After Ultimate, will the next Smash be a complete reboot?

TheMisterManGuy

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#1
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate is shaping up to be Sakurai's Ultimate vision for Smash Bros. Every character in series history, plus new ones, new gameplay tweaks additions for casual and competitive play, more than 100 stages, and 28 hours worth of music. It really does feel like this was what Smash Bros. was envisioned to be. But, what comes next? With Sakurai putting all his effort into making the Ultimate version of this legendary series, where does Smash go from here?

Specifically, we'll we be seeing the game after be a completely fresh start? That being a smaller first-party exclusive roster, heavily redone gameplay, and generally being a reboot of sorts. Sakurai has said he's willing to make more Smash games if there's demand, but during Ultimate's development, he pondered doing a BotW style reboot of the series, but felt it'd be faster to simply improve on and refine what Smash 4 started. But after Ultimate, could we see a completely fresh Direction for the series? Some changes to Ultimate do veer into reboot territory, and could potentially influence this potential reboot.
 

Captain Shades

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#5
A reboot would be cool, I’ve actually thought about it for a while.

What if the Smash Team goes back to the drawing board and brings back a Wii U mechanic in a new way, reimagining all characters. My idea would be for the Smash Team to reintroduce custom moves and make them a central mechanic.

They could start with the original 12 and just build multiple move sets, maybe 8, around them that represent the various games and or mechanics. Here I’ll do an example.

Mario’s Custom bases

1) Mario 3D Moveset (Sunshine + 64 and 64 DS)
2) Mario Odessey Moveset
3) Classic Mario Moveset (Super Mario Bros 1-3)
4) Mario Party Moveset
5) New Super Mario Moveset (New Super Mario Bros franchise)
6) Mario Galaxy Moveset (Mario Galaxy 1+2)
7) Mario Sports Moveset
8) Mario RPG Moveset (Super Mario RPG + Mario & Luigi franchise)
 

TheMisterManGuy

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#6
I think if the Smash Bros. series is going to be rebooted, Sakurai will probably take a step back, serving as Producer rather than Director, while a new Director creates their own unique take on the formula. It'd also be interesting to see a Super Smash Bros. game developed in-house at Nintendo EPD themselves. Prior games were developed by various companies. HAL Laboratory for the first two, an ad-hoc team for Brawl, and Bandai Namco for Smash 4 and Ultimate. It'd be interesting to see Super Smash Bros. developed by Nintendo internally, they already have experience with Fighting games in the form of ARMS.
 

lucasla

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#7
I dont know... I dont think a Nintendo console can exist without Smash, and imagining 10 years from now in their next console... well.. maybe they add voice chat
xD
 

farvin111

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#8
I used to think they couldn't top Smash 4, but then Ultimate happened. Now, I really can't see how they can top Ultimate without rebooting it. I really wonder what it'll be like...
 
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#9
I been thinking about it while it might be an idea, I want Smash to break 100 Characters on the roster

Oh god a 100 amiibos
 
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Buzzwole

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#10
I'd assume we'll get a reboot next, yes. There's absolutely nowhere to go from here unless they want to just keep building off of the same base game from here on out.

I think whatever comes next will be a reboot, rebuilt from the ground up, and I don't think Sakurai will be in charge.
This game feels like a final hoorah for Sakurai, which is why he's going all out with pleasing fans and packing as much stuff into it as he can.
 
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#11
I'd assume we'll get a reboot next, yes. There's absolutely nowhere to go from here unless they want to just keep building off of the same base game from here on out.

I think whatever comes next will be a reboot, rebuilt from the ground up, and I don't think Sakurai will be in charge.
This game feels like a final hoorah for Sakurai, which is why he's going all out with pleasing fans and packing as much stuff into it as he can.

I think it's more like corporate Nintendo breathing down his neck to make an "all-out" Smash game for their supposedly best-selling console ever (or one of). I doubt this is a labor of love for him.
 

Oddball

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#13
People throw the word reboot around too much these days.

It's not like there's anything there to reboot. It's a fighting game with no real story, no continuity, and the only connections to the past games being how the characters play ... and that still changes from game to game.

If you make a new Smash bros and it only has 13 characters and they all have different moves you'd still be hard pressed to not just call it another sequel. Do people call Zelda 2 a reboot?
 

Fell God

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#14
I'm worried the next game would be unable to one-up Ultimate, I don't think you can do any better than "everyone is here" and I think Sakurai knows it too. You can't foreseeably top this one.
 

Quillion

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#15
I'm worried the next game would be unable to one-up Ultimate, I don't think you can do any better than "everyone is here" and I think Sakurai knows it too. You can't foreseeably top this one.
Of course they can! They just need to continuously recycle the models and animations over and over and over again and disregard it looking out of place in 8640p graphics. That would save the resources needed for them to redo the old characters and focus more on making the new ones.

But yes, the best way to "top" Ultimate would be to reboot the series and freshen up old characters entirely.
 

soviet prince

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#16
they could make it from the ground up to be this game and more if there had double the time to do it. Lesser characters would only work if smash disappeared for 2 consoles
 

lucasla

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#17
The core gameplay can be maintained, with improvements and new characters and stages of course, and they can also create new game modes and campaigns. And depending on how they handle the online system of this game, if it's just a simple system like the WiiU game, there's already something to do better in a sequel. I hope to see a full rank system on this game, on pair with any recent competitive game like LoL, Overwatch and others, if not.. well, I will still wait for it in 2030.
 

Mic_128

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#18
If you make a new Smash bros and it only has 13 characters and they all have different moves you'd still be hard pressed to not just call it another sequel.
You'd also be hard pressed to pull that off. The amount of backlash would be insane, going from Ultimate's content to about a tenth of the cast? Can't see reviews being particularly favourable. Hell, the amount of complaints when Ice climbers or Wolf got dropped was bad enough...
 

Oddball

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#19
You'd also be hard pressed to pull that off. The amount of backlash would be insane, going from Ultimate's content to about a tenth of the cast? Can't see reviews being particularly favourable. Hell, the amount of complaints when Ice climbers or Wolf got dropped was bad enough...
Yeah, and I don't expect them to go that far either. It was just an extreme example to make a point.
 
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#21
I would be in favor of a reboot. I think there are way too many people who are entitled and ungrateful. Having 100+ characters is great for a casual setting. In a competitive setting, I don't see it to be beneficial.

  1. Characters don't necessarily maintain their high tier status throughout the series. Fox is an example of this. Those who do, it might be left up to coincidence. See Marth.
  2. Patches can solve certain problems, but not all problems. I'm not certain where people go to express their displeasure for the developers to correct errors.
  3. Too many characters leads to potential unviability of most characters. (Rage seems to have countered this in some way, but it also seems some benefit more than others.) Lack of diversity leads to potential viewership loss.
 
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Oddball

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#22
If they are going to reboot it, I want more more game before the reboot. Let the series hit the landmark 100 character spot. I think it deserves it.

THEN next game reboot.

My formula for a reboot would be something like this.
Your vetrans ... completlery redo at least a third of whoever you bring back. New specials, new fighting style, new looks ...
Whatever your number of characters is, ten of them need to be NEW characters. If that means relying on new released characters that haven't "earned" their spot yet or scraping the bottom of the barrel for old retros do it. You're starting over, do something new.
 

BonafideFella

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#24
I don't know if I want a reboot. What would it even be? A Melee-size roster with Ultimate's mechanics? Who wants that?
And even if it's an excuse to redo old veterans, the developers can do that anyways so it's not a huge reason to do a reboot.
 

staindgrey

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#25
I'd imagine the next step after Ultimate would be a revision of Ultimate with more stuff. But since revisions only work for so long, then they'd reboot it
In a way, though, isn't Ultimate already a revision of Wii U/3DS? They're working directly with the previous engine and assets to spend more time adding more stuff.

In my mind, the next Smash will be more akin to Melee or Brawl, in that they build it from the ground up on a new engine, offering something new in terms of gameplay, but smaller in terms of characters and total fan service. A dramatically different approach to it as a fighting game might be the shakeup the series needs after 4-6 years of Smash Ultimate, which, in extension, is kind of a decade of this specific style of Smash. (I know that there are significant differences between Smash4 and Ult., but really, these are the two most similar sequels in the series by a long shot.)
 

Koopaul

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#26
I don't think some of you understand what a reboot means. It means the entire concept of Smash and how it works will be different.

It won't just be the next Smash but with less characters, it will be something completely different. Like for example instead of the game being played on a 2D plane, it will be a 3D isometric style. Now you can Smash players left, right, up, down, AND forward and back.

How will that work? I don't know. This was just something I thought of off the top of my head to give you an example of how drastically they will need to change Smash at its core. Because if they don't people will be pissed to be getting a smaller roster but a relatively similar Smash Bros. It HAS to be something brand new.

In fact they might have to change the name of the series to Super Clash Bros. or something.
 
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#27
In a way, though, isn't Ultimate already a revision of Wii U/3DS? They're working directly with the previous engine and assets to spend more time adding more stuff.
Yes but the concept changed, like Wii U/3DS had console connectivity as its main point while Ultimate's main point is the "everyone is here" stuff. I said a revision as in a "SSB Ultimate Deluxe" thing
 
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staindgrey

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#28
Yes but the concept changed, like Wii U/3DS had console connectivity as its main point while Ultimate's main point is the "everyone is here" stuff. I said a revision as in a "SSB Ultimate Deluxe" thing
I'm aware of the difference you were implying. I'm saying that's still getting derivative if it's a slight upgrade to a more involved upgrade.

Also, I don't think console connectivity was its main point? Using the 3DS as a game controller was where the connectivity ended. The "main point" was just making a new smash game that tried to bridge the gap between Melee and Brawl. Ultimate is that concept, on the same engine and with many of the same assets, only bigger and better.

Again, not saying they're the same game at all. Ultimate is a major upgrade. But it's still technically an upgrade. You're going to get diminishing returns if you do an "Ultimate Again" with "everyone is still here but also here's Geno and Waluigi and the chick from ARMS". Part of what gives Smash its immense appeal are the major changes and long wait times between sequels. That would be considerably hurt if they took a Blazblue or Street Fighter type of approach and tried to add an arcade version or a super version after already making a game more similar to its predecessor than any of the others before it.
 

soviet prince

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#29
I don't think some of you understand what a reboot means. It means the entire concept of Smash and how it works will be different.

It won't just be the next Smash but with less characters, it will be something completely different. Like for example instead of the game being played on a 2D plane, it will be a 3D isometric style. Now you can Smash players left, right, up, down, AND forward and back.

How will that work? I don't know. This was just something I thought of off the top of my head to give you an example of how drastically they will need to change Smash at its core. Because if they don't people will be pissed to be getting a smaller roster but a relatively similar Smash Bros. It HAS to be something brand new.

In fact they might have to change the name of the series to Super Clash Bros. or something.
if they do that then it really wont be smash bros anymore
 

Sprintle

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#30
I'm sure there will be a sixth Smash eventually. Not sure how long the Switch's lifespan will be, but Smash is a system seller and I'm sure Nintendo will make one for their next console.

That being said, I'm not sure how a reboot would fare with people. After the massive roster of Ultimate, it seems like anything less would be a disappointment. On the other hand, having an even bigger roster would be a balancing nightmare, more so than it is now. I'd personally be in favor of a more stripped down Smash (roster-wise) in exchange for more in-depth mechanics, reworking of the characters, better balance, etc. but there's also the issue of someone's favorite character not making it in. I think some disappointment is inevitable with a reboot.
 

Quillion

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#31
I don't think some of you understand what a reboot means. It means the entire concept of Smash and how it works will be different.

It won't just be the next Smash but with less characters, it will be something completely different. Like for example instead of the game being played on a 2D plane, it will be a 3D isometric style. Now you can Smash players left, right, up, down, AND forward and back.

How will that work? I don't know. This was just something I thought of off the top of my head to give you an example of how drastically they will need to change Smash at its core. Because if they don't people will be pissed to be getting a smaller roster but a relatively similar Smash Bros. It HAS to be something brand new.

In fact they might have to change the name of the series to Super Clash Bros. or something.
Hey, some people just want the characters to be rebooted, not the entire game.

A lot of people, me included, are starting to see age show on most of the characters' gameplay designs. Mario is still entirely based around SM64, has the Cape and FLUDD tacked on, and won't gain cool new tools like Cappy. Link is eternally stuck with the bow, boomerang, and bombs. Samus only has projectile specials when Mega Man and Mii Gunner have projectile normals. Ganondorf is still just a Falcon clone when the reasons for such aren't valid anymore. The Star Fox characters all have the same specials when Star Fox Assault already provided cool new things to use as different specials. Zelda only used her Light Bow as a Final Smash, then lost it entirely for Ultimate. Sheik is still a thing.

I'm pretty sure most people just want to see old characters get freshened up and want the changes to stop there.
 

Koopaul

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#32
if they do that then it really wont be smash bros anymore
Well it's like how Nintendo eventually went from Super Mario World to Super Mario 64. Very different games, with different goals and a completely new way to play Mario. But it was still called "Super Mario".

Why? Because it was still about Mario jumping around, collecting coins, hoping on Goombas, etc. But now it was done in a completely different way from the 2D platformers. So would a radically different Smash still be Smash? That depends on your perspective. But I'm going to say that as long as it keeps it's core theme the same about Nintendo characters blasting each other off a stage then it could still be considered Smash.

Hey, some people just want the characters to be rebooted, not the entire game.

I'm pretty sure most people just want to see old characters get freshened up and want the changes to stop there.
Yeah but which characters will get rebooted and which characters will just get cut? They can't reboot 70+ characters. That's insane. We'll be stuck in the same situation we are in now, where people will miss playing as a character they knew and loved, or be pissed that their character was cut. Or they will hate the new changes that they made to their main.

No. The only way this works is if it's a completely different kind of Smash. Then you can change the characters however you want because the new game will not be suited for how the old characters used to play. And then you can "cut" whoever you want because it won't be cutting characters at all. You'll be remaking things from the ground up.

Basically the only thing Smash can do is what Mario did. Go from Super Mario World to Super Mario 64 and change the formula of the series.
 
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#33
Super Smash Bros: Ultimate might be the series' equivalent to Infinity War, in that for many fighters, this is going to be their last Smash.

The series has had a lot of fluff characters over the years, and if Sakurai actually leaves after Ultimate, a lot of those fluff characters are definitely going to go away permanently.

...

rip :132:
2018-2018
"his sacrifice will not be in vain"



 
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#34
Personally, I hope not. While I expect some cuts, I hope the game isn't that much of a downgrade. I know things can only get so bit, but making the content smaller in any capacity will be nothing but a major disappointment no matter how much they refine the gameplay (which is great as it is and doesn't really need changing).
 
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#35
Sakurai said that the next smash would have a smaller roster. I think they'll cut most of the characters people don't care about as much as others, balance out the measurements of representation, completely reshape the stage collection, and maybe have some new game modes.
 

Next Door Dog

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#36
Are we speculating a reboot because it's that point in the series to do so, or because Sakurai mentioned something akin to a reboot?

I think if Sakurai is directing the next game, it'll be a reboot. But the million dollar question is what he would have in mind. Some people say it'd just be a rework of older veterans' movesets, but it could be something even more drastic. Maybe Sakurai would not want the series to be confined to the rules it has had since 64. Maybe that means a 3D game, or something as different. I've always thought it would be interesting if there were more emphasis on analog controls, as in more precision in angled attacks or momentum of an attack. Even something like diagonal/more quarter-circle special moves could be a big deal.

If Sakurai isn't directing the next game, I don't think it'll be much of a reboot. Sure, a number of characters would still get cut, but Nintendo isn't going to break one of their best money-printing machines. They'd probably play it safe, though maybe the pressure to make something contesting of Sakurai's vision with his absence as director would lead to them making something more risky.

Personally, I'd rather they just support Ultimate for as long as they can. Maybe with a few years of DLC they could make that 100 character count the real deal.
 
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#37
Sakurai mentioned that the next smash (Smash 6 confirmed) would have a smaller roster. I can only assume that means completely turning over the way the roster is organized, which may also simply include a re-imagining of smash in general, since the roster is the most iconic part.
 

soviet prince

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#39
devils advocate

he was talking about this game when considering a reboot, he will change his mind by them he always does :p
 
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