Advanced Players... Sucks For Us

[ksicproductions]

*Note*- Hey guys is Karem! I'm the one who had the Melee Tournament at his house a year ago in Port Richey, Florida. One of the best, missed you guys! ( Had to make a new account, forgot my user name lol )

I really need some reinsurance. Is there any hope for us advance players? I wanted a game that was deeper then Melee. Not a game with millions of new weapons/maps/characters. Ugh, just feels like the game is just not going to be as deep. I thought they would be putting new stuff in, not taking stuff out.... but wait.... not i can jump on someones head..... ya thats going to make this game so advanced . Thats a cool thing in all but only for a fun match with friends " Haha I just stepped on your head.... hahahaha!! ". It just seems the game is made for people who like to put it on 4 players and fight. Not people who go to tournaments to see who is the best, like myself( I love going to tournaments ). It feels there just babying the game a little but i trust the staff so im just hoping they dont screw over the hardcore gamers( which so far, thats how it seems ).

Take Care Guys And It's Good To Be Back
-KSic.

 

[red stone]

we'll always have shield grabbing lol

 

[Xanderous]

Yeah, well, there's always melee.

 

[red stone]

i don't even play melee anymore...i play the person

 

[kaibyaku]

I'm not too worried. We'll find out if some of the old techs are back tomorrow, and even if they aren't I'm sure people will find new ways to make gameplay more advanced. I wouldn't sweat it. People who really want to wavedash can just play Melee. I expect changes of the magnitude of SSB64-->SSBM, lots of new mechanics, etc. It'll be fun.

 

[ShortFuse]

I would never play a game with 25 characters and 29 stages! .....oh wait

even if ALL our tricks were gone, that wouldn't mean Sakurai hasn't secretly implemented some into Brawl. Melee is the best selling fighting game of all time (more than SF2). Fast fall, for example is no accident and neither was l-cancel. besides, melee launched in 2001 but some tricks/techniques were discovered years later. brawl will launchin 2008, we'll still be finding stuff out in 2010

" Haha I just stepped on your head.... hahahaha!!".

"HAHA! Look how Pikachu flops like a fish at this 'wavedash' move! HAHA!!"
the argument goes both ways.

 

[ksicproductions]

we'll always have shield grabbing lol

Haha, man i missed you guys! I dont understand why he wouldn't make a game for hardcore fans and normal ones to enjoy for years to come. Thats why i think im just being to pushy and soon well see amazing new techniques.... I hope

 

[Masterem243]

They'll always be the other Super Smash games.

 

[BentoBox]

Footstooling is a valid technique like any other does that bring over its set of applications and strategies. They're not "taking stuff out", they're building a new game. I wish people would stop crying already.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

You should really calm down.

The amount of "OH NOES TEH HARDCORE TECHNIQUES ARE GONE" threads is getting ridiculous.

And look at the positive Brawl Thread. Trust me, you bloody need it.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Now...what if. Just what if.

What if when we finally get our hands on Brawl and start dessecting it. We find...something even better then wavedashing or various other advanced techs?!

(waits for it to grab hold)

What if it was similar to wavedashing but had a whole different spin to it? However, because it's different, we haven't been able to find it yet because we have been looking just for wavedashing?

How about that?

A whole new batch of techniques for advanced players to exploit and use to thier content that will make the game even more skill based?

 

[SolidSonic]

Preemptive crying. The internet at its best.

 

[ksicproductions]

Lol, is easy to see that there has been millions of threads like this before but thats all you have to say, no need to attack me.

Anyway, Venus of the Desert Bloom, very smart reply. I see what your saying and lets hope your predication is true.

 

[Smash_Guy]

Haha, man i missed you guys! I dont understand why he wouldn't make a game for hardcore fans and normal ones to enjoy for years to come. Thats why i think im just being to pushy and soon well see amazing new techniques.... I hope

i agree because the hardcore fans of the series deserve for the game to be much better instead of all of the noobs taking over and forcing some of the creators to make it simpler and dont think because i just registerd that i am a noob at this game because im not i would PWN ANYONE in ssb or ssb meele. Okay now back to my first point hardcore fans deserve to have the game very good just like how good halo 3 was but when the game comes out on february 10 i will be one of the first people online pwning people but really hardore fans are who make up the fanbase for this game and thats the group of people making this game get such hype

 

[turbo_ja]

i find the best part of smash unlocking characters and all the secrets with good buddies of mine. i remember how fun it was playing 20 hrs straight to unlock mewtwo haha.

 

[ksicproductions]

i find the best part of smash unlocking characters and all the secrets with good buddies of mine. i remember how fun it was playing 20 hrs straight to unlock mewtwo haha.

Haha, ya same here Bud. Im not worried about the fun aspect, just if there babying the game to much.

P.S- All that work to get MewTwo and he sucked haha

 

[Red_Maniac]

Brawl will be a completely different game.

I'm sure they'll be many tournament legal stages for the tourney players.

Also, obviously people will experiment with Brawl and find brand new advanced techniques they could use.

It's possible.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

What I think what advanced players need to grip that Sakurai understands both schools. He understands the school of casual players as well as the school of advanced players. We knows how to make it the best for both sides. What we have seen thus far in Brawl is the first layer of the game. Through the gameplay videos and such, we have just seen special moves and maybe some techniques from previous games. However, we have not seen anything that resembles advanced techniques. That is where the advanced players will need to look into.

The reason why we do not know that wavedashing, l-canceling, wavedancing, etc are not in Brawl because we have only seen the casual gamer persepctive of the game.

Sakurai is smart. He's Japanese and in charge of, quite possibly, the best Nintendo game to date and proably the best Wii game ever. He knows how to pander tot he advanced players. So before you start saying Wavedashing deconfirmed, remember we have only seen a like 5 inches into the surface of a 20 feet long game.

 

[red stone]

i think he's just trying to soften the blow for casual gamers when they hit online. it won't work though because as long as there is a newbie online, i will be there to crush him/her.

 

[DragoonFenix15]

Man, why don't you Tourney players just concentrate on overall skill with each character and knowing when and where to make your moves, instead of idolizing all these little gameplay features and memorizing controller movements to perform "pro" feats.

If you want to have a fighting game where skill level is determined by how well you can master/memorize/pull off button combos and techniques, go play Street Fighter. This. Is. SMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSHHHHHHH!!!!

BESIDES. Remember the move from Smash 64 to Melee? Everything changed. Now once again, everything is changing. These games only come around once every 6 years or so, they aren't like other fighting games at all. You have to expect things to change. I am 100% sure there will be all the depth you guys want, there will be new techniques, both advertised and not advertised. Please don't assume so much about a game until YOU, yourself, actually play it. That's the worst thing you can do. Come on, it's Smash Bros. Can that much really go wrong?

 

[ksicproductions]

i think he's just trying to soften the blow for casual gamers when they hit online. it won't work though because as long as there is a newbie online, i will be there to crush him/her.

HAHAHAHA Ya online is going to be a blast, no matter how lame it seems right now.

But back on topic, Venus of the Desert Bloom, once again your 100% right! Why did i make this topic? I should of just P.Med you :-P

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

HAHAHAHA Ya online is going to be a blast, no matter how lame it seems right now.

But back on topic, Venus of the Desert Bloom, once again your 100% right! Why did i make this topic? I should of just P.Med you :-P

Due to this being the internet and the ambiguity of the :-p


Was that a sarcastic statement? Just wonderin.

 

[Smash_Guy]

i know since they are delaying it the should make not laggable in online play

 

[ksicproductions]

Due to this being the internet and the ambiguity of the :-p


Was that a sarcastic statement? Just wonderin.

Lol no Venus of the Desert Bloom, i was not being sarcastic. I agree with everything you have said so far and respect ya already.

 

[streetsk8er158]

Man, why don't you Tourney players just concentrate on overall skill with each character and knowing when and where to make your moves, instead of idolizing all these little gameplay features and memorizing controller movements to perform "pro" feats.

If you want to have a fighting game where skill level is determined by how well you can master/memorize/pull off button combos and techniques, go play Street Fighter. This. Is. SMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSHHHHHHH!!!!

BESIDES. Remember the move from Smash 64 to Melee? Everything changed. Now once again, everything is changing. These games only come around once every 6 years or so, they aren't like other fighting games at all. You have to expect things to change. I am 100% y banned." the ultimate test of skill is totally mastering your surroundings and then kicking sure there will be all the depth you guys want, there will be new techniques, both advertised and not advertised. Please don't assume so much about a game until YOU, yourself, actually play it. That's the worst thing you can do. Come on, it's Smash Bros. Can that much really go wrong?

finally someone talking some sense. I totally agree with that first point you made, I really hate hearing these " oooo the platform moves slightly in this stage thats gotta be tournesomeones *** at the same time. If we find ourselves playing a very different smash brothers in February we should be grateful it dosent take after the repetitive generic fighting game.

 

[Smash_Guy]

I know i would want it to end up being like draginball z

 

[simplicityho]

i know since they are delaying it the should make not laggable in online play

I hope you're faking stupid. For the sake of humanity.

 

[$ick]

What I think what advanced players need to grip that Sakurai understands both schools. He understands the school of casual players as well as the school of advanced players. We knows how to make it the best for both sides. What we have seen thus far in Brawl is the first layer of the game. Through the gameplay videos and such, we have just seen special moves and maybe some techniques from previous games. However, we have not seen anything that resembles advanced techniques. That is where the advanced players will need to look into.

The reason why we do not know that wavedashing, l-canceling, wavedancing, etc are not in Brawl because we have only seen the casual gamer persepctive of the game.

Sakurai is smart. He's Japanese and in charge of, quite possibly, the best Nintendo game to date and proably the best Wii game ever. He knows how to pander tot he advanced players. So before you start saying Wavedashing deconfirmed, remember we have only seen a like 5 inches into the surface of a 20 feet long game.

First time I agree with a casual player, good post. ^_^

 

[BentoBox]

What I think what advanced players need to grip that Sakurai understands both schools. He understands the school of casual players as well as the school of advanced players. We knows how to make it the best for both sides. What we have seen thus far in Brawl is the first layer of the game. Through the gameplay videos and such, we have just seen special moves and maybe some techniques from previous games. However, we have not seen anything that resembles advanced techniques. That is where the advanced players will need to look into.

The reason why we do not know that wavedashing, l-canceling, wavedancing, etc are not in Brawl because we have only seen the casual gamer persepctive of the game.

Sakurai is smart. He's Japanese and in charge of, quite possibly, the best Nintendo game to date and proably the best Wii game ever. He knows how to pander tot he advanced players. So before you start saying Wavedashing deconfirmed, remember we have only seen a like 5 inches into the surface of a 20 feet long game.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Its players that turned SSBM into what it now is, not the developers. Devs didn't leave Wavedashing in because they thought pros would make good use of it, its the player themselves that chose to do so. No matter how different brawl ends up, there will always be professional smashers because there's more that differentiate adv players and casuals than mere techniques. The removal of WDing doesn't imply that pros will suddenly lose their status.

Nothing indicates that devs had advanced players in mind when conceiving SSBM, and look where we are.

Andddd,

I'd say those 5feet are pretty revealing.

 

[Talendime]

"OH NOES TEH HARDCORE TECHNIQUES ARE GONE"

Why is it so necessary for people to write like this?
I mean, if you're going to even semi-quote somebody, you should atleast talk with the same manner they did. I see this on here like everyday, why do you guys have to be so rude to eachother? I'm sure nobody likes it. And sorry.

 

[ksicproductions]

I hope you're faking stupid. For the sake of humanity.

Ha dont bash him because he doesn't know all about how online works lol.

Smash_Guy, if you dont want lag, the best you can do is have a great router( connection ) and hope that the guy your playing does too. I almost never get lag in Halo, so lets hope it play out like that :-P

 

[simplicityho]

i agree because the hardcore fans of the series deserve for the game to be much better instead of all of the noobs taking over and forcing some of the creators to make it simpler and dont think because i just registerd that i am a noob at this game because im not i would PWN ANYONE in ssb or ssb meele. Okay now back to my first point hardcore fans deserve to have the game very good just like how good halo 3 was but when the game comes out on february 10 i will be one of the first people online pwning people but really hardore fans are who make up the fanbase for this game and thats the group of people making this game get such hype

I find that the best way of proving that you're not a noob is not being so infuriatingly arrogant and to write in proper English.

 

[ksicproductions]

Can we please just stop insulting each other and just stick to topic?

Anyway, ya most of you are right and i thank you all, for all the reinsurance!

 

[Mama]

I say we've got nothing to worry about. Its not the techniques that make advanced players so great. Its the mindset. We've got the will power to try to improve ourselves. We train and practice to get better using what we have at hand. Brawl looks like it will be just as deep if not deeper than Melee. Don't judge a book by its cover. The footstool hop may look trivial at a glance but you never know where we'll be able to take it in the future. They gave us something as simple as air dodging and we turned into wave dashing right?

Also there are plenty of other things not announced that are in the game. For example we'll be able to jump after air dodging and act after some (if not all) up-B recovery moves. Little things like that will have a big impact on the meta game in ways we can't foresee. There will always be things that set apart the hard core from the advanced in anything competitive.

 

[DrakeRowan]

I love how most people can suddenly read the future.

I guess I should start complaining now since the next soup I order might have a fly in it.

 

[mezbomber]

Mama makes a good point. Someone earlier also mentioned the fact that people weren't speculating what kind of advanced techniques they would find in Melee prior to it's release. (not sure if that's true, but I will run with that hypothesis) L-Cancel was in SSB64...were people passionately wondering if it would return in Melee? Were people disappointed when the lag reduction wasn't as effective when L-Cancelling in Melee as opposed to 64?

These techniques/glitches were found by players through improving their metagame. (people call them both, so I will mention both as I'm not about to represent either side) I'm of the opinion that the metagame is everything there is to competitive smash. I don't think it's the advanced techs that seperate the competitive from the casual. In most WD-threads, it seems people that know, utilize, and like these techniques counter the other side with, "so what if it's taken out of Brawl. That's not what's important."

Maybe we're all getting caught up in the language of it... I'd like to think that these things aren't techniques, glitches, or even exploits. All smash skill is just the metagame, and how the metagame evolves when players push to improve their ability. The product (generally labeled as an advanced tech or glitch) is merely an improved metagame.

I think I'm repeating myself a lot...sorry

 

[choknater]

i wonder how many of you are actually 'advanced players' lol

 

[mezbomber]

I think I'm an 'advanced player'...at the same time I don't think advanced players would consider me one. I've only known of such techniques since the beginning of this year, but since then I've been putting in some serious time trying to get them down and utilize is as sucessfully and efficiently as possible.

I figure I'm probably as advanced as anyone else was when they were just barely a year into the competitive scene...the only thing I lack is the time spent further practicing such techniques, and only because I didn't hear about them until so late.

I would hope to be considered an advanced player if only for the fact that I have since embraced that style of smashing and continue to push my abilities even though I know I got a real late start compared to most competitive smashers. I enjoy holding myself to that kind of standard, because I appreciate the game more than I did before I knew about these techniques.


...so, do I make the cut?

 

[Mama]

I think I'm an 'advanced player'...at the same time I don't think advanced players would consider me one. I've only known of such techniques since the beginning of this year, but since then I've been putting in some serious time trying to get them down and utilize is as sucessfully and efficiently as possible.

I figure I'm probably as advanced as anyone else was when they were just barely a year into the competitive scene...the only thing I lack is the time spent further practicing such techniques, and only because I didn't hear about them until so late.

I would hope to be considered an advanced player if only for the fact that I have since embraced that style of smashing and continue to push my abilities even though I know I got a real late start compared to most competitive smashers. I enjoy holding myself to that kind of standard, because I appreciate the game more than I did before I knew about these techniques.


...so, do I make the cut?

I'd say you do. An advanced player is an advanced player the moment they find the resolve to improve their game to its potential. The techniques can come later on. It took me a while to realize that but eventually I came to the acceptance stage that Brawl wont be Melee with more characters.

We wont be able to take Brawl to the next level until its in our hands. It will be the advanced players that pursue that goal, not the scrubs and therefore it will be the advanced players of Melee that become advanced players of Brawl first because they retain the mentality to take their skill to the next level. The scrubs/casuals will either choose to follow (and by doing so become advanced players like the rest of us) or reject it due to laziness/lack of interest and then call everything cheating as they did with Melee.

I started pursuing the competitive scene two years ago btw hehe.

 

[Red_Revival]

I'm with the idea that there will always be Melee. Even if it turns out that Brawl isn't much of a competitive game, Melee will still be fun for a while. And yeah, hopefully we'll figure out a way to play competitively again