Social 7th Heaven - Cloud Social Thread

[Bladeviper]

Speaking of the Cloud VS Link thing, though I preferred Link, when I found out about them saying Z targeting gave Link the advantage despite Cloud having something similar in Dissidia I couldn't help but call BS

i think it was more bs that they gave link his full loadout but limited cloud to 3 materia and then gave him 3 of the weaker ones

 

[Cutie Gwen]

i think it was more bs that they gave link his full loadout but limited cloud to 3 materia and then gave him 3 of the weaker ones

That too, haven't seen that fight in ages, though the Dethroning Moment for Death Battle on TVTropes sadly got removed and the Z targeting was all I remember

 

[Tri Knight]

Well if it makes you all feel better, i already know Cloud already beats Link in Smash and he hasn't even come out yet.

In a realistic battle though one advantage Link has is amount of equipment, durability, and his shield. Cloud's advantage is being able to swing a giant sword around like it was 10 pounds and can use the sword itself as a shield. As for whose better, it's tough to say since, outside of Smash, they're both considered very powerful swordsmen.

 

[Drakonis]

Yeah that's one of the death battles that absolutely needs to get another look at. Even if Link won again, I just want them to not go straw grasping.

Z-Targeting shouldn't even be considered as an ability. It's literally a camera mechanic to make it easier for us, the players, to fight and hit enemies. I think that Link from Twilight Princess would stand a good shot of beating Cloud, simply because the Hylian Shield and Master Sword combo are a great combination of offense and defense, not to mention the different techniques he has to move around an opponent for close-quarters combat. Projectiles won't do much to Cloud cause he can deflect bullets with ease (magic though? hard to block that stuff), but as far as swordfighting goes, they're both pretty good.

The whole Z-Targeting was also kinda stupid because they said "Oh, because of this he can block the entirety of Clouds Omnistrike"...
When Omnistrike is unavoidable in 7 (afaik) and Cloud has the special ability to break through blocking enemies in Dissidia, the game which they took the most assets from to create that video.

It's like they included one gameplay mechanic as a canon power while ignoring two others specificly to get to their desired results. That just feels like cheating.

 

[meleebrawler]

The whole Z-Targeting was also kinda stupid because they said "Oh, because of this he can block the entirety of Clouds Omnistrike"...
When Omnistrike is unavoidable in 7 (afaik) and Cloud has the special ability to break through blocking enemies in Dissidia, the game which they took the most assets from to create that video.

It's like they included one gameplay mechanic as a canon power while ignoring two others specificly to get to their desired results. That just feels like cheating.

Nobody in Dissidia has an unbreakable guard like Hylian Shield + Golden Gauntlets.

It's also mighty convenient how all the games that show Link staggering from strong blows lack any sort of gauntlet upgrades...

The whole disclaimer of only using weapons used in fighting games is to stem thoughts of either fighter being cheated with things like "oh, but if Cloud had X weapon or X materia he would've won!". And then Link would've brought four fairies. Both were allowed the best possible armor they could equip, Link's was just strong enough to protect him well from Cloud's strength.

 

[The_Cardinal]

So, as sonicbrawler182 said, it would be fine if that's how it worked as that's how it worked in FFVII, but there's 2 things: what move is being modified to be Finishing Touch? Up Smash seems likely, but what does that mean for his other Smashes and even other normals?

I actually did bring up the possibility that the LB mechanic might affect smashes at one point, which if it does would be crazy awesome. What a lot of people are saying here, and I personally think it makes sense, is that if LB is a manual charge (let's say down B), then once LB is filled then down B (since you can't charge further) would become Finishing Touch.

But yeah, the fact that it's unclear how his LB is achieved is actually kinda exciting. It allows for speculation and the fact that it's not obvious reemphasizes the unique aspects Cloud brings to Smash.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

I just want to point out that even with the Golden Gauntlets and Mirror Shield, Link gets thrown around like a rag doll by Ganon's melee attacks.
That and everything else you guys have said about Cloud's ability to smash (ha! I made a funny!) through his enemies' guard.
Yeah. Total BS.

 

[ChikoLad]

In regards to the whole Link VS Cloud thing, it depends on the version of Link we talk about.

In my opinion, Majora's Mask Link and Hyrule Warriors Link would be more than capable of defeating Cloud. Even if you were to be such a big fanboy of Cloud that you will not accept him losing, you cannot deny that these two versions of Link would, AT LEAST, make it a close match.

Wind Waker Link also has the potential IMO.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Ahah. I'm a little hype for Cloud. Pardon the tl;dr. I've been playing competitive Smash since 2006, never once thought Cloud would make it, have been a loyal Sonic main from Brawl to now (will still use him since he's one of my favorite fictional characters), but Cloud? You can count on me to keep pushing what can be done with him. Hope to get to know the rest of you guys better and we can bounce ideas off one another!

You and me both, brother. Glad to know that I'll have a few folks to turn to if I want to do some mirror matches.

In regards to the whole Link VS Cloud thing, it depends on the version of Link we talk about.

In my opinion, Majora's Mask Link and Hyrule Warriors Link would be more than capable of defeating Cloud. Even if you were to be such a big fanboy of Cloud that you will not accept him losing, you cannot deny that these two versions of Link would, AT LEAST, make it a close match.

Wind Waker Link also has the potential IMO.

I'm curious as to what your reasoning is with WW Link.
MM Link, with the Fierce Deity's mask, sure. But Hyrule Warriors Link is not canon.

 

[meleebrawler]

I just want to point out that even with the Golden Gauntlets and Mirror Shield, Link gets thrown around like a rag doll by Ganon's melee attacks.
That and everything else you guys have said about Cloud's ability to smash (ha! I made a funny!) through his enemies' guard.
Yeah. Total BS.

Kinda figured that was because Ganon's wide sword swings just hit Link from the side, bypassing his guard entirely. Or Ganon is just way more powerful than Cloud. But I digress.

Even so they made a point of mentioning how close the fight really was, implying they knew that Cloud could potentially kill Link faster than he could do the same. But Link had enough defense and tactical options to counter that strength.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Kinda figured that was because Ganon's wide sword swings just hit Link from the side, bypassing his guard entirely. Or Ganon is just way more powerful than Cloud. But I digress.

Even so they made a point of mentioning how close the fight really was, implying they knew that Cloud could potentially kill Link faster than he could do the same. But Link had enough defense and tactical options to counter that strength.

I think it's really just that DB plays favorites and aren't afraid to show it. No Final Fantasy character has ever won on their channel.

 

[Tri Knight]

Kinda figured that was because Ganon's wide sword swings just hit Link from the side, bypassing his guard entirely. Or Ganon is just way more powerful than Cloud. But I digress.

Even so they made a point of mentioning how close the fight really was, implying they knew that Cloud could potentially kill Link faster than he could do the same. But Link had enough defense and tactical options to counter that strength.

That's what I get out of this battle. Regardless of equipment it's really boiling down to Link's defense vs Cloud's raw power.

 

[Drakonis]

Nobody in Dissidia has an unbreakable guard like Hylian Shield + Golden Gauntlets.

It's also mighty convenient how all the games that show Link staggering from strong blows lack any sort of gauntlet upgrades...

The whole disclaimer of only using weapons used in fighting games is to stem thoughts of either fighter being cheated with things like "oh, but if Cloud had X weapon or X materia he would've won!". And then Link would've brought four fairies. Both were allowed the best possible armor they could equip, Link's was just strong enough to protect him well from Cloud's strength.

Actually, Ocarina of Time Link does have the power bracelets, power gloves AND titan's mitts and the game has a lot of attacks that send him flying even if he tries to block them.
Thinking about it, isn't the same true for Zelda 2, Link's Awakening and A Link to the Past? I mean, all these games have fixed knockback on hit and no real stagger animations, but also plenty of attacks even the best shields just outright won't block and you do still get knocked back from them.

But yeah, I agree that no one would want to see a 4 bottled fairies vs. (Mastered Final Attack)=(Mastered Pheonix) matchup, as that would get old fast.

Kinda figured that was because Ganon's wide sword swings just hit Link from the side, bypassing his guard entirely. Or Ganon is just way more powerful than Cloud. But I digress.

Even so they made a point of mentioning how close the fight really was, implying they knew that Cloud could potentially kill Link faster than he could do the same. But Link had enough defense and tactical options to counter that strength.

Then they should have shown that and not rely on a BS excuse in the actual video. Show, don't tell.
I get that they where probably also limited due to what is possible in the engine they used and everything, so maybe that was the reason? But with everything else they pulled off in that animation I'd think they could've done better than insulting both characters with such a cop-out.

As I've stated before, I could see either win, I'm a huge fan of both franchises after all. The video was just so disappointing because it had good elements mixed in throghout with a really stupid ending.

You know what video good is all the way through, though? :3

Spoiler

Still feels kinda unreal.

 

[Neo Zero]

Isn't ExDeath's Omni Guard unbreakable tbf? You have to time it mind you, but it's basically the perfect guard?

 

[ChikoLad]

Death Battle are a mixed bag. Some of them are really well though out and make sense. Others are mixed, where they had a good foundation but the ending seems screwy. And some of them, they completely sell one of the characters short and get basic facts wrong.

The Donkey Kong VS Knuckles one was bloody stupid. They even applied Boom Knuckles' characterisation to Game Knuckles, which is stupid as they are two entirely different characters. Knuckles also could have easily dodged the blow that finished him, it was so obvious they just wanted DK to win, and didn't want to do research. There's more wrong than just that but those were the two big red flags for me.

Then the Link VS Cloud one seemed fine enough considering the circumstances they presented, but they didn't account for everything and I don't think they even specified an incarnation of Link (I could be wrong though).

Then the Raiden VS Wolverine one actually is an example of one that's well done. I actually thought Wolverine was going to win despite liking Raiden more, but they were pretty thorough in proving why Raiden would actually win. And it's just one of the best looking fights they have.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Actually, Ocarina of Time Link does have the power bracelets, power gloves AND titan's mitts and the game has a lot of attacks that send him flying even if he tries to block them.
Thinking about it, isn't the same true for Zelda 2, Link's Awakening and A Link to the Past? I mean, all these games have fixed knockback on hit and no real stagger animations, but also plenty of attacks even the best shields just outright won't block and you do still get knocked back from them.

But yeah, I agree that no one would want to see a 4 bottled fairies vs. (Mastered Final Attack)=(Mastered Pheonix) matchup, as that would get old fast.


Then they should have shown that and not rely on a BS excuse in the actual video. Show, don't tell.
I get that they where probably also limited due to what is possible in the engine they used and everything, so maybe that was the reason? But with everything else they pulled off in that animation I'd think they could've done better than insulting both characters with such a cop-out.

As I've stated before, I could see either win, I'm a huge fan of both franchises after all. The video was just so disappointing because it had good elements mixed in throghout with a really stupid ending.

You know what video good is all the way through, though? :3

Spoiler

Still feels kinda unreal.

Exactly. They really over exaggerated several points they used as their key arguments.
Welp, time to watch that trailer again! Nobody pinch me!

 

[MagiusNecros]

Mods must either love or hate this board. All those locked topics.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Ugh... I feel so left out for not playing Dissidia.
Or Crisis Core. Or Dirge of Cerberus.

Really hoping for the FFVII remake to include Crisis Core at least. (But Sony is extremely stingy with its PSP exclusives).

 

[Gene]

 

[Champ Gold]

Ugh... I feel so left out for not playing Dissidia.
Or Crisis Core. Or Dirge of Cerberus.

Really hoping for the FFVII remake to include Crisis Core at least. (But Sony is extremely stingy with its PSP exclusives).

If you have a Vita (or PS TV) play Dissidia.

That game is a fun and addictive fighting game and you don't have to be a fan of FF to enjoy it.

That game was the gateway for me into the series.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Man, can you imagine if they did a Cloud amiibo, and it unlocked his outfit and Fenrir motorcycle in Mario Kart?

 

[Bladeviper]

Ugh... I feel so left out for not playing Dissidia.
Or Crisis Core. Or Dirge of Cerberus.

Really hoping for the FFVII remake to include Crisis Core at least. (But Sony is extremely stingy with its PSP exclusives).

the reason crisis core didnt get a re release on psn is not sony's fault, its becuase se loves to use licensed songs and they probably don't want to pay royalties to gackt ether since he is the model for a character and voices him in the jp version i think

 

[BlueX]

Man, can you imagine if they did a Cloud amiibo, and it unlocked his outfit and Fenrir motorcycle in Mario Kart?
View attachment 83052

I would start playing Mario Kart 8 again if that actually did happen.

 

[ChikoLad]

It's actually very likely the Cloud Amiibo will unlock a costume in Super Mario Maker.

Which is just weird to think about.

I also wonder if it will unlock a Yoshi costume in Yoshi's Woolly World.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Mods must either love or hate this board. All those locked topics.

Lot of 'em are kind of redundant, though, and in many cases those thread owners were at least redirected to topical threads. Keeping it pruned is probably for the best in the long-term.

As for the subject of the other FF7 games, I can't really say I ever had an interest in them. Vincent was probably my least favorite character (aside from 7's Cid), and I never really felt I needed to know more about Zack and co. besides what was in the main story. Dissidia always looked neat, but I wasn't motivated enough to buy a Sony handheld for it.

Smooth Criminal

 

[MagiusNecros]

All Dissidia was is Dodge Counter Block the game. Rock paper scissors with FF characters.

ExDeath and Ultimecia top tier.

Before I tossed it or forgot about it I was a big ExDeath main.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I know they ruined Kefka in Dissidia. Here I was expecting this nutty, Joker-like goon that mocked and taunted his opponents cruelly, all the while attacking his opponent with a vicious repertoire of deadly magic. Instead, he was no more than an automaton with a dial set to "hate/kill." It made me sad.

Smooth Criminal

 

[ChikoLad]

All Dissidia was is Dodge Counter Block the game. Rock paper scissors with FF characters.

ExDeath and Ultimecia top tier.

Before I tossed it or forgot about it I was a big ExDeath main.

ExDeath was theoretically the best in the game since you could theoretically spam his teleport so fast that it makes him completely intangible, while homing into the opponent slowly to attack them and build up Bravery, but he wasn't in practice due to the fact that it isn't possible for this to be done by an actual human and is only doable with TAS. He was still really good but not quite the best in either game.

IIRC Ultemecia and Tidus were the two big contenders for the top spot in the original game. In Duodecim, it was Ultemecia and Lightning who were the best according to a lot of people.

Here's a random tier list I found, not sure how up to date it is.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Quite a few characters were bastardized and merely torn from a point in their games were they were kinda overly whiny.

Edit: ExDeath was one of the best because he could build assist insanely fast and the grand majesty that is ALL GUARD or OMNI BLOCK.

 

[Rukia]

Here's a fun fact: Lightning from Final Fantasy XIII was designed to be the female counterpart of Cloud and Squall.

Spoiler

A squall, cloud, and lightning are all weather based conditions. Pretty cool.

 

[ChikoLad]

Here's a fun fact: Lightning from Final Fantasy XIII was designed to be the female counterpart of Cloud and Squall.

Spoiler

A squall, cloud, and lightning are all weather based conditions. Pretty cool.

And it came full circle with Lightning Returns.

 

[Champ Gold]

I'm gonna be surprised if Cloud doesn't get a Lightning color alt.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Isn't ExDeath's Omni Guard unbreakable tbf? You have to time it mind you, but it's basically the perfect guard?

Correct. Only moves with the "Special" priority could get past it. Which was like 3 sissy attacks you could dodge anyway.

 

[Kuraudo]

I'm curious if you'll still bust out Sonic much tbh lol. I may not be quite the fan you are, but an Ike archtype with a projectile alone is enough to sell me (especially with Shulk and his frame data lol)

I will! But very little. Enough so that he would be a secondary. Unless he has good match-ups across the board.

All of Alberta is hype that they won't have to fight my Sonic anymore. LOL

 

[ChikoLad]

I will! But very little. Enough so that he would be a secondary. Unless he has good match-ups across the board.

All of Alberta is hype that they won't have to fight my Sonic anymore. LOL

inb4 scrubs think Cloud is OP and whine for you to switch back to Sonic

 

[Kuraudo]

inb4 scrubs think Cloud is OP and whine for you to switch back to Sonic

Nah. They don't whine about Sonic because he's OP.

They whine about Sonic because he's...well, Sonic.

 

[Mr. Johan]

Was a full-fledged Sonic main in Brawl, but Sakurai fulfilled my Day 1 wish of Robin getting in Smash, so been sticking with him with Sonic hanging around as a secondary.

Cloud may take over that secondary spot, if only for me being wholly foreign to Cloud and just wanting the experience. I just don't like how Sonic is in this game that much, lol

 

[ChikoLad]

Nah. They don't whine about Sonic because he's OP.

They whine about Sonic because he's...well, Sonic.

Aaaaand that's why I've been hesitant to actually enter a tournament. :V

 

[Kuraudo]

Aaaaand that's why I've been hesitant to actually enter a tournament. :V

Don't be! They may not like Sonic, but they love me as a person. I've made some amazing friends regardless of who I play.

 

[shinhed-echi]

If you have a Vita (or PS TV) play Dissidia.

That game is a fun and addictive fighting game and you don't have to be a fan of FF to enjoy it.

That game was the gateway for me into the series.

Well, I am, or was (and am again) a fan of FF. I've played FF from I~X-2 (only skipping III which was inaccessible until the DS, unless it was emulated from the NES). But I'd love to play the FFVII prequel and sequel, as well as Dissidia. I was never a big fan of either the PSP or the Vita, so I can't play the exclusives.

VII was the one that got me into the series, really. I couldn't quite digest VI and below at first due to the lack of animation, but I got over it. :D I still find VI and VII to be tied in #1 for me.