A new R.O.B. tech: Instant Gyro Cancelling

[KingChaos]

Hmmmmm, I can do it while standing still...I think? I go from Gyro charge animation directly into dtilt. No lag/delay, just immediate dtilt from the gyro charge animation.

Is that doing it right?

If I try to do it out of a dash, I just end up grabbing or spotdodging/rolling. Can't seem to do it out of a dash, but I can do it half the time while standing still.

Just keep practicing it. Once you got it standing better try dashing next so you get full mastery of the tech.

 

[Gotmilk0112]

Whenever I try to do it out of a dash, I just end up grabbing.

What am I doing wrong?

 

[Pixel_]

Whenever I try to do it out of a dash, I just end up grabbing.

What am I doing wrong?

I personally go to Training mode for many tech just so that I can put it on slow motion.
Try it out first on 1/4 speed, raise it up to 1/2, 2/3, then full speed. It can help with the order of inputs, but you'll need to practice it on 1x speed for the actual input speed.

You're probably pressing attack and shield at the same time; you're supposed to press attack, let go, then press shield.

This is what it should look like with D-Tilt:

My full video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYTePw904sI
Mr. Eric also has his video on the first page of the thread.

 

[Crome]

Whenever I try to do it out of a dash, I just end up grabbing.

What am I doing wrong?

What pixel said. You need to input attack before you cancel the charge with shield.

So run > down b > attack > shield

> + > >

 

[Pixel_]

Wanted to mention 2 more things:
- Time in between the inputs for and is EXTREMELY loose and is restricted only by how long the gyro takes to charge. Meanwhile, the input between and is really strict and has to be really fast

- An alternate method is charging the gyro so that it's almost completely charged. Then, dash up, charge the gyro (which will finish charging if done correctly), then do any move. It just doesn't sound realistic, though.

lol I haven't even mastered this tech yet but I still sound like I know what I'm talking about. (I probably do, though )

 

[Mister Eric]

Hmmmmm, I can do it while standing still...I think? I go from Gyro charge animation directly into dtilt. No lag/delay, just immediate dtilt from the gyro charge animation.

Is that doing it right?

If I try to do it out of a dash, I just end up grabbing or spotdodging/rolling. Can't seem to do it out of a dash, but I can do it half the time while standing still.

Don't worry, I'm having the issue as well. Just takes practice, practice, and more practice!

 

[professor mgw]

Wow this is pretty good. Rob use to be my secondary, now switched him to my main so this will be a nice tool to add to the bag. I've been practicing it for 20 minutes and I'm getting the hang of it, my only mistake is the same one everytime and that's doing side B. Guess I'm not flicking down fast enough, or maybe you just can't gyro immediately out of a dash, not sure.

 

[Mister Eric]

Wow this is pretty good. Rob use to be my secondary, now switched him to my main so this will be a nice tool to add to the bag. I've been practicing it for 20 minutes and I'm getting the hang of it, my only mistake is the same one everytime and that's doing side B. Guess I'm not flicking down fast enough, or maybe you just can't gyro immediately out of a dash, not sure.

Out of dash you can down b anytime. But not during dash animation.

 

[Gotmilk0112]

Mm...yeah, while standing still, I can do it perfectly fine. Took a bit of practice to get the timing down, but I can do it, yeah.

While dashing I'm still having trouble. Adding a dash to the beginning of the input sequence is just too much for my feeble mind to comprehend. Don't think I'd be able to do it in the heat of a match, either!

Heck, I don't particularly know how to properly use dtilt itself, to begin with. I should start on that first.

 

[KingChaos]

I have a couple really good examples of the applications of this tech in tournament matches. Been trying it more and more lately. Got a jab lock off of a fair chase into IGC dtilt then charged up smash. It was so sexy I'll post the vid of the match when it goes to youtube so you guys can see.

 

[nintendonaut]

Mm...yeah, while standing still, I can do it perfectly fine. Took a bit of practice to get the timing down, but I can do it, yeah.

While dashing I'm still having trouble. Adding a dash to the beginning of the input sequence is just too much for my feeble mind to comprehend. Don't think I'd be able to do it in the heat of a match, either!

Heck, I don't particularly know how to properly use dtilt itself, to begin with. I should start on that first.

For what it's worth, I personally recommend using the C-Stick to perform the tech. It's actually generally recommended to use the C-Stick for D-Tilt in general, since it triggers the move instantly without having to go through the "crouch" animation first. To do the IGC, I dash, use Down-B, and then immediately slide my thumb from B to a downward flick of the C-Stick--Then right after that action, press R. I have the most success that way.

I have a couple really good examples of the applications of this tech in tournament matches. Been trying it more and more lately. Got a jab lock off of a fair chase into IGC dtilt then charged up smash. It was so sexy I'll post the vid of the match when it goes to youtube so you guys can see.

I would love to see it!!

 

[Gotmilk0112]

For what it's worth, I personally recommend using the C-Stick to perform the tech. It's actually generally recommended to use the C-Stick for D-Tilt in general, since it triggers the move instantly without having to go through the "crouch" animation first. To do the IGC, I dash, use Down-B, and then immediately slide my thumb from B to a downward flick of the C-Stick--Then right after that action, press R. I have the most success that way.

I already use Tilt Stick, but I'm finding it much easier to just thumb over both B and A, instead of having to hit B and then slide my thumb down over the stick, while also hitting the shoulder button with that same hand.

 

[Mister Eric]

The only thing keeping me from using this all the time is the fact that I already used L to jump. Makes my world so much harder rn. Doing some controller button mapping soul searching. Hope I figure it out soon lol.

 

[KingChaos]

The only thing keeping me from using this all the time is the fact that I already used L to jump. Makes my world so much harder rn. Doing some controller button mapping soul searching. Hope I figure it out soon lol.

Hey Mister Eric I use L to jump also and even started using it to help with my dthrow up airs. I honestly don't think there is a huge difference in it helping ROB's beep boop but it is there. Sheik it is necessary to get the dthrow up air 50/50 to work properly so I adapted and switched and just use it for ROB also so I can stay practiced in using it. Do you have a problem with the tech because you have L mapped to jump? Just wondering cuz I don't use L at all for it and it works for me.

 

[Mister Eric]

Hey Mister Eric I use L to jump also and even started using it to help with my dthrow up airs. I honestly don't think there is a huge difference in it helping ROB's beep boop but it is there. Sheik it is necessary to get the dthrow up air 50/50 to work properly so I adapted and switched and just use it for ROB also so I can stay practiced in using it. Do you have a problem with the tech because you have L mapped to jump? Just wondering cuz I don't use L at all for it and it works for me.

Any difference is an important difference to me.
What are you using for special then?

 

[KingChaos]

Any difference is an important difference to me.
What are you using for special then?

Agree'd reason I'm sticking to that method from now on. I use the b button followed by a flick on the c stick with the same thumb that I used to hit b simultaneously. Seems practical for me maybe some have an issue with this? I come from a melee background before brawl so tech to me in this game isn't anything I can't handle. But from what I have noticed brawl or especially smash 4 only players have trouble with semi complex inputs.

 

[Mister Eric]

Agree'd reason I'm sticking to that method from now on. I use the b button followed by a flick on the c stick with the same thumb that I used to hit b simultaneously. Seems practical for me maybe some have an issue with this? I come from a melee background before brawl so tech to me in this game isn't anything I can't handle. But from what I have noticed brawl or especially smash 4 only players have trouble with semi complex inputs.

Doing the tech with B is easy for me when doing dtilt. But what about uptilt? I don't even remember trying it now that I think back. Whenever it came to mind to do c stick up, I didn't like that I couldn't slide my thumb from b to stick as smoothly. So I just began trying to use Z and using my middle finger for Z and my ring finger for R. Didn't like that either, so I tried the recommended method of using L for special. But then I really missed having jump as that. I don't mind hard techs. I honestly want more. Nothing is making this difficult for me other than already having specially mapped controls. I change 6 key configurations on my controller mapping already. And it takes my brain a bit to not subconsciously do something I've been doing for a while. So I just want to make sure I have to go that route before I force myself to pursue it. I will try out using b for special soon.

 

[dettadeus]

so i just started messing around with this, been a while since i visited the boards.

i have had x set to grab for a long time now and this is actually super easy to do with that setup, because you can roll your thumb all the way from B over A to X and get all three inputs. Able to fairly consistently do dtilt and jab, and have somehow occasionally gotten a pivot dtilt while attempting to do utilt without attack stick.

gonna keep messing around with this until i find a consistent way to do pivot dtilt out of it without having to breverse the initial gyro charge first, since it's super hard to do that without buffering a roll.

 

[KingChaos]

Doing the tech with B is easy for me when doing dtilt. But what about uptilt? I don't even remember trying it now that I think back. Whenever it came to mind to do c stick up, I didn't like that I couldn't slide my thumb from b to stick as smoothly. So I just began trying to use Z and using my middle finger for Z and my ring finger for R. Didn't like that either, so I tried the recommended method of using L for special. But then I really missed having jump as that. I don't mind hard techs. I honestly want more. Nothing is making this difficult for me other than already having specially mapped controls. I change 6 key configurations on my controller mapping already. And it takes my brain a bit to not subconsciously do something I've been doing for a while. So I just want to make sure I have to go that route before I force myself to pursue it. I will try out using b for special soon.

Yea it is doable I did a plat form tech chase on someone with it recently using my b then c stick method. I saw him land on there and miss the tech so i ran to the other end of it and did the IGC up tilt to catch him out of the roll. It is all just about muscle memory. Just gotta spend that hour or 2 in that lab doing it as fast as you can so you get it down is all. It becomes intuitive with some practice I promise. Just gotta get them fingers precise as to quickly hit the up on the c stick and not hit it down by accident. I know you will figure it out just fine and show people how useful this can be. I even got the run up IGC grab mix up on someone last weekend and I think that was recorded as well.

 

[dettadeus]

K so I got a replay of myself doing the pivot dtilt thing, and it was just me managing to wavebounce the gyro charge without inputting a roll. Super tough and the input I used was super janky (roll the stick from straight down in the downb input 235 degrees around to up-back) so idk how reliable it is, but it doesn't give me rolls so I guess that's helpful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEQT9vcvIDQ

Here's the vid if anyone's curious. The two times I do the wavebounce IGC to dtilt are around 0:49 and 0:53. Everything else is basically me mashing my controller attempting to find the inputs that worked.

 

[KingChaos]

hmm cool it is really hard to get it without rolling on accident though.

 

[Pixel_]

Maybe turnaround works?

 

[Jams.]

Personally, I feel like the advantages of b-reverse IGC dtilt aren't enough to make up for the likelihood of an input error compared to pivot ftilt. =/

This assessment isn't meant to be reflective of IGC is general, which I think is very useful.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Rob's version of this is significantly better than Sheik's btw. Sheik has a one frame window to cancel her charge in order to get the attack out on the frame of the shield input, which is frame 8. If she misses that 1 frame window, it won't work; if she hits shield on frame 7 there will be no cancel, and if she hits shield on frame 9 she has to wait an extra 7 frames in order for the move to come out. Rob is not only able to have attacks come out earlier (on frame 7) but there is absolutely no precision required. You can hit shield before frame 7, and so long as you are holding it on frame 7, the attack will activate. You can hit shield at any point during the charge, and so long as you have inputted an attack within 10 frames before the shield button is pressed, the shield button will activate the attack on the same frame every time. Too easy.

 

[Jaaahsh]

I made a thing, guys! And this very thread makes a cameo!
Instant Gyro Cancelling, a ROB Tech!
It probably won't be new news to any of you, but I tried to make the whole sequence a little more digestible for newer folks.

 

[tronfox64]

I'm so jealous of the leniency on this!! Here I thought Sheik having 1 frame to cancel was a blessing itself, but then rob comes in and steals the show. Great post KingChaos and great video Jaaahsh .

Also makes me wonder if there other moves out there with this property that have yet to be tested thoroughly (prays Cloud's Limit charge up has ILC)

 

[Jaaahsh]

Also makes me wonder if there other moves out there with this property that have yet to be tested thoroughly (prays Cloud's Limit charge up has ILC)

I tried Robin's charge, Sonic's two spins, Samus's charge, Rosalina's luma shot (fat chance, I know), Toon/Link's bow, all using the same rhythm as ROB/Diddy/Sheik... most of them seem to have much too long of a startup (or something built in that prevents cancelling the shield) to use this sort of tech. Maybe Cloud will have it, but something tells me it's unlikely.

 

[KingChaos]

Rob's version of this is significantly better than Sheik's btw. Sheik has a one frame window to cancel her charge in order to get the attack out on the frame of the shield input, which is frame 8. If she misses that 1 frame window, it won't work; if she hits shield on frame 7 there will be no cancel, and if she hits shield on frame 9 she has to wait an extra 7 frames in order for the move to come out. Rob is not only able to have attacks come out earlier (on frame 7) but there is absolutely no precision required. You can hit shield before frame 7, and so long as you are holding it on frame 7, the attack will activate. You can hit shield at any point during the charge, and so long as you have inputted an attack within 10 frames before the shield button is pressed, the shield button will activate the attack on the same frame every time. Too easy.

I have noticed this tech to be quite a bit easier on ROB which is why I was so excited and posted all my findings as soon as possible. Now I know why so t

I made a thing, guys! And this very thread makes a cameo!
Instant Gyro Cancelling, a ROB Tech!
It probably won't be new news to any of you, but I tried to make the whole sequence a little more digestible for newer folks.

Thanks to everyone who has helped dig even deeper into this finding and check back really soon I have an amazing jab lock off a missed tech in tourney using IGC. Everyone should be trying to implement this into their game. Thanks for making a video on it good work! Only thing I would change is that I'm a Sheik/R.O.B. Co main and my real tag is TekNo. KingChaos is the tag I'm stuck with pretty much here on smashboards but that is hardly what is important so it isn't that big a deal. Still rocks you made a vid explaining this in detail and for that I am grateful to you.

 

[KingChaos]

Here is the video I promised utilizing the tech for a jab lock. starts a little after 3 mins in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGdEypkRjoY&list=PLIEqqx4tPoQEyx2XHEoDO0KD5_WFeTjNp&index=2

 

[tronfox64]

I tried Robin's charge, Sonic's two spins, Samus's charge, Rosalina's luma shot (fat chance, I know), Toon/Link's bow, all using the same rhythm as ROB/Diddy/Sheik... most of them seem to have much too long of a startup (or something built in that prevents cancelling the shield) to use this sort of tech. Maybe Cloud will have it, but something tells me it's unlikely.

Soo.... Cloud has Instant Limit Cancel... Totally called it!

 

[KingChaos]

Soo.... Cloud has Instant Limit Cancel... Totally called it!

Haha yea you totally did. I been playing around with it and it is very good with him.

 

[Crome]

New find (?) - You can incorporate shield dropping with this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryfhRB_xihA

 

[zephyrnereus]

Here is the video I promised utilizing the tech for a jab lock. starts a little after 3 mins in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGdEypkRjoY&list=PLIEqqx4tPoQEyx2XHEoDO0KD5_WFeTjNp&index=2

you did the tech there fine, but since that was after a short hop, wouldn't it been easier if you just inputted the Dtilt once on the ground? or were you aiming for a downB mid air charge into a canceled tilt when you touched the floor?

 

[KingChaos]

you did the tech there fine, but since that was after a short hop, wouldn't it been easier if you just inputted the Dtilt once on the ground? or were you aiming for a downB mid air charge into a canceled tilt when you touched the floor?

Yea I was going to go for a gyro follow up then just noticed I could lock him so I went directly to that option. I have gotten locks off of running and doing the IGC dtilt's though. Thought this was one of them until I re watched it.

 

[TreeFire80]

So has anyone else noticed the only way to get an IGC f-smash is to have A+B smash attack on? Somehow I've even been able to do a turnaround up-angled fsmash from IGC as well. I also noticed that you can use a single down input to both start the down-b and do an IGC dsmash/dtilt with A+B on. You can even use that down input to fast-fall into the IGC dsmash, this makes things like shff fair -> ff IGC dsmash a possible string in some match-ups.

Also, if you change Y or X (I prefer Y) to shield, then the timing on it becomes an absolute joke. Like you don't even have to actually time the A -> shield input at all to avoid accidentally grabbing. You can literally start charging the gyro, be holding A and press Y while continuing to hold A and the move will come out. I just recently switched solely to R-jump, so for all you bumper jumpers that have an open face button, this should be an easy implementation.


(Also, can anyone help me with inputting those button images into a thread? I'm still pretty new.)

 

[Crome]

So has anyone else noticed the only way to get an IGC f-smash is to have A+B smash attack on? Somehow I've even been able to do a turnaround up-angled fsmash from IGC as well. I also noticed that you can use a single down input to both start the down-b and do an IGC dsmash/dtilt with A+B on. You can even use that down input to fast-fall into the IGC dsmash, this makes things like shff fair -> ff IGC dsmash a possible string in some match-ups.

Also, if you change Y or X (I prefer Y) to shield, then the timing on it becomes an absolute joke. Like you don't even have to actually time the A -> shield input at all to avoid accidentally grabbing. You can literally start charging the gyro, be holding A and press Y while continuing to hold A and the move will come out. I just recently switched solely to R-jump, so for all you bumper jumpers that have an open face button, this should be an easy implementation.


(Also, can anyone help me with inputting those button images into a thread? I'm still pretty new.)

This is a lot of interesting information, thanks for the contribution. I'll definitley check out that shield button set up.

To use the button images, press the emoticon button on the text editor (it's the smiley face) and from there you'll see a tab labeled "GC Buttons".

 

[Jams.]

So has anyone else noticed the only way to get an IGC f-smash is to have A+B smash attack on? Somehow I've even been able to do a turnaround up-angled fsmash from IGC as well. I also noticed that you can use a single down input to both start the down-b and do an IGC dsmash/dtilt with A+B on. You can even use that down input to fast-fall into the IGC dsmash, this makes things like shff fair -> ff IGC dsmash a possible string in some match-ups.

Also, if you change Y or X (I prefer Y) to shield, then the timing on it becomes an absolute joke. Like you don't even have to actually time the A -> shield input at all to avoid accidentally grabbing. You can literally start charging the gyro, be holding A and press Y while continuing to hold A and the move will come out. I just recently switched solely to R-jump, so for all you bumper jumpers that have an open face button, this should be an easy implementation.


(Also, can anyone help me with inputting those button images into a thread? I'm still pretty new.)

It is possible to IGC dtilt/dsmash with one down input without A+B smash as well. Personally, I found it really difficult to quickly IGC dtilt with A+B smash, since if you input this too quickly you'll IGC dsmash instead. I may reconsider though. Very interesting and useful notes!

 

[TreeFire80]

It is possible to IGC dtilt/dsmash with one down input without A+B smash as well. Personally, I found it really difficult to quickly IGC dtilt with A+B smash, since if you input this too quickly you'll IGC dsmash instead. I may reconsider though. Very interesting and useful notes!

Hmm, it seems you are correct that you can IGC dsmash with a single down input, I had not realized this. Although it seems far stricter on the timing as the down input has to be really close in frames to hitting A which is more lenient with A+B smash (which can also be handier if you intentionally want to delay it). I'm almost positive however that you can't get use it as a fastfall input as well (definitely not at typical fastfall heights), although of course that works for the IGC dtilt.

I do understand the concerns with it being more difficult to IGC dtilt consistently with A+B smash on if using or .
However, if you use tilt stick, the movement from to is actually quite natural and fast then you can use or for the shield to get just-as-quick dtilts, albeit with harder timing.

 

[Crome]

Someone should test and see what new things we can do with the Bidou control scheme.

 

[Pixel_]

Someone should test and see what new things we can do with the Bidou control scheme.

Any ideas on what to try out?