Advancing the Mewtwo Meta Game

[ihasabuket]

Boys, it finally happened
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg4ErjgdgYw&feature=youtu.be

 

[Gandhi Jam]

Boys, it finally happened
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg4ErjgdgYw&feature=youtu.be

O...M...G o.O

 

[ihasabuket]

I learned a bit of samus recently and then I played mewtwo incorporating the whole WD ftilt thing by accident. While playing against a fox I realized that tipper ftilt was putting fox into the spikestun animation like shine does on heavier characters because of the nature of sakurai angles. So I went home and found that unstaled tipper ftilt will spike fox until 20% normally and until 48% while crouching. Obviously it'd be better to hit with the middle or inner hitbox to get a knockdown but I thought I'd throw that little tidbit in. Anyway, because ftilts middle and tipper hitboxes are higher up, they cover aerial approaches much better than dtilt does. The fox I played was usually expecting a WD dtilt approach and I accidentally stuffed his SH nair and he told me he was trying to SH over dtilt.
These two mixups turned out to be really solid in neutral making fox respect my space a bit and making him play a bit more patient. At that point he started waiting me out so I did what I do when im playing samus against a patient fox, I started charging my neutral b to bait from a distance. There are too many different ways that situation plays out so I'll leave that for another time if someone asks, but just know it's a great bait since you benefit from them waiting.
I also found a little trick for CC dtilt. To compensate for mewtwo's lack of traction I crouch with the control stick on the bottom diagonal notch facing forward. This lets you ASDI in while still crouching. When I get hit I move the control stick straight down and push A at the same time to get a dtilt input. Of course a strong hit nair will still send you too far starting at around 40%. It's also great that your main CC option isnt a huge commitment like samus's dsmash in case they cross you up. I felt like I was doing really well in neutral but I need to work on my punish game and ledge AIs.

 

[Deleted member 212841]

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[ihasabuket]

Fox suffers next to no hitstun from soft ftilt at those low percents, the spikestun animation has no impact on that. The fox could punish you for those ftilts, he just wasn't used to the matchup yet. (at least in that regard) It's a lot like when Foxs first play Puff and they don't know that low percent bair is a free grab if the puff doesn't fade away after hit.

I've yet to learn the ledge AI and tbh I've never felt I needed it. You can cover pretty much every response to vertical Teleport ledge stalls with either a ledgedash or NIL Teleport to center. The inputs are easier, too, so if you haven't picked those up yet I'd strongly suggest adding them to your toolkit. It makes getting back to neutral from the ledge quite easy. (ignoring the mortal technical flubs of course)

Yeah I kinda figured that and I've been thinking things through to develop my general neutral game(and mewtwo's too).
I believe I posted a link to a study on reaction time in this thread but I've been developing my neutral based on that. The gist of it is that if you know what option youre going to do, average reaction time to any stimuli it is 13 frames. If you have to decide between multiple options based on different stimuli(in this case approaches) it'll be minimum 23 frames to just distinguish an approach and a bit more to determine the correct option. So effective mixups have to have different counterplay but theres a fair amount of leniency when it comes to frame disadvantages.
WD into a tilt is great for catching fox out of his dashdance and conditioning him to CC or run up shield. WD grab is the counterplay to both CC and shield which is what we all want. It's important to note that you should be doing long enough WD's for you to start grab before your forward momentum from the WD ends. When you you grab with the WD's forward momentum you preserve some of your momentum and keep sliding throughout your grab animation. Almost as if you did a JC grab after your WD without the dash and jump inputs. Try it out and you'll see what I mean.
Im gonna try to see what else works for me in neutral. I always tell my friends how to counter my approaches so that I can see what works and force myself to incorporate mixups. I'll post soon

 

[MookieRah]

So I am legit maining M2 again. Something happened, and suddenly my M2 is way better for no real reason other than my Marth training was apparently undercover M2 training. I've come to the conclusion that M2 has quite an amazing tech chase game and can really mess people up with it. About the only thing M2 can't cover is a DI away tech away in situations where the opponent has enough stage behind them to actually roll the max distance away.

I just saw some of Zoma's vids and man his combo game is insane. I'm going to study that and work in 20XX to get to his level, as well as work on some more teleport antics.

Approaching Fox and Falcos that don't **** up their **** is hard. Any wrong move on my part feels punishable, while, at the moment, they have a lot of wiggle room to move around and do **** as they please. Sadly, in the Zoma videos I saw he doesn't do stuff much more advanced than I already do. It is likely the case that there isn't much to be done, but instead I just have to be super solid and make every opening count with crazy combos or tech chases.

EDIT:
Goddamn can M2 be technical. You guys know what is really hard to do? A turn around shield stop DJC fair with an l cancel (or alternatively a pivot DJC fair). That's REALLY hard, and my hands are like ???? when I attempt it. That said, something like that would allow for some siiiiiick controlled punishes.

 

[Deleted member 212841]

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[MookieRah]

I meant l-cancel, but I derped it up.

Some new technology/methodology:
To consistently perform standing in place insta-DJC fairs, here is an intput method.

Hold L/R -> tap up on C-stick -> immediately press up on control stick while flicking the C-stick to perform a fair.

You can also do this not as an insta-DJC, and allows you to easily do DJC fairs when someone DI's your up throw straight up.

This also opens the door to doing something which is ridiculously hard, but will be largely practical:

Psuedo pivot shield stop insta-DJC fairs, or the thing I had in the edit above. I think that would be useful in neutral for reactionary anti-airs, as well as useful in fair chains if you opponent misses their tech, as you can pass through them with an insta-DJC and perform another insta-DJC fair in place to continue the chain further.

 

[Deleted member 212841]

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[MookieRah]

Here is a video I just made to show a friend what I was talking about:

I didn't do it in this video, but as I said you can do this technique with pivot shield stops. The fact that I literally thought up this input method an hour ago but am already able to sorta do this shows that it's definitely a tech that is not overly difficult to perform consistently.

EDIT:
So not only does it allow for you to do pivot DJC aerials, but you can also easily do fade back DJC fairs. It brings so much more control to DJC stuff. It's also not hard to learn, I'm really catching onto it with very little time spent messing with it.

EDIT EDIT:
You know that sling shot effect you get with your DJC? Like if you jump forward and DJC a backair the right way and you suddenly get a lot of moment backwards? Yeah, you can do that with fairs going backwards with this tech. So you can fade back DJC fair, or slighshot fade back DJC fair.

 

[Deleted member 212841]

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[MookieRah]

Well yeah, playing claw can bypass this, but I don't think it's necessary, and this method allows you to do it non-claw. I also think a vast majority of players don't and won't use claw, and as I've never seen people discuss this topic my guess is that few ever thought about an input method like this if at all, and if it was thought of it certainly wasn't discussed openly. I shared this with Jim Jam Flim Flam, an old crewmate of mine that has always been a Ness main, and it was also news to him, so it's not something the Ness players seem to discuss/discussed either.

I personally never thought about getting the sling shot effect from a stationary position before, and that is another area this shines. Being able to hit targets a decent ways behind you with a fair is gonna come quite in handy.

DJC fair can totally anti-air. It's mostly for stopping really predictable Fox/Falco/Falcon nair approaches, much like Marth's fair, except it requires way more precision. Basically, if you expect them to go deep you can likely get away with it as long as you have good timing. I don't recommend doing it often, cause it's easily baited, but being able to do it from a dash dance would make it less situational / more viable.

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EDIT:
On an entirely different note, this isn't common Mewtwo knowledge. It is counter productive to the fledgling M2 community to brush this aside. This isn't anything 'new' per se, but the method to produce this outcome is helpful the M2 community. Throwing doubt on it just makes it seem like no big deal which would lead to many glossing over it, but this is something that people should be aware of.

Also, shield stop pivot DJC fair is a thing now. I don't think that was ever a thing.

 

[Sieghart]

EDIT:
On an entirely different note, this isn't common Mewtwo knowledge. It is counter productive to the fledgling M2 community to brush this aside. This isn't anything 'new' per se, but the method to produce this outcome is helpful the M2 community. Throwing doubt on it just makes it seem like no big deal which would lead to many glossing over it, but this is something that people should be aware of.

Also, shield stop pivot DJC fair is a thing now. I don't think that was ever a thing.

I do pivot DJC aerials all the time but I'm just now realizing that all the time I spent practicing empty/smash/tilt pivots could could probably have been better used practicing my neutral. I had never considered shield stopping to pivot since I already had empty pivots down by the time I was told about it so I guess it's a bit late for me now. I'll definitely mention it to anyone else who could use it, though.

Also worth noting that I don't play claw for anything and I've got just about all M2 tech I've seen mentioned, at least in this thread and Melee M2's, down consistently. (NIL Teleports aside, that's a work in progress.) I've seen that it helps some people but I started playing smash long after playing even more technical games and playing claw at this point hurts my right hand really quickly as a result.

 

[MookieRah]

Ironically, stuff like pivot DJC fairs is only useful if you understand neutral very well and know when it would be a good time to use it xD. Pretty cool to hear that someone can do it vanilla style. My consistency with pivot aerials is kinda ok, but shield stop pivots are stupid easy by comparison and I virtually never mess it up, so I'm willing to give up a frame or two for the increased execution, but that is a tangent.

Still though, nobody talks about this stuff with M2 or any other DJC character. More people need to know about it, it should be something that is easily found if they were trying to learn M2.

 

[ihasabuket]

Im pretty sure ive mentioned pivot shield stop aerials (using the cstick to jump OoS) in this thread. I use it to use bair as a combo finisher though. Never thought about doing a pivot shield fair to stuff approaches though. Now that im looking at the hitbox for fair it does seem like itd be a good antiair especially because of the way mewtwo's hurtbox leans back.

I'll go try it out now I'll give some feedback in a few minutes.
Edit: tried fair against a 20XX fox CPU doing mixed SHFFL shine aerials and it doesnt seem to be a good antiair because the hitbox isnt active enough. That said, it's much easier to make contact when a spacie is jumping at you with dash momentum so I cant say with certainty that it isnt a good antiair as I havent it tried it this way. Hopefully i'll have someone to test this against soon.

 

[MookieRah]

Not sure why active frames makes it a bad anti-air for instances where you predict an outcome. It's like saying down smash is a bad edge guard cause it only has 2 active frames, but that move is the destroyer of stocks. I've intercepted so many aerials with fair, even back in the early days, but it isn't general purpose. Pivot DJC fair would simply allow me to do it from a dash dance.

EDIT: Perhaps the problem is more semantic. Perhaps anti-air is too strong of a word for most people to include my usage of fair as an anti-air. So, instead I'll say that fair is great at 'intercepting' aerial targets. Intercept seems to imply precision due to it's word usage, and may help people understand that I don't mean you can wall someone off with fairs or anything like that.

A more general purpose anti-air is nair, and that works by just throwing you your hitboxes whenever you expect them to jump. You really just take a number from their book and just preemptively jump at them for a change. I started doing this more after seeing Zoma do it in vidoes, and find it ironically effective.

EDIT EDIT:
Am I the only person that is actually trying to communicate with Zoma? If not, is there a place where he hangs out online similar to the smashboards that isn't Japanese only? So far we are commenting to each other on youtube, but that isn't super conducive for prolonged conversations or exchanges.

 

[Sieghart]

Am I the only person that is actually trying to communicate with Zoma? If not, is there a place where he hangs out online similar to the smashboards that isn't Japanese only? So far we are commenting to each other on youtube, but that isn't super conducive for prolonged conversations or exchanges.

Probably, I'd be surprised if you weren't. Not that I know of.

 

[ihasabuket]

Not sure why active frames makes it a bad anti-air for instances where you predict an outcome. It's like saying down smash is a bad edge guard cause it only has 2 active frames, but that move is the destroyer of stocks. I've intercepted so many aerials with fair, even back in the early days, but it isn't general purpose. Pivot DJC fair would simply allow me to do it from a dash dance.

EDIT: Perhaps the problem is more semantic. Perhaps anti-air is too strong of a word for most people to include my usage of fair as an anti-air. So, instead I'll say that fair is great at 'intercepting' aerial targets. Intercept seems to imply precision due to it's word usage, and may help people understand that I don't mean you can wall someone off with fairs or anything like that.

A more general purpose anti-air is nair, and that works by just throwing you your hitboxes whenever you expect them to jump. You really just take a number from their book and just preemptively jump at them for a change. I started doing this more after seeing Zoma do it in vidoes, and find it ironically effective.

Well like I said its much easier to space and time when the opponent is moving towards you really fast. The 20XX CPUs only use aerial drift to move forward during their SHFFL shine pressure making it really hard to space fair during its small active frame window. I said I'd try to test it against SHFFLs with dash momentum which is a realistic scenario in neutral.

Am I the only person that is actually trying to communicate with Zoma? If not, is there a place where he hangs out online similar to the smashboards that isn't Japanese only? So far we are commenting to each other on youtube, but that isn't super conducive for prolonged conversations or exchanges.

I've tweeted him a few times to show him this thread and a few videos but he doesnt understand much english. He even tweeted "I want to be good at english" shortly after.

 

[Deleted member 212841]

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[MookieRah]

I'm planning to record my netplay stuff. The problem has mainly been that I haven't had much time for it the past few days.

 

[Deleted member 212841]

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[Deleted member 212841]

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[Sieghart]

If you guys understand something I don't then let me know, I really hope there's something simple I'm overlooking here.

I don't think that's the case here since I have the same problem with the same noteworthy mention of the fact that the problem is nonexistent with other characters I play. The only useful advice I've received thus far is learning to SDI stuff like nair implementing good combo DI whenever I need it. At the very least M2 feels a lot less like combo fodder which means you have more opportunities to play neutral. I also do a lot of shadow ball charging and comboing into shadow ball which I personally find helps balance out my typically mediocre punishes.

 

[MookieRah]

I used to have a ton of problems with CF as M2, but lately he's the least scary of the 'viable' cast to me. In fact, I have more trouble against CF as Marth than my M2. In general, I think the whole matchup is determined by who has the better neutral game. He definitely hits hard and has a ton of guaranteed stocks off of some basic setups at mid to late percent, but M2 can combo him, tech chase him, and edge guard him like crazy.

Some things to think about:
If he keeps jumping through you with aerials then dash dance so that you turn around before he hits your shield so you can shield grab. This puts a stop to a lot of shenanigans and forces the CF to think about their approach.

Don't commit too soon to his dash dancing, cause he's probably scouting for an opening. Be very sparing with tilts and such unless you feel that they will hit, cause his speed will more than likely allow him to punish on a whiff. If a CF is being very non-committal I tend to be able to push him far enough towards the edge to where tilts will likely land cause he likely will go on the offense or try to run through me as an attempt to regain stage control.

On the flip-side, if the CF is very prone to taking to offense in neutral then it's often best to just let him do his thing and try to dash into his aerials early so you can shield grab or DJC fair as a follow up. Falcon doesn't really have much of a ground game, and as such they tend to toss out aerials. Just learn when and where you can follow-up from them and you are gold.

Sometimes dash attack doesn't suck. If the CF is jumping a lot, a dash attack can work in much the same way a short hop nair works. I have also been working on a jump turnaround shadow ball charge to grab trick, and that seems to be very effective in these cases too.

If the CF is being patient, charge up your shadow ball. Uncharged shadow balls have limited uses, so don't go for that unless you have a lot of space, but a fully charged shadow ball is damn amazing and has so many potential uses that could rock CF's world so you should always try to get it when you can.

A note on FJ fair: it doesn't give you any more options than a DJC fair, and I don't think it's much safer, to be honest. I did FJ fairs back in the day because I didn't know when to DJC fair, so I have a lot of experience using it. A full jump fair against a shield puts you in a bad situation, and even though it might not lead directly into a hit or a grab, usually the bad positioning will indirectly lead to some percent. If you land a full jump fair it will likely only combo if they DI just right. At this point, if I feel like a fair will hit I will do a DJC fair because I am counting on it landing, for one, and if it lands I have far more control on my followups.

Some tech that might help:
You can slingshot your fair backwards just enough that Falcon can't really follow up and you are within d-tilt range. I haven't implemented this into my game yet, I am getting close, but it seems to be legitimate shield pressure as I can't see how it's punishable by pretty much any character as long as you hit them or their shield with fair. In other words, the risky part is you getting in range, but afterwards it feels safe. You can also slingshot much farther back or DJC so that you fall right on top of them, so it's a healthy mix-up situation.

I don't think this is some sort of unwinnable matchup or anything but, atm, I feel like any Falcon that knows how to throw out aerials can do so blindly without much risk since I've got to work to hard to get any sort of meaningful hit in.

That describes the Marth matchup far more than Falcon, imo. Falcon can't really just toss aerials mindlessly without getting shield grabbed.

Protip:
The dumb Falcon edgeguard is legit. Just charge a shadow ball so that the shadow ball faces the ledge and CF will have to land a near perfect up B from below to not get hit. It's much easier for him to avoid this gimmick from far away though, as his max horizontal ledge grab range is pretty lenient.

 

[MookieRah]

Sorry for the double post, but honestly the characters that I don't really have great answers for are Falco and Ice Climbers.

Falco lasers just shut down my game. It stunts my movement, it prevents me from getting in when I need to, and if a Falco is smart they will just camp me with lasers as it forces me to approach in a largely risky manner as it prevents me from picking and choosing when to go in. Everything else about Falco is manageable, but lasers just ruin my day. I should probably work on power-shielding, but that still doesn't fix my true problems, it just simply mitigates them.

With Ice Climbers... well they eliminate most of my grab game. I have to focus on all the times when I shouldn't grab when I otherwise would, and then if I'm able I need to do an immediate back throw as to prevent getting blasted (for those who don't know, back throw has a nifty hitbox that will smack people who are near the character you are throwing, it also comes out the fastest of his throws) which is also limiting. Ice blocks are also a pain, as they interrupt me in a similar, albeit less effective, way as Falco lasers.

 

[Deleted member 212841]

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[MookieRah]

For Falco I like full jumping a lot in the matchup, stole that trick from zoma.

I haven't had as much luck with full jump shenanigans against Falco in the long run. You can't really push forward in any sort of safe way with it, and if the Falco is smart he will just sit back and laser you. Almost any approach I take seems to put myself in a bad situation due to being forced to go straight at him, and it's not like I get an insta-win in neutral if I get into a good position despite the lasers because Falco's aerials will out-prioritize my everything. This more than anything seems like the biggest uphill battles I face. I'd rather deal with a Jiggs or a Marth player trying to wall me out with well-spaced aerials.

Use dtilts to poke / prevent wd in approaches.

Crouch cancel downsmash. It's rough. I played one of the better British IC players and at my best he two stocked me. That said, there was a lot more I could do, it's just the match-up is rough as hell.

Turns out the thing I was overlooking was shield grabs, lol.

Yeah, I think the only thing that is safe on shield is a knee. I suppose the other aerials can be safe, but that would require near perfect timing and being super low to the ground when the move comes out, which hardly ever happens. In any case, I'm glad it helped!

Speaking of M2's shield grab game, why is it that his is better than pretty much every other character? The frame data doesn't support it being special, and I really don't think my old theory of M2 being tall, checks out, cause Ganondorf is just as tall/taller with identical grab speed and he can't shield grab like M2. So what's the deal?

 

[Deleted member 212841]

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[MookieRah]

It just seems better than other characters's shield grabs. It requires more precision than normal on my opponent's part to avoid getting shield grabbed.

 

[Deleted member 212841]

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[MookieRah]

If you have specific examples I could try to give you a better answer. There's just a lot of things that go on which is why I gave you the laundry list, sorry. My guess would be that the majority of the responsibility for easier shield grabs lies in Mewtwo's traction. It's much harder to cross him up so if you want to avoid getting shield grabbed you have to space your aerials with fade aways and ****. Unless you are puff, other characters just don't have the aerial acceleration to do that easily. They have to have the intention to do so before jumping. Using the Falcon example since it's pretty dramatic and very noticeable in the game I linked earlier; M2K could liberally shield whenever Falcon jumped since jump ins would be an easy grab as a result of frame data + Mewtwo's grab range. Hax adapted by doing fade away nairs but that limited how far he could reach and wouldn't let him claim space. What's more is that he had to not fastfall to spend enough time airborne to drift far enough away which would result in the second hit of the nair not hitting sheild/Mewtwo and giving M2K multiple unpunished whiffed shield grabs. There was just too much time lost between first hit on shield and Falcon being actionable again.

I'd agree with that, but at the same time characters have a harder time to avoid shield grab against M2 in non-cross-up situations. Take Falco pillars for example. If I play the same opponent with my Marth and Mewtwo, it is often the case that if I go for shield grabs as Marth I would consistently get shined out of the grab, but as M2 I would get the grab. The window to punish my shield grabs as M2 seems to be smaller and requires my opponent to be more precise than normal.

 

[Deleted member 212841]

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[ihasabuket]

Falco lasers just shut down my game. It stunts my movement, it prevents me from getting in when I need to, and if a Falco is smart they will just camp me with lasers as it forces me to approach in a largely risky manner as it prevents me from picking and choosing when to go in. Everything else about Falco is manageable, but lasers just ruin my day. I should probably work on power-shielding, but that still doesn't fix my true problems, it just simply mitigates them.

I play the MU kinda campy against falco. I typically just stay on platforms and charge SB there. Nice thing is that falco has to get right under you to hit you and you can always shield drop punish from that position. He has to either commit to a FJ aerial, which you can punish really easily by jumping OoS with an aerial, or he can do a rising upair(on PS or yoshi's) which you can punish with shield drop. Even if he lands the upair it doesnt get him much. Once you get a fully charged SB things become a lot easier because you can punish approaching aerials after a laser. SB is also so slow that reflecting it will give you enough time to react and shield especially since it launches you back. The cool thing is that SB wont come out if he does multiple lasers so it'll only come out if he does something else after the laser. Another neat thing I do is crouch armor the laser and use disable if I think he's gonna approach with an aerial. If he lasers again I get hit out of disable's endlag if he approaches he gets knocked down. Of course these are just mixups I use in bewteen powershields and WDs OoS. As melee mewtwo mentioned FJ nair is good too but it becomes so much better when your opponent sees you have mixups and options.
We could probably learn a bit from Blea Gelo, a luigi player who has some success in this MU using mostly powershields and WD OoS into quick tilts and smash attacks.

I'd agree with that, but at the same time characters have a harder time to avoid shield grab against M2 in non-cross-up situations. Take Falco pillars for example. If I play the same opponent with my Marth and Mewtwo, it is often the case that if I go for shield grabs as Marth I would consistently get shined out of the grab, but as M2 I would get the grab. The window to punish my shield grabs as M2 seems to be smaller and requires my opponent to be more precise than normal.

Mewtwo's traction is so low that falco's dair will usually push mewtwo out of shine range while mewtwo's grab still outranges it. Late unstaled dair is -2 on shield already, if he whiffs shine he's unactionable for another 3 frames plus his 5 frame jumpsquat giving you time to grab him before and during his shine.

Edit: Forgot to mention I only use disable and SB after taking a laser if falco is far enough that he can only reach me with the end of his dash jump aerial.

 

[Deleted member 212841]

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[MookieRah]

Well, stuff like shieldstun, hitlag etc. on dependent purely on Falco so frame data wise the pressure is the same. The only variables that could be resulting in a difference is if Falco is close enough to hit Marth/Mewtwo with the Shine during their grab animations as well as when he hits there shield with the dair. Mewtwo has possible advantages in both cases since his shield is bigger and his grabbubble is more disjointed as well as getting pushed farther from Falco by his Dair. (he also doesn't lean forward like Marth does during his grab) Of course, there's also the potential inconsistency between your input and whoever is using Falco against you. The ease may be simply luck or a false observation.

Possibly on the last part, although it has always been like that for me. My M2 shield grabs things my other characters couldn't. I would have to start playing and recording a lot of matches to prove either way, but I'm operating under the assumption that it's M2's characteristics. I still wonder if there is more to it, because if we completely understood it we could exploit it to it's furthest potential.

Mewtwo's traction is so low that falco's dair will usually push mewtwo out of shine range while mewtwo's grab still outranges it. Late unstaled dair is -2 on shield already, if he whiffs shine he's unactionable for another 3 frames plus his 5 frame jumpsquat giving you time to grab him before and during his shine.

There is quite a big difference between shield grabbing someone and grabbing them after a whiffed shine. I would have mentioned if it was the latter. In any case, from what you and MeleeMewtwo have said I think that it might be a good idea to get into the habit of shield DI'ing away from aerials when my opponent is in my face, as that might allow me to counter grab (as opposed to shield grab) them.

Zoma does this a lot when he wants to approach. The rest is more counter approaches to force to respect his space and do more defensive lasers that he can approach off of. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7_Tfe38bBQ I like this video a lot cause you can tell this isn't the Falco's first time playing Zoma's Mewtwo.

I'll look into that specific thing with Zoma videos and check out Blea Gelo as well. I was also thinking about looking at high level Peach play, because she should have it just as bad (if not worse) than M2 cause she is slow, fairly tall, light, and is DJC'able.

EDIT:
A slight tangent, but would everyone in here think I was crazy if I thought M2 could possibly be as good of a character as Peach? I mean, honestly one of the reasons Peach was even played as much as she was is because her down smash is busted at low level play, so there was enough of a base to develop her. Also Taj played, in his time, at demi-god level, which is a testament to his ability but also M2's.

 

[ihasabuket]

Zoma does this a lot when he wants to approach. The rest is more counter approaches to force the Falco to respect his space and do more defensive lasers that he can approach off of. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7_Tfe38bBQ I like this video a lot cause you can tell this isn't the Falco's first time playing Zoma's Mewtwo.

Forcing defensive lasers is good sometimes. The highest possible laser is a 22 frame commitment(jumpsquat, laser, and landlag) which gives you an opening for a FJ aerial or a SH if the lasers are really low. If you SH and you get hit by a laser you can spam A to get a nair/ fair out before you hit the ground. It's really good on small stages where they dont have much room to dash back.
Also I think you should always use Cstick to WD OoS against lasers so that you can WD as fast as possible.

I want to try teleporting OoS(no jump) to take a laser and dash back to whiff punish. It'll be a cool little way to clos space on bigger stages.

 

[MookieRah]

I just watched the vid you posted with Zoma @Melee Mewtwo and I must say that it inspires me far less than it does you, that's for sure xD. The first match he barely edges out his opponent, and that largely seems to be that the Falco player gets slightly impatient at the end, leading to Zoma getting some pretty crazy punishes that allow him to win. The second match just showcases how much the player was unaware of the fact that it was his lasers that were dominating the matchup, because he chooses Yoshi's as his counterpick, and is subsequently trashed there because he couldn't mount his laser game.

 

[Deleted member 212841]

gcyftftdtfyxycyvj

 

[MookieRah]

OK, so I recorded a few matches last night against a dude, his main was CF and was one of the better Falcon's on netplay that I've run into. I had 3 matches with his Falcon, and I uploaded one of them this morning before I went into class.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDApd68JcfY : A direct link cause it sucks to watch so tiny.

EDIT:
I really gotta turn up the settings on my recordings cause this is garbage quality.

Feel free to critique, although I'm quite aware with my trouble areas. I keep missing lots of tech and stuff that I shouldn't, but I'm also putting in the time. I do think this shows off Mewtwo's ridiculous shield grab game though.

I get off one of my dumb edgeguards with a charging shadow ball in another match I'll upload, hopefully tonight.

 

[Deleted member 212841]

gcyftftdtfyxycyvj