A Dissertation on Dash Attacks and Mortar Slides
Updates: Q&A Section; Technique for No Contact and Contact Mortar Slides
Quick Preface
So, I just want to preface this by saying that even though I have a paltry 1 post on SWF, I have been lurking on these forums for quite some time. That having been said, I play a copious amount of both Brawl and Melee, and have a large amount of both competitive and recreational experience, thus I digress. Anyway the point that I want to make is that if you plan on flaming this as a n00b post, don’t. You would be incorrect in making that assumption, and I think that that attitude in general detracts from the usefulness and quality of these forums.
Analysis
Nevertheless, on to the mechanics of dash attacks and how to properly mortar slide (both with and without an enemy). Basically the dash attack consists of a low, long jumping roll executed by snake. This move covers quite a bit of ground and moves faster than Snake’s ordinary run. At the end of this attack snake will land in a crouch and then stand up providing us with modest recovery time. However, because of the mechanics of Brawl, the game registers Snake as being earthbound, despite the fact that he is airborne throughout the duration of this move. It is this fact which allows mortar sliding to even exist; ergo, if Snake is in the air he cannot perform an up-smash, therefore the game must interpret him as being on the ground. The key to the dash attack which gives the mortar slide its “slide” is that once snake has executed, and is in the middle of, a dash attack, his trajectory cannot be changed my the player: he moves identically in every dash attack. Because of this, if Snake times his up-smash so that it links from a dash into a mortar slide, he will maintain that same momentum throughout the slide, only to succumb to friction at a much further distance. However, the dash attack only accelerates positively during the first half of his trajectory; once Snake has reached the peak of the jumping roll, he begins to slow down. As such, in order to perform a proper mortar slide, one must execute the up-smash at some time between the initial grunt from Snake signaling the beginning of the dash attack and the apex of the arc of his jumping roll.
The reason that mortar sliding is easier done when an opponent is being his is that it gives the game a slight pause during which the character being attacked is dealt damage. This, in turn, prolongs the amount of time you have to execute the up-smash making it easier to mortar slide than without an enemy.
Without an enemy, the dash attack animation is significantly smaller and the window for you to execute an up-smash during the dash is consequently also must shorter. In general, the timing for a mortar slide sans opponent is to execute the up-smash IMMEDIATELY following the grunt issued from Snake’s initial dash animation. Too close to/at the same time as the grunt will result in either a) a simple running up smash or b) a simple dash attack.
In conclusion, if you skipped the above explanation simply remember the following:
The window for any mortar slide is between the grunt of the dash attack and the apex of the jumping roll,
and
Mortar sliding without an opponent requires precise timing of the up-smash to immediately follow the initial grunt of the attack.
If any of this was confusing, please let me know and I will post pictures; however, I would prefer not to do so since I am lazy.
Also, I may end up posting some sort of analysis as to the uses/usefulness of this move as well as possible ideas for mind games and stage control. Any input as to whether or not anybody wants this would of course be appreciated.
Technique for No Contact and Contact Mortar Slides
Ok, so I can't take credit for finding this method but I have seen it in this thread as well as in others and I can tell you that from learning how to do it other ways, this way is FAR simpler and easier to perform.
The best method for performing mortar slides in general is to run, press down on the C-Stick and then immediately smash up and Z. This method will work equally easily and well for both contact and no contact mortar slides. The only difference is that if you want to make a contact mortar slide, the up - Z smash should coincide with hitting your opponent, while a no contact mortar slide should be executed as quickly as possible.
In addition, this method works with the default controller setup so you can have tap-jump on (or off) if you so choose. This also works with the C-Stick set to Smashes or Tilt attacks
In my opinion, this method makes no contact mortar sliding easier than wavedashing in Melee; for people having a problem performing a no contact mortar slide, this is the best technique for you.
Other Techniques
- Run, press down on the C-Stick, then immediately flick it up (C-Stick set to smashes)
- Run, press A and then smash the control stick up while pressing A again
- Run, press A and then press up on the C-Stick (C-Stick set to smashes)
- Run, press down on the C-Stick, then smash the control stick up while pressing A
- Run, press down on the C-Stick, then smash the control stick up while pressing Z
Q&A Section
So I'll just answer questions here so people don't have to sort through the entire thread to get the answers to find what they're looking for.
Updates: Q&A Section; Technique for No Contact and Contact Mortar Slides
Quick Preface
So, I just want to preface this by saying that even though I have a paltry 1 post on SWF, I have been lurking on these forums for quite some time. That having been said, I play a copious amount of both Brawl and Melee, and have a large amount of both competitive and recreational experience, thus I digress. Anyway the point that I want to make is that if you plan on flaming this as a n00b post, don’t. You would be incorrect in making that assumption, and I think that that attitude in general detracts from the usefulness and quality of these forums.
Analysis
Nevertheless, on to the mechanics of dash attacks and how to properly mortar slide (both with and without an enemy). Basically the dash attack consists of a low, long jumping roll executed by snake. This move covers quite a bit of ground and moves faster than Snake’s ordinary run. At the end of this attack snake will land in a crouch and then stand up providing us with modest recovery time. However, because of the mechanics of Brawl, the game registers Snake as being earthbound, despite the fact that he is airborne throughout the duration of this move. It is this fact which allows mortar sliding to even exist; ergo, if Snake is in the air he cannot perform an up-smash, therefore the game must interpret him as being on the ground. The key to the dash attack which gives the mortar slide its “slide” is that once snake has executed, and is in the middle of, a dash attack, his trajectory cannot be changed my the player: he moves identically in every dash attack. Because of this, if Snake times his up-smash so that it links from a dash into a mortar slide, he will maintain that same momentum throughout the slide, only to succumb to friction at a much further distance. However, the dash attack only accelerates positively during the first half of his trajectory; once Snake has reached the peak of the jumping roll, he begins to slow down. As such, in order to perform a proper mortar slide, one must execute the up-smash at some time between the initial grunt from Snake signaling the beginning of the dash attack and the apex of the arc of his jumping roll.
The reason that mortar sliding is easier done when an opponent is being his is that it gives the game a slight pause during which the character being attacked is dealt damage. This, in turn, prolongs the amount of time you have to execute the up-smash making it easier to mortar slide than without an enemy.
Without an enemy, the dash attack animation is significantly smaller and the window for you to execute an up-smash during the dash is consequently also must shorter. In general, the timing for a mortar slide sans opponent is to execute the up-smash IMMEDIATELY following the grunt issued from Snake’s initial dash animation. Too close to/at the same time as the grunt will result in either a) a simple running up smash or b) a simple dash attack.
In conclusion, if you skipped the above explanation simply remember the following:
The window for any mortar slide is between the grunt of the dash attack and the apex of the jumping roll,
and
Mortar sliding without an opponent requires precise timing of the up-smash to immediately follow the initial grunt of the attack.
If any of this was confusing, please let me know and I will post pictures; however, I would prefer not to do so since I am lazy.
Also, I may end up posting some sort of analysis as to the uses/usefulness of this move as well as possible ideas for mind games and stage control. Any input as to whether or not anybody wants this would of course be appreciated.
Technique for No Contact and Contact Mortar Slides
Ok, so I can't take credit for finding this method but I have seen it in this thread as well as in others and I can tell you that from learning how to do it other ways, this way is FAR simpler and easier to perform.
The best method for performing mortar slides in general is to run, press down on the C-Stick and then immediately smash up and Z. This method will work equally easily and well for both contact and no contact mortar slides. The only difference is that if you want to make a contact mortar slide, the up - Z smash should coincide with hitting your opponent, while a no contact mortar slide should be executed as quickly as possible.
In addition, this method works with the default controller setup so you can have tap-jump on (or off) if you so choose. This also works with the C-Stick set to Smashes or Tilt attacks
In my opinion, this method makes no contact mortar sliding easier than wavedashing in Melee; for people having a problem performing a no contact mortar slide, this is the best technique for you.
Other Techniques
- Run, press down on the C-Stick, then immediately flick it up (C-Stick set to smashes)
- Run, press A and then smash the control stick up while pressing A again
- Run, press A and then press up on the C-Stick (C-Stick set to smashes)
- Run, press down on the C-Stick, then smash the control stick up while pressing A
- Run, press down on the C-Stick, then smash the control stick up while pressing Z
Q&A Section
So I'll just answer questions here so people don't have to sort through the entire thread to get the answers to find what they're looking for.
Actually, by far the easiest way to execute a no contact or contact mortar slide is to run, press down on the C-Stick and then immediately smash up and Z. I have found this method to be the easiest and to require much less precise timing than the other methods. This will also work with or without tap-jump on and with the C-Stick set to smashes or tilts.Is it easier using the A button or the C-stick?
Well it depends on the method that you are using to perform the slide, but in my experience you do not need to have the tap jump turned off. That having been said, it is my experience that having tap jump off makes all of these methods easier, albeit some more so than others. The method that I recommend (see above section) really isn't affected at all by the status of tap jump, however some methods are nigh impossible with tap jump turned on.Do you need to have tap jump off in order to perform a no contract mortar slide?