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A way to always trip with Falcos Reflector?

Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
19,345
First off, I've looked around and couldn't find anything regarding this idea. Nor when I posted it on a thread regarding Falcos Reflector did I get much input about it.

I noticed that whenever I used the reflector very close to the ground in a fall against someone standing still they would almost always trip more often than standing still on the ground. So I started doing this against a bunch of characters, but with a fastfall. They tripped more often than before.

Now I thought of an idea that the reflector only trips (or a very high chance) when the reflector's main body (not the blue sparks) hits a certain part of the characters body. That would explain why fastfalling than using the reflector close to the ground trips so often because it moves at a fast downward angle covering more of the persons body to hit that spot that would trip them.

To explain how it works against walking or standing person you look at how the person moves when doing those animations, they never really have the same body form for every movement, thus explaining why it works at time and not at others. One would never be hitting the right spot with the reflector. For a person like metaknight when he is standing still and moves into the a fighting stance just before making the animation of taking a small step back and looking the other way, the reflector always seems to trip him at that point.

So my idea is that if one could master the timing for using the reflector you could always trip the person on the ground no matter what they are doing except when your foe moves into the air. Although that would take testing to prove that this is how the reflector works from the idea that the tripping with the reflector is pure chance. I have no idea how to test that without going frame to frame and seeing when the reflector hits. So I hope someone else goes into testing this.
 

J4pu

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
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Location
Torrance/Irvine, CA, USA
If your theory of it having to hit a person's body in a certain spot to trip were true, then hitting a standing character would either always or never trip them depending on whether that character's spot was vulnerable. This is not true, never tested but I'm **** well certain.
However yesterday I watched the very first video to be made that showed "Sweeping" (causing a trip) and during the luig or lucas part (i cant remember which) I noticed the Dtilt would always trip at a certain distance the video did it 4 or 5 times and every time the Dtilt would slowly push them away until bam they trip, and if he accidentally used Dtilt again they would be back up and getting pushed farther away.

I know this isn't the case with the reflector (unless it was given like a 3 pixel range at this distance and 2 pixels here, 1 over there, etc.) since I've seen it trip at different lengths. Just thought I would mention it.
 

Tommy_G

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
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Location
Miami, FL
It could be possible if Falcos reflector tripped with the Blue sparks only and not hitting with the reflector or the other way around. Try to notice two reflectors if you use it close to the floor. It's a very small timing but if you use reflector right when you land, two come out. It doesn't really effect anything except maybe tripping rate. Test it out.
 

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
1,953
Location
Boone, NC
Since you mentioned it, I decided to test it:
There definantly does seem to be some validity to this, though the actual timing and/or hitbox seems to be different for every character.

For the few characters I tested, these are the hitboxes that seem to be more prone to tripping should you hit here.
Pit: Face.
Yoshi: Face.
C. Falcon: Shoulder.
Ganon: Chest/Stomach
Ice Climbers: One of them always trips. Always.

Again, this is SHFF.

Hope this helps :]
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
19,345
Ok I took zelda, link, meta knight, and ganondorf, and set them up so that I would hit them at the very bottom of their feet and at the middle of the head (meta knight I didn't aim at the head just the feet waiting on the smaller characters for later). From 0% I was able to trip them every single time in a row till the reflector did so much damage that they couldn't trip anymore. To make sure I was level with hitting the same spot I made a stage where they stood on a flat plane and me on a slope right next to the flat plane, so by walking up and down it I aim at different areas of the character.

So now I'm pretty sure there are areas of the characters body that you hit that trips them. Hitting the feet/angkle area seems to be the a location on all characters irrelvent of size. Again, not sure it's 100% of the time or if it's a near 100% chance of tripping them by hitting those areas.

Also the areas that you can hit to trip them I'm also pretty sure do move with the character as they bop up and down. When I was aiming at links head a few times he would bop down far enough that the reflector grazed the top of his head causing the yellow sparks that come out when an attack and hitbox of a person barely touch.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
19,345
If anyone thinks this doesn't have combo potential I think it does when the situation is correct. One idea I have (haven't tried it against anyone just CPUs) if you get knocked off the edge, have your second jump still and the person your facing is on the edge of stage. You can get under the stage a little than jump up and use your reflector. If you time it right the priorty of the attack should override any attacks they are trying, trip them and the forward momentum of the jump you are in would carry you right in front of them which from there you could probably chase them down if they roll or follow up with an attack like the jab combo.
 

bulgarian_kid

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
32
^lol, the biggest thing that would come out of consistently being able to trip with reflector is an insane tech chase game for falco. And I mean truely insane.
 

Tommy_G

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
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Location
Miami, FL
Crystal I was playing with Falcos reflector and I saw that it was a specific distance away from the opponent that trips them every time; however, you look like you did more experimenting than I did. If you slow down Falco's reflector animation, you can see there's a part where the shine pushes out farther than just blinking in and out. It's about a little more the 1/2 of the way out(2/3 if I had to guess). The double reflector thing's tripping rate is still unknown if it is different from the regular one.

Falco's tech chase game is amazing. If anyone can figure out when or how Falco's reflector trips, it would be an enormous help.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
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Crystal I was playing with Falcos reflector and I saw that it was a specific distance away from the opponent that trips them every time; however, you look like you did more experimenting than I did. If you slow down Falco's reflector animation, you can see there's a part where the shine pushes out farther than just blinking in and out. It's about a little more the 1/2 of the way out(2/3 if I had to guess). The double reflector thing's tripping rate is still unknown if it is different from the regular one.

Falco's tech chase game is amazing. If anyone can figure out when or how Falco's reflector trips, it would be an enormous help.

Actually I never really tried testing out distance till you mentioned it. I just tried doing it against meta knight, kirby, ganondorf and Falco for about 10 minutes each on both walking and standing, but I couldn't come up with anything really consistant in the trip rate except for close to falco, basically somewhere around the contact point of when he first kicks the reflector. Somewhere in that distance was able to get really good results on the amount of tripping.

I finally managed to see that double layed reflector. I'll start testing that out.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
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I tried using the double layered reflector on marth, pikachu and diddy kong and everything seemed to be tripping at pretty much the same rate as a regular shine when falling.

If the idea I had is right about having to hit certain sections of the body and and distance is also a factor maybe the hitbox of the reflector gets increases and decreases in size. Fluke's thread had something similar regarding either if links bombs are reflected or explode.
 

Fluke

Smash Journeyman
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Dec 12, 2007
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Syd, Australia
After finally finishing my exams, I might have time to test stuff and update the shine thread/guide.

I would test this too, but I think I need to learn how to play falco again (it's been so dam long since I last touched my wii: ~2months)
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
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19,345
You finish exams, I start a new semester. Found something that looks promising. When someone enters the landing animation from falling there seems to be a time period around there where you can trip them.
 

Fluke

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 12, 2007
Messages
431
Location
Syd, Australia
Looks indeed promising, and logical too. Hitting someone legs as they land tends to increase their chance to lose their balance in real life, so maybe they logically implemented it?


Anyway, I updated my shine thread, and also linked it to this thread. Please RATE my thread guys :D
Anymore feedback/discussion you have is most welcome to be posted there as well.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
It trips when you hit with the furthest extent of the hitbox.
 
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