Afraid of 1.0.6

[PraiseTheSquid]

I am new to this site so please forgive me if I go against any normatives of the site.

I just wanted to share my prediction for patch 1.0.6

As a Ness main, playing against others completely promises me to hear "what is good with that back throw?" "Why does that back throw kill?" "Oh no the back throw at 80% is coming" etc

Maybe it's just me but that throw is so controversial I wouldn't be surprised if it got patched in the next update that is supposed to "tweak character balances"
What do you guys think about the fate of Ness in the next patch?

 

[Yink]

Welcome to the Ness board, @ PraiseTheSquid !

That's fine that you wanted to share your predictions. In fact, I would like this to be a general thread for predicting what could be nerfed or buffed for him as a character.

I'd say the thing that has the biggest chance of being nerfed is his back throw, so you're on the right track. A nice buff though might be not letting Ness go into free fall after PKT doesn't hit him (much like how you can now use PKFL over ledges and he can jump out of it).

Thoughts, everyone?

 

[Funen1]

Ness having strong throws, particularly his B-throw, has been a staple of his moveset since the very beginning of Smash, and iirc is something Sakurai thought would fit well with psychic characters in general (Lucas and Mewtwo have them as well). Interestingly, Ness' B-throw in Smash 4 actually kills a bit later than it did in recent games - it's still really strong, but it feels much more on par with other kill moves in that sense. However, from what I've seen it doesn't seem that controversial in the wider community, especially given the flak other top-tier characters and certain custom specials currently receive, and I don't believe that it'll be heavily nerfed, if at all, just because Ness is suddenly good overall for the first time in the history of Smash. It's a good tool of his, but he has many other good ones as well and it doesn't come close to dominating the metagame to the point that the creators need to take drastic action about it or anything.

As for other things that might be changed, I honestly don't know. I would like to see moves like D-tilt and D-air get improvements if only to ensure he doesn't have any "useless" moves left over (not counting customs), but they don't seem to be that high priority. Maybe his aerials will get toned down a bit to lessen the impact of his aerial and throw combo games, which are two of his strengths. I can understand where you're coming from, I'm a big fan of Ness and I would really like to see him remain good in this game since he's so fun to play as well. But when dealing with something emotionally-based like this, I have to take a step back and realize this is completely beyond my control - whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen. So I'm not really worried about what might go "wrong" with the update. I'll see what the changes are and learn them, just like I've learned everything else I know about the current iteration of the game.

 

[Earthbound360]

There are some things I'm fairly certain won't be changed, and some things I'm worried will be.

For one, I don't think Ness' bthrow is going anywhere. It's supposed to be the strongest throw in the game. It's been that way since the beginning.
Additionally, Ness' recovery isn't getting buffed. Nintendo knows it's gimpable, they want it that way.

If anything will be nerfed, I fear it'll be uair.

But overall, I think Ness should be safe this round. He's not even close to being broken, and he's not even A tier in Japan. There are a lot of characters that need fixing before him.

 

[XCounter]

Ness has had the strongest back throw in the game since Melee, and if I recall correctly he was only second to DK in SSB64. It seems people are only starting to recognise that in this game because Ness is actually good.

I don't think Ness should have any changes in 1.0.6, honestly. He's not really got any insanely powerful tools that need to be toned down. There are many other characters that need to be changed for better and for worse before the balancing team should even think about changing Ness.

If anything, make his dair better.

 

[S.P.A.D.]

I'm actually more worried about Samus getting a nerf than Ness for some reason. Unsure why I feel that way. I'd have to say I agree with generally everyone else with the exception of maybe Nair getting touched a little. I feel everything else is, in the most part, safe.

 

['Nanas]

Ness' double PKT tech may get patched but maybe not since PKT isn't the greatest recovery

 

[XCounter]

Ness' double PKT tech may get patched but maybe not since PKT isn't the greatest recovery

I don't see why it would. The game got patched in November and it stayed put, so it seems like it's an intentional addition to the game.

 

[Tikao]

Ness might be nerfed, even if he doesn't deserve it
i never realy liked the idea of balance patches in ssb

 

[rosetta_stoned]

Ness' double PKT tech may get patched but maybe not since PKT isn't the greatest recovery

I hope they actually improve this and make the left wall of the stage respond the same way the right does. I never go for the double if im knocked off the left side.

 

[PraiseTheSquid]

I hope they actually improve this and make the left wall of the stage respond the same way the right does. I never go for the double if im knocked off the left side.

Omfg...I thought I was the only one who suffered this problem!!!!!!
I practiced this for hours on the left side and I thought maybe I was just stupid or something.

 

[PraiseTheSquid]

You all reassured me that my baby Ness won't be nerfed XD

 

[Earthbound360]

Ness' double PKT tech may get patched but maybe not since PKT isn't the greatest recovery

I very highly doubt they'd do this. It's pretty clear that it was an intentional addition from Brawl.

If anything, they'll possibly buff that so it's not as buggy on the left wall.

 

[Uffe]

I'm actually more worried about Samus getting a nerf than Ness for some reason. Unsure why I feel that way. I'd have to say I agree with generally everyone else with the exception of maybe Nair getting touched a little. I feel everything else is, in the most part, safe.

If anything, Samus deserves a major buff. She can manage, but she's not that great against a lot of fast characters in this game and she's not really able to escape far enough to use her projectile against them.

Regarding Ness' b-throw, I also fear that it'll get nerfed. People are saying his b-throw has been this way since the first Smash game, but keep in mind that Ness' f-throw was also this good in the first Smash game and was greatly nerfed since. I think his PKT2 and PKFl deserve a buff. It might sound greedy, but because those attacks are hard to land, your opponent surviving after getting hit by it makes these attacks seem useless to use.

 

[epic11]

Robin, Mewtwo, Lucas have strong backthrows as well and since Ness is easy to juggle off the stage and keep edgeguarding him out they just have to be careful they dont overdo it or they get backthrowed for being too greedy. I think they will most likely nerf Sonic, Diddy and Yoshi and buff the sword characters in general.

 

[Noa.]

In the next patch it's more likely that Ness will receive a nerf than a buff. If he does receive a nerf I think it'll be incredibly small and not too impactful. Ness has not been in the spotlight for a while. I expect Nintendo to balance based on the Japanese tier list and results, as well as the biggest North American events. Ness is not being featured in either. He also got nerfed in the first balance patch, and it really didn't affect him.

 

[EarthBoundEnigma]

Mewtwo's upthrow was one of the best in the game. I can't wait to get to see it again. You just reminded me.

 

[ZeldaMaster]

I just hope Marth/Lucina and Falco get huge buffs

 

[PraiseTheSquid]

Mewtwo's upthrow was one of the best in the game. I can't wait to get to see it again. You just reminded me.

Omg you just reminded me Mewtwo has that

 

[PraiseTheSquid]

Robin, Mewtwo, Lucas have strong backthrows as well and since Ness is easy to juggle off the stage and keep edgeguarding him out they just have to be careful they dont overdo it or they get backthrowed for being too greedy. I think they will most likely nerf Sonic, Diddy and Yoshi and buff the sword characters in general.

If you couldn't already tell by my picture, I will be very upset for Yoshi's nerf XD

 

[epic11]

If you couldn't already tell by my picture, I will be very upset for Yoshi's nerf XD

Oh i'm sorry XD but his airials combined with his airspeed almost make him a flawless character. Not to mention his jab to upsmash. Thats why i think he will be nerfed. Sonic for being a unpunishable fast character with killing grabs and no weak spots unless you are just really good at reading and being patient. And diddy for being OU at Apex and can kill under 100% without any problems. Tbh i hope they will nerf sonic over diddy kong lolz.

 

[Uffe]

If you couldn't already tell by my picture, I will be very upset for Yoshi's nerf XD

I don't think Yoshi deserves any sort of nerf, nor do I think he needs any buffs. I feel like he, as well as Bowser, deserve to be where they're currently at as far as strengths and weaknesses go. They've been pretty bad since day one, so seeing a new, viable version of them now, that's awesome. I don't see many people use them, though. Still, I think they're pretty good and should stay the way they are unless their is something game breaking.

 

[JayWon]

I don't think his Back throw should/will get nerfed; it's his signature move! But I think his aerials' damage outputs need to tone down (specifically N-air, B-air, U-air). Also maybe if his U-air kills 15% later.

For comparison purposes:

Ness:
N-air 7-11%
F-air 1%, 1%, 4%
B-air 8-15%
U-air 13%
D-air 10-12%

Ike:
N-air 9% (clean), 6% (late)
F-air 12%
B-air 14%
U-air 11%
D-air 15%

Charizard:
N-air 10% (flame), 7% (tail)
F-air 11% (early, clean arm), 12% (clean tip)
B-air 10% (body), 13% (tail), 15% (flame)
U-air 13%
D-air 14% (clean), 8% (late)

Donkey Kong
N-air 11% (clean), 8% (late)
F-air 16%, 15% (sweetspot), 13% (sourspot)
B-air 13% (clean), 8% (late)
U-air 13%
D-air 16% (sweetspot) 13% (sourspot)

Marth
N-air 2%/3% (hit 1), 6%/8% (hit 2)
F-air 7%/10%
B-air 9%/12%
U-air 9%/12%
D-air 11% (blade), 13% (non-meteor tip), 14% (meteor tip)

Overall Ness is a well designed solid A-tier character (as all characters balance/design should strive to become). The issue mainly lies on other characters just needing buffs to catch up.

 

[Mysteltainn]

I really doubt he'll be nerfed, and if he is, I'm sure it'll be small tweaks. Ness is the best he has ever been, I won't deny that, and I really enjoy using him as I always have, but he still has a few weaknesses that people can capitalise on should they be smart enough.

As for B-Throw: I'd rather not beat a dead horse, but it has always been the way it is, and if it does get nerfed, I'll be expecting some pretty nice buffs in return. If you get grabbed by Ness, you should expect to be in trouble, it's just the type of character he is, similar to Luigi in that respect.

Ness is kind of weird this time around. I feel like many people fear he'll be nerfed simply because he is considered to be a solid, viable option for the first time in Smash's history by many people... If that makes any sense, I don't know, lol.

 

[Manbeartigerphoenix]

I'd be pretty upset if Ness got a nerf, he doesn't even deserve it. Ness' bthrow has the weakness of being coupled with Ness' bad grab range. Ness' aerials besides his fair have subpar range and his fair is balanced out by being a weak move damage/knockback-wise. On top of that Ness' ground game, while I feel it got slightly buffed since Brawl, is still below-average as well.

Ness at this point is simply solid in a game where over half the cast is either mediocre or just unexplored much due to being a new addition to the game. I think the true solution would be a buff to the mediocre and leave Ness be as he is. Why is Ness even on the radar when S tier characters like Diddy and Sheik are in a far different league than Ness?

 

[Earthbound360]

If you're nerfing Ness' uair, you better break the knees of Diddy's uair first.

 

[Noa.]

IMO:

In need of a significant amount of nerf:
Diddy and Sheik

Heavy nerfs to tone them down:
Rosa
Sonic
Pika

Some soft love tap nerfs:
Zss
Ness
Luigi
Yoshi
Fox

 

[Manbeartigerphoenix]

Ness is fine as he is. It seems everyone thinks Ness is too strong because he destroys noobs really well, aka on FG mode where my winrate is above 80%. But when I play people who have been playing my Ness since 2008 I actually have to do some significant work to win.

When you play against people who actually know how to play defensively and know how to properly handle Ness' moves then you'll see Ness isn't some Smash god who is invincible and that you have to think and make some predictions before throwing out a move.

 

[Tikao]

I'd say the only one who actually deserve a nerf are diddy and sheik (and maybe sonic)

then there are a bunch of characters, who are ok and then a bunch, who realy need buffs

 

[Earthbound360]

The only nerfs I think are needed are Sonic, Sheik, and Diddy. I'd like to see some light nerfs to Rosalina and Fox though (mostly just his jab).

To put things into perspective for Ness, just barely being top 10 reaaaalllllyyyy shouldn't constitute a nerf.

 

[Manbeartigerphoenix]

I still wish Sonic wasn't even in the game. I hate Sonic with a passion since the Sega vs Nintendo days. Also I shudder thinking of my competitive Brawl days when I had to play against Sonic players who just did hit-and-run stall tactics attempting to run out the time because that was their best meta...

 

[ilysm]

IMO:

In need of a significant amount of nerf:
Diddy and Sheik

Heavy nerfs to tone them down:
Rosa
Sonic
Pika

Some soft love tap nerfs:
Zss
Ness
Luigi
Yoshi
Fox

This is my opinion on the matter as well. Thanks, Noa.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Even as a Sheik main, I'm looking forward to patch 1.0.6 and hoping Ness gets completely ****ing gutted because PK Fire, Fair and especially back throw are basically Armageddon.

Also the person who said it kills later in Smash 4 is delusional, it's literally the strongest it's ever been, coupled with the fact that grabs and throws are so brainless definitely makes it a cool and balanced move.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

LOL this thread name
It won't be that bad, if it is nerfed then you have other options
#adapt
On the bright side, Ness isn't Zelda

 

[PUK]

Ness has back throw, up air, back air, up b and good gimp ability. If his back throw is nerf he won't be hurt.
Now i would like Diddy side b puting him in helpless state. It would really hurt him without killing him.
More land lag on Fair and BF for sheik would allow some punishes on bad spaced move.

 

[Lukingordex]

I don't think Ness needs to be touched.

He's a really strong character, however, he has a VERY BIG weakness: his neutral game is garbage. Seriously, take a look at some of Ness' hardest MUs (Sonic, Rosalina, Sheik, Megaman, DHD(?), Link(?)), they all win against Ness because they're just good at abusing of that weakness.

Also @ Noa. I have to disagree with yoshi needing nerfs, he's overrated. He has literally no safe on shield options, almost no true combos and no kill setups. If you play this MU right, he doesn't become as scary as he initially looks.

 

[Earthbound360]

So many misinformed people in this thread lol.

Hurting Ness' bthrow will make him significantly worse. It's one of the really godo things about him. Without his KO power, he doesn't have much.

Fair is unsafe, PK Fire is just lol. If you're complaining about PK Fire then I don't know what to say to you.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

So many misinformed people in this thread lol.

Hurting Ness' bthrow will make him significantly worse. It's one of the really godo things about him. Without his KO power, he doesn't have much.

Fair is unsafe, PK Fire is just lol. If you're complaining about PK Fire then I don't know what to say to you.

If you think PK fire isn't annoying then that makes you bad

 

[Earthbound360]

Annoying? Quite possibly.
Overpowered? Lol.

Nerfs aren't designed to get rid of the annoying stuff. They're designed to get rid of the OP stuff.
If you wanna nerf like that, then you might as well nerf Mii Gunner's fair too.

Also, if you're getting hit by PK Fire that much, YOU must be bad. How hard is it to not get hit by a 15 frame startup projectile that travels lower to the ground than any other one in the game, has 10 frames of endlag, and has less range than Luigi's fireball?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'm being called misinformed and you don't even know the frame data of your moves and are instead guessing numbers, pls.

Unless of course it only has 10 frames ending lag, in which case that's hilariously OP.