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A new R.O.B. tech: Instant Gyro Cancelling

KingChaos

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Hello fellow members of the Rob Squad and welcome to my thread about this little discovery I've made. I'm calling it Instant Gyro Cancelling (IGC) after the Sheik version of the tech. I believe it is useful and will get into why in just a moment.

The sheiks refer to their tech as Instant Needle Cancelling (INC) if any of you happen to be familiar with that if not i'll leave a link at the end of my post so you can gain a more intimate understanding of what I'm going to tell you about R.O.B.'s version of the tech. Without further ado let's get into what exactly this tech is and why I think it is so good for us.

First of all you should have your c stick set to tilts for this to be optimal.

To perform this tech you do a dash----> down B---> C stick down, up, left, right, A button----> Cancel the gyro animation with shield within a couple frames of flicking the c stick and let go immediately. If performed correctly you will do a dtilt, up tilt, ftilt, or jab respectively right out of a dash on the soonest possible frame thanks to the buffered c stick option you chose. Making it happen faster than dash stop then dtilt, up tilt, ftilt, or jab.

Here is an example of why I find this to be useful as a whole new approach option. Allowing R.O.B. to run up and immediately pressure someone's shield with down tilts or just outright getting the hit and possible trip into follow ups. I find it useful because typically R.O.B.'s approaches are very aerial based or grab happy and therefore predictable at high level play when opponents learn to perfect shield our approach Nair's. It also leads to mix ups in the late game that can easily net you grabs if you're successful in pressuring and hitting them with the down tilts on your dash in they will likely want to respond with shield when they see the dash in gyro animation but this time instead of buffering the dtilt as before now you cancel the gyro into grab! Which of course for us is super awesome. I think this tech is incredibly useful in aggressive R.O.B. play if that is your style or if you need to adopt that style because your projectiles aren't working and you're losing the match. This keeps things fresh for your approach game I believe and is superior to the other attack option out of dash with is to dash attack and up smash simply because it is much safer and provides mix up opportunities. If the down tilt hits shield just do more of em with the new shield stun this puts our opponent immediately on the defensive as soon as they decide to shield so you can read or react accordingly on their defensive habits/option selects.

I hope you all can find this useful to some degree and helps you advance your R.O.B. play to take our beloved Robot to even higher places in the meta game.

Important side note: Remember you can also do this while stationary and at any point in the charging animation you can even buffer an attack for when the full charge auto stops you if you know the timing really well. It technically works for dtilts also by just inputting A after the down B if you just hold down on the control stick following the down B). Also you can only ftilt in the direction you are facing when you use down b.

Here is the link to give you a visual of what I mean for those who learn visually just remember the input is down B instead of neutral B is used for us instead. Just need to watch 1:26-4:20:shades: (had to haha) to gain an understanding of what this tech looks like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnPuibqUIuA
 
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BoTastic!

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hey this is awesome. I think I'd like a video of this so I can know if Im doing this right, LOLz

Mainly because I think I'm doing this just as successfully without my C stick. In fact, I find it easier to do with the A button.
 
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KingChaos

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hey this is awesome. I think I'd like a video of this so I can know if Im doing this right, LOLz

Mainly because I think I'm doing this just as successfully without my C stick. In fact, I find it easier to do with the A button.
Hey if it works with the A button that is awesome I've been on tilt stick for sheik for awhile now so I just am used to that. If A works that is probably even easier and i'll try that soon. Didn't even cross my mind when I was trying it out. Also I'm mad at myself for not introducing myself to you at big house I was just super tired chillen in that room with Dabuz, Fatality, and all them and I wasn't sure if you were Bo or not but it doesn't really matter i'm sure we will cross paths again. I was gonna tell you how much I appreciate your R.O.B. play and that you use the red color cuz that is mine also haha. I've met greenbeast and Dan already so they can vouch for my R.O.B. play somewhat. Also congrats on how well you did at E2C I was rooting for you all the way.
 
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BoTastic!

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ooh I guess we'll meet next time! And thanks! I played very well at E2C19, I've decided to focus mainly on ROB. My performance was failing recently because of the different characters I've been trying but I definitely wanna rep the ROBsquad more. Especially with this new tech. I love it. Gives me motivation to lab with ROB more.
 

KingChaos

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ooh I guess we'll meet next time! And thanks! I played very well at E2C19, I've decided to focus mainly on ROB. My performance was failing recently because of the different characters I've been trying but I definitely wanna rep the ROBsquad more. Especially with this new tech. I love it. Gives me motivation to lab with ROB more.
Good to hear I'm sticking with my two mains I can't see myself dropping sheik anytime soon just because of how much fun she has always been for me to play throughout the series and compliments R.O.B. incredibly well and vice versa I'm finding. No match up unanswered for me with these two. I would recommend at the very least have an answer to zss because R.O.B. gets blown back by her pretty hard. I'm pretty comfortable with R.O.B. in the majority of match ups in this game and could honestly probably solo main him but I feel that will just make tourney life harder for me for no reason for when I run into those few match ups where I need Sheik.
 

BoTastic!

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I don't think it's possible for ROB to beat characters like ZSS and Mario honestly. he needs a secondary at the highest level.
 

KingChaos

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I do R.O.B. vs mario fairly well although I got wrecked by Ally's but I don't think my sheik woulda did any better. I've beaten every mario I've come across besides Dan's who I did take a game off and have a close 1st game with at Rebirth. But Zss not a chance in hell if they are anywhere near as good as you.
 
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HaywireAndroid

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wait so this is for a gamecube controller? do you know anything about how to do this with a retro classic controller? because thats the controller i use to play smash and i love it
 

Mister Eric

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I hope that ROB players realize the true value of this tech and work their little robotic thumbs off to learn it. Thanks for exploring INC in the realm of ROB KingChaos KingChaos <3
This is the same way I found the easy way to spam gyro cancel. It was in the realm of Diddy's peanut cancel
 
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KingChaos

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wait so this is for a gamecube controller? do you know anything about how to do this with a retro classic controller? because thats the controller i use to play smash and i love it
You can actually just press A when you have already held down after the down B to get the d tilt buffered. So try that out but even if that does work you will still need a second stick reassigned as attack instead of smash attack in order to perform the ftilt variation.
 

Syde7

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hey this is awesome. I think I'd like a video of this so I can know if Im doing this right, LOLz

Mainly because I think I'm doing this just as successfully without my C stick. In fact, I find it easier to do with the A button.
You can do it with A, yes. But, you have to continue to hold down while charging the gyro. Letting go of the gyro charge and pressing A will result in a jab. Getting a jab out of it at higher percents is nice, as it can set up for a grab.

Also, you don't have to do this out of a dash. You can do it while stationary.
Also x2, you don't have to do it at the initial charge. You can stand there charging for a bit, and still perform the tech.

Also x3... sorry I dissapeared. Have been active in growing my local community and practicing on my own, so I haven't been able to dedicate the time to the ROB boards as of late.
 

KingChaos

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You can do it with A, yes. But, you have to continue to hold down while charging the gyro. Letting go of the gyro charge and pressing A will result in a jab. Getting a jab out of it at higher percents is nice, as it can set up for a grab.

Also, you don't have to do this out of a dash. You can do it while stationary.
Also x2, you don't have to do it at the initial charge. You can stand there charging for a bit, and still perform the tech.

Also x3... sorry I dissapeared. Have been active in growing my local community and practicing on my own, so I haven't been able to dedicate the time to the ROB boards as of late.
Those are a couple important points that i'll go ahead and add to the original post.
 

nintendonaut

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I know some of us, including myself, use L to jump. It helps pull off clean Beep-Boops because you can hold the stick one, solid direction without having to angle it for an up-air (use C-stick instead). Thing is, I've found that setting L back to shield actually really helps make this tech easier. Trying to press R right after flicking the C-stick bends my hand in a weird way and feel really uncomfortable. Using the L button has boosted my success rate with it, and it's a lot more comfortable for me. I've been practicing on switching to a sort of "claw grip" for Beep-Boops, where I press Y with my index finger to jump while using my thumb to C-stick.
 

KingChaos

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I know some of us, including myself, use L to jump. It helps pull off clean Beep-Boops because you can hold the stick one, solid direction without having to angle it for an up-air (use C-stick instead). Thing is, I've found that setting L back to shield actually really helps make this tech easier. Trying to press R right after flicking the C-stick bends my hand in a weird way and feel really uncomfortable. Using the L button has boosted my success rate with it, and it's a lot more comfortable for me. I've been practicing on switching to a sort of "claw grip" for Beep-Boops, where I press Y with my index finger to jump while using my thumb to C-stick.
I use Y for my beeb boops and my accuracy with them is very good across all percents. Never had an issue with them. Using L to jump may just be easier but not necessary in my experience. I use L to jump but only for out of shield options since I don't play with tap jump. If changing your trigger back to shield makes it easier by all means do it. I for one do it with the method I've described just fine after a couple hours of practice. Feels pretty intuitive to me but hey to each their own.
 

Mister Eric

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I use Y for my beeb boops and my accuracy with them is very good across all percents. Never had an issue with them. Using L to jump may just be easier but not necessary in my experience. I use L to jump but only for out of shield options since I don't play with tap jump. If changing your trigger back to shield makes it easier by all means do it. I for one do it with the method I've described just fine after a couple hours of practice. Feels pretty intuitive to me but hey to each their own.
What do you use to do the up air?
 

KingChaos

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What do you use to do the up air?
I use A to up air. I just slide my finger down really fast after the jump to hit it and has always worked for me just fine. People don't seem to get away any easier to me.
 
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FalconXD

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Cool technique i'll definitely have to look into this, just one question that came to mind and might be critical depending on the specific scenario, does this work if ROB has a gyro out on the field or does he need to have it available to charge for this to work?
 

Jams.

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Cool technique i'll definitely have to look into this, just one question that came to mind and might be critical depending on the specific scenario, does this work if ROB has a gyro out on the field or does he need to have it available to charge for this to work?
He needs to have gyro available. You can only cancel the charge animation, not the "whoops I already have a gyro out" animation.
 

nintendonaut

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Turns out the L-button jump was too precious to me, so I've been practicing the tech with R instead. Doesn't feel too bad once you get used to it.
 

Constadin

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Man this is huge! Dtilt out of a dash? Do you guys realize what that means? If you did not get it with the first, let me elaborate why this tech is so huge. 2 Words... Jab locks. I know it is not so common and ppl need to lose their techs, let alone that we need to catch up with them with a heavy running character as rob (This tech really solves this problem). Well there are certain moves that can almost force this to happen though and are really underused at the moment. One example is fthrow during 12-20% that if not DIed perfectly leaves almost no room to tech. Much like :4pikachu:, with the only difference that he can actually outrun (not anymore \o/ ) us and jab lock with a jab. I know during these % a Dthrow to upair is guaranteed but why not combine it? Jab lock ---> Dgrab ---> upair. And this is only one example to why this tech is sooooo good.


Also while labing it, without using Cstick at all, I found that a faster input of the commands does end up with a dsmash which can punish a get up roll so good as well as a ledge trump ff landing on the stage again by your opponent.


I do not know why it had to take more than a year for this to be discovered but thank you so much dude for enriching our gameplay. Keep up the good work robsquad and keep the techs coming :)
 

KingChaos

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Turns out the L-button jump was too precious to me, so I've been practicing the tech with R instead. Doesn't feel too bad once you get used to it.
See I told you no need to switch your L button.

Man this is huge! Dtilt out of a dash? Do you guys realize what that means? If you did not get it with the first, let me elaborate why this tech is so huge. 2 Words... Jab locks. I know it is not so common and ppl need to lose their techs, let alone that we need to catch up with them with a heavy running character as rob (This tech really solves this problem). Well there are certain moves that can almost force this to happen though and are really underused at the moment. One example is fthrow during 12-20% that if not DIed perfectly leaves almost no room to tech. Much like :4pikachu:, with the only difference that he can actually outrun (not anymore \o/ ) us and jab lock with a jab. I know during these % a Dthrow to upair is guaranteed but why not combine it? Jab lock ---> Dgrab ---> upair. And this is only one example to why this tech is sooooo good.


Also while labing it, without using Cstick at all, I found that a faster input of the commands does end up with a dsmash which can punish a get up roll so good as well as a ledge trump ff landing on the stage again by your opponent.


I do not know why it had to take more than a year for this to be discovered but thank you so much dude for enriching our gameplay. Keep up the good work robsquad and keep the techs coming :)
Haha awe shucks your welcome and thank Sheik for giving me the idea to try this in the first place. Good thing I main them both or this could have taken even longer to figure out who knows when we would have discovered this. I'm glad you are all enjoying this and look forward to more R.O.B. ownage in those tourney's out there. Go and put in the finest of work! ROBSQUAD4LIFE!
 
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Constadin

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KingChaos can you actually cancel to dsmash with sheik? I did try this tech with other chars that cancel their special with shield (ex mewtwo, donkey kong etc) and I found noone to be able to do it appart from ROB and sheik (I mean all tilts,jab and dsmash). ROB if done fast is canceling into dsmash.Forgot to test dsmash with sheik tbh, so I was wondering if you know.
 

KingChaos

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KingChaos can you actually cancel to dsmash with sheik? I did try this tech with other chars that cancel their special with shield (ex mewtwo, donkey kong etc) and I found no one to be able to do it appart from ROB and sheik (I mean all tilts,jab and dsmash). ROB if done fast is canceling into dsmash.Forgot to test dsmash with sheik tbh, so I was wondering if you know.
I imagine it is possible but is unnecessary because Dtilt>>>>Dsmash. Her Dsmash seriously sucks and is not worth keeping smash stick on to perform instead of the tilts out of the instant needle cancel. Like it isn't even worth testing because her having access to the tilts is worth much much more. On a related note I was actually using smash stick with R.O.B. when I first discovered it so I knew dsmash worked just that the tilts were more useful because they open up the door to so much more. If you want an attack option out of your dash with smash stick on you still have upsmash which is better then R.O.B.'s dsmash anyways.
 

Constadin

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I have not been performing this by using the cstick, just a sequence of downb-downa-R. If you go fast you do a dsmash, if not then dtilt it is. Plus I am not at all intrested in sheik and her techs-moves I was just curious to know if this is a unique property of rob's only since it have not seen it mentioned anywhere :grin:
 

KingChaos

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I have not been performing this by using the cstick, just a sequence of downb-downa-R. If you go fast you do a dsmash, if not then dtilt it is. Plus I am not at all intrested in sheik and her techs-moves I was just curious to know if this is a unique property of rob's only since it have not seen it mentioned anywhere :grin:
If you can get it to work for you in a different way more power to ya I have tilt stick for more than just this tech. Also allow's me to dtilt after nair's on the soonest possible frame. This is a property unique to Sheik, R.O.B., and possibly Diddy. I am not 100 percent sure about Diddy but I believe I heard he has something like this recently.
 

Metalex

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This is very interesting! Will definitely start utilizing this.

And it doesn't work with other characters that have charge based attacks like Mewtwo, Donkey kong, Samus etc if i understood correctly?
 
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Jams.

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This is very interesting! Will definitely start utilizing this.

And it doesn't work with other characters that have charge based attacks like Mewtwo, Donkey kong, Samus etc if i understood correctly?
At the very least, it works for Sheik (see OP), Diddy Kong, and Pac Man. I'm not sure what the criteria is for this to work with a charged special though, possibly how quickly shield can be put up from the charging animation? @smashPony might know better since he seems to have experimented with a number of characters.
 

KingChaos

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This is very interesting! Will definitely start utilizing this.

And it doesn't work with other characters that have charge based attacks like Mewtwo, Donkey kong, Samus etc if i understood correctly?
To my knowledge that is correct in that not many characters can do this. Only two I'm sure of is of course R.O.B. and Sheik. Diddy is a possibility but I do not know for sure as I don't care to test it with anyone else to find out.
 

Toad King

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I've been practicing this tech and twice now I've been able to somehow reverse direction for the tilt. I'm not sure if it's from a B reverse or a pivot somehow because I can't reliably do it but it seems to be possible.
 

Gotmilk0112

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To perform this tech you do a dash----> down B---> C stick down, up, left, right, A button----> Cancel the gyro animation with shield within a couple frames of flicking the c stick and let go immediately.
How exactly are you supposed to quickly do this input? Down-B to C-stick to shield all within a split second of each other?

Maybe it's just me being a noob to Smashing with a GC controller, but...it seems insanely difficult.
 

KingChaos

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How exactly are you supposed to quickly do this input? Down-B to C-stick to shield all within a split second of each other?

Maybe it's just me being a noob to Smashing with a GC controller, but...it seems insanely difficult.
Probably is just you being new to the controller it really isn't that hard. I come from playing melee so this is nothing compared to wavedashing and all that nonsense. You could try slowing the speed down a tad in training mode until you get used to the way your fingers gotta move then increase it up to normal speed once you get that down.
 
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Jams.

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Gotmilk0112 Gotmilk0112 Also, note that the only inputs you have to actually press quickly are dtilt and shield. You can cancel the gyro during any part of its charging animation, so the time between :GCD::GCB: and :GCD::GCA:/:GCCD: -> :GCRT:/:GCLT: can be a long as you want. Of course, it's usually more beneficial to perform all the inputs quickly since it gets dtilt out faster.

Personally, I perform this tech by using gyro, then keeping the analog stick held down and rolling my right thumb from the B button to the A button, then pressing R quickly. It feels pretty natural to me, and you don't have to move your right thumb as much compared to hitting down on the c-stick while your left thumb is already in position from using downb. Note that you'll need to turn off A+B smash to perform dtilt, and this method is only handy for using dtilt and dsmash out of IGC. Of course, different people have different preferences so find what works for you!
 

Mister Eric

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You won't want to use B for special here as KingChaos explained. If you do, you limit what tilts you can do. You will also want to use tilt stick. I'm changing my already weird control scheme for this.
 

Gotmilk0112

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Yeah, I did set the C-stick to tilts. So I have to set L to special like the video said? I suppose I could do that; I'm so used to using the gamepad, ZL for grab and ZR for shield, but I can use GC's Z button for grabbing I suppose, and set L to specials.

I don't really know how to do any of these advanced "techs" in general (wavebouncing and those things), so that probably isn't helping either. :p
 

KingChaos

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Yeah, I did set the C-stick to tilts. So I have to set L to special like the video said? I suppose I could do that; I'm so used to using the gamepad, ZL for grab and ZR for shield, but I can use GC's Z button for grabbing I suppose, and set L to specials.

I don't really know how to do any of these advanced "techs" in general (wavebouncing and those things), so that probably isn't helping either. :p
Yea your going to want to get wavebouncing and b reversing your projectiles down really well also. You can have L set to whatever you want as you do not need it for the tech unless of course that is you shield button. No need for L special on ROB that is something some Sheik's do to perform it a bit easier. But our input is down b not neutral b so that won't help us much. You wanna input dash-> down b-> c stick-> hit shield quickly and let go so your shield doesn't even come up instead you get the buffered tilt option to come out. I've been using this more and more lately and can attest to it's usefulness. Not absolutely critical in ROB's kit but more options is always nice and if you wanna truly master the character you will need this in your arsenal.
 
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KingChaos

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Yea your going to want to get wavebouncing and b reversing your projectiles down really well also. You can have L set to whatever you want as you do not need it for the tech unless of course that is you shield button. No need for L special on ROB that is something some Sheik's do to perform it a bit easier. But our input is down b not neutral b so that won't help us much. You wanna input dash-> down b-> c stick(up, down, left, righ)-> hit shield quickly and let go so your shield doesn't even come up instead you get the buffered tilt option to come out. I've been using this more and more lately and can attest to it's usefulness. Not absolutely critical in ROB's kit but more options is always nice and if you wanna truly master the character you will need this in your arsenal.
 

Gotmilk0112

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Hmmmmm, I can do it while standing still...I think? I go from Gyro charge animation directly into dtilt. No lag/delay, just immediate dtilt from the gyro charge animation.

Is that doing it right?

If I try to do it out of a dash, I just end up grabbing or spotdodging/rolling. Can't seem to do it out of a dash, but I can do it half the time while standing still.
 
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