A SoNiC GuIdE -5/07/09 - Some interesting frame data

[lil cj]

This is a great thread!!!
Thanks....jus picked Sonic back up
Trying get good with him and this really helped

 

[Browny]

so yeah this is what happens when you put the images over the top of each other... I still need a new way to highlight it though, maybe ill make it a lighter region :/

 

[infomon]

That's awesome!

 

[da K.I.D.]

sickkkk...

 

[Tenki]

oh man.

that's amazing.

go for it lol.

For reference though, you should make a sort of 'hurtbox' for Sandbag too. I'm not 100% on this but I think Sandbag's 'hurtbox' might be 'disjointed' from his graphic... lol

Also keep in mind that Sonic's hitboxes aren't rectangular either - well, like if you try to make the hitboxes, don't make them extend too far vertically/horizontally/whatever direction the attack is 'meant' to face lol.

 

[Browny]

determining sandbags side hurtbox is very easy by spacing an fsmash such that it sparks... but i got no idea how to determine the burtbox above and below it. If anyone knows which characters have dsmashes/dtilts/usmashes that hit below low-platforms like battlefield or lylat, let me know so i can save a bit of time when i try to do a bit more tonight

and making hitboxes not rectangular is gonna be next to impossible. ill need at least 8 reference points, instead of 4 and its seriously hard to space attacks over and over again until you get them to spark, then screenshot at the same time lol

 

[da K.I.D.]

I believe in you!!!

 

[Chis]

The other character boards have extremely comprehensive and well done guides. Maybe we can borrow a few ideas from them?

 

[Tucker!]

This was a good read for me, i already knew most of the stuff but i found out one or two new things, another thing i dont see anyone talking about is the being course gayed, when i spring and i get caught under the level i wall kick to the edge and survive, im kinda sad no one else mentions that because wall kicking with sonic is amazing, you can do a spin shot and if you go to low just wall kick, it cancels all lag on spin shotting and keeps you alive, sonic is good if you play the right mind games and just because he doesnt have priority doesnt mean he doesnt have the ability to beat most people, ive had it to where my down air hit olimar out of his up smash, i about died when it happened cuz i never thought id see the day but it happened, i gotta a combo video coming out called going over the edge, its a compilation of all the tournament matches, play battles, and just me and my friends messing around, im kinda new to smash boards but im not a noob at this game, and i fancy myself as a darn good sonic player, so when i get my combo video up i hope everyone looks it up, even if you dont like it give me comments on it i could use your constructive criticism lol but seriously im on here to make friends and find other smash players out there who love the game for the fun of it and not just the competitiveness of the game, personally id rather have fun just messing around playing with my buds than i would trying to beat everyone to get a little bit of cash, so if anybody would talk to me no here, show me some of your vids im always down, im a nice person, and il only tell your bad if you talk like your the greatest. My name is tucks and watch out for me cuz im a deadly sonic player son =P lawl

 

[~TBS~]

This was a good read for me, i already knew most of the stuff but i found out one or two new things, another thing i dont see anyone talking about is the being course gayed, when i spring and i get caught under the level i wall kick to the edge and survive, im kinda sad no one else mentions that because wall kicking with sonic is amazing, you can do a spin shot and if you go to low just wall kick, it cancels all lag on spin shotting and keeps you alive, sonic is good if you play the right mind games and just because he doesnt have priority doesnt mean he doesnt have the ability to beat most people, ive had it to where my down air hit olimar out of his up smash, i about died when it happened cuz i never thought id see the day but it happened, i gotta a combo video coming out called going over the edge, its a compilation of all the tournament matches, play battles, and just me and my friends messing around, im kinda new to smash boards but im not a noob at this game, and i fancy myself as a darn good sonic player, so when i get my combo video up i hope everyone looks it up, even if you dont like it give me comments on it i could use your constructive criticism lol but seriously im on here to make friends and find other smash players out there who love the game for the fun of it and not just the competitiveness of the game, personally id rather have fun just messing around playing with my buds than i would trying to beat everyone to get a little bit of cash, so if anybody would talk to me no here, show me some of your vids im always down, im a nice person, and il only tell your bad if you talk like your the greatest. My name is tucks and watch out for me cuz im a deadly sonic player son =P lawl

Wall of text! Just joking. whats up Tucker? good to see another Sonic face. just make sure to read all of the stickies and learn new things.

 

[infomon]

Yeah, and break up your posts into sentences.

I'm looking forward to your combo vid.....

 

[Camalange]

Welcome aboard Tucker.

Are we planning on making a new Thread Index soon? It seems like it's time.

 

[Browny]

using these 3 pics, i determine the extent of sandbags hurtbox

http://i44.tinypic.com/33lchgw.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/11ah5wj.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/2vkx550.jpg

to come up with this

So what does this mean... Sandbags hurtbox isnt disjointed at all :/ But then how does sonics fsmash extend this far beyond the animation?

Does this look like a lot of range?

nope, the attack really does extend this far beyond the fsmash

(This is as close as humanly possible i can get snake to move forward before the attack hits)

If anyone cares... the pics i used for comparisons were shot from the exact same distance + angle. I have a pretty foolproof way of measuring this, i can get the range of snakes utilt against various characters accurate to +/- 2 pixels

 

[da K.I.D.]

good shiz son

 

[HyperSuperSonictheHedgehog]

This is amazing. Dedication to the highest level huh?
BTW to the new guy... Tucker is it? Welcome, and you sound like me lol. Except for the punctuation... work on that. Remember what the teachers say! "Paragraphs make reading a pleasure." And so do full stops.

Back on topic though... WOWOWOWOW. That is seriously good stuff. Its definitely worth continuing. Now I know why Sonic's Fsmash is longer then Lucarios.

Hmm... but doesn't this suggest that Sonic's programming into the game was indeed, rushed?

 

[da K.I.D.]

these pics of sonics f-smash make the hitbox look slightly more disjointed than what it looks like in your thread DJ... thats what i meant when i said i thought the circles were too small.

 

[Browny]

all of my pics used some sort of conservative estimate. I aint gonna have ******* criticising my stuff because I made the hitboxes look a little big. In cases such as the fsmash, I had to take away a few pixels from the range since the attack sparked, I dont know how many I should have (I took away 4 pixels from the very centre of the spark). Its a lot easier to determine true range using sparks than it is when the attack hits, since the enemy may move ever so slighly as the attack connects. Maybe i could afford to make it a little bigger but i think its close enough, its not as if any of my other pictures I can honestly say are accurate +/- about 2 pixels

 

[infomon]

score 1 for the dj

 

[Chis]

The Sonic in the second picture looks bigger then the one in the first.

No offence dj.

 

[Browny]

yeah it is, thats why i didnt use the Final destination pic as my reference. However it is the only picture i have that has a spark on it so its much more clearler than the other method i used which is more complicated to explain

have fun trying to locate the edge on this lol

its a lot harder than you think

anyway i could explain it further, but i cbf. I used about 5 reference pics per attack so you wont be able to do it from that one alone, and im not going to post + explain the others.
Edit- I will explain + fix this later tonight, the pic may be wrong

 

[da K.I.D.]

welp, you got me beat...

never again shall I doubt you.

 

[SonicX580]

Hey guys I got a question will it help if I bring MK's or anybody elses frame data to compare to Sonic's frame data?

 

[Browny]

Yep its just as i thought... The picture I have used in the hitbox thread on the fsmash is showing the fsmash the instant the attack connects, However the reference pictures i used to determine the range, all by coincidence were snapshots taken 1 frame after the attack has hit. Its quite obvious in the different animation in the attack. The final destination picture makes it look like the fsmash has a large disjoint, however that is because Sonic has already begun to draw his fist back.

Good thing you pointed that out Chis lol. Im pretty sure the rest of my pictures are correct though, they were all taken on the same frame.

 

[Tenki]

Hey guys I got a question will it help if I bring MK's or anybody elses frame data to compare to Sonic's frame data?

We already know where to look if we want MK's frame data.

If you wanna be useful, go get me Olimar's frame data.

:devil:

Yep its just as i thought... The picture I have used in the hitbox thread on the fsmash is showing the fsmash the instant the attack connects, However the reference pictures i used to determine the range, all by coincidence were snapshots taken 1 frame after the attack has hit. Its quite obvious in the different animation in the attack. The final destination picture makes it look like the fsmash has a large disjoint, however that is because Sonic has already begun to draw his fist back.

Good thing you pointed that out Chis lol. Im pretty sure the rest of my pictures are correct though, they were all taken on the same frame.

ayy. I thought they were kind of ... very disjoint 9_9;

 

[SonicX580]

We already know where to look if we want MK's frame data.

If you wanna be useful, go get me Olimar's frame data.

:devil:



ayy. I thought they were kind of ... very disjoint 9_9;

Fine I'll get your data but don't boss me around just tell me which data to get.

 

[SonicX580]

Tenki here is your order *gives him the frame data* the Olimar's frame data was every hard to get http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=158890&highlight=Olimar%27s+Frame+Data is there any thing else?

 

[ROOOOY!]

There was no frame data in that thread.

Though it was an interesting read.

 

[SonicX580]

There was no frame data in that thread.

Though it was an interesting read.

I know but at least it was close enough.

 

[Tenki]

There was no frame data in that thread.

Correct. There was no frame data in that thread, and it wasn't close to frame data at all.

Though, part of the reason I wanted frame data for was answered in the Sonic/Olimar matchup discussion - Sonic is fast enough to grab/attack Olimar between his grabs.

Now, if there was info for smashes...

 

[SonicX580]

Sonic can spam f-smash to take out throwing pikmin.

EDIT: Olimar has no frame data they haven't made it.

 

[~TBS~]

Sonic can spam f-smash to take out throwing pikmin.

Not exactly. While you are trying to hit the Pikmin he throws at you, that leaves you open. He will punish you for even trying something like that.

 

[SonicX580]

Not exactly. While you are trying to hit the Pikmin he throws at you, that leaves you open. He will punish you for even trying something like that.

Really? then the oilmars were wrong I heard this in there boards looking for their data.

 

[~TBS~]

They are pulling you into a trap. While, yes you can kill the Pikmin with the Fsmash (if its not a purple) it's better to avoid it. You will be open to their counterattack.

 

[SonicX580]

They are pulling you into a trap. While, yes you can kill the Pikmin with the Fsmash (if its not a purple) it's better to avoid it. You will be open to their counterattack.

I knew it was a lie I tried it before luckly both of us killed each other at the same time.

 

[Tenki]

you're better off jumping and doing N-air anyway lol.

At least you can either jump out of harm's way and kill them or jump towards Olimar and counter attack (if he's open).

 

[SonicX580]

you're better off jumping and doing N-air anyway lol.

At least you can either jump out of harm's way and kill them or jump towards Olimar and counter attack (if he's open).

I got a question when oilmar grabs you do you attack the pikmin or what?

 

[~TBS~]

Ummm...I dunno. I punish with ASC or run away. I guess you can hit them, though.

 

[SonicX580]

Ummm...I dunno. I punish with ASC or run away. I guess you can hit them, though.

Maybe but I dunno I thought that the moves would clang or something.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Pikmin have god awful priority, most if not all of Sonic's attacks overpower them, even jab.

It's just hard to space and do it right because you're getting Pikmin spammed at your face quickly.

I find his non-Pikmin moves (utilt, nair, dtilt etc) to have a lot more priority and harder to deal with.

Fsmash at least has punishable ending lag where he's helpless.

 

[Tenki]

I got a question when oilmar grabs you do you attack the pikmin or what?

you jump towards olimar+attack, or you run/foxtrot back, then run back in after the grab reaches max distance.

If you touch the Pikmin while it's moving out, you'll get grabbed, silly.