Social 7th Heaven - Cloud Social Thread

[-m0]

I did a thing last night that you guys might like.

I play against CPUs because I enjoy it more than FG, I've played so much it's not even training anymore, and **** netplay.

 

[ArcanaXIII]

Hey Cloud people. So I'm a Shulk player looking at picking up a secondary to handle the matchups I have a bad time with - generally the quick guys like Falcon, ZSS, Greninja. Cloud's someone I have fun with, and although both Shulk and Cloud play very differently, I figure that coming from Shulk, I'll already have a good grasp on how to space myself.

Cloud's a bit quicker than Shulk, how do you think he does against fast characters? Generally speaking. Compared to Shulk at least, he's still got the big range and better frame data, good enough data to make some cool stuff happen.

If I decide to run with him, are there any worthwhile resources around for me to look at? I'm not really sure what follows into what, what good approaches are... stuff like that. I'll admit I'm actually about to look now, but hey, if anyone's able to point me towards stuff that helped them, I'm not gonna complain.

Cloud does pretty well against fast characters, being fast himself with good frame data and disjoints. Additionally, his projectile makes it so that they can't always dash in for free. Compared to Shulk, Cloud has a much easier time dealing with fast characters overall.

One thing to do with Cloud is using his projectile to pretty much harass your opponent and force them to approach. It's one of the best projectiles because it goes far and it can't be crouched under by characters like Kirby or WFT. A lot of things you do with Shulk, you can probably do with Cloud. Like Shulk, (pivot) Ftilt is an excellent move to throw out for spacing out your opponent. Short hop Nair is also an excellent option in neutral, and if you connect and time your fast fall perfectly, you can combo into jab combo, or Dtilt into Uair to name a few basic combos(Uair will only true if the end hitbox of Dtilt hits). A notable thing about Nair into Dtilt is that if you do fail to connect Uair after Dtilt and they did air dodge, you can fast fall immediately to loop back into Dtilt and put them in the same situation. Full hop Dair is a good approach option for Cloud because it autocancels and you can cross up shields with it. Furthermore, Dair has an extended hitbox, similarly to Mario or Luigi's Nair, but don't expect it to combo break. You can also approach with full hop Fair, which can be hard to punish if properly spaced out. Short hop Uair in neutral can lead into devastating combos, even Finishing Touch kills, but it should be used sparingly because while it does autocancel, you will be pretty open to shield grabs. Similarly to Link, you can do jab 1 and maybe jab 2 into Dsmash, but I'm not entirely sure how well it works for Cloud because I've never done it myself yet. Charge your Limit as much as possible, whenever your opponent's too far from you. After charging your Limit, you'll pretty much have to change your playstyle up a bit, as forcing approaches is no long an option and you'll have to rely a lot more on your normals. It's important to know when to be in and out of Limit, as in does the matchup require heavy use of your projectile, or does it not really matter too much?

While he's not exactly a grab combo character, some things you can do are Dthrow into Cross Slash 1 and 2 into regrab Dthrow Cross Slash 1, 2 , and 3. The 2nd hit of Cross Slash has a vacuum effect and pulls them in towards Clouds grab range. Alternatively, if you don't wanna go for the regrab, you can just go for the full Cross Slash combo after the first Dthrow. Dthrow into turn around jab combo seems to work on most characters, but you have to be quick with the turn around. You can also do Dthrow Ftilt to change things up a bit. At higher percents, you can try going for Dthrow Bair follow up, but much like most of the other "combos" listed mentioned above, it doesn't true combo.

The things I mentioned are just some of the easier stuff, but here's a video that I think is pretty helpful. I also recommend checking out The Art of Cloud thread, which can also be found in somewhere in this very Cloud discussion subforum. There's also plenty more helpful threads, so keep looking around and have fun with Cloud.

 

[-m0]

AlvisCPU You can use FH Dair and it will autocancel, but the hitbox will still be out for most of the move, so it'll hit average-size chars and link into a bair/nair/Finishing Touch at certian percents. Whenever I use Shulk, I keep trying to FH dair and then I get hours of lag and no lingering hitbox

Also, this may seem minor, but knowing you can drift during Blade Beam (like in the above gif; I drift forward) was really useful to me, I use SH Blade Beam and drift backwards to avoid punishment. I've also found B-reverse (not wavebounce) Blade Beam,drifting forward into Limit Charge to retain momentum to get back onstage.

EDIT:

While he's not exactly a grab combo character, some things you can do are Dthrow into Cross Slash 1 and 2 into regrab Dthrow Cross Slash 1, 2 , and 3. The 2nd hit of Cross Slash has a vacuum effect and pulls them in towards Clouds grab range. Alternatively, if you don't wanna go for the regrab, you can just go for the full Cross Slash combo after the first Dthrow. Dthrow into turn around jab combo seems to work on most characters, but you have to be quick with the turn around. You can also do Dthrow Ftilt to change things up a bit. At higher percents, you can try going for Dthrow Bair follow up, but much like most of the other "combos" listed mentioned above, it doesn't true combo.

Pretty sure dthrow->Cross Slash is almost never a true combo; I find it useable when I have some rage and my foe is at low percents, but most of the time they can just DI down and shield or jump out. IMO it's better to just go for ftilt (sometimes even fsmash), because ftilt can go into dtilt or a grab if they shield after the ftilt.

 

[GHNeko]

Dthrow Cross Slash is true on some characters I feel.

 

[KittyKyat]

Dthrow Cross Slash is true on some characters I feel.

Try testing it in training, I don't think it's a true combo on any characters, but you're willing to test it.

 

[GHNeko]

I'd like to clarify that by true, its free/guaranteed on some characters even if its not a true combo.

 

[-m0]

Did another thing on one of the tournament setups today. Can someone look into this? I've gotten it multiple times, I think there's some combo potential in grounded sweetspot fair. Also I didn't do well at all at the tournament, but I got some exp at least. I overshot my recovery twice in the first ****ing game X.X Nerves, I guess. I did pop off though when I blew Ganon's recovery away with Finishing Touch's windbox. That was probably the best moment of the night

 

[Virum]

Did another thing on one of the tournament setups today. Can someone look into this? I've gotten it multiple times, I think there's some combo potential in grounded sweetspot fair. Also I didn't do well at all at the tournament, but I got some exp at least. I overshot my recovery twice in the first ****ing game X.X Nerves, I guess. I did pop off though when I blew Ganon's recovery away with Finishing Touch's windbox. That was probably by best moment of the night
*snip*

FAir is only going to combo in that way if you frame cancel it. Otherwise there's very little true follow-ups you get off of sweetspot FAir.

 

[-m0]

FAir is only going to combo in that way if you frame cancel it. Otherwise there's very little true follow-ups you get off of sweetspot FAir.

What about DI? If people DI the wrong way, can you combo?

 

[Virum]

What about DI? If people DI the wrong way, can you combo?

Nope. Too much endlag regardless.

 

[-m0]

Nope. Too much endlag regardless.

How do you know this? (I'm not doubting your claim, I'm legitimately curious)

 

[AlvisCPU]

Cloud does pretty well against fast characters, being fast himself with good frame data and disjoints. Additionally, his projectile makes it so that they can't always dash in for free. Compared to Shulk, Cloud has a much easier time dealing with fast characters overall.

One thing to do with Cloud is using his projectile to pretty much harass your opponent and force them to approach. It's one of the best projectiles because it goes far and it can't be crouched under by characters like Kirby or WFT. A lot of things you do with Shulk, you can probably do with Cloud. Like Shulk, (pivot) Ftilt is an excellent move to throw out for spacing out your opponent. Short hop Nair is also an excellent option in neutral, and if you connect and time your fast fall perfectly, you can combo into jab combo, or Dtilt into Uair to name a few basic combos(Uair will only true if the end hitbox of Dtilt hits). A notable thing about Nair into Dtilt is that if you do fail to connect Uair after Dtilt and they did air dodge, you can fast fall immediately to loop back into Dtilt and put them in the same situation. Full hop Dair is a good approach option for Cloud because it autocancels and you can cross up shields with it. Furthermore, Dair has an extended hitbox, similarly to Mario or Luigi's Nair, but don't expect it to combo break. You can also approach with full hop Fair, which can be hard to punish if properly spaced out. Short hop Uair in neutral can lead into devastating combos, even Finishing Touch kills, but it should be used sparingly because while it does autocancel, you will be pretty open to shield grabs. Similarly to Link, you can do jab 1 and maybe jab 2 into Dsmash, but I'm not entirely sure how well it works for Cloud because I've never done it myself yet. Charge your Limit as much as possible, whenever your opponent's too far from you. After charging your Limit, you'll pretty much have to change your playstyle up a bit, as forcing approaches is no long an option and you'll have to rely a lot more on your normals. It's important to know when to be in and out of Limit, as in does the matchup require heavy use of your projectile, or does it not really matter too much?

While he's not exactly a grab combo character, some things you can do are Dthrow into Cross Slash 1 and 2 into regrab Dthrow Cross Slash 1, 2 , and 3. The 2nd hit of Cross Slash has a vacuum effect and pulls them in towards Clouds grab range. Alternatively, if you don't wanna go for the regrab, you can just go for the full Cross Slash combo after the first Dthrow. Dthrow into turn around jab combo seems to work on most characters, but you have to be quick with the turn around. You can also do Dthrow Ftilt to change things up a bit. At higher percents, you can try going for Dthrow Bair follow up, but much like most of the other "combos" listed mentioned above, it doesn't true combo.

The things I mentioned are just some of the easier stuff, but here's a video that I think is pretty helpful. I also recommend checking out The Art of Cloud thread, which can also be found in somewhere in this very Cloud discussion subforum. There's also plenty more helpful threads, so keep looking around and have fun with Cloud.

AlvisCPU You can use FH Dair and it will autocancel, but the hitbox will still be out for most of the move, so it'll hit average-size chars and link into a bair/nair/Finishing Touch at certian percents. Whenever I use Shulk, I keep trying to FH dair and then I get hours of lag and no lingering hitbox

Also, this may seem minor, but knowing you can drift during Blade Beam (like in the above gif; I drift forward) was really useful to me, I use SH Blade Beam and drift backwards to avoid punishment. I've also found B-reverse (not wavebounce) Blade Beam,drifting forward into Limit Charge to retain momentum to get back onstage.

Thank you immensely, this'll give me some good things to try out I'm gradually beginning to acknowledge that his throws are rubbish outside of low% dthrows. From what I gather, nothing true combos but there's limited escape windows so you can still follow stuff up. I'm also slowly getting a sense for when it's a good idea to hold on to Limit Break for up-B recoveries as opposed to going for the kill. Gonna have to work on getting dair and uair in there, I've seen some great work done with them.

And yeah, the day I realised I couldn't drag Shulk dair into my opponents was a sad day indeed. But it did mark a time I started getting good with him so not all bad...

 

[KittyKyat]

Thank you immensely, this'll give me some good things to try out I'm gradually beginning to acknowledge that his throws are rubbish outside of low% dthrows. From what I gather, nothing true combos but there's limited escape windows so you can still follow stuff up. I'm also slowly getting a sense for when it's a good idea to hold on to Limit Break for up-B recoveries as opposed to going for the kill. Gonna have to work on getting dair and uair in there, I've seen some great work done with them.

And yeah, the day I realised I couldn't drag Shulk dair into my opponents was a sad day indeed. But it did mark a time I started getting good with him so not all bad...

Ive heard you can nair after dthrow at mid percents

 

[Tshadow7]

Hello Guys im a Link main, and thinking of Co-maining Link and Cloud so im a new cloud player guys :D, i need to improve a lot but one good think ive seen with my Cloud is that to be good with him you need to play the game well (know the games mechanisms, if that makes sense at all). Another thing that i wanted to ask the moderators and anyone here, in the link forum we have what we call a wifi club where we run tournaments only link tournaments and i was thinking that we can do something like that a Cloud only wifi tournament and using only 1 extra character as secondary. Any thoughts or ideas if this might work???

Nice to meet you all, hope to improve with Cloud.

 

[-m0]

Thank you immensely, this'll give me some good things to try out I'm gradually beginning to acknowledge that his throws are rubbish outside of low% dthrows. From what I gather, nothing true combos but there's limited escape windows so you can still follow stuff up. I'm also slowly getting a sense for when it's a good idea to hold on to Limit Break for up-B recoveries as opposed to going for the kill. Gonna have to work on getting dair and uair in there, I've seen some great work done with them.

And yeah, the day I realised I couldn't drag Shulk dair into my opponents was a sad day indeed. But it did mark a time I started getting good with him so not all bad...

Actually I've found fthrow and bthrow to be REALLY good string tools, especially bthrow. If they don't jump out, you can almost always get a DA or Blade Beam if they're offtstage, it may even be able techchase. And if they jump out, you have more time to charge Limit or catch their landing with a Blade Beam/DA/pivot fsmash. Saving Limit for Climhazzard is also a really good idea. The way I see it, it turns Cloud into a character with no weaknesses really aside from shield (checked by Limit Cross Slash) In the few Cloud dittos I played at tournament, whenever the Cloud had Limit, I got really scared. I kept thinking "when is he gonna use it? How can I bait this? Where are his weaknesses now that he can't be edgegaurded? But if you get a dair or some other kill confirm with Limit, go for that sexy tornado

 

[Zenithia]

The sexy tornado is great and all but nothing will beat getting limit break while juggling

 

[Strong-Arm]

Got a huge tournament this saturday with around 100 entrants for Wii U alone (going to get some brawl in too RIP cool Pit) anyways as if it its a shocker I'll be repping my boys Cloud, Mewtwo and Pittoo. Wish me luck(if you want)

 

[Deleted member]

I started to play FF4 on the DS and I am liking it so far. I do enjoy the gameplay and the story is actually pretty good so far. Cecil is also a pretty cool character.

Spoiler

I just want to say whoever the king of Baron is deserves to die. What he has done and tricked Cecil to do is very inexcusable and unforgivable. I just hate this guy so much...

I made it past Castle Damcyan, so I dunno if I am at the point where the game really starts to become difficult. From what I've heard, there is a difficulty spike that is coming soon.

Got a huge tournament this saturday with around 100 entrants for Wii U alone (going to get some brawl in too RIP cool Pit) anyways as if it its a shocker I'll be repping my boys Cloud, Mewtwo and Pittoo. Wish me luck(if you want)

Good luck and go get em!

 

[-m0]

Got a huge tournament this saturday with around 100 entrants for Wii U alone (going to get some brawl in too RIP cool Pit) anyways as if it its a shocker I'll be repping my boys Cloud, Mewtwo and Pittoo. Wish me luck(if you want)

Good luck! Brawl tho? No offense to your game or anything, but I thought nobody played that anymore. Will it be streamed?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Got a huge tournament this saturday with around 100 entrants for Wii U alone (going to get some brawl in too RIP cool Pit) anyways as if it its a shocker I'll be repping my boys Cloud, Mewtwo and Pittoo. Wish me luck(if you want)

People still play Brawl?

I thought this game was more dead than Aerith...

 

[-m0]

People still play Brawl?

I thought this game was more dead than Aerith...

I know right? I watched some a little while ago and I was like, "how is this fun?" It does teach you a little though. I feel like when people came into Smash 4, they forget about all the camping and defensive play they learned in Brawl. That is still viable, especially with Shiek. People don't abuse simply running away and needle camping enough imo. Not that I want a world where everybody runs away and Shieks hardcore needle camp... X.X

200th post! time for a new avi!

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I know right? I watched some a little while ago and I was like, "how is this fun?" It does teach you a little though. I feel like when people came into Smash 4, they forget about all the camping and defensive play they learned in Brawl. That is still viable, especially with Shiek. People don't abuse simply running away and needle camping enough imo. Not that I want a world where everybody runs away and Shieks hardcore needle camp... X.X

Personally, I see Smash 4 as an improvement over everything Brawl did wrong (tripping, everyone being floaty, hitstun cancelling, etc.)

Plus, it has Cloud, so it's obviously the best game ever.

 

[-m0]

Personally, I see Smash 4 as an improvement over everything Brawl did wrong (tripping, everyone being floaty, hitstun cancelling, etc.)

Plus, it has Cloud, so it's obviously the best game ever.

Where did I say Brawl was better than Smash 4? It's not. In any way lol. I said that since they have the same engine, playing defensively ala Brawl is still an option, a viable option at that, and people seem to have forgotten how campy characters like Shiek can actually be



But yeah, this game has Roy, Cloud, Dark Pit, Mewtwo, and tons of other cool chars, definitely the best Smash game ever.

Dragon Quest 9 is still the best game tho...

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Where did I say Brawl was better than Smash 4? It's not. In any way lol. I said that since they have the same engine, playing defensively ala Brawl is still an option, a viable option at that, and people seem to have forgotten how campy characters like Shiek can actually be

Oops. Read your post wrong

But my point still stands; we may be able to pull off a Brawl-like style, but unlike Brawl, we can do combos in Smash 4!

But yeah, this game has Roy, Cloud, Dark Pit, Mewtwo, and tons of other cool chars, definitely the best Smash game ever.

Makes me wonder how Sakurai can top this game...

 

[-m0]

Oops. Read your post wrong

But my point still stands; we may be able to pull off a Brawl-like style, but unlike Brawl, we can do combos in Smash 4!

Super Down Throw Bros. 4

Makes me wonder how Sakurai can top this game...

The only thing that could improve this game would be if Knuckles was a character.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Super Down Throw Bros. 4

Ironic, considering we main a character with no true throw follow-ups

 

[~Skelly~]

The only thing that could improve this game would be if King K. Rool, Isaac, Snake, and Knuckles were characters.

Fixed.

Ironic, considering we main a character with no true throw follow-ups

I think we're more the Autocancel Crew personally.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I think we're more the Autocancel Crew personally.

We are the SOLDIERs

 

[Kuraudo]

We're mercenaries gone delivery boys/girls; with the heart of SOLDIER.

 

[-m0]

Fixed.

You forgot Wolf.

No offense but, I've never felt K.Rool would be in Smash. He has plenty of moveset potential and all that, but I've never seen him as ever having any chance at all of getting in. It's always just been like, "Oh yeah, K.Rool? He won't get in. No way."

But Isaac should be in. Check this video out... I laughed hard... Issac and Wolf confirmed!

We are the SOLDIERs

Embrace your dreams, and whatever happens, protect your honor as SOLDIER. Well, you never made SOLDIER. But it's what's in here that counts.

 

[Tino]

But yeah, this game has Roy, Cloud, Rosalina, Mega Man and tons of other cool chars, definitely the best Smash game ever.

Dragon Quest 9 is still the best game tho...

Fixed it for ya. You can thank me later.

 

[-m0]

Fixed it for ya. You can thank me later.

It's crazy. We get people like Cloud and Ryu, and we forget how amazing it is that chars like Sonic and Megaman are this game too lol.

 

[AlvisCPU]

It's crazy. We get people like Cloud and Ryu, and we forget how amazing it is that chars like Sonic and Megaman are this game too lol.

If, four-five years ago you'd said "Mega Man, Sonic, Ryu, Cloud, Bayonetta, Pac-Man, the Villager from Animal Crossing and the trainer from Wii Fit are gonna be in Smash 4, and you're gonna be able to do 8-Player Smash" you'd have been laughed off the Internet.

 

[Shuriblur]

You forgot Wolf.

The Inklings were also forgotten. Like 'em or hate 'em, their game was one of the biggest ones on the Wii U.

Also, bringing back the Ice Climbers.

Just the amount of characters that can still be named to put into the game makes me think they'd have enough newcomers for the next installment.

I hope in the next one that they can continue to keep Cloud. I would hate for him to get the Snake treatment, though I don't foresee Cloud getting in a similar situation.

 

[Lady Kuki]

Ohhhh that would suck if they took out Cloud. Cloud, Ryu, and Mega Man are one of the reasons why this game's roster is so good. I have a feeling that since Nomura and Sakurai seem to be getting along well, Cloud may be here to say. Only time will tell if Cloud will stay for Smash 5 or not.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If, four-five years ago you'd said "Mega Man, Sonic, Ryu, Cloud, Bayonetta, Pac-Man, the Villager from Animal Crossing and the trainer from Wii Fit are gonna be in Smash 4, and you're gonna be able to do 8-Player Smash" you'd have been laughed off the Internet.

You forgot the Duck Hunt Dog.

 

[Moorthen]

This week's Conquest is Link vs Cloud. I wonder who's going to win.

 

[-m0]

The Inklings were also forgotten. Like 'em or hate 'em, their game was one of the biggest ones on the Wii U.

Also, bringing back the Ice Climbers.

Just the amount of characters that can still be named to put into the game makes me think they'd have enough newcomers for the next installment.

I hope in the next one that they can continue to keep Cloud. I would hate for him to get the Snake treatment, though I don't foresee Cloud getting in a similar situation.

I've never liked the Ice Climbers, nor Luma and Rosalina. The concept of two characters fighting together hitting twice with all their attacks didn't work for me. Not to mention Nintendo had two games to make infinite-free Ice Climbers, and they failed both times. That may also have been an incentive to take them out. (Not trying to diss your character or anything, just didn't favor the ICs myself :/)

IN OTHER NEWS:
Knuckles is in PM. Got the dev build last night. I'M SO HAPPY and I don't even like PM, but all the new characters are really fun. I think everybody should try it out!

And try Brawl Minus too...

 

[Deleted member]

Ohhhh that would suck if they took out Cloud. Cloud, Ryu, and Mega Man are one of the reasons why this game's roster is so good. I have a feeling that since Nomura and Sakurai seem to be getting along well, Cloud may be here to say. Only time will tell if Cloud will stay for Smash 5 or not.

I would be disappointed if they took out Cloud, but I wouldn't be surprised. Square is a bit strict on others using their licenses, so I can see Cloud not making it onto the initial roster for Smash 5. I would love to be wrong though, because I love playing as Cloud.

This week's Conquest is Link vs Cloud. I wonder who's going to win.

I hope Cloud does, but I am expecting Link.

I've never liked the Ice Climbers, nor Luma and Rosalina. The concept of two characters fighting together hitting twice with all their attacks didn't work for me. Not to mention Nintendo had two games to make infinite-free Ice Climbers, and they failed both times. That may also have been an incentive to take them out. (Not trying to diss your character or anything, just didn't favor the ICs myself :/)

IN OTHER NEWS:
Knuckles is in PM. Got the dev build last night. I'M SO HAPPY and I don't even like PM, but all the new characters are really fun. I think everybody should try it out!

And try Brawl Minus too...

I feel the same way you do about the Ice Climbers. I never liked them nor their gameplay; the infinites they had only added salt into my open wound. Just also add the fact that I absolutely hate their game... I think it's awful even for the time period.

Wait, Knuckles is finished? Can I have a link to that? I wanna play as Knuckles.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I would be disappointed if they took out Cloud, but I wouldn't be surprised. Square is a bit strict on others using their licenses, so I can see Cloud not making it onto the initial roster for Smash 5. I would love to be wrong though, because I love playing as Cloud.

He could always show up as a recurring DLC character in every Smash