Social 7th Heaven - Cloud Social Thread

[JesseMcCloud]

Snake still fit into the game well. If he returned (please god please) he would still fit in.

I wouldn't mind him coming back, but I'd rather see Wolf and Isaac first.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Playing FFVII as a teenager was a vastly different experience when compared to playing it as an adult. The gravity and weight of the **** you do and see in that game is decidedly darker than other games in the series, barring Kefka and his brand of crazy.

One hundred percent agree with you here. I was on the teenaged "de-hype 7" train for the longest time until I actually hunkered down and reflected on the content. It was a pretty jarring revelation, not gonna lie, and it made me appreciate 7 that much more.

JesseMcCloud

But see, the way I look at it, Snake wasn't neutered at all. The smoking (another edit: I guess as an item, they were important, I'll give you that) and the guns don't really define him as a character. Hell I'd argue that the Nikita rocket launcher, a series mainstay, is more iconic than any of the other sidearms Snake carries. Same with the grenades and his 1-2-kick combo from MGS1 and 2 and his grabs.

I guess to each their own about the "ultraviolence" thing. I didn't feel like Kojima put in violent themes just for the hell of it in the MGS games (Ground Zeroes and TPP, arguably the bloodiest in the series, didn't even reach that level). It's the gravity of it, the theme of it; it's one of the many complex points of its narrative. You're never directly encouraged to kill (save for boss/midboss fights where it's unavoidable, like in MGS1, for example)---you're on a sneaking mission, after all. You can elect to sneak in and slaughter bunches, or you can actually ghost your way through without (permanently) harming a soul. Player faculty/choice has a lot to do with the Metal Gear games.

Revengeance, on the other hand, was a ridiculous game on all kinds of levels anyways, and imo is a Metal Gear game in name only. Of course it embraced ultraviolence; that was the whole point of it, really, as a hack-and-slash kinda thing. I don't mind games like this, but...well. A lot of my issues with this game didn't stem from that. It was largely kinda repetitive gameplay-wise outside of the boss fights (which were actually really fun), and I won't even get into how awful the plot was in Revengeance and how they ruined Raiden's character even further after MGS4...

BUT HEY

Smooth Criminal

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Smooth Criminal
Okay, perhaps "neutered" isn't the best term. I thought I read somewhere though that his inclusion was made more difficult because of Sakurai's anti-gun policies.

Perhaps this is where I should confess I've never played any of the MGS titles...

But I feel like we're agreeing on the point that darker/heavier (i.e., mature) themes aren't always adult, as in too violent or otherwise inappropriate for children, and violence for the sake of violence doesn't instantly make a game compelling or better from a narrative perspective.

 

[Drakonis]

Random questions ahead:

So do you guys prefer Final Fantasy's that allow full freedom with the customization of the main character? What I mean is, the ability to equip the main character with any weapon type and class in the game? Or do you prefer preset classes and/or weapons for each character (such as Cloud being limited to broad/greatswords)?

Also, what's your favorite final fantasy class?

I usually like some costumization, but it has to fit within what the game wants to do. What's important to me is that if you limit customization, the character should stand out gameplay-wise.
FFVII uses the materia as customization and limit breaks as the thing that makes the characters unique, so I'm pretty fine with that mix.
FFV lacks something like the limit break system or some defining gamepay factor for it's characters, aside from them building a repertoire as they gain jobs. But that's not who they are, that's what you make of them. And because of that, the characters feel a little... flat to me. Don't get me wrong, I still like all 5 of them, and FFV is an amazing game (currently playing through it :3 ) but I wish they could've had some more "meat" to them, so to speak.
Or, alternatively, they could have opted to make them fully customizable with only hints of character development. As it stands, it's kind of middle of the road.

As for Classes:
For looks and style Dragoon, Knight and Paladin, for gameplay... hm. That'd be harder. Depends on the circumstances and game, really. Though I love me some Blue Magic, so I'd say Blue Mage? Learning new Blue Magic spells is always exciting (untill they turn out to be really situational).
But Big Guard, Aqualung and White Wind are always awesome.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

But I feel like we're agreeing on the point that darker/heavier (i.e., mature) themes aren't always adult, as in too violent or otherwise inappropriate for children, and violence for the sake of violence doesn't instantly make a game compelling or better from a narrative perspective.

And you are correct!

Smooth Criminal

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Anyone else think there should be a T-15 rating for games like Uncharted, Halo, and Arkham Knight?

 

[SonicvMario]

Anyone else think there should be a T-15 rating for games like Uncharted, Halo, and Arkham Knight?

Those are all 16+ in Europe other than Arkham Knight which is 18 so I'd have to agree

 

[shinhed-echi]

I dunno.. FFV has the most immersive battle system of them all. There are just so many different combinations of JOB + ABILITY to try out, that the replay value goes through the ceiling. (At least if you like this sort of freedom, otherwise, just stick to what works best for you).

-

BTW, There are a few Dragon Quest titles on sale on the Google Play Store, if anyone is into them (and into playing them on mobiles).
DQ2, DQ3, DQ4, and DQ8 are all 50% off!

Just snatched DQ3 because it was the more expensive one that I could at least afford with my current wallet balance.
Although it's probably the one I've played the most. Nes / Snes, and now I'll be playing this version.

 

[Drakonis]

I dunno.. FFV has the most immersive battle system of them all. There are just so many different combinations of JOB + ABILITY to try out, that the replay value goes through the ceiling. (At least if you like this sort of freedom, otherwise, just stick to what works best for you).

-

BTW, There are a few Dragon Quest titles on sale on the Google Play Store, if anyone is into them (and into playing them on mobiles).
DQ2, DQ3, DQ4, and DQ8 are all 50% off!

Just snatched DQ3 because it was the more expensive one that I could at least afford with my current wallet balance.
Although it's probably the one I've played the most. Nes / Snes, and now I'll be playing this version.

Oh, don't misunderstand me.
The job system in FFV is freaking fantastic.
I just wished the characters would have some distinguishing gameplay characteristic aside form maybe base stats (don't even know if they do that).

 

[praline]

Oh, don't misunderstand me.
The job system in FFV is freaking fantastic.
I just wished the characters would have some distinguishing gameplay characteristic aside form maybe base stats (don't even know if they do that).

The characters do have different base stats but they're not that different really if I recall correctly.

 

[Drakonis]

The characters do have different base stats but they're not that different really if I recall correctly.

I'm pretty sure Galuf has poor speed, since I remember Krile being noticably faster.
The rest of 'em at least don't feel different.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

I gotta say that I liked VII's the best (I know, I know: fanboy).
Every character was unique with their equipment and Limit Breaks, but you could customize them to your liking too. Want your warrior be a blue mage? Give Cloud your E. Skill materia! Want a ninja-thief-white mage? Toss some green materia Yuffie's way! Want a black-mage Dragoon? Give Cid a Long-Range materia and you're all set!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

As someone without FF experience I can't say which is the best. However, IV, V, VI, VII and IX seem to be some of the best

 

[JesseMcCloud]

As someone without FF experience I can't say which is the best. However, IV, V, VI, VII and IX seem to be some of the best

And XII.

 

[meleebrawler]

I gotta say that I liked VII's the best (I know, I know: fanboy).
Every character was unique with their equipment and Limit Breaks, but you could customize them to your liking too. Want your warrior be a blue mage? Give Cloud your E. Skill materia! Want a ninja-thief-white mage? Toss some green materia Yuffie's way! Want a black-mage Dragoon? Give Cid a Long-Range materia and you're all set!

The Lifestream can take a few more experimental Materia, can't it?

 

[Strong-Arm]

XII is so underrated. I dont understand all the hate it gets.

 

[praline]

XII is so underrated. I dont understand all the hate it gets.

I didn't like it cause the main dude annoyed me. lol

 

[Strong-Arm]

I didn't like it cause the main dude annoyed me. lol

Actually imo Vaan isnt the main protagonist, Ashe is. The story just has you see things from a different characters perspective. Also Gabranth and the judges are so awesome.

 

[praline]

Actually imo Vaan isnt the main protagonist, Ashe is. The story just has you see things from a different characters perspective. Also Gabranth and the judges are so awesome.

Oh I know but Vaan is the main male of the game.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

XII? I've never heard anything except I think Jecht, though I'm probably mixing up games

 

[Drakonis]

XII? I've never heard anything except I think Jecht, though I'm probably mixing up games

Jecht is from X.

From everything I heard from XII Vaan was really supurflous. As in he had no stakes in the plot at all and was the character the game focused on because... , while the real protagonists where Ashe and Balthier.
While a good story does not need to revolve around a specific character (like FFVII does, for example), the viewpoint character should at least have some reason to be there.
Zidane from IX is a good example. The story itself is a lot more about Garnet, but Zidane does not only play a part in that but he also gets his own plot spreading off of that later on.

 

[Dhragen]

I didn't like it cause the main dude annoyed me. lol

how you can be annoyed by Captain Basch fon Ronsenburg of Dalmasca?! Please don't listen to Ondore's lies..
(yeah, said that meme, come at me, spoony bards)

Anyway......what if we share some old flash videos from newgrounds related to final fantasy.......i feel so old watching them again.......more than 10 years? -.-

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Jecht is from X.

From everything I heard from XII Vaan was really supurflous. As in he had no stakes in the plot at all and was the character the game focused on because... , while the real protagonists where Ashe and Balthier.
While a good story does not need to revolve around a specific character (like FFVII does, for example), the viewpoint character should at least have some reason to be there.
Zidane from IX is a good example. The story itself is a lot more about Garnet, but Zidane does not only play a part in that but he also gets his own plot spreading off of that later on.

...Which means Jecht isn't the main villain as Seymour was in X. I REALLY need to brush up my lore

 

[shinhed-echi]

Oh, don't misunderstand me.
The job system in FFV is freaking fantastic.
I just wished the characters would have some distinguishing gameplay characteristic aside form maybe base stats (don't even know if they do that).

Oh, right. I gotcha.
Maybe they could have expanded upon that a bit.
Kind of like in FFVI, where everyone can learn every magic spell, but every character has their own unique command ability?
That was very entertaining.

Bartz could have gotten something related to Chocobos. Galuf could have gotten something related to his world.
Leena something related to dragons, maybe? And Faris to the ocean.

Hopefully in a possible, theoretical, FF5 remake in the vein of FF4 that I'm still waiting for.


BTW, does anyone remember Dead Fantasy? All of these FF related things that come back to me now that I'm an FF dork again.

 

[VPTurnip]

Favorite FF? IX easily. Great characters ( none of that VII "We don't have time for anyone but Cloud and Sephi " garbage, my biggest complaint about 7 is how poorly it treats it's side characters ;_; ) amazing music, IMO the best story in the franchise, and the overall feeling of it. The only flaw 9 has is Trance being so bad compared to Limit Break, 7 did that so much better.

For nostalgia value, V would be second. Great party and humor, and really fun job switching gameplay.


I rather like 7, but I can never get past it's poor handling of characters with a lot of potential. >_>; Just left a sour taste in my mouth.
If Aerith, Sephi and Yuffie had been stronger characters I think my opinion on the game would go way up. Maybe the remake will fix that though? Give them some more time? Hopefully. Still had great music though xD

Best villain has to be Kefka.

Spoiler

What other villain has actually succeeded? Pretty great stuff

 

[praline]

Favorite FF? IX easily. Great characters (none of that VII "We don't have time for anyone but Cloud and Sephi " garbage, my biggest complaint about 7 is how poorly it treats it's side characters ;w amazing music, IMO the best story in the franchise, and the overall feeling of it. The only flaw 9 has is Trance being so bad compared to Limit Break, 7 did that so much better.

For nostalgia value, V would be second. Great party and humor, and really fun job switching gameplay.


I rather like 7, but I can never get past it's poor handling of characters with a lot of potential. >_>; Just left a sour taste in my mouth.
If Aerith, Sephi and Yuffie had been stronger characters I think my opinion on the game would go way up. Maybe the remake will fix that though? Give them some more time? Hopefully. Still had great music though xD

Best villain has to be Kefka.

Spoiler

What other villain has actually succeeded? Pretty great stuff

Well technically Kefka only delayed his defeat.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

lol I read that Kuja apparently was going to be female. I guess his Trance form KINDA looks like it has breasts but that's just fur. It's interesting how you can never beat him

 

[VPTurnip]

That's true, it was just delaying the inevitable.
Also lol at female Kuja. There's probably a picture of that somewhere.

 

[praline]

Kuja should have been a female. More female villains would be better since they only really have the villain off ff 8

 

[Morbi]

Kuja should have been a female. More female villains would be better since they only really have the villain off ff 8

Final Fantasy VII also had a great female villain.

#SorryNotSorry

 

[praline]

Final Fantasy VII also had a great female villain.

#SorryNotSorry

That was a good one.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Well technically Kefka only delayed his defeat.

Kefka, though...

Spoiler

Yeah, well, he still devastated the whole world! Terra and Co.'s eventual victory against him was hopeful, but it was a desolate kinda hope. Kinda like 7's ending where they won, but at what cost?

One of the reasons I liked Kefka over Sephiroth was mainly because of his insanity. He wanted to see the world burn for the sake of seeing it. There was no outward force compelling him to do so, aside it being hinted that his research into magitech poisoned his already kinda-bent mind. He just wanted to tear down the stricture, the structure, pretty much everything about the world to satisfy his own warped curiosities. And after being at the top of the totem pole, achieving his goals and his ends, he got bored with being a godlike being! Like...call me crazy, but like, I really enjoyed that little wrinkle. You don't see very many baddies get what they want and realize that it's not enough that they get ****ing bored of it, lol

But I liked Sephiroth, too. Of the two he probably had the most compelling reasons to wreck havoc on ****. Just...I liked Kefka's aesthetic and modus operandi a little more. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Ffamran]

Actually imo Vaan isnt the main protagonist, Ashe is. The story just has you see things from a different characters perspective. Also Gabranth and the judges are so awesome.

I thought Basch was supposed to be the main character or at least the "player character" or the decoy protagonist while the game focused on Ashe. At least, that's what I remember from what was said about the early drafts of the game.

Final Fantasy VII also had a great female villain.

#SorryNotSorry

I KNEW IT! It was Tifa all along! She was in cahoots with Sephiroth to kill off Aerith so she could have Cloud to herself!

 

[Strong-Arm]

Ok, call me crazy but I think (or at least hope) we get Cloud next week.

On the topic of FF villains Gabranth, and Golbez are my favorites.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

I thought Basch was supposed to be the main character or at least the "player character" or the decoy protagonist while the game focused on Ashe. At least, that's what I remember from what was said about the early drafts of the game.


I KNEW IT! It was Tifa all along! She was in cahoots with Sephiroth to kill off Aerith so she could have Cloud to herself!

Basch was the real deal. Nothing like giving him a katana, Genji Gloves, and berserking him. Hardly anything could kill him, and if he attacked things without a weapon, he'd just KNEE THEM IN THE FACE. Basch=Captain Falcon confirmed.

Ok, call me crazy but I think (or at least hope) we get Cloud next week.

On the topic of FF villains Gabranth, and Golbez are my favorites.

A bit optimistic there, but I'd love it too.

 

[Strong-Arm]

I imagine the direct will be in the first week of december, which is next week. I hope we get a hype filled direct.

 

[VPTurnip]

I agree Sephiroth had more of a reason, but I just..
I can't bring myself to like him. Never been big on characters with such.. interesting.. backstories.
I think it's just I'm not a big fan of a lot of the tropes used for him is all.

And yeah, okay, you could argue a lot of the same with Kuja, but.. I dunno, his worked more for me. Though I'm not a fan of it either, at least it didn't feel like a cop-out to the main character like I felt with 7.

 

[Drakonis]

Favorite FF? IX easily. Great characters ( none of that VII "We don't have time for anyone but Cloud and Sephi " garbage, my biggest complaint about 7 is how poorly it treats it's side characters ;_;

Wat.

That is the first time I heard anybody complain about the side characters in VII being flat.

I mean, on the surface level, you spend the whole game with Cloud's revenge quest against Sephiroth. But in actuality, that's like 6 scenes in total (Nibelheim flashback, Junon and Ship, Temple of the Ancients, Forgotten City, First visit to North Crater, Endgame).
And between these scenes is an entire game where you do nothing but things pertaining to your other party members. Even of those scenes I just mentioned, half are also directly linked to another character! Nibelheim Flashback and North Crater are also important to Tifa, while Temple of the Ancients and Forgotten City are also important plot moments for Aerith.

The only two characters I could faintly see being a bit less developed are Yuffie and Vincent, but Yuffie still gets an entire area devoted to her plot, and Vincent ties pretty neatly into the main story. And both have their own lines for specific situations like every other party member.
And they are both optional. Considering other games' (even in the FF series) optional characters, that's pretty damn extensive.

 

[praline]

I imagine the direct will be in the first week of december, which is next week. I hope we get a hype filled direct.

That would be hype as ****.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Wat.

That is the first time I heard anybody complain about the side characters in VII being flat.

I mean, on the surface level, you spend the whole game with Cloud's revenge quest against Sephiroth. But in actuality, that's like 6 scenes in total (Nibelheim flashback, Junon and Ship, Temple of the Ancients, Forgotten City, First visit to North Crater, Endgame).
And between these scenes is an entire game where you do nothing but things pertaining to your other party members. Even of those scenes I just mentioned, half are also directly linked to another character! Nibelheim Flashback and North Crater are also important to Tifa, while Temple of the Ancients and Forgotten City are also important plot moments for Aerith.

The only two characters I could faintly see being a bit less developed are Yuffie and Vincent, but Yuffie still gets an entire area devoted to her plot, and Vincent ties pretty neatly into the main story. And both have their own lines for specific situations like every other party member.
And they are both optional. Considering other games' (even in the FF series) optional characters, that's pretty damn extensive.

Vincent's story was pretty fleshed out... in Dirge of Cerberus.