A King's Quest For Respect: The Bowser Matchup Thread

[Vex Kasrani]

Fresh Utilt beat nado I think.

Reverse uptilt always beats it, its just the hitbox is weird and hard to use on Tornado.

 

[Flayl]

Dash Attack beats nado but MK shouldn't be using the tornado in such a position anyway.

 

[Collective of Bears]

Dash Attack beats nado but MK shouldn't be using the tornado in such a position anyway.

And Dash Attack is too sketchy to be using very often.

 

[DeTa]

Hey Bowser mains,
the Link boards from AiB (former smashboard Link community) has been discussing match-ups, and we're now discussing the Bowser MU. I noticed that you guys do not yet have info for Link, so if you guys are willing, it would be a great time to discuss Bowser with us. If you have an AiB account, please go over to the Link boards there and post what you all know from experience the MU. If you don't, I can always copypasta~ the info you post here and give credit to the contributor. Thanks! :D

 

[Cassius.]

How many Bowsers here don't have an AiB account anyway?

I know Vex, myself, Gen and KK have accounts and are somewhat active on both...somewhat.

Jay and Flayl have one as well but never use them. :/

Erm..anyway, I think we've discussed a little bit of Link a few pages back...

 

[Phiddlesticks]

I have an AiB account but I pretty much never go there!!!

 

[Zigsta]

The character on the AiB boards are just way too inactive for me, so I never made an account.

 

[Bowser King]

Yeah, I never cared much for AiB. I can almost always find better information over here and last time I checked AiB took most of its stuff from Smashboards. So I never really bothered.

 

[MrEh]

Bowser vs Link? Is that matchup really worth discussing?

Just throw stuff and Zair a lot.

 

[DeTa]

Thanks for the input guys. I really appreciate it

 

[Phiddlesticks]

i just skimmed through the link matchup thread and my favourite part was this gem:

Bowser mains can do something called "Fortressing," which is basically a form of edgehogging by using their downB special to grab the ledge. They can do it grounded or in the air. This was one of the major problems I faced as a Link main because not only is it an effective edgeguarding tool, it's bolstered by Link's bad recovery. Try to pay attention to see if the enemy bowser main is planning on fortressing. When thrown offstage, toss a boomerang toward the ledge to prevent them from doing so.

 

[B!squick]

Yes. Fortressing is good at... wait, what?

 

[Cassius.]

How in God's name do you confuse UpB with DownB

for lack of intention to offend anyone, we shouldn't call it "Bombing", even though that's closer to its proper name. Bowser isn't the next Osama, but wtf

 

[MrEh]

Never knew I could Fortress with downB.

I should try that.

 

[Godzillabr]

Yes. Fortressing is good at... wait, what?

never laught so much in this forum hahahahah!

 

[Hobobloke]

Wait....downb isn't fortress!? I was wondering why fortress OoS never seemed that good to me.

 

[AfroTwist ShadowPie]

Guys.
Link vs. Bowser.
Link boards.
http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=125768&page=1
Go.

 

[Dumbfire]

Wait....downb isn't fortress!? I was wondering why fortress OoS never seemed that good to me.

I lold. Big time.
Oh and go to that link afro gave.

 

[Zigsta]

So when are we moving on to another character?

 

[B!squick]

When we finish with this one. We don't have a complete summary yet. I've been waiting for someone to help fill it out. I got it started many pages back and have since been waiting for further input which, shockingly, hasn't come yet.

So, here we're staying until someone cares enough to help out.

 

[Bowser King]

Meta Knight
Ratio: 35:65
Secondary: .... Meta Knight?
What to look out for: Er... everything?
How they will KO you: DAir, Shuttle Loop
Best spacing zone: Jab's pretty much the only thing we can put all our trust in, right?
Grab-Relase
- For damage: Chaingrab + Klaw?
- For the KO: DTilt?
Firebreath: Short burst only, best to avoid completely
Stages
- Strike: {Neutral Stages to Strike}
- Ban: {Stage to ban, account for both conservative and liberal stage lists}
- Pick: {Best and 2nd best stage to choose from, account for both conservative and liberal stage lists}
Link to discussion: {link to either the beginning of the discussion or the most detailed post}

I think this is what Jaydeth is talking about. So until we completely fill that up were not moving on.

 

[B!squick]

Yes, that. We're trying not to do a repeat of last time.

 

[Flayl]

I would if I had any experience with good meta knights...

I'd strike Battlefield and Lylat Cruise
Ban Rainbow Cruise or Brinstar depending on your area's map pool
Counterpick Final Destination or Castle Siege/Smashville if Final Destination is banned

The first part of Castle Siege makes it a bit dubious though

I'd add FAir to the grab-release KO methods, DTilt can stay on there but FAir is guaranteed

I haven't analyzed MK's moveset but I'm pretty sure spacing Jab is pointless and you're better off staying at FTilt range

 

[Zigsta]

I much prefer jab over ftilt on the whole. Ftilt's fairly easy to punish for MK if he shields it. I usually only use ftilt if it'll hit MK with the tip of Bowser's knuckles. Any other distance, I stick to jabs.

I agree with striking BF and Lylat.

 

[Flayl]

See this is why MK is a very bad matchup. He easily outspaces Bowser's Jab with moves that are both faster and have less lag.

So you're stuck between giving him a really obvious spacing advantage or spacing with a move he can easily punish.

 

[MrEh]

I just run around and shield a lot. Seriously.

 

[Kofu]

That's a good strategy for Bowser in general.

 

[Cassius.]

Until your opponent starts to just follow you and grab you.

 

[MrEh]

And that's when the match really starts.

Outpredict. Outplay. Don't get gimped. lol

 

[B!squick]

Also, smart use of Firebreath. I know it sounds like a terrible idea, 'cause it's Firebreath and whatnot, but like it or not, it's a projectile. A bad one, but damage is damage, even if you only get 2 or so percent out of it.

Ban Rainbow Cruise or Brinstar depending on your area's map pool

But remember the song? "Still got 3 dawg."

 

[Zigsta]

I disagree with using Firebreath at all against MK, at least with the intentions of damaging him. It's just too easy to punish.

That said, it CAN be used to bait MKs to use Tornado on you, at which point you can punish it with Fortress, ftilt, or reverse uptilt.

 

[MrEh]

Fire is great. Good spacing tool, like I always said. Just don't hold that button down. lol

Using Fire to damage MK should never be anyone's intention. Fire is used to harass.

Dash attack can also be used to reset your positioning and get MK in a bad spot. It seems silly, but then it all comes down to prediction. Dash attack beats a lot of things, you just have to be sure that it won't miss. You'll get killed otherwise.

 

[Ixisnaugus]

Well I've been utilizing wavebounced Flame Breath a lot more often in general and it seems to do alright in this MU. Not spectacular but it does seem to catch the opponent off guard.

I find myself using aerial Black Hole (Klaw) quite a lot against MK - though it really doesn't work as often as I'd like it to - and spacing Ftilt and pivot grabs against aggressive players. In fact I go for grabs a lot since I have a relatively easy time with the regrab against MK and the release > Fair.

I have no idea if I'm going about the MU right, I don't get to play this one very often... if at all. Honestly can't help with this, we no good MK's here.

 

[B!squick]

Fire is great. Good spacing tool, like I always said. Just don't hold that button down. lol

Using Fire to damage MK should never be anyone's intention. Fire is used to harass.

Right. I was saying damage just because I was operating under the assumption that you'd get a hit or two in now and then. And yes, I do talk like that in real life.

Meta Knight
Ratio: 35:65
Secondary: .... Meta Knight?
What to look out for: Er... everything?
How they will KO you: DAir, Shuttle Loop
Best spacing zone: Jab/FTilt. Both have their disadvantages.
Grab-Relase
- For damage: Chaingrab + Klaw?
- For the KO: FAir, DTilt
Firebreath: Short burst only, best to avoid completely
Stages
- Strike: Battlefield and Lylat Cruise
- Ban: Rainbow Cruise or Brinstar
- Pick: Final Destination or Castle Siege/Smashville if Final Destination is banned
Link to discussion: {link to either the beginning of the discussion or the most detailed post}

Anything else to add? Specifically where I have question marks.

 

[MrEh]

Learn how to deal with the Nado. Very important.

 

[B!squick]

Yes. Angle your shield accordingly.

 

[Flayl]

And Mk's edge-guarding, and his shuttle loop, and his DThrow set-ups, and his planking, and his frame traps, and...

 

[Ixisnaugus]

Why was the ratio previously speculated to be 45:55 again? Why is Bowser not at the bottom of F tier where he belongs?

 

[Flayl]

Something that should probably be mentioned: Grab-releasing into the klaw for a suicide kill, good if you're really behind by % or a stock ahead.

 

[Ixisnaugus]

Something that should probably be mentioned: Grab-releasing into the klaw for a suicide kill, good if you're really behind by % or a stock ahead.

Is it possible to air release > aerial Klaw? I don't recall a time I've seen it happen before.

EDIT: Just tried it myself and no it doesn't look like it's possible.