A Dissertation on Snake's Dash Attack and Mortar Slide

[T*H*O*R]

A Dissertation on Dash Attacks and Mortar Slides

Updates: Q&A Section; Technique for No Contact and Contact Mortar Slides

Quick Preface

So, I just want to preface this by saying that even though I have a paltry 1 post on SWF, I have been lurking on these forums for quite some time. That having been said, I play a copious amount of both Brawl and Melee, and have a large amount of both competitive and recreational experience, thus I digress. Anyway the point that I want to make is that if you plan on flaming this as a n00b post, don’t. You would be incorrect in making that assumption, and I think that that attitude in general detracts from the usefulness and quality of these forums.

Analysis

Nevertheless, on to the mechanics of dash attacks and how to properly mortar slide (both with and without an enemy). Basically the dash attack consists of a low, long jumping roll executed by snake. This move covers quite a bit of ground and moves faster than Snake’s ordinary run. At the end of this attack snake will land in a crouch and then stand up providing us with modest recovery time. However, because of the mechanics of Brawl, the game registers Snake as being earthbound, despite the fact that he is airborne throughout the duration of this move. It is this fact which allows mortar sliding to even exist; ergo, if Snake is in the air he cannot perform an up-smash, therefore the game must interpret him as being on the ground. The key to the dash attack which gives the mortar slide its “slide” is that once snake has executed, and is in the middle of, a dash attack, his trajectory cannot be changed my the player: he moves identically in every dash attack. Because of this, if Snake times his up-smash so that it links from a dash into a mortar slide, he will maintain that same momentum throughout the slide, only to succumb to friction at a much further distance. However, the dash attack only accelerates positively during the first half of his trajectory; once Snake has reached the peak of the jumping roll, he begins to slow down. As such, in order to perform a proper mortar slide, one must execute the up-smash at some time between the initial grunt from Snake signaling the beginning of the dash attack and the apex of the arc of his jumping roll.

The reason that mortar sliding is easier done when an opponent is being his is that it gives the game a slight pause during which the character being attacked is dealt damage. This, in turn, prolongs the amount of time you have to execute the up-smash making it easier to mortar slide than without an enemy.

Without an enemy, the dash attack animation is significantly smaller and the window for you to execute an up-smash during the dash is consequently also must shorter. In general, the timing for a mortar slide sans opponent is to execute the up-smash IMMEDIATELY following the grunt issued from Snake’s initial dash animation. Too close to/at the same time as the grunt will result in either a) a simple running up smash or b) a simple dash attack.

In conclusion, if you skipped the above explanation simply remember the following:

The window for any mortar slide is between the grunt of the dash attack and the apex of the jumping roll,

and

Mortar sliding without an opponent requires precise timing of the up-smash to immediately follow the initial grunt of the attack.

If any of this was confusing, please let me know and I will post pictures; however, I would prefer not to do so since I am lazy.

Also, I may end up posting some sort of analysis as to the uses/usefulness of this move as well as possible ideas for mind games and stage control. Any input as to whether or not anybody wants this would of course be appreciated.


Technique for No Contact and Contact Mortar Slides

Ok, so I can't take credit for finding this method but I have seen it in this thread as well as in others and I can tell you that from learning how to do it other ways, this way is FAR simpler and easier to perform.

The best method for performing mortar slides in general is to run, press down on the C-Stick and then immediately smash up and Z. This method will work equally easily and well for both contact and no contact mortar slides. The only difference is that if you want to make a contact mortar slide, the up - Z smash should coincide with hitting your opponent, while a no contact mortar slide should be executed as quickly as possible.

In addition, this method works with the default controller setup so you can have tap-jump on (or off) if you so choose. This also works with the C-Stick set to Smashes or Tilt attacks

In my opinion, this method makes no contact mortar sliding easier than wavedashing in Melee; for people having a problem performing a no contact mortar slide, this is the best technique for you.

Other Techniques
- Run, press down on the C-Stick, then immediately flick it up (C-Stick set to smashes)
- Run, press A and then smash the control stick up while pressing A again
- Run, press A and then press up on the C-Stick (C-Stick set to smashes)
- Run, press down on the C-Stick, then smash the control stick up while pressing A
- Run, press down on the C-Stick, then smash the control stick up while pressing Z

Q&A Section

So I'll just answer questions here so people don't have to sort through the entire thread to get the answers to find what they're looking for.

Is it easier using the A button or the C-stick?

Actually, by far the easiest way to execute a no contact or contact mortar slide is to run, press down on the C-Stick and then immediately smash up and Z. I have found this method to be the easiest and to require much less precise timing than the other methods. This will also work with or without tap-jump on and with the C-Stick set to smashes or tilts.

Do you need to have tap jump off in order to perform a no contract mortar slide?

Well it depends on the method that you are using to perform the slide, but in my experience you do not need to have the tap jump turned off. That having been said, it is my experience that having tap jump off makes all of these methods easier, albeit some more so than others. The method that I recommend (see above section) really isn't affected at all by the status of tap jump, however some methods are nigh impossible with tap jump turned on.

 

[Jeff Highwind]

Good thesis and amazing read for a first post. I'd like to test the theory myself but I'm not really dexterous enough to C-stick the up smash in such a small frame.

 

[AngeloBangelo]

I've seen many first posts on these boards.

They've ranged from "ken is scrub i beat him 2day. only 1 stock tho. hes bad lol" to accounts that mimic my forum name promising $100 money match videos to fool people into clicking the link, only to find out they've been mindgamed.

This is the best first post in the history of first posts. As they say on bodybuilding.com, "Good job dave man!"

 

[JKHDaBomb]

very nice for a first post ;P

 

[MrPhox]

well worded my friend

i don't know why so many people have a hard time with this move i find it so simple.
nothing against you bringing light to it, i'm just surprised is all.

 

[Cho?]

well worded my friend

i don't know why so many people have a hard time with this move i find it so simple.
nothing against you bringing light to it, i'm just surprised is all.

we (as in the people who find mortar sliding without an opponent) find it difficult because the timing for this move is almost instantaneous. and as jeff highwind has pointed out, some people are just not dexterous enough to do certain movements with their fingers.

 

[Xxll_The Boss_llxX]

Nice first post =O

But yeah you gotta have crisp timing to pull off the non-contact mortar-slide. People like me tend to just stick to the contact version, and sometimes do a non-contact on accident >.>

 

[strider2k]

Is it easier using the A button or the C-stick?

 

[Ragnorok64]

The only way I've been able to do the no contact mortar slide at full speed is to start the dash, flick the C-stick down while moving the direction stick up (I have tap jump off), them I immediately slide my thumb up and hit A for the up smash. It's the only way I've gotten it to work.

It's so frustrating because I can get a direction + A mortar slide pretty consistently at 2/3 speed but that extra 33% of speed destroys me.

 

[Zjiin]

The mortar slide does take a while to get accustomed to, but once you start getting it and practice it, you will catch on in no time. I'm currently working on the fastest you can possibly do this and doing it perfect everytime.

For those of you who are interested in near frame perfect dashing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUyVlILgjrQ

Practice makes perfect!

 

[FS Fantom]

I have tap jump off and just go C-stick right/left to C-stick up during a dash to do no-contact mortars.

I guess using A to do the dash attack then quickly switching to analog up and continually mashing A could work as well.

 

[yeb]

I have a suggestion. Since this is probably the best post on the mortar slide, maybe you could keep a list of all the different techniques for pulling it off in the first post? It'd help people find the method that's easiest for them. All the ones I know are:

1. Dash, hit A, flick the c-stick up
2. Dash, hit A, move the analog stick to up/up-forward, hit A again
3. Dash and hold up-forward, flick the c-stick down, hit Z
4. Dash, flick the c-stick down/left/right, then flick the c-stick up

Note that with tap-jumping off, holding up-forward counts as input for a running upsmash. Very useful for methods 2 and 3. I actually think 3's the easiest method when holding up-forward the whole time, because none of your fingers have to do two different things. The only problem is that if you mistime it, you could get a grab animation; I imagine that's less likely with the classic controller, if it has a less gimpy Z button. There's probably more ways if you change around the controls a bit too.

Does anyone use the 1st method for empty slides? (my Street Fighter-inspired term for mortar sliding without hitting the dash attack >_>) It's probably the most obvious method, but it just doesn't seem fast enough to me without the pause you get from hitting something.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Is it easier using the A button or the C-stick?

That depends on you. I find it easier to hit the A button instead. I tap A while running, then immediately tap A again as if I was button mashing it like a turbo controller and tap up simultaneously. I don't have the timing down perfect for the non-contact Mortar Slide yet, but this method works for me. You should get the no contact slide on your first tap after the tap for the dash attack. If not, you are too slow. Practice does make perfect. My sucess rate has gone from 3% to 30% by practicing in the Online practice stage.

 

[jdub03]

I find the best way to mortar slide with contact or not is to dash hit diagonal-up right on the stick then quickly press c-stick up. unless Im online and its laggy I get it everytime.

 

[Trip.]

If you hit down on the C-Stick and then Up on the Control Stick and Z it works really easy.

With or without a opponent.

You can also change the distance of the slide.

 

[mr_kennedy44]

If you hit down on the C-Stick and then Up on the Control Stick and Z it works really easy.

With or without a opponent.

You can also change the distance of the slide.

This is what I do. I can do it 95% of the time I try it using this method.

 

[ziadie]

I was devistated by this simple move today. I was astonished lol. I had never lost so badly. x_X

 

[Goldkirby]

Wait, people think it's hard to mortar slide with tap jump on? Mortar sliding is really easy imo, all you have to do is quickly press forward on the control stick, press the c-stick and then press up+Z at around the same time. Snake's dash canceled to upsmash is the easiest one to do in the game. I like the default controls just fine.

 

[jdub03]

I think if you get used to hitting c-stick up right(diagonal) or up left(diagonal) then hitting up on the c-stick you'll get it almost everytime. Theres less distance to move your finger so you can hit it quicker.

 

[abit_rusty]

This is excellent. Needs a sticky to prevent future repeating inquiries about the mortar slide. **** good first post.

 

[kevc]

I've seen many first posts on these boards.

They've ranged from "ken is scrub i beat him 2day. only 1 stock tho. hes bad lol" to accounts that mimic my forum name promising $100 money match videos to fool people into clicking the link, only to find out they've been mindgamed.

This is the best first post in the history of first posts. As they say on bodybuilding.com, "Good job dave man!"

wow someones aware here

 

[Freezrbrn]

With all of this "c-stick" talk, I'm going to assume that it's alot easier with the GC controller than it is with just the wiimote. Any tips for doing this with just the wiimote? Anyone?

 

[abit_rusty]

With all of this "c-stick" talk, I'm going to assume that it's alot easier with the GC controller than it is with just the wiimote. Any tips for doing this with just the wiimote? Anyone?

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=163001

 

[Freezrbrn]

thanks abunch abit

 

[Ace83]

i have never really had trouble using c-over then c-up for the mortar slide. for charged mortar slide i just use A then A+up very fast. i'm sure there are easier ways but i can do these every time, so i'm gonna stick with it.

 

[jamesyla]

I don't know how you're all doing it so well and making it sound so simple!

I can do the contact 95% of the time using A to C-Stick Up. I've been having problems with the no contact one though.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

I knew I forgot to tell you guys something. If you want to do the non-contact mortar slide using only the analog stick and the A button, Tap jump must be off. I find this way very easy for me. I bumped this because this is important for all to know.

 

[Zjiin]

I knew I forgot to tell you guys something. If you want to do the non-contact mortar slide using only the analog stick and the A button, Tap jump must be off and the C stick must be set to anything but Smash(preferably Special). I find this way very easy for me. I bumped this because this is important for all to know.

That's exactly how i do it. I don't turn tap jump off to do it though, i just like having tap jump off. IMO it's the fastest way you can do it.

 

[Newuser12345215]

we (as in the people who find mortar sliding without an opponent) find it difficult because the timing for this move is almost instantaneous. and as jeff highwind has pointed out, some people are just not dexterous enough to do certain movements with their fingers.

Actually, you have about a 0.5-1 seconds to do it while he's doing his "Dash Attack" animation.

Sheik's Dash Attack > Up Smash thing is almost instantaneous and harder to pull off, with Sheik's you have half the time to do it with Snake's.

Fortunately, Snake's isn't too hard to pull off compared to Sheik's,

Here's how I do it the technique(easily):
Note: I am saying basically the same thing as the first post, only real difference is I set R(or Z) to Attack instead of Grab. And instead of using the C-Stick + Z, I just use the movement stick + Z.

1. Gamecube or Classic controller: I put the R button to Attack, putting the Z/ZR button to Grab. You can reverse it if you want, you can put the Z button to Attack while putting R button to Grab. (Note: We won't be using Grab, we're just using the Attack button)

Note you can use either Grab or Attack to do the Up Smash, you can't use Grab + Up to slide Upsmash with Sheik though, which is why I set it to Attack. Also you can charge it with Attack.

So first put the R or Z button to Attack. This will be the button you'll be using the Up Smash with.

2. C stick to Smash. R or Z to Attack. Ok, first do a dash by pressing left or right twice, then hold it so he stays running/dashing.

3. While Dashing, move the "C-stick" either down or sideways, Snake will perform a Dash Attack(he'll do a rolling attack).

4. While doing his Dash Attack, immediately press "R" button and "Up"(With the movement Stick), you can hold it if you want to charge it, Snake will then do his Up Smash while sliding really far.

5. If you have trouble doing it, just keep trying. If you want, go to training mode, set the speed to 1/2 or 1/4. Do all the steps above, except you don't have to do it as fast, just wait until Snake enters the "Dash Attack" animation, then just press "R + Up" to do a Smash and you'll do it. Remember to use the C-stick(on Smash) and tilt it sideways or down to do the Dash Attack, don't press A or R to do a dash attack, use only the C-stick.

Remember, you can only do it after you do the Dash Attack, you can't do the Dash Attack and Up Smash at the same time.


Here's the run down on things again:

First put the R or Z button to Attack. This will be the button you'll be using the Up Smash with.

Do a Dash. Tilt the C-stick down or sideways to do a Dash Attack. During the Dash Attack(you have 0.5-1 seconds to pull it off), press R(attack) + Up to do an Upsmash.

 

[abit_rusty]

In case anyone wants to try a different method...I use A to dash attack and immediately hit Z+up(on analog). I can get it probably 4 out of every 5 tries, which is consistent enough for me.

Also, probably been mentioned but it helps a lot if you practice the timing at a slower speed in training mode.

 

[StoleUrCar]

I was practin' a TON today and i think finally got no contact mortar slide to work consistently! Thx THOR

*~rates thread 5~*

 

[Deception]

Is there a reason to press Z while up smahing? Because I've been able to mortar slide without pressing Z. So is there a point in pressing besides charging my up smash?

 

[Jeff Highwind]

It's to charge the Mortar, which has good applications if used right.

 

[Schpeltiger]

Very good post, I've gotten to be great at mortar sliding now because of it.

 

[Sythe]

I personally find it easiest to dash, c-stick down then A-Smash up.
Or Dash, press A, then c-stick up.

With both those ways, if I do it casually, but fast. I get a perfect no contact Mortar slide all the time.

 

[Nokes]

I have a suggestion. Since this is probably the best post on the mortar slide, maybe you could keep a list of all the different techniques for pulling it off in the first post? It'd help people find the method that's easiest for them. All the ones I know are:

1. Dash, hit A, flick the c-stick up
2. Dash, hit A, move the analog stick to up/up-forward, hit A again
3. Dash and hold up-forward, flick the c-stick down, hit Z
4. Dash, flick the c-stick down/left/right, then flick the c-stick up



Having a list would be very helpful and the third sequence is by far the easiest way to perform a non-contact mortar slide (although it requires tap jump off)

 

[Depressed Man]

Just tried it on a GCN controller (I normally use Wiimote + Nunchuck) and man does using C stick down + up +Z work 100% for me. I might get a classic controller to see if there's any easy way to do it with that.

 

[Shibby]

This no contact is tough ...

I can probably get it 50% at 1/2 speed

It is just the timing is so weird ...

any have some tips?

I can pretty much 100% the contact slide but the no contact is tough at first ...

 

[abit_rusty]

This no contact is tough ...

I can probably get it 50% at 1/2 speed

It is just the timing is so weird ...

any have some tips?

I can pretty much 100% the contact slide but the no contact is tough at first ...

Umm..just keep practicing and gradually increase your speed in training mode. I know it's difficult at first but believe me it will soon be second nature.

Just a quick check:
-Did you turn off tap jump?
-Specifically, which method are you using for the no-contact slide?

 

[Nokes]

An interesting thing about Snakes non-contact mortar slide is that, if u place a mine a little more then a roll from yourself, you can mortar slide through it without taking damage but it still explodes. This can used to catch your opponent off guard.