there's no binary between a reboot and a port. They can just recycle the assets from Ultimate and build something new from there. That's how Ultimate itself was made: by recycling most of the assets of Smash 4.

Honestly, I'm less in favor of a "reboot" per se and more in favor of the next game(s) just not being directed by Sakurai. The man's done great for the franchise and all, but it has gotten pretty stale and formulaic IMO

Thank you for saying it. I thought I was the only one who was thinking this (or at least was being vocal about it).

 

[Arthur97]

One way they could potentially improve it is to beef up the single player. It kind of peaked with Brawl and then just kind of whimpered out. Part of that may be due to online making multiplayer with real people more accessible, but still, single player content has been fairly lackluster. For one, actually bringing back the old style classic mode could be nice. They can keep the other variations, but a good old arcade style single player run that is more replayable could be a nice touch, and that's just one thing.

Plus, adding and adding new fighters doesn't seem sustainable. Others have to be cut, and at what point is it not worth adding new ones at the cost of veterans? Sure, new ones can generate more hype, but at the same time, wanting to make each addition a hype machine might actually have been shooting themselves in the foot long term. Now people aren't as satisfied it seems with your typical Nintendo fighter. Even if you don't want it to be a Nintendo celebration, they are most likely cheaper to make. Plus, as big names start dwindling, what do you do?

 

[Pupp135]

Since a “reboot“ usually refers to a roster with many cuts, I think this seems likely since everyone is here is a once in a lifetime opportunity, and drastically cutting the roster was the alternative to what we got. While a huge number of cuts would sting a lot (fingers crossed Ness and Icies stay), but people still play Melee, and I find SSF2 fun despite slightly more than a third of Ultimate’s roster being in (I also like Crusade, which doen’t even have Zelda and Pit).
In terms of an actual reboot, it is unlikely that there will be a drastic way to reinvent the series (think 3D combat or a tradtionsl fighter), and most changes would be multiplayer modes (including online) and stages. While some single player modes are fun, I don’t see them as essential as the multiplayer to the developers.

 

[UserKev]

Fans that will choose to complain over roster cuts will get over themselves eventually. And it'd just be most third party additions people will be butthurt over. Honestly a Smash reboot has Ridley and K Rool for heavy first party fan favorites and realistically new third party additions. It may not sell as much as Ultimate but it'd sell as decently as Smash 64 and Melee.

 

[toonito]

Fans that will choose to complain over roster cuts will get over themselves eventually. And it'd just be most third party additions people will be butthurt over. Honestly a Smash reboot has Ridley and K Rool for heavy first party fan favorites and realistically new third party additions. It may not sell as much as Ultimate but it'd sell as decently as Smash 64 and Melee.

smash 64 sold 5 mil and melee sold 7 mil. I understand a reboot may happen but going from 23 million to around 6 million again in 2 games is a steep drop and would be unacceptable to Nintendo especially if their next system has a similar sales trajectory to the Switch. Smash is one of Nintendo's biggest franchises and I think the franchise has become way too big to be happy with 5-7 million copies sold.

 

[Janx_uwu]

Maybe it won't, but it should be a reboot. I don't say this because I want every 64 vet to have a new moveset (I don't), and I don't say it because the current roster has too much filler (there's really only a couple of additions I actively dislike). I say it because Smash on the whole could use more quality control. Like, having a better All-Star or Classic mode. Or making the song selection and remixes more even between series. Or bringing back Break The Targets. Or having better balancing. Or having better online. If the Smash series just focuses on CONTENT CONTENT CONTENT MORE CONTENT, the Smash team won't have as much time to improve what came before, rather they'll just add onto it.

 

[Arthur97]

I kind of doubt it will go down to Melee levels. Even being slashed in half would be more than that. Still, it's a hard act to follow, and a reboot probably wouldn't do too much to change that. At best a real story mode might help with it, kind of like what the teaser for WoL seemed like it might be before it turned out to be arguably less fun event matches.

As for the third parties, I still think they may have sacrificed the future for the now. Now we have additions like Pyra, Mythra, and Min Min that people maybe would have taken to a bit better had they been base Smash 4 before they veered radically into third parties. Remember how Sonic just coming back was a big enough deal that he got a mini trailer for 4? They made them the norm rather than the exceptions at least in DLC, and that seems to make the so called fans harder to please.

Honestly, I'm not sure how they can escape this hole they've dug themselves into. Maybe in that sense a reboot is what they would need, but if they just fully commit to the gaming angle, would it really fix anything? How feasible would an even more third party dependent Smash be? Remember, they have to secure rights for each third party.

 

[AZ_Spellbound]

Next smash will be a 2d fighter

 

[meleebrawler]

Honestly, I'm less in favor of a "reboot" per se and more in favor of the next game(s) just not being directed by Sakurai. The man's done great for the franchise and all, but it has gotten pretty stale and formulaic IMO and Ultimate pretty much seems like his swan song for his vision of the franchise anyway. Simply put, I don't see how they're gonna convince people to move on from Ultimate unless they change some things since cuts happen (it's a miracle they didn't happen for Ultimate, and the game very clearly had to dial it back on base newcomers to compensate) and it's likely the next game will have much less content, at least at launch. The only other way I can see for them is if they just make the next game an enhanced port of Ultimate a la MK8D, which in my opinion would be the WORST possible outcome - who wants to play the exact same game for another 4-8 years (and pay full price for it again, at that)? In my view, a fresh pair of eyes could be exactly what Smash needs right now, and it wouldn't even necessitate a total overhaul or a genre shift or anything like that; just get someone new at the wheel to [hopefully] look at all the weird, grandfathered-in **** that's managed to stay in Smash over the years (Ganondorf's entire moveset, for one) and make some much-needed changes. I dunno about anyone else, but I would be incredibly hyped to see the next Smash game make drastic changes to characters' movesets, add tech instead of removing it (looking at you, every game since Brawl), and tweak the mechanics to improve the general gamefeel. I don't want to play Ultimate again on the Nintendo P-Switch or whatever, I wanna play something new, and if the next Smash game continues down the path it's going on, I think I'll pass, personally. But if the next Smash game actually endeavors to take the franchise in a different direction and deviate from the established formula, you bet I'll take a chance on it.

Street Fighter 2 players were pretty happy playing that instead of 3 until Third Strike came and players actually bothered to look at newcomers instead of mourning their lost favourites. Then they kept playing it regardless.

Multiplayer games are funny like that. If the newest entry isn't well-liked, that just means the previous one keeps it playerbase fully active for a while longer.

Maybe it won't, but it should be a reboot. I don't say this because I want every 64 vet to have a new moveset (I don't), and I don't say it because the current roster has too much filler (there's really only a couple of additions I actively dislike). I say it because Smash on the whole could use more quality control. Like, having a better All-Star or Classic mode. Or making the song selection and remixes more even between series. Or bringing back Break The Targets. Or having better balancing. Or having better online. If the Smash series just focuses on CONTENT CONTENT CONTENT MORE CONTENT, the Smash team won't have as much time to improve what came before, rather they'll just add onto it.

- Answer me this honestly; how many times did you actually play old Classic or All-Star modes after you got everything you could unlock from them? The brevity of what we have in Ultimate, if anything, makes it more appealing to replay them if you like going for high scores.

- Reality kind of makes even amounts of music remixes across series a tall order. Some just plain don't have as many songs to begin with. Others, by virtue of being modern are harder to remix in a meaningful way. Then of course there's possible licensing issues.

- Ultimate's balancing is considered better than all previous entries despite having the biggest roster, as we can see with far more diverse tourney results.

 

[Janx_uwu]

- Answer me this honestly; how many times did you actually play old Classic or All-Star modes after you got everything you could unlock from them? The brevity of what we have in Ultimate, if anything, makes it more appealing to replay them if you like going for high scores.

Dozens. That’s what I did as someone who loved Smash but had literally no one to play it with. I found them really fun. Classic mode was fun and it’s hard for me to really explain why, but I definitely spent more time with all-star mode-I loved being able to fight everyone in order of debut before having a small rest area with soothing music and health items to refresh. By far though, my favorite single player mode was Smash Run-different every time, tons of opportunity to learn and improve, fast-paced and fun, it’s almost everything I could ask for in a smash mode. Ultimate’s classic mode was super fun on the first time for each character, don’t get me wrong dude. But replaying them is super boring as there’s no variation. I’ve tried getting high scores, but given the random nature of Smash with items, it’s really difficult to get far without being frustrated to infinity by a CPU who just happened to stumble upon a game-winning item when I had the upper hand. All-Star mode is just 100-man melee but with the fighters in order of release-all at once-and Smash Run is nowhere to be seen.

Reality kind of makes even amounts of music remixes across series a tall order. Some just plain don't have as many songs to begin with. Others, by virtue of being modern are harder to remix in a meaningful way. Then of course there's possible licensing issues.

I personally find it annoying that Sonic hasn’t had a single remix since Brawl, while Street Fighter or Mega Man (who already got lots of remixes in Sm4sh) got plenty more this time around. Plus, sometimes the unbalance in the music is just blatantly obvious-like how SNK has 100+ songs iirc, but Final Fantasy had two upon release. When Sephiroth came around, we got more which is awesome, but it still is a bit disappointing that they’re all from 7, despite there being incredible music from that series across the board. I wouldn’t be holding these things over Nintendo’s head so much if they didn’t claim this was a museum of video game music history.

Ultimate's balancing is considered better than all previous entries despite having the biggest roster, as we can see with far more diverse tourney results.

Better than the past hardly equals good. Characters like Little Mac and Doctor Mario are simply unviable and not well designed for competitive play, and characters like Pikachu or Peach have too many strengths and not enough weaknesses. I wouldn’t have as much of a problem if they weren’t buffing and nerfing the wrong moves and characters. I don’t think that’s a difficult ask given Ultimate is a fighting game, which are usually competitive.

 

[Arthur97]

I mean, look at the SWT ongoing right now. How many Peach or Pikachus do you see compared to the massive roster? Even a K. Rool managed to qualify. Yeah, they can tune it up a bit more, but balance isn't really something you can honestly fault Ultimate for considering it has the best balance in the series with the biggest roster. That's nothing to sneeze at. It's actually rather impressive. And then there are those which are hard to balance for casual and competitive play. Given their monumental task, I think they did rather well. At least they tend to stray from kneejerk reactions that you may get if fans were balancing it.

The single player offerings I still find kind of disappointing. Plus, Wii U's Classic hardly even qualified as "Classic". If anything, it should have had a different name. Still, Break the Targets and Board the Platforms could be fun diversions, especially for younger players who pump a bit more imagination into these things. But to really make it shine, they probably need a real story mode. One preferably not written by Sakurai.

 

[meleebrawler]

Dozens. That’s what I did as someone who loved Smash but had literally no one to play it with. I found them really fun. Classic mode was fun and it’s hard for me to really explain why, but I definitely spent more time with all-star mode-I loved being able to fight everyone in order of debut before having a small rest area with soothing music and health items to refresh. By far though, my favorite single player mode was Smash Run-different every time, tons of opportunity to learn and improve, fast-paced and fun, it’s almost everything I could ask for in a smash mode. Ultimate’s classic mode was super fun on the first time for each character, don’t get me wrong dude. But replaying them is super boring as there’s no variation. I’ve tried getting high scores, but given the random nature of Smash with items, it’s really difficult to get far without being frustrated to infinity by a CPU who just happened to stumble upon a game-winning item when I had the upper hand. All-Star mode is just 100-man melee but with the fighters in order of release-all at once-and Smash Run is nowhere to be seen.

I personally find it annoying that Sonic hasn’t had a single remix since Brawl, while Street Fighter or Mega Man (who already got lots of remixes in Sm4sh) got plenty more this time around. Plus, sometimes the unbalance in the music is just blatantly obvious-like how SNK has 100+ songs iirc, but Final Fantasy had two upon release. When Sephiroth came around, we got more which is awesome, but it still is a bit disappointing that they’re all from 7, despite there being incredible music from that series across the board. I wouldn’t be holding these things over Nintendo’s head so much if they didn’t claim this was a museum of video game music history.

Better than the past hardly equals good. Characters like Little Mac and Doctor Mario are simply unviable and not well designed for competitive play, and characters like Pikachu or Peach have too many strengths and not enough weaknesses. I wouldn’t have as much of a problem if they weren’t buffing and nerfing the wrong moves and characters. I don’t think that’s a difficult ask given Ultimate is a fighting game, which are usually competitive.

You'd be running into just as much item randomness shenanigans in older Classic modes, and since clearing them without losing a life is an important part of high score runs, the fact that they were twice as long would really grate on you restarting each time. Only the old CPUs often being dumb and exploitable mitigates that. Interesting you say playing these only when you had no one else around, because I wonder, if online play actually existed back then, would you have rather been playing that instead?

A younger me did enjoy playing those modes over and over. But I was also much more oblivious to repetition and had more time to kill.

 

[UserKev]

smash 64 sold 5 mil and melee sold 7 mil. I understand a reboot may happen but going from 23 million to around 6 million again in 2 games is a steep drop and would be unacceptable to Nintendo especially if their next system has a similar sales trajectory to the Switch. Smash is one of Nintendo's biggest franchises and I think the franchise has become way too big to be happy with 5-7 million copies sold.

But that's the point. Smash has gotten so big that it'd still sell well. People will get over their missing third party favorites and eventually buy the game either way because Smash is just one of the most perfect games for casuals and has incredibly established its self. Not just third party additions. A Smash reboot alone will at least sell 20 million.

Honestly, the ladder is a copout.

 

[meleebrawler]

But that's the point. Smash has gotten so big that it'd still sell well. People will get over their missing third party favorites and eventually buy the game either way because Smash is just one of the most perfect games for casuals and has incredibly established its self. Not just third party additions. A Smash reboot alone will at least sell 20 million.

Honestly, the ladder is a copout.

As a casual player, tell me why I should play a port or remake of Melee when Ultimate has nearly everything the former has, and then some. 20 million doesn't seem like a given in this scenario.

 

[UserKev]

As a casual player, tell me why I should play a port or remake of Melee when Ultimate has nearly everything the former has, and then some. 20 million doesn't seem like a given in this scenario.

Well, if you've already been a fan of Smash since 64 or Melee, your bound to come back to it. A Smash reboot won't be anything like Melee. It'd probably be like Brawl as Sonic and Snake are near locks as starter third parties that kicks off the chain.

 

[meleebrawler]

Well, if you've already been a fan of Smash since 64 or Melee, your bound to come back to it. A Smash reboot won't be anything like Melee. It'd probably be like Brawl as Sonic and Snake are near locks as starter third parties that kicks off the chain.

As a salesman I don't want my games to only appeal to those who have been playing a long time. They just get older and harder to please for the most part.

 

[UserKev]

As a salesman I don't want my games to only appeal to those who have been playing a long time. They just get older and harder to please for the most part.

The idea of a Smash reboot is something to fear, but regardless of how we feel, a Smash reboot would still be interesting. Do you expect Ultimate to last forever? Logically, Smash trying to reset its self is one of the most healthy options, really.

 

[RileyXY1]

The idea of a Smash reboot is something to fear, but regardless of how we feel, a Smash reboot would still be interesting. Do you expect Ultimate to last forever? Logically, Smash trying to reset its self is one of the most healthy options, really.

Yeah. I think that it's not in their best interests to just keep porting Ultimate forever.

 

[Arthur97]

Well, might depend on if they are ports or enhanced ports.

 

[volbound1700]

Game Modes is the key, especially Single Player. I thought cutting the roster may work but after reading Rie Sonomura 's post, I would agree that downsizing the roster significantly would be a major mistake. Nintendo has kind of hit the wall with Ultimate. If you pulled out a Melee-size roster, people would not buy it and the hype would not be there. They have to keep the large roster. Could they cut some clones and smaller tier characters? Yes.

Heck, even some of the major third-parties are probably going to become staples like Sonic, Pacman, Cloud, etc.

 

[UserKev]

Heck, even some of the major third-parties are probably going to become staples like Sonic, Pacman, Cloud, etc.

Smash won't be Smash anymore if they become staples. I know this may sound contradictive, but hear me out. You hearing the saying "I don't want to play Melee 2.0 again, etc" No one wants to play Ultimate 2.0 for the next 20 years. Every Smash game needs to be unique and different from each instalment. We all will detest Ultimate if he happen, I don't doubt it in the slightest.