Social 7th Heaven - Cloud Social Thread

[Chalice]

Still wanted regular Climmhazzard to ledge snap though

Cloud is fine the way he is. Time to get good boys without expecting buffs/nerfs

 

[Stylo Ren]

Im so happy Cloud hasnt been changed. Ledge snapping Clim would have been nice, but I want the game to finally be stable.

 

[GHNeko]

Dont breath yet guys, there still might be some attribute changes according to http://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-4-patch-notes.430023/#post-20832485

 

[Stylo Ren]

Dont breath yet guys, there still might be some attribute changes according to http://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-4-patch-notes.430023/#post-20832485

According to one of the data miners, though, Cloud didnt recieve any changes. So who knows.

 

[Iron Maw]

Still wanted regular Climmhazzard to ledge snap though

Cloud is fine the way he is. Time to get good boys without expecting buffs/nerfs

Yeah, I'd rather have this than getting unnecessarily nerfed.

 

[GHNeko]

According to one of the data miners, though, Cloud didnt recieve any changes. So who knows.

Well hopefully this is the case lmao

 

[Deleted member]

I'm glad that Cloud didn't get changed. Sure, he didn't get buffs, but getting unchanged is better than getting nerfed.

 

[Tino]

Not that it really matters to me. He still plays amazingly regardless.

 

[KittyKyat]

i think cloud not being touched was probably the right decision, he feels like in the right place in terms of balance.

might be biased, but he's got his strengths and weaknesses.

 

[*Verrix*]

Cloud was changed in some ways since my Cloud ditto replays broke. I'm just not sure what they did.

 

[Moorthen]

Replays will break regardless of whether or not your character was changed.

Also, hello Cloud Social. How are you today? Are you enjoying playing as Bayonetta and Corrin? Are you enjoying fighting wave after wave of them?

 

[Stylo Ren]

I feel like Cloud is honestly pretty balanced. Yeah his uair and dair last for 20 years, but his air speed isnt fantastic to make up for it, and you have to fall with them to get great mileage out of them

 

[Banjodorf]

Cloud was changed in some ways since my Cloud ditto replays broke. I'm just not sure what they did.

All replays from old versions are incompatible with newer ones. Doesn't mean the character's been changed.

Also, hello Cloud Social. How are you today? Are you enjoying playing as Bayonetta and Corrin? Are you enjoying fighting wave after wave of them?

Absolutely loving Corrin. She (and he) is so ****ing glorious, and side-B brings so many options, it's awesome. AND THEN THERE'S THE KILL POWER.

I've had some great matches against other Corrins and Bayos online. No one seems good at Bayo yet; most of them just rely on Madama Butterfly's big ass Smash attack limbs. That's a Counter Surgin'.

 

[ArcanaXIII]

People stopped complaining about Cloud to go complain about Bayonetta. I love humanity.

 

[Tino]

I'm not surprised actually.

The Smash fanbase at their worst.

 

[Chalice]

Bayo is like Meta Knight and Ryu. Needs to be dedicated as a solo main to be optimized due to a high learning curve

Corrin is like Cloud and Mario. Easy to pick up but has a high skill ceiling.

In order, I feel like the best DLC are:

1) Cloud because he can outcamp even Sheik, ridiculous frame data, neutral game with range and safe on shield moves. Also did I mention Limit?
2) Corrin (very close second though) because good frame data and kill power and range to stay safe. Can't camp very well though. Movement options with Side-B are godlike. Recovery is a only a bit better than Cloud because Cloud has Limit Up B while Corrin gains some horizontal recovery with Bair. Has to be high for Side B to hit the stage and Up B is mediocre vertically and horizontally.
3) Bayonetta (one thing I see is that she can have trouble killing against patient opponents who bait out Witch Time and punish moves like Heel Slide and her Tilt moves. She racks up damage like no tomorrow though)
4) Ryu because of strong SURE YOU CAN
5) Roy because of frame data buffs and he can kill light weights at 60 at the ledge. The buffs make his strings and combos more consistent. Is still combo meat and bad recovery
6) Mewtwo because of buffs but he still dies super early and is combo meat. Neutral B isn't exactly that great of a camping move and is easy to avoid. Requires a read to land
7) Lucas is good but is just outclassed by the others

Again, just my opinion

 

[GHNeko]

People stopped complaining about Cloud to go complain about Bayonetta. I love humanity.

I'm not surprised actually.

The Smash fanbase at their worst.

nigga this isnt JUST the smash community this is just the new generation of competitive players.

you'll see the same **** on SRK/Eventhubs/TestYourMight/Dustloop about whatever new FotM fighting game.

"this **** is op" "too many good this" "too little bad that." etc etc

i dont want to keep sounding like a smash version of Alex Valle but **** man joining "recent" communities is ****ing grating.

 

[Iron Maw]

Whoa, Bayo and Corrin are fun now that I got to try them. They're great additions to cast!

3) Bayonetta (one thing I see is that she can have trouble killing against patient opponents who bait out Witch Time and punish moves like Heel Slide and her Tilt moves. She racks up damage like no tomorrow though)

Yeah, this MU isn't looking that bad for us. Taking Witch Time out of the equation we can actually fight her on neutral thanks to fact her frame data is much worse than us so we can beat out a lot of stuff. Her grab range is among the worst in the cast too and she can be shielded about as well Cloud can. Witch Time changes everything though, but thankfully it's fairly strict in it's activation so going to be a matter of baiting out. Those with high to good mobility (Sonic, ZSS, Fox, Luigi, Cloud etc) will be able to do this the easiest. Off stage is different matter in entirely though as here aerial game is way better and we can be edgeguarded quite easily.

Overall, I'd say this is quite in Bayo's favor, but hardly undoable IMO.

 

[GHNeko]

Limit Cloud not recommended in Bayo MU imo.

Use it strictly for kills and don't play in that mode.

I don't think thus MU is too much in Bayo favor if at all. We win neutral and force her to approach by nature of having limit break. And her fastest ground option is frame 7 (dtilt).

Her punish game is ridic tho lol

 

[Iron Maw]

I'd agree more, but her offstage game is so scary.

Thankfully she's really light, so we just kill from center the stage at like 80-90%. Finishing Touch alone will ruin her at like 50%. lol

 

[CrimsonRick117]

GHNeko completely off topic but can I just take a sec and admire your freaking Avatar?.... Seriously it throws me off every time I see it and gives me a huge **** eating grin lol.

 

[Kuraudo]

Don't adjust your monitor screens. This is real. It's a thing. And we are alive to play a game that has this as a real thing.

Have some hype music to go along with it.

 

[HFlash]

Bayo is like Meta Knight and Ryu. Needs to be dedicated as a solo main to be optimized due to a high learning curve

Corrin is like Cloud and Mario. Easy to pick up but has a high skill ceiling.

In order, I feel like the best DLC are:

1) Cloud because he can outcamp even Sheik, ridiculous frame data, neutral game with range and safe on shield moves. Also did I mention Limit?
2) Corrin (very close second though) because good frame data and kill power and range to stay safe. Can't camp very well though. Movement options with Side-B are godlike. Recovery is a only a bit better than Cloud because Cloud has Limit Up B while Corrin gains some horizontal recovery with Bair. Has to be high for Side B to hit the stage and Up B is mediocre vertically and horizontally.
3) Bayonetta (one thing I see is that she can have trouble killing against patient opponents who bait out Witch Time and punish moves like Heel Slide and her Tilt moves. She racks up damage like no tomorrow though)
4) Ryu because of strong SURE YOU CAN
5) Roy because of frame data buffs and he can kill light weights at 60 at the ledge. The buffs make his strings and combos more consistent. Is still combo meat and bad recovery
6) Mewtwo because of buffs but he still dies super early and is combo meat. Neutral B isn't exactly that great of a camping move and is easy to avoid. Requires a read to land
7) Lucas is good but is just outclassed by the others

Again, just my opinion

I'm sorry but without a doubt, Ryu is the best DLC character at this stage of the meta. Ryu is the character with the most results at the moment, and whose results didn't start until a few months after release. Ryu has shown that he has at least a manageable MU with the top tiers (namely shiek) whereas Cloud players haven't done the same. Cloud might be easy to pick up, but like almost every character to really...... push the limit with him, players still need to get better. Hurts to say M2K's camp charging limit and then immediately using LB Cloud is the one with any kind of result as of yet. I think Cloud is right where he belongs in the 10-15 range in the tier list (which he is in the official tier list btw). Sorry if I sound pessimistic, but I'm just being realistic. Imo at the moment, Cloud isn't a top tier but does have the potential to be. Ryu is kind of already there.

 

[Kuraudo]

idk what you're talking about HFlash, but Cloud has already been putting in some serious results, the same as Ryu. Komorikiri is one of the top placing people in Japan with Cloud & Sonic. Before Genesis, he won a stacked weekly bracket in Cali, eventually beating out Ranai who would go on to take 2nd place at Genesis 3. Tweek beat Nairo at a tournament with Cloud, and most people that are playing Cloud are placing very high with him wherever you go, whereas Ryu isn't seen so often due to his skill gap in getting true Shoryuken down outta combos and getting inputs right.

All this said, I would say that Ryu is still better than Cloud as a DLC character, but not by a far stretch ether. If anything, I would almost put the two right beside one another on the tier list as Top/High Tiers.

Ryu is the exact same thing as Pikachu. People talk about how godlike Ryu is, but where are all the people winning these tournaments with Ryu? On paper, Ryu and Pikachu are gods and yes they are tournament viable (high or top), but I would argue that Cloud is putting in more work, effectively because more people are playing as him. And the more people that are playing as him, the more we get to see his potential.

[EDIT]

Mew2King's method of Cloud gameplay works fine and well, but I prefer Komorikiri's methods better. He uses Limit Break as something to turn himself into a better character, where his literal only flaw is being a fast-faller that gets combo'd easier. Everything else about him makes him into a feared character on the stage. And when the time is right? Pull the trigger on Limit Break or use it for recovery. Mew2King builds it up, and uses his Limit Breaks for damage leading into kills, and relies on his godlike fundamentals over his years of Melee/Brawl to pick up the rest for Cloud.

 

[GHNeko]

GHNeko completely off topic but can I just take a sec and admire your freaking Avatar?.... Seriously it throws me off every time I see it and gives me a huge **** eating grin lol.

まじか？ありがとw。

Archie's Tails top tier as ****.

Thank @Hong for the shades tho. She's amazing.

 

[CrimsonRick117]

まじか？ありがとw。

Archie's Tails top tier as ****.

Thank @Hong for the shades tho. She's amazing.

問題ない
Wasn't Tails always op as **** anyway?....

 

[HFlash]

I never said Ryu was vastly superior to Cloud. All I said is that it is definitely true that Ryu has shown to deal with top tiers better than Cloud has been able to (at the present moment) hence why he deserves a higher tier placement than Cloud. The argument alot of people will tell you is that... yes, the character is brand new, so people don't know the MU. Sort of like when Roy came out of the gate winning tournaments and he started to fizzle out. Not to say that will happen to Cloud, but creative ways to edgeguard cloud (his big weakness) haven't been discovered by members who main other character. Watching say Mr. R vs Komorikuri at G3 made me cringe sometimes. Shiek absolutely destroys Cloud off stage (like Vanish, or dair through BF's end of stage), and who's to say that other characters don;t come up with other similar ways to take advantage. Personally, I think Komorikuri actually outplayed Mr. R, but Mr. R was able to snipe Cloud so often it made the MU pretty difficult. All I'm saying is that the strengths of Cloud are obvious and easy to use (namely the LB), but learning to edge guard Cloud may be a learning curve or w.e and other players outside of Mr.R might also pick up how to as well. Let's wait a few months before deciding Cloud is better than a top 4 character (like Ryu). If he continues to put in results, more than , then it would be safe to say that Ryu and Cloud belong next to each other (making Cloud top 5). Plus, Komorikuri was already a top 3 player in Japan, so him winning tournaments isn't a huge shock.

Fair enough?

 

[GHNeko]

問題ない
Wasn't Tails always op as **** anyway?....

He's not OP as **** in Archies, but he's pretty godlike due to Turbo Tails which is what is pictured in my avatar.

Also Ryu has better results than Cloud because Ryu gets by on less than Cloud.

Cloud cant confirm into kill nowhere near as good as Ryu can.

Ryu's ability to turn anything into a kill is also something important.

As such, a skilled Ryu only needs to get that hit in; and when everyone in high level is good at getting in a hit on their opponent, then Ryu just kinda carries out the rest of the objective like "わかりました。”

Cloud cant do that ****, so the player needs to put in more work in regards to getting the kill.

What makes Cloud amazing is just his frame data, hitboxes, defensive capabilities and his movement, which gives the player the tools to have a strong neutral, not his ability to turn anything into a kill at any time.

So it's not hard to see why Ryu is getting better results here in America and probably in Japan on a general scale.

 

[mario123007]

Not that it really matters to me. He still plays amazingly regardless.

I think I'm getting well using him, even though I still mess up on his recovery a lot.

 

[SonicvMario]

Replays will break regardless of whether or not your character was changed.

Also, hello Cloud Social. How are you today? Are you enjoying playing as Bayonetta and Corrin? Are you enjoying fighting wave after wave of them?

Corrin is so much fun he feels sorta like melee marth to me since you can combo fair into fair.
Bayonetta is fun aswell but her combos feel inconsistant could just be me sucking at smash though

 

[Tino]

Also, hello Cloud Social. How are you today? Are you enjoying playing as Bayonetta and Corrin? Are you enjoying fighting wave after wave of them?

I find Corrin more fun and enjoyable to play as than Bayonetta although she is fun to play as too but hard to get used to. I'm not really into combo characters like her, although that shouldn't stop me from playing her. I mean I like her and her games though.

As far as Corrin is concerned, I decided to add him as one of my mains. I haven't played as him/her online though.

 

[SuperDavio]

Online play usually makes me hate my characters more.

 

[Tino]

I would get pretty hesitant to play Smash online unless if it's with friends. For Glory is filled with a **** load of blasphemy there.

 

[SuperDavio]

That's a fair point. My online play with friends isn't too bad. Still get the occasional stutter that murders me.

Really should get back to practicing online.

 

[Tino]

Haven't done much practice myself either due to me playing other games and work.

Overall, I'm not ashamed to admit I'm a scrub. xD

 

[Zenithia]

I play on For Glory quite a bit and thankfully the Team Smash is actually fun (especially when using Cloud).

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Anyone else just the tiniest bit bummed that side B didn't get fixed so it links better?
No? Just me?
Welp, glad he wasn't nerfed. Time to go troll the Bayonetta boards.

 

[Iron Maw]

That and dthrow>side b being a little more easier to follow up on and Dsmash tweaked a bit to made untechable.

That said... considering my anxiety pre-patch I can't complain with the result.

We get by with what we have and make those tools work for the most part.

 

[Con0rrrr]

Hey guys I was wondering who I should pick up as a secondary with my Cloud?

The characters that I get most results with besides Cloud would be Mega-Man and Corrin. I can see Megaman providing soem counters due to his projectile game, but what do you guys think about Corrin? Would he/she cover any bases that Cloud doesn't already cover. I enjoy playing as them but I don't see the benefit unless they have any that are unfavorable for Cloud.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Hey guys I was wondering who I should pick up as a secondary with my Cloud?

The characters that I get most results with besides Cloud would be Mega-Man and Corrin. I can see Megaman providing soem counters due to his projectile game, but what do you guys think about Corrin? Would he/she cover any bases that Cloud doesn't already cover. I enjoy playing as them but I don't see the benefit unless they have any that are unfavorable for Cloud.

I don't know enough about Corrin, but as Cloud has the hardest time against some of the rushdown characters like Fox and Sheik, I like keeping Captain Falcon in my secondary/co-main slot.