About Mario's tier placement

[Inferno3044]

As you all have probably seen, Mario moved down a spot (Ness and Yoshi got above his placement and Zelda took a big dive) and is still low tier. Now probably some of you are thinking things like "why didn't Mario move up? He's better than some of the people above him" or "Mario's really only 1 spot above C. Falcon? C. Falcon who was bottom tier" Honestly I agree. Reflex is enough to bring up PT, FOW is enough to bring up Ness, but Boss isn't enough to bring up Mario? Boss has proven that Mario is actually a good character since the early days of Brawl. I think it's stupid, but I guess there's nothing we can do.

But I'm not here to complain about how Mario's not getting the respect we all think and know he deserves. I'm here to say how good it is for us. Mainly low tiers. Take a look at who's low tier:

F tier:
G tier:

Now some people can say "what about E tier?" Take a look at it:

E tier: :shiek:

Shiek is there. There is no way they are gonna add her in low tiers because she will be able to beat most of low tiers no problem. It also said on the tier list thread "On the other hand, Low Tier now officially loses Pokemon Trainer, Ness and Bowser, as we do not consider E Tier as a Borderline Low." Think of low tiers. No Sonic. No PT. No Ness (Pierce claims this MU is even). Our only challenge now besides a Mario ditto is Lucas and Ike and Ike is only a problem if you don't know the MU. Everyone should just find a low tier tournament and just dominate. It gives good rep and good money. Low tiers ftw.

 

[Matador]

On the other hand, Low Tier now officially loses Pokemon Trainer, Ness and Bowser, as we do not consider E Tier as a Borderline Low. However, Ness & Bowser were originally voted as Upper Low, but rather than another tier both were bumped into E. Hence, one could consider both Ness and Bowser acceptable characters in Low Tier tournaments.

I think Ness and Bowser are still low tier...maybe.

Not completely sure.

 

[HeroMystic]

Low tier tourney rep? Meh, if anything it'd place Mario at the top of low tier next time.

Honestly though? Ike didn't deserve his drop, and as I said a few hundred times, anything beyond B-tier is a garbled mess. The tier list, just like any other tier list is just any other list from before is just a hype list. From what I was told the tier list was based off voting, which means opinions, and tournament rankings beyond the "B-tier" rank becomes harder to base off of since no character is consistent.

I dunno, hard for me to take the list seriously when everything is just opinions.

 

[mars16]

Where is the new tier list at?

serious question

 

[HeroMystic]

Here you go.

 

[mars16]

...........Did Ness...........just get moved higher then Lucas!

Mario just got put Lower then before..... he didn't upgrade at all...

Ice climber's, higher then Marth


:uzi: mars16

 

[Inferno3044]

I think Ness and Bowser are still low tier...maybe.

Not completely sure.

It says possibly. If I hold one, I'm gonna try without them.

Low tier tourney rep? Meh, if anything it'd place Mario at the top of low tier next time.

Honestly though? Ike didn't deserve his drop, and as I said a few hundred times, anything beyond B-tier is a garbled mess. The tier list, just like any other tier list is just any other list from before is just a hype list. From what I was told the tier list was based off voting, which means opinions, and tournament rankings beyond the "B-tier" rank becomes harder to base off of since no character is consistent.

I dunno, hard for me to take the list seriously when everything is just opinions.

1. Ike isn't that good. He is very slow and easy to read. Inui says that Ike is in the bottom 5.
2. What else can you base the tier list off of? You really can't put fact to every little thing. A big thing is that these are the opinions of very high leveled players, TOs, etc. These aren't random biased people who want their character higher because they use them.

...........Did Ness...........just get moved higher then Lucas!

Mario just got put Lower then before..... he didn't upgrade at all...

Ice climber's, higher then Marth

About Ness: in the OP. Sometimes an extremely good player with the character like Reflex or Anther will bring that character up. Which is why I'm curious that Boss hasn't proven Mario's abilities enough for the Back Room to recognize it.

About IC's and Marth: Why wouldn't ICs be above Marth? You practically die if you get grabbed by a top IC player and they have grab setups. What you should've said is "Marth's higher than Wario?" Wario should be in a spot from 4-6.

 

[mars16]

What made Wario lower then Marth?

 

[lordhelmet]

Why are you guys so low? Mario is mid tier material.

 

[KirinBlaze]

I've lost complete faith in the Brawl BR.
Granted only like five characters actually matter, but still it's pretty ridiculous.
Anyway, no Ness?
lmfao.
Oh their going to be sorry at those Low Tier Tournaments.
<33

Ike deserved the drop.
He's god awful.

Falcon is not better then Link.
That's just silly.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'm totally with Kirin's statements.

My money is on Kirin that he will destroy everyone in low tiers.

 

[HeroMystic]

1. Ike isn't that good. He is very slow and easy to read. Inui says that Ike is in the bottom 5.
2. What else can you base the tier list off of? You really can't put fact to every little thing. A big thing is that these are the opinions of very high leveled players, TOs, etc. These aren't random biased people who want their character higher because they use them.

1. Inui can go suck a ****.
2. Because misinformation and misinterpretation are terrible. Tier lists, outside of smash, are based off of two things: Match-ups and Tournament results. If Match-ups weren't so terribly flawed they would be usable, and obviously tournament results are used, but not correctly. If results aren't consistent and practiced by multiple players, not one, then it is validated to be used. The fact that people believe opinions from top players > everyone else is garbage.

About Ness: in the OP. Sometimes an extremely good player with the character like Reflex or Anther will bring that character up. Which is why I'm curious that Boss hasn't proven Mario's abilities enough for the Back Room to recognize it.

Because Boss isn't consistent and he plays Luigi.

 

[hippiedude92]

Eh what's a tier list?

we're too sexy for one.

but boss still ***** low tier events no doubt

 

[A2ZOMG]

As much as I WANT to disagree with Inui, he's a very smart person that has been consistently correct about many things in this game EVER SINCE IT WAS RELEASED (although I do believe he needs to rethink his opinion on Snake and Mario). His reasons as for why Ike is bottom 5 are sound anyway, and the opinions of other smart players like Pierce and Rykoshet are consistent with his.

Ike wins against players who don't know the matchup. He's fundamentally like Donkey Kong, but a lot worse by virtue of having fewer mixups, options to juggle/followup, and fewer legitimate ways to set up kill moves. He has a few obvious options that can be countered easily with the correct playstyle or good reaction time, and he's very easily gayed by stuff.

When you're limited to the point that Ganondorf outdoes you in certain areas and can compete with you, you're a ridiculously terrible character.

 

[Inferno3044]

Because Boss isn't consistent and he plays Luigi.

Who got C. Falcon to go up? The only person I can think of would be Ally and he doesn't use him unless its low tiers. Same with Boss except he sometimes uses Mario in non-low tiers

 

[HeroMystic]

Again, it points back to my post about opinions.

 

[Chuee]

I dont get why E tier is mid.
I dont get why Mario is that low ._.
BTW his name is FOW.
But yeah, this tier list was terrible.

 

[Kanzaki]

Sheik, PT, Ness, Sonic, and Bowser.


The characters that moved out of low tiers actually has representatives that can beat/give a good fight to top players out there. Sheik and Bowser I don't know... But PT has Reflex, Ness has Fow, where I read some where Fow overhearing M2K saying he had troubles vs his Ness, also Vice Grip is pretty ****, Sonic has X who been doing good here in SoCal.

Mario has Boss of course, but the thing is, no disrespect to Boss, but from what I've been hearing, Luigi's the one that's been carrying him.

I think as of right now, Mario should still be low, but like the "high tier" of low tier, possibly tied with Lucas.

 

[KirinBlaze]

Bowser is good. Bowser is REALLY good. He should be where he is.

 

[Big-Omar]

Mario is only low because its a conspiracy against Mario. They're afraid of his 1337 skillz.

But either way, Mario is going to **** low tier tournies if you know the Lucas and Ike match up.

 

[KirinBlaze]

I still don't understand why Falcon went up. In a list based off TOURNAMENT PREFORMENCE Falcon has done nothing expect if Ally played him Low Tiers which can show how Falcon matches up with the others in Low Tiers. But if that's the case I don't understand why Mario/Link are so low. I've beaten plenty of good players in Low Tier Events with Mario/Link. Atomsk (Lucas/Falcon) with Link, Vex (Bowser) with Link, he also got be back the next time we played, Shadow (Ness) with Mario, and Inui (Ike) with Mario. If that's the reasoning behind it I can understand, but it doesn't make any sense for those two not to move up. I've clearly done something to show he's very good in Low Tiers.

Boss has also placed very high in Low Tier events which should show how Mario matches up against Low Tiers, which is really well.

 

[Matador]

Screw it Kirin. Half the people in BBR suck at the game.

 

[Big-Omar]

I told you man. Its a conspiracy. People hate us lol...

And I agree. CF goes up but not Mario and Link? o__O

 

[Inferno3044]

Mario has Boss of course, but the thing is, no disrespect to Boss, but from what I've been hearing, Luigi's the one that's been carrying him.

I can't remember where I've heard this from but I heard that Boss uses Luigi more because "he gets the job done" and I agree. He has better MU's against most of the top characters than Mario does. As I said though, think of this as a good thing. Mario will just dominate low tiers and we won't have many problems.

 

[Big-Omar]

And what about regular singles? D:

 

[Javon89]

We drop another spot.....I seriously don't think that CF and Mario's metagame is THAT close.

 

[hippiedude92]

boss still uses mario, like on randoms and other stuff, he just uses more luigi cuz it's just easier for him, i don't think it should be surprising and should be expected.

we just need to step it up

 

[BSP]

First, we know the bottom of the list isn't the most accurate...

But at least Mario will dominate the low tier events now. IMO it would suck to be where Ness is right now, non-usable for low tier and still unviable at this point. If he keeps going up though...

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

...Why does this have it's own thread?

Seriously, general discussion would've been fine.

 

[Flameleon]

-Guys, if you really want Mario to be at least as the "Low Tier Ruler", then you must **** all those LTier tourneys, at least, that status is the only thing that i can expect for our Mario.

In this world, full of greedy people, those who seek power, money and all that stuff, it's hard for us, for all those who don't expect all those things, or at least, only at the minimum, to be good among society...and in brawl, it's almost the same, where everything is ruled by Mk, Snakes, Falcos, etc, we have a very hard time to shine in all that madness, at least i can tell you something...never lose the hope, in yourselves, in Mario, and in everything you have or you can do, because, it's our duty to keep someone in the eyes of the people and that's the duty that we have with Mario, also, don't rely on Boss to do what a few or some of you can do too, i've seen some Marios who have actually beastly potential but they just need to get confidence and to enjoy more this game, the game that has gave us a lot of things...that's what matters, at least for us...-

 

[BoTastic!]

Guys, just accept it. Noone is repping Mario, not even Boss. He will stay stay that low until someone does something about it and honestly, I don't even care. This just means more money for us in low tier events.

 

[JUDGE]

hmmm...a question guys: if i place high in tournaments with mario, does it have any affect on the tier list?
i mean i live in europe, does it just affect the PAL tier list or even your tier list?

 

[Javon89]

-Guys, if you really want Mario to be at least as the "Low Tier Ruler", then you must **** all those LTier tourneys, at least, that status is the only thing that i can expect for our Mario.

In this world, full of greedy people, those who seek power, money and all that stuff, it's hard for us, for all those who don't expect all those things, or at least, only at the minimum, to be good among society...and in brawl, it's almost the same, where everything is ruled by Mk, Snakes, Falcos, etc, we have a very hard time to shine in all that madness, at least i can tell you something...never lose the hope, in yourselves, in Mario, and in everything you have or you can do, because, it's our duty to keep someone in the eyes of the people and that's the duty that we have with Mario, also, don't rely on Boss to do what a few or some of you can do too, i've seen some Marios who have actually beastly potential but they just need to get confidence and to enjoy more this game, the game that has gave us a lot of things...that's what matters, at least for us...-

Thanks Flame, that was inspirational, I guess we have to work harder this season and show that Mario IS the top of low tier.

 

[Fire!]

Mario would go up if there were more Mario mainers. They don't even need to place high in tournaments, just show up.

 

[Inferno3044]

He will stay stay that low until someone does something about it and honestly, I don't even care. This just means more money for us in low tier events.

This was the point of the post. Everyone just go to low tier events and do well.

 

[Yonder]

Personally I find it an insult to Mario to put him right next to Falcon. Come on, he's leagues ahead of Falcon. Falcon, Jiggs, and Samus would of been better off as bottoms with the Zelda character...or a low low tier lol

 

[BigLord]

What's the big deal about Mario VS Falcon here?

It's not the match-up of Mario VS Falcon that matters, it's ALL match-ups against the other characters. And Falcon is nearly as good as Mario in that.

But ah well, I agree with lordhelmet on the first page: you deserve to be higher.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Did the OP just call FOW "Foz"?
Also Shaky, Smash64 and FOW all brought up Ness.

 

[HeroMystic]

What's the big deal about Mario VS Falcon here?

It's not the match-up of Mario VS Falcon that matters, it's ALL match-ups against the other characters. And Falcon is nearly as good as Mario in that.

But ah well, I agree with lordhelmet on the first page: you deserve to be higher.

I didn't notice any Mario vs Falcon MU talk here. If anything everyone's just confused on how Captain Falcon moved up because of, essentially, one person, when multiple Mario mains have shown cases of high skill.

Don't really care about the tier list much though. I'd rather go my own way and see what happens.

 

[Inferno3044]

Thanks Flame, that was inspirational, I guess we have to work harder this season and show that Mario is BETTER than low tier.

That's what you meant to say, but I wanna keep Mario as a low tier for the sake of using him in low tier tourneys. If he isn't I'd have to pick up Yoshi or Bowser if he's allowed back (whole Mario character thing)

Did the OP just call FOW "Foz"?
Also Shaky, Smash64 and FOW all brought up Ness.

I didn't know his name. I'm gonna change it. I did forget to point out Smash64 who is also a very good Ness.