A Request to All Tournament-Level Meta Knight Users Regarding Infinate Cape...

[Krnxmatt7]

I wouldn't mind if someone used it to be like "Yeah lol". But it would be kind of annoying if someone used it like "I can do this and you can't " to escape a lot of attacks.

I'm kind of on both sides on acceptable/banned, but it would take a real meannie (yeah, I went there) to keep on abusing this.

 

[DFEAR]

Um, gotta go with Yuna on this one, Stalling, Invincibility, whatever; in a nutshell, it's a mobile, invisible, infinite, attack-out-of spotdodge from hell. It's going to be banned for some reason or another.

yep just like exodia O____O, dnt even chance against that fellow =P.

but IDC doesnt prove useful other than to stall and approach (possibly win the match if timed) but still abused or not, there WILL be people using it and it WILL get banned once officials see the real advantages of this o.o

 

[Locuan]

Which is no better...

Using it as an approach sets up a guessing game, where your opponent has to guess when you're going to attack, and you have all day to launch the attack. If they guess too late, your attack goes through without resistant, if they guess too early you can punish them in lag frames. 1 (number of minutes remaining x 60 x 2 (at least)). Those are aweful odds, so virtually every attack is guaranteed with this approach when used properly.

Either way I have only used it like once in a match. . There are way more ways to approach and opponent first of all because you can punish any error they do etc. Doing this tech every time to approach is kind of not necessary especially for MK.

Hard, but not impossible, people are already holding it for 2 minutes+, which is all you really need to finish off a match.

Yeah you are able to hold that to end a match. I just really don't see it done for that long, although I believe you.

This is crazy, I know if I wanted to I could hold it for 2+ minutes, but really if you were invisible but not invincible then maybe this tech wouldn't be that bad at all. Considering that you can be invisible and invincible this AT won't last long on the tournament scene.

 

[OldSchool]

Oh man, smash is gonna turn into MvC2!

 

[Nokon]

how long will it take the back room to actually ban this tech?

 

[Brightside6382]

* Infinite Rising Pound
* Infinite Wall Bombing
* ICs Freeze Glitch
* Soul Stunner Glitch (when items were allowed)
* Various infinites for stalling purposes
* The Invincibility Glitches (which oddly enough work a lot like this one) for Neji, Awakened Hinata and Tsunade in the Naruto: Gekitou Ninja Taisen series

And probably more.


1) But you always have the same animation with the same amount of invincibility. I will always know when I can hit you again after a spotdodge.
2) No it's not. Just because you can't do it well doesn't mean it is. Also, alternate controller setups.

Many of those techs were banned for stalling purposes only. I don't see why we can't do the same for this.

It's not even that useful to be honest. Try to apply it to a real match urself and you will find that you just get ***** out of it 75% of the time.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Many of those techs were banned for stalling purposes only. I don't see why we can't do the same for this.

Because it'll make MK Akuma tier....

It's not even that useful to be honest. Try to apply it to a real match urself and you will find that you just get ***** out of it 75% of the time.

LOL

Seriously, what in the name of all that exists could possibly lead you to that conclusion?

You'll only get ***** out of it if it's blocked/dodged (which requires that you predict the attack, and if you predict wrong, you get punished, because MK has all day to remain in position to do that the possibility is so small it's not worth discussing) or you whiff (which happens, how often with tournament level players?).

The only way you get ***** out of it if you're bad at it, end of story.

 

[UnSaxon51]

It really is broken, and if you don't think it is, you're either a MK player that can't win without it, or you're just really dumb....

OK, just to clarify, I hardly ever use the cape at all, and when I do, it's usually as a surprise tactic or an alternate recovery.
Admittedly, I'm not a professional or high-level tournament player, but I'm competent enough to give a good fight.

I'm not dumb, but I will admit that I might be defending a technique I don't understand fully.
To my understanding, there are three major applications of the cape:

1. As an approach: The one I use most often, because yes, it is an invisible, unpredictable movement. However, the startup frames provide NO invincibility. I've been hit out of the start of this move by... well, lots of stuff. Very useful, but not any moreso than, say, Pikachu's Quick Attack Cancel.

2. As an attack: Yes it's an instantaneous attack that comes from nowhere. But if it misses or is shielded, the lag is retardedly punishable. Again, useful, but not broken.

3. As a ledgestall: The one I believe we're talking about. If I understand correctly, this involves edge-grabbing, letting go, then immediately caping to grab the edge again, providing a continuous, nigh-invulnerable edgehog. I acknowledge this is very useful, and can be used to stall infinitely. However, to do this for any length of time is both difficult and tiring (though not impossible). Also, there is a certain amount of risk involved. If you mess up even once or if someone else manages to get a ledge grab, you pretty much are doomed to fall to your death.

If I'm misunderstanding anything, please clarify and I'll gladly own up to being misinformed. And, as I stated in my first post, if this technique does get abused to the point of being broken, I fully agree that it should be banned. MK players shouldn't need to rely on a stall technique.

 

[adumbrodeus]

1. As an approach: The one I use most often, because yes, it is an invisible, unpredictable movement. However, the startup frames provide NO invincibility. I've been hit out of the start of this move by... well, lots of stuff. Very useful, but not any moreso than, say, Pikachu's Quick Attack Cancel.

So, if I use it at the opposite end of the stage, who can punish it? Rob? yeah, that's about it. Then you approach with it, or stall.

2. As an attack: Yes it's an instantaneous attack that comes from nowhere. But if it misses or is shielded, the lag is retardedly punishable. Again, useful, but not broken.

Lol, yeah it is broken, no tournament level player is gonna miss, period. If he can stay in it forever... how the heck do you expect to predict the one time that he's actually gonna use the attack? He can use this to punish vulnerability frames, so if you guess wrong even once... you eat the attack.

Tell me that isn't broken, seriously. If you don't, play somebody who can do it.

3. As a ledgestall: The one I believe we're talking about. If I understand correctly, this involves edge-grabbing, letting go, then immediately caping to grab the edge again, providing a continuous, nigh-invulnerable edgehog. I acknowledge this is very useful, and can be used to stall infinitely. However, to do this for any length of time is both difficult and tiring (though not impossible). Also, there is a certain amount of risk involved. If you mess up even once or if someone else manages to get a ledge grab, you pretty much are doomed to fall to your death.

Nah, we weren't talking about this at all. The extension technique was mentioned in that it was easy to ledgegrab from it, which would easily prevent infinite ledgestalling, nothing else.

 

[MisterMoo]

This tech is gonna be banned.... It's just not fair....

 

[UnSaxon51]

OK, I rescind all my previous statements because I just saw what we are ACTUALLY talking about.

Holy **** that's broken and should definitely be banned.

 

[PEEF!]

Guys, stall tactics is NOT the only reason this will most likely be banned; the fact that it's a near-flawless approach

This is like the shattiest approach that MK has. You lag terribad. Its not good at all. Show me u completely destroying someone with it and I will believe you. Until then, its a trashworthy approach. Even if you hit them with the attack, they can always forward smash you. Its not even that fantastic...

 

[Quez256]

This is like the shattiest approach that MK has. You lag terribad. Its not good at all. Show me u completely destroying someone with it and I will believe you. Until then, its a trashworthy approach. Even if you hit them with the attack, they can always forward smash you. Its not even that fantastic...

Ahem, assuming you don't always attack out of it, it can most likely be canceled into a Grab/Smash/Tornado/etc. Imagine a fight that consists solely on being ping-ponged back & forth across the stage by a MK spamming dsmash. I'd know about this since I'm probably one of the few MK users who actually found a use for DC (i.e. accelerated landing, edgehogging) before this tech was discovered.

I'm currently lacking a functional computer, so excuse me for not being able to provide any videos.

Edit: I said near-flawless, not perfect -.-

 

[Crizthakidd]

i used it today on a real match to edgehog someone. lol i like traveling with it. how about if u see someone doing it for more then 15 secs you call a ref or just tell the guy to stop like honestly if ur stalling 7 mins then quit smash. i understand stalling the last minute cuz some matches cant have one player ko another. but to get a quick hit and then down b the rest of the match? dont play this game then. thats not even playing2win.

on a side note who can actually Do it for a minute, i get like 15 secs then im done

 

[adumbrodeus]

This is like the shattiest approach that MK has. You lag terribad. Its not good at all. Show me u completely destroying someone with it and I will believe you. Until then, its a trashworthy approach. Even if you hit them with the attack, they can always forward smash you. Its not even that fantastic...

post-lagging doesn't matter much if you're never going to miss/be blocked. It also has no detectable start-up lag once you're invisible and invincible.

i used it today on a real match to edgehog someone. lol i like traveling with it. how about if u see someone doing it for more then 15 secs you call a ref or just tell the guy to stop like honestly if ur stalling 7 mins then quit smash. i understand stalling the last minute cuz some matches cant have one player ko another. but to get a quick hit and then down b the rest of the match? dont play this game then. thats not even playing2win.

on a side note who can actually Do it for a minute, i get like 15 secs then im done

I't definately playing to win, that's why this tech MUST be banned.

Oh, and I can do it for about a minute.

 

[Terranrox]

"In a offline game, a player can cheat all he wants and there are no consequences. It's no big deal, because he's only really only cheating himself out of the total gaming experience." -Watarai aka Albiero (.hack//AI_buster//kamui//111)

I like this quote for these situations...
but I hope these rules at least become mores for the MK users including myself...

 

[adumbrodeus]

"In a offline game, a player can cheat all he wants and there are no consequences. It's no big deal, because he's only really only cheating himself out of the total gaming experience." -Watarai aka Albiero (.hack//AI_buster//kamui//111)

I like this quote for these situations...
but I hope these rules at least become mores for the MK users including myself...

But this isn't cheating, there's no rule against it yet.

 

[Terranrox]

But this isn't cheating, there's no rule against it yet.

true but don't you think your taking the fun out of the game and also feel guilty of spamming a broken move to the point as if you were cheating?

 

[adumbrodeus]

true but don't you think your taking the fun out of the game and also feel guilty of spamming a broken move to the point as if you were cheating?

No, I think it's taking the fun out of the game to hold back from using any legal method to win, and an insult to my opponent.


If it's against the rules, that's a different story.

 

[M@v]

let me ask this as a MK secondary: do you mainers REALLY need this to win? Isnt MK good enough already for goodness sakes?! This move makes Metaknight broken. Its really sad if you believe you need glitches to win, not to mention on an amazing character already.

 

[err]

how long will it take the back room to actually ban this tech?

why fking wait for the back room? the competent community has already realized it should be banned. you're telling me we need to wait for the SBR (peace be upon them) to proclaim this as a universally banned technique?

the reality is.. many smashers here are wanting to see how this plays out at a tournament or two before it is banned. it's like slowing down to look at a car accident when you could just speed on past and make that green light. But noooooooo, you wanted to see how bad it is

(similar analogy:= "Miracle of Life" videos)



i guess the real point of my post is to get more folks to man up and start making their own decisions. **** the SBR, they shouldn't decide everything. there are plenty of rational people who aren't in SBR that can tell this thing is broken, we all want it to be banned, some ppl want MK to be banned (that won't happen).

sound bitter? i am. would love to be able to read SBR boards. I think it should be a given for anyone over the age of 20~21 who's held an account for more than 2 years. I don't need the blue name, or even posting privileges (they could limit it to 2/day .. just enough to speak up on one issue)

But hanging in Brawl Tactical is like bein "down here in the office with the little starving kids..." people are trying their darndest to find some "AT" like there will be some magic bullet that will sink all the boring campy play and kick up the hitstun.

(similar to how people in the world are also hoping that "someone will come along and invent something" to replace oil, or make it cheaper to produce, well guess what NO THEY F***KING WONT!! We're screwed, accept it.)


im past the point in my life where i should even be playing games (well, i'll never quit melee ) and yeah i do suck and i realize that placing at a tournament is something i will never do even in my wettest dreams. but i love melee, love how gripping all of those finals matches were.. how i'd queue up all 5 from a set and grab a bowl of cereal and just get blown away by how near-perfect the best of the best were.

Who even watches Brawl finals?? Azen/M2K was a ****ing nightmare. DSF/Forward was similarly just as turdy.. did anyone see how that ended?? a tricky C4 and Forward goes shooting to the heavens! lawlin my bawls off.

Wario is **** in this game.. i could have told you that when i was playing in february. then what happens: smashers start placing high with Wario and someone started *****ing about him being an over-used top tier on Brawl Tactical and i'm thinking "Whaaaat?" He's exciting to watch, and fun to play as... he at least plays like a somewhat traditional smash character. not overly juiced with quantum tilts like snake. yea the bike is a bit much but anyway..

I generally load a brawl video, see that "omfg this is 4 minutes long?! THEY HAVE 3 STOCK!!" close it load up pornkolt and get on with my day


Good day, sir!

 

[PEEF!]

i guess the real point of my post is to get more folks to man up and start making their own decisions.

OK, im making my own decisions. How bout this. It should not be banned, and I will stand for it not being banned until it becomes universally accepted as a legit tactic, which it eventually will.
=]

 

[adumbrodeus]

OK, im making my own decisions. How bout this. It should not be banned, and I will stand for it not being banned until it becomes universally accepted as a legit tactic, which it eventually will.
=]

No it won't. It's an Akuma move, it shuts down the entire cast. It will be banned.

 

[err]

OK, im making my own decisions. How bout this. It should not be banned, and I will stand for it not being banned until it becomes universally accepted as a legit tactic, which it eventually will.
=]

and when the SBR tries to shut you down man, you just stick it in their face! yeah!



.. hm root beer still fucccks me up i guess..

well i think it should be legal for a few tourneys, then people can see how nasty it is then as a community we'll just ban the **** out of it

 

[Eternak]

As far as i manage to read almost every single person who wants it ban its cause:
1# they Hate MK User since MK its already Broken as it is.
2# They nearly use MK or didn't like it at all since they like low mid tier chars.
3#are snake users Lol im jking here..Lol

now i accept to ban the tech stallin for over than 3 secs. 3 secs manage any MK user tu pullout any strategy in mind as for mindgame, runaway from granades (snake) Dah, or edgeguarding w/e your mind decides.But i already implement this AT to my metagame for runaway occasion as for mindgames and even reach the otherside to edgehog faster and do edguarding.
Now as for those who exploit it on a stallin state they dont belong to use MK compeitive since that would be a shame for all MK users around.

 

[Yuna]

As far as i manage to read almost every single person who wants it ban its cause:
1# they Hate MK User since MK its already Broken as it is.
2# They nearly use MK or didn't like it at all since they like low mid tier chars.
3#are snake users Lol im jking here..Lol

1) Wrong
2) Wrong
3) Wrong

now i accept to ban the tech stallin for over than 3 secs. 3 secs manage any MK user tu pullout any strategy in mind as for mindgame, runaway from granades (snake) Dah, or edgeguarding w/e your mind decides.But i already implement this AT to my metagame for runaway occasion as for mindgames and even reach the otherside to edgehog faster and do edguarding.
Now as for those who exploit it on a stallin state they dont belong to use MK compeitive since that would be a shame for all MK users around.

Old. Refuted. Opinion. Difficulty to enforce. Stopwatches. Cookies.

 

[Eternak]

1) Wrong
2) Wrong
3) Wrong


Old. Refuted. Opinion. Difficulty to enforce. Stopwatches. Cookies.

Lol *Looks to Yuna sigs* Keep Loling.

 

[Quez256]

As far as i manage to read almost every single person who wants it ban its cause:
1# they Hate MK User since MK its already Broken as it is.
2# They nearly use MK or didn't like it at all since they like low mid tier chars.
3#are snake users Lol im jking here..Lol

now i accept to ban the tech stallin for over than 3 secs. 3 secs manage any MK user tu pullout any strategy in mind as for mindgame, runaway from granades (snake) Dah, or edgeguarding w/e your mind decides.But i already implement this AT to my metagame for runaway occasion as for mindgames and even reach the otherside to edgehog faster and do edguarding.
Now as for those who exploit it on a stallin state they dont belong to use MK compeitive since that would be a shame for all MK users around.

4) They main MK and are sensible enough to see how broken the tech is and can **** well win a fight without it.

 

[acv]

people either need to read the original thread or at least try it so you can stop exagerating.

 

[Eternak]

Now as for those who exploit it on a stallin state they dont belong to use MK compeitive since that would be a shame for all MK users around.

4) They main MK and are sensible enough to see how broken the tech is and can **** well win a fight without it.

im sure im not of those you name. if it is the case you are plotting.

 

[adumbrodeus]

im sure im not of those you name. if it is the case you are plotting.

5. They main other characters and recognize how broken this tech is.
6. They used to main other characters but now main MK because they recognize how broken this tech is. *raises hand*


And you don't fall into category #4 because it seems you're not sensible enough, pity.

I like how you utilize on Ad hominem fallacies instead of bothering to look at the pages of explination on how broken this technique is and try to refute them, which you should be able to do if you're correct.

 

[Quez256]

Just noting those that you left out of your "people who want the tech banned"

 

[Eternak]

in fact its really broken but not as for to be banned since it could be the anti projectile spam MK has weakness against.But anyways in fact the majority are not mk users since its mentality of a I can win in tournament play with mid tier based chars so this will banned otherwise unless people in fact things its playable enough and get used to it.

 

[adumbrodeus]

in fact its really broken but not as for to be banned since it could be the anti projectile spam MK has weakness against.But anyways in fact the majority are not mk users since its mentality of a I can win in tournament play with mid tier based chars so this will banned otherwise unless people in fact things its playable enough and get used to it.

Not broken enough to be banned?!

It's an approach which shuts down the entire cast, if that's not broken enough to be banned, I don't know what is.


Lol, and it could be the anti-projectile spam, yeah, that's part of the point. The other point is, barring pure luck, it's uncounterable.

 

[Eternak]

the only part of the AT that is uncounterable its the stallin, for the approches theres hell lots ofd counters since 1# if he does attack out of the Invisibility the opponent just shield grab w/e he wants. Snakes users Just shields and on attacking lag MK has Utilt them easily as for any other char same tactic. the main problem here is for the stallin . Everyone here is using the invisibility as an excuse to ban it. but since now you can travel farther than the normal 1 now everyone is scared and comes here to zomg ban it now he can move freely outside or inside attack range. but nobody take the time to just counter it since it is counterable. what it is not counterable its the stallin. So play against someone who dont stall and youll see what i mean.

 

[Magus420]

for the approches theres hell lots ofd counters since 1# if he does attack out of the Invisibility the opponent just shield grab w/e he wants. Snakes users Just shields and on attacking lag MK has Utilt them easily as for any other char same tactic.

How do you do the infinite shield glitch? Sounds pretty useful.

 

[Yuna]

How do you do the infinite shield glitch? Sounds pretty useful.

What? You mean you didn't know?

 

[adumbrodeus]

the only part of the AT that is uncounterable its the stallin, for the approches theres hell lots ofd counters since 1# if he does attack out of the Invisibility the opponent just shield grab w/e he wants.

Lol, ok, so how do you plan on predicting when MK is gonna attack?

Unlike the normal version of the move, there are no indicators prior to the appearance of the hitbox, and he can stay in this state indefinitely.


Unless you know about some infinite shield glitch, if so, please tell me how to do it.

 

[Eternak]

Lol, ok, so how do you plan on predicting when MK is gonna attack?

Unlike the normal version of the move, there are no indicators prior to the appearance of the hitbox, and he can stay in this state indefinitely.


Unless you know about some infinite shield glitch, if so, please tell me how to do it.

how do i predict it? as easy as setting rules for time limit during invisibility. 3 secs or your DQed.
he wont be able to stall at all so he just got at least 3 secs to do whatever and your opponent would be ready for that. but either way here at the very end the people who think are in command of tournament game like games would ban it for sure. anyway ill enjoy with or without it.

Edit: I tested it the traveling time and on and constant basis he has 2 secs to reach from side to side of FD, that means 3 secs time can be applied, since you can control it to move F,B etc so it is viable to allow it as that and players would be already ready to counter or do whatever in those 3 secs motion of the movement. and also lets MK players can either approach or get away from projectiles.

 

[Dojo]

Sooo

Let's do it for 2.5 seconds.
Appear safely.
Do it for another 2.5 seconds.
Appear safely.
Another 2.5 seconds.
Appear safely.
Repeat?