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a NEW tier list?

M

M3tr01D

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 7, 2005
Messages
1,345
Location
Olympia, WA
Volrec said:
For real, there are no more Ness's. Quickman is gone, no one feels like Maining him because everyone wants Pikachu and Kirby
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Um, no one feels like maining him because you toss him off the edge and he dies easier then link, except that link is also way more fun to play. Honestly though how many good players main pika or kirby? I can think of like 5 or 6 maybe, but I dunno if it is even that many.
 
Thino

Thino

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
Messages
4,845
Location
Mountain View, CA
ot : from what i've seen from your vids vs dylan, your ness isnt cheap , i swear your ness isnt cheap ive seen worse
 
greenblob

greenblob

Smash Lord
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
1,632
Location
SF Bay Area
M3tr01D said:
Um, no one feels like maining him because you toss him off the edge and he dies easier then link, except that link is also way more fun to play. Honestly though how many good players main pika or kirby? I can think of like 5 or 6 maybe, but I dunno if it is even that many.
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Hm... Ness's up B goes extremely far and he's virtually invincible during it. Only Pika would be able to eat the PK thunder against a decent Ness and he can also sweet-spot the ledge, so I wouldn't say that his recovery is horrible.
 
O

okaygo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Messages
244
I think the big problem is here is this, every character is good when used right...

If you want to get technical about things, look at ant-d's notes on frame specific stuff...
 
S

Skivich

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
25
I believe okavgo said it best any character is great if you know them well. As a friend once said to me "son, you have to treat your gun ( or smash character) like ur p-enis, keep it clean and always ready to go" or maybe i just heard wrong... anyway you can destroy as any character as long as u maintain control and a good flow of moves to bring forth destruction.
 
M

M3tr01D

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 7, 2005
Messages
1,345
Location
Olympia, WA
greenblob said:
Hm... Ness's up B goes extremely far and he's virtually invincible during it. Only Pika would be able to eat the PK thunder against a decent Ness and he can also sweet-spot the ledge, so I wouldn't say that his recovery is horrible.
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except when he lands he sits there for like 3 seconds. All you have to do is use an attack the covers the sweet spot if he doesn't do that, and then hit him when he lands. It is very easy. After the first like half second of his up b he can get hit out by nearly anything as well.
 
N

nuro

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 1, 2006
Messages
1,101
Location
Somerville/Lowell, Massachusetts USA
BHLMRO said:


Tier list's DO matter for low and high tier tournaments. Im wanting to make sure if were going to change it before one of my tournaments which will be low tier.
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sry i didnt reply to this yet but why did bum get 4th in mlg or why can chudat beat peoples hightiers with chacters like pika or g&w

tiers were only made by mods because they thought they knew what they were talking about at that time and mods were usually setting up those tournies so they thought of low tiers.

ask any pro they will tell u they dont believe in tiers. besides im talking about melee ssb64 is completely different story since almost all the characters are god like making it very even. i always see characters like link or samus beat the heck out of pika or whatever all the time. even if pika is the best u need to have skill more than anything to win. i kind of like low tier tournies for the fact that it shows who has the most skills with the characters most people dont use.

Instead of lowtier it should be called Under Used characters.
 
greenblob

greenblob

Smash Lord
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
1,632
Location
SF Bay Area
nuro said:
sry i didnt reply to this yet but why did bum get 4th in mlg or why can chudat beat peoples hightiers with chacters like pika or g&w

tiers were only made by mods because they thought they knew what they were talking about at that time and mods were usually setting up those tournies so they thought of low tiers.

ask any pro they will tell u they dont believe in tiers. besides im talking about melee ssb64 is completely different story since almost all the characters are god like making it very even. i always see characters like link or samus beat the heck out of pika or whatever all the time. even if pika is the best u need to have skill more than anything to win. i kind of like low tier tournies for the fact that it shows who has the most skills with the characters most people dont use.

Instead of lowtier it should be called Under Used characters.
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A 20-year-old on a bike can beat a 3-year-old on a car in a race. The same cannot be said about two 20-year-olds. At the metagame, a Pika will beat a Samus.
 
O

okaygo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Messages
244
M3tr01D said:
I kind of like that example because even then the 3 year old might still reach the pedal and win.
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That has nothing to do with skill though. All characters in Smash Brothers are pretty equal, some require a different skill set to play. It really depends on the player.

QUESTION time: Does a high tier tournament mean we all sit in a circle and play Kirby and Peekachew dittos while crying about cheapness?
 
Fireblaster

Fireblaster

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 17, 2003
Messages
1,859
Location
Storrs, Connecticut
M3tr01D said:
I kind of like that example because even then the 3 year old might still reach the pedal and win.
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That doesn't make sense, the child cannot steer at all and will crash very soon into the race. Even if the car's tires are perfectly aligned forward, the car will always go to one of the sides and crash.
 
K

Kami

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
Messages
42
nuro said:
sry i didnt reply to this yet but why did bum get 4th in mlg or why can chudat beat peoples hightiers with chacters like pika or g&w

tiers were only made by mods because they thought they knew what they were talking about at that time and mods were usually setting up those tournies so they thought of low tiers.

ask any pro they will tell u they dont believe in tiers. besides im talking about melee ssb64 is completely different story since almost all the characters are god like making it very even. i always see characters like link or samus beat the heck out of pika or whatever all the time. even if pika is the best u need to have skill more than anything to win. i kind of like low tier tournies for the fact that it shows who has the most skills with the characters most people dont use.

Instead of lowtier it should be called Under Used characters.
Click to expand...
This is so ******** on so many counts.

Okay, so we'll start calling low tier "Under Used (sic) characters".

How does that change anything? They're still classified the exact same way in the exact same brackets. You can rest easy, though, they're not low-tier. They're "Under Used characters". The rest of them are "Used characters".

And yeah, a samus or a link can beat a pikachu. But they need substantially more skill to do this than say, a kirby player would. This is undeniable. You said it yourself, you need more skill than the other player to win if you're playing against a better character.
 
D

Demon_machinE

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 9, 2005
Messages
314
you need more skill than the other player to win if you're playing against a better character.
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Exactly. Tiers are corrospondant to the highest level of tournament play, assuming the two players have equal skill.

Someone more skilled than you at the game may be able to beat your pikachu with samus, but someone less skilled probably could not beat your samus with pikachu. And so on.

Skill always trumps tiers, but the closer the skill gap betweenst players, the more the tier list actually applies.

the tier list for ssb64 does not apply to anyone on this forum save a few people, sorry to say.

Why? Because none of you play super smash 64 at its highest level of tournament play, with a few exceptions of course (you know who you are). But lets face it, most of us here *including me, of course* suck. The tier list has no application to people that suck, thats the way I see it anyway.

Its difficult to have a tier list even for ssb considering most of its competition is online, which is inherently flawed due to delay and lag and all that. ''Fake smash'' as malva calls it, and Id have to agree. The DI possible online with a keyboard or GC controller messing with deadzone is pretty much as close as you can get to hacking the game.

Melee, however, has many tournaments and many oppourtunities to study the metagame and make a tier list. In Ssb64 the tier list is a joke.
 
N

nuro

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 1, 2006
Messages
1,101
Location
Somerville/Lowell, Massachusetts USA
Kami said:
This is so ******** on so many counts.

Okay, so we'll start calling low tier "Under Used (sic) characters".

How does that change anything? They're still classified the exact same way in the exact same brackets. You can rest easy, though, they're not low-tier. They're "Under Used characters". The rest of them are "Used characters".

And yeah, a samus or a link can beat a pikachu. But they need substantially more skill to do this than say, a kirby player would. This is undeniable. You said it yourself, you need more skill than the other player to win if you're playing against a better character.
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Good job. You just basically proved what I said.

Besides as the skill levels go up characters like kirby arent as good as they were before which is another reason these threads dum
 
Y

Yoshiking

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Messages
172
while people whisper on the side on how yoshi sucks lol. no j/k but yea okaygo that;s how it goes
 
D

Demon_machinE

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 9, 2005
Messages
314
YOshi rules because of the noise he makes when he upsmsahses.

Wooooahhhoooh!

ya im drunk deel with it nubs
 
O

okaygo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Messages
244
is thar a TiEr for maps, iF so dOeS a low tier tourny forcefully get stucked on sEcToR Z????????
 
N

nesshero

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 30, 2006
Messages
69
actual true tier list:

Yoshi
Pikachu
Fox

Ness
Captain Falcon
Kirby
Jigglypuff

Mario
DK
Luigi
Link
Samus
 
karterfreak

karterfreak

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
39
the only thing, and i mean the only thing i tend to agree with on that list, is ness being ahead of kirby, for the rest, it phails.
 
T

tomtom0919

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
45
Umm...Why the hell is Luigi lower than mario? He was an awesome fire move built in his up b, he can jump higher, and his fireballs go straight.
 
S

SmashThugZ

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
422
if Luigi's fireballs flew faster, then it might be better than Mario's
and I mean fast like.. like, Fox's lasers.
 
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