Social 7th Heaven - Cloud Social Thread

[GHNeko]

instead of spotdodging, I end up shielding too long because I still have a desire to wavedash out of shield to bait and punish approaches.

For the most part I've learned not to sit in shield too long but its more of a trained thought so when I turn my brain off, I go right back to sitting in shield.

I love Melee/PM too much guys ;_;

Still, I just don't get it. Cloud actually has a projectile move, while Marth does not, and they don't exactly share their attack sweetspot locations either.

Like I said, the similiarities arent superficial. So stuff like marth's tipper system and cloud having a projectile fall under superficial because its just face value differences.

You have to understand the competitive meta of Melee Marth and Cloud at least at mid tier player level.

Any less than that and you cant try the line between the dots.

 

[~Skelly~]

Late to this chat (and possibly not relevant) but, mfw people play a character for their competitive aspect:

I know it's not the only reason most of you play Cloud, but if it's the MAIN reason, like, it's higher on the priority list than "I play this character because I like them", then you're playing Smash for the wrong reasons. Just sayin'.

Plus, I have to agree with M&S on this, I barely see the similarites between Cloud and Melee Marth. They're there, but Melee Marth did not come to mind when I was playing Cloud, and it still hasn't.

 

[mario123007]

Plus, I have to agree with M&S on this, I barely see the similarites between Cloud and Melee Marth. They're there, but Melee Marth did not come to mind when I was playing Cloud, and it still hasn't.

I have to agree as well, Melee Marth has more attack range than Cloud, and moves are different.

 

[-m0]

Never played Melee Marth so I wouldn't know. Or Brawl Marth for that matter.

What do you do when you encounter a bad Cloud player in FG? You know, the ones that run right in with DA and fsmash too much? I feel personally offended when I meet these lol.

 

[GHNeko]

I dont know how you guys cant tell the similarities been Melee Marth and Cloud lol.

Also I've said on 2 seperate occasions that comparing their moveset is only a superficial comparison.

I even listed reasons on how they feel similar lol.

 

[~Skelly~]

I dont know how you guys cant tell the similarities been Melee Marth and Cloud lol.

Also I've said on 2 seperate occasions that comparing their moveset is only a superficial comparison.

I even listed reasons on how they feel similar lol.

Never said anything about them being similar moveset-wise.

As for them "feeling" similar, sorry man, I'm not really feeling it. They just don't to me.

If they do feel similar to you, that's fine, I'm not going to sway you otherwise.

 

[-m0]

Is it all right if I dump a bunch of Cloud pictures here in the near future? Just had some cool screenshots I wanted to put here, is that ok? Who knows, you guys might find some new avis in there!

 

[KevN くコ:彡]

Take a look at this.

 

[GHNeko]

That's actually pretty neat.

 

[~Skelly~]

Is it all right if I dump a bunch of Cloud pictures here in the near future? Just had some cool screenshots I wanted to put here, is that ok? Who knows, you guys might find some new avis in there!

I don't see why you can't. Just put them under a spoiler tag if there's more than at least 3, that way we can save space and not have to scroll down an unnecessarily long page.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Never said anything about them being similar moveset-wise.

As for them "feeling" similar, sorry man, I'm not really feeling it. They just don't to me.

If they do feel similar to you, that's fine, I'm not going to sway you otherwise.

Much like you, I just don't see how Marth and Cloud are similar. Their movesets are completely different after all.

And of course, the way I've used Cloud is different from how I've used Marth and Lucina.

 

[Shaya]

Well, screw melee Marth.
Cloud is an easier version of Brawl Marth; with nearly 1:1 game play style and decision making processes. What comes from dissimilar moves usually is made up by the similarities of their high-level options they both have in many many situations.

Obviously Brawl Marth didn't charge limit (but he still optimized around passivity), have a projectile (which is apart of his passivity and is not like other character's projectiles, lol).
Marth covered/poked space with down tilt, while Cloud uses his insane dash to shield.
You wouldn't get how they're essentially achieving the same thing and forcing the opponent to play around them in the same way unless you understand higher level concepts.

What they do after successful use of dtilt or dash to shield to apply pressure or throw off the opponent is observably more congruent. How the opponent challenges and beats them will generally be exactly the same as well.
But on success, suddenly arcing swords, arcing swords EVERYWHERE - in all the places you don't want them to be. Or whoops, never mind *grab*; gotchaaaaaa.

And while Marth had to rely on forward air, nair and sometimes up air, Cloud can achieve similar things just with his neutral air (yes: this is why the character is easier, you can achieve everything Marth can in 3 moves in just 1, bar raw killing)
Yes the 'attack' button press is different, but almost everything else from what I'm thinking to what the opponent's thinking and what's going to happen next is all the same ****.

 

[GHNeko]

"Screw Melee Marth"

Shaya you wound my delicate heart.

 

[Shaya]

Well, to clarify, Marth's fair in that game did everything so it's almost like Cloud's nair now
But asides from the absurd single well known kill move (melee tipper fsmash / limit cross slash), Cloud's packing a lot more punch on average and doesn't hyperfocus on grabs for a lot of his viability.

But my point was more that Brawl Marth is closer.
Albeit the "easier" and "stronger" parts of Cloud probably take steps towards MeleeMarf, I guess~

 

[-m0]

I asked this one guy at tournament "Where's the win button?" His reply was, "It's on the GameCube controller."


y u do dis
cricricri

 

[Prevaricator Faust]

I asked this one guy at tournament "Where's the win button?" His reply was, "It's on the GameCube controller."


y u do dis
cricricri

Should of responded with "I thought that was the detonator for those who choose to SD" or something along those lines. . .

 

[-m0]

Or "but you can't do bidou on the GC controller, and bidou is obviously a free win, so yeah..."

I mean, you can't do it on 3ds either...

 

[Chalice]

PC Adaptor came in this morning

Time to download Melee oohhhhh boi havent played this ever since I was 10-12 years old where I was still innocent and had yet to see the brutality of competitive Melee

Edit: Holy **** is the input timings for movement and attacks different. Not being able to customize controller configs is also a problem.

 

[-m0]

PC Adaptor came in this morning

Time to download Melee oohhhhh boi havent played this ever since I was 10-12 years old where I was still innocent and had yet to see the brutality of competitive Melee

Edit: Holy **** is the input timings for movement and attacks different. Not being able to customize controller configs is also a problem.

Yeah the one time I played Melee I saw there was no option for config and I put the controller down lel

 

[Chalice]

So I got Dash Dancing and Wave Dashing down

Gotta learn to L Cancel

Then the hard part is combining everything together smoothly

And I haven't even gotten to the Ken Combo yet lol

 

[Prevaricator Faust]

So I got Dash Dancing and Wave Dashing down

Gotta learn to L Cancel

Then the hard part is combining everything together smoothly

And I haven't even gotten to the Ken Combo yet lol

I wish you all the luck my friend

 

[GHNeko]

I actually still L-Cancel in Smash 4.

Like there are times I'm playing and I realize I'm pressing L when I land with aerials.

Which is funny to me.

 

[BlueX]

I am so used to L-Canceling in Melee. I also sometimes press L whenever i use an aerial in Smash 4.

Meleetitis is a thing.

 

[GHNeko]

Cloud in Melee would be totally Kreygasm tho

 

[Shaya]

L cancelled nair


INTO AN L CANCELLED NAIR.

INTO AN L CANCELLED NAIR.

INTO AN UP AIR THAT YOU AUTO CANCEL

INTO FINISHING TOUCH

EVERY TIME

 

[mario123007]

PC Adaptor came in this morning

Time to download Melee oohhhhh boi havent played this ever since I was 10-12 years old where I was still innocent and had yet to see the brutality of competitive Melee

Edit: Holy **** is the input timings for movement and attacks different. Not being able to customize controller configs is also a problem.

Download Melee? How to?
Well, I still have my old Melee copy, but it takes time for it to work, and in some cases it might crash.

Or "but you can't do bidou on the GC controller, and bidou is obviously a free win, so yeah..."

I mean, you can't do it on 3ds either...

Yeah, but some competitive wannabes will brag: "Only losers will use 3ds" which sometimes is not really the cases. I do saw very good players who actually use 3ds as controller.
I consider that bidou as a "make your life easier" control trick. Not a "If you don't learn this you won't be good" control trick.
The bidou discovery might be shake the stereotype of where GC controller is the best Smash controller in competitive play, if someone do use this to win tons of tournaments.

 

[8383d3 90 90 10 hundred]

going in for bidou cloud
made a thread
lonely lol

 

[GHNeko]

You'd be hard pressed to find people willing to commit to Bidou period.

Let alone for Cloud who is prob one of the least technically demanding characters outside of Limit Cancels. While PP and other Bidou tech help Cloud out for sure, his fox trot length, speed, and general moveset are already so naturally good that the effort:reward ratio for learning bidou is more unfavorable than other characters.

L cancelled nair


INTO AN L CANCELLED NAIR.

INTO AN L CANCELLED NAIR.

INTO AN UP AIR THAT YOU AUTO CANCEL

INTO FINISHING TOUCH

EVERY TIME

That would be way more fun than it sounds.

 

[~Skelly~]

going in for bidou cloud
made a thread
lonely lol

Using Bidou with Cloud is like a spear with no spearhead: There's no point.

Like Neko said, Cloud, with all of his tools, frame data, disjoints, etc; is really good in competitive on his own merits. It also helps that he's easy to pick up and use. Bidou has been pretty much confirmed to only marginally improve Cloud.

So why put in that much work for little payoff?

 

[Chalice]

Can we not make me rant about how pointless Bidou is for Cloud again? The tech is only good for characters like who really need the perfect pivots and dash innovations to open up new stuff for their meta

Even then, like ZeRo said, how can you tell top players to drop their natural muscle memory and relearn Smash controls all over again and then try to use it in tournament? The only ones who have that luxury are those who aren't already top players

 

[Tino]

S'up, people!

Haven't been posting here much lately mostly due to how busy I've been lately with work, finishing up on some games and ****.

 

[CrimsonRick117]

Who else just saw the Final Fantasy 15 Stream?.... So much HYPE!

 

[DJJD]

I dont know how you guys cant tell the similarities been Melee Marth and Cloud lol.

Also I've said on 2 seperate occasions that comparing their moveset is only a superficial comparison.

I even listed reasons on how they feel similar lol.

I mean you can even side B to air stall like melee Marth and also how how his fair and bair look almost identical.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

uhhhhh

fair looks and acts nothing like Marth fair

bair, maybe, but that's moreso in function and not form

Smooth Criminal

 

[ArcanaXIII]

FF XV anime, movie, and collector's edition. TAKE MY MONEY!

 

[Tri Knight]

FF XV anime, movie, and collector's edition. TAKE MY MONEY!

This game is going to own my life. This new demo is incredible.

 

[ArcanaXIII]

The anime is here!

 

[Tino]

Who else just saw the Final Fantasy 15 Stream?.... So much HYPE!

Must've missed that one.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Crossing my fingers and hoping I managed to nab the FFXV CE in time.

I'm mainly getting it for the wife as she's a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge FF nut (moreso than I am).

Smooth Criminal

 

[ArcanaXIII]

Too much money for me.