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51 characters total, reasoning inside.

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Deoxys911

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Ridley didn't grab Pikachu, we're pretty sure of that now; "Pikachu" is actually just Ridley's leg getting in the way (if you look at the GIF you can tell Ridley isn't grabbing anything). Plus, he "jumps" at the end of that footage. Its hard to tell watching the video as it goes by too quickly, but you can easily tell in the GIF, and Ridley also appears to go into his hover after doing what appears to be a side special.

Hover mechanics are nothing new, so an aerial-based Ridley who can hover isn't particularly new either. (Having hovering and multi-jumps would be new, though, but he definitely jumps in the GIF.)
I haven't seen that .GIF, now I'm curious. Can you post/link to it for inquiring minds? I'm aware of Peach's hover ability, but I was under the impression that before and after what I thought was a grab he was hovering, meaning it probably wasn't a move or Peach-type ability, but rather something he did by default in the way other characters stand. If I did indeed mis-see that, then that is certainly intriguing!
On the note of Ridley not being mentioned, its possible and indeed, very likely Sals source is in marketing. Meaning every newcomer he has said would be a promoted part of the game (so a starter, or third party). Its possible he doesn't know of any hidden characters since they wouldnt be advertised. Brawl after all only had 4 hidden newcomers (not including 3rd party and including Tink) so its possible the amount of newcomers hidden is very low.
If he was in marketing, though, how would he know about Lucas possibly being cut and the developers not being sure which of the EarthBound boys should stay? Also, if the Chorus Kids are starting characters I will eat Kuribo's Shoe.
 

praline

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I haven't seen that .GIF, now I'm curious. Can you post/link to it for inquiring minds? I'm aware of Peach's hover ability, but I was under the impression that before and after what I thought was a grab he was hovering, meaning it probably wasn't a move or Peach-type ability, but rather something he did by default in the way other characters stand. If I did indeed mis-see that, then that is certainly intriguing!

If he was in marketing, though, how would he know about Lucas possibly being cut and the developers not being sure which of the EarthBound boys should stay? Also, if the Chorus Kids are starting characters I will eat Kuribo's Shoe.
I kinda want them to be a starter now.
 

Neo Zero

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That could just be his own speculation. Maybe he just heard A Mother character was in, and decided to tell Sal. It hardly matters anyway because either way he's right. Its like if I say maybe it'll rain today, either way I'm not wrong.

Having a whacky character as a starter isn't the weirdest thing.
 

JaidynReiman

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I haven't seen that .GIF, now I'm curious. Can you post/link to it for inquiring minds? I'm aware of Peach's hover ability, but I was under the impression that before and after what I thought was a grab he was hovering, meaning it probably wasn't a move or Peach-type ability, but rather something he did by default in the way other characters stand. If I did indeed mis-see that, then that is certainly intriguing!

If he was in marketing, though, how would he know about Lucas possibly being cut and the developers not being sure which of the EarthBound boys should stay? Also, if the Chorus Kids are starting characters I will eat Kuribo's Shoe.


As for Lucas, either a rumor or he made it up. There's no guarantee everything he said is stuff he actually knows and as Neo Zero stated, either way he's right.
 

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Wait, I have a question. Since everyone has their own screen on their 3DS, is it necessary to have 4 cursors? I mean, you can tell who the other players are going to be by looking at the bottom screen, so all 4 cursors wont be needed, thus taking up less space
 

NintenRob

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Wait, I have a question. Since everyone has their own screen on their 3DS, is it necessary to have 4 cursors? I mean, you can tell who the other players are going to be by looking at the bottom screen, so all 4 cursors wont be needed, thus taking up less space
Computers.
 

Deoxys911

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I can't honestly tell what is going on in this image. One thing that does stand out to me, though, is how his shadow is further back on the stage than any other characters' shadows have been in any of the screenshots I can find on Google Images, regardless of the camera angle. For now at least I'm going to remain unsure but leaning toward he is a boss, as unfortunate as that is.
As for Lucas, either a rumor or he made it up. There's no guarantee everything he said is stuff he actually knows and as Neo Zero stated, either way he's right.
It's certainly possible. I'm personally assuming he is telling us stuff he knows he's certain, but who's really to say. We'll almost definitely never know for sure, sadly. It would be nice to know how he got all this info.
 

JaidynReiman

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I can't honestly tell what is going on in this image. One thing that does stand out to me, though, is how his shadow is further back on the stage than any other characters' shadows have been in any of the screenshots I can find on Google Images, regardless of the camera angle. For now at least I'm going to remain unsure but leaning toward he is a boss, as unfortunate as that is.

It's certainly possible. I'm personally assuming he is telling us stuff he knows he's certain, but who's really to say. We'll almost definitely never know for sure, sadly. It would be nice to know how he got all this info.
The shadow goes back as far as other characters do when they jump. When Bowser jumped higher it went back that far as well.
 

EbonyRubberWolf

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So.... I got bored. And made a mockup.

3DSCSS.png


47 characters, one screen. Where's my check Nintendo?

EDIT: This is to scale with regard to the 3DS's top screen.
 
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Tree Gelbman

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Well, as soon as I get SSB4 art assets for the other characters, I'll complete it! :p
As in we're getting at least 51. This is so not it. Sakurai would not look at this roster and think it was complete. He just wouldn't. The man has disappointed before, but not this bad.
 

EbonyRubberWolf

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As in we're getting at least 51. This is so not it. Sakurai would not look at this roster and think it was complete. He just wouldn't. The man has disappointed before, but not this bad.
:explainingthejoke:

I think this is it. It fits on the screen nicely, it doesn't scroll, and it conforms to all available leaks currently active(Gematsu).
 

Ryuutakeshi

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See, for me the problem with using the CSS to help determine roster size is hampered by that pattern behind every character. It doesn't look like they want to interupt whatever desin they're making. I worry all the new characters are gonna end up on the fringe of the roster.
 

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My biggest problem with 47 is Ridley, he has a ton going for him when you look at the following points

-His shadow proves he is about the size of bowser, Ridley would not be that small when Sakurai said himself that the only reason it might not work is his size
-He is shown to have playable character like animations that Bosses have NEVER been known to have in Smash Bros, And while others might not see it, That looks very much what second jump would look with Ridley, Look at that and then compare it to Meta Knights
-We have already seen items that grant the ability to float and Ridley could have a move that lets him float in a single place for a small bit of time
-Why would Sakurai tease an extremely popular character with no positive outcome, he never teases like this, when something bad happens, he doesn't like to draw attention to it as shown when he revealed Charizard, he didn't mention him at all during the direct when talking about removing transformations, but instead just revealed him with Greninja to avoid having to talk about removing Pkmn Trainer, Squirtle and Ivysaur.
-He has been shown to "deconfirm" a playable character before launch as shown with R.O.B.

Ridley has far too much going for him at this point, Sakurai is a smart bloke, doing a stunt like this would be a horrible idea no matter which way you look at it.
 

EbonyRubberWolf

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My biggest problem with 47 is Ridley, he has a ton going for him when you look at the following points

-His shadow proves he is about the size of bowser, Ridley would not be that small when Sakurai said himself that the only reason it might not work is his size
Sakurai may just not believe Ridley is playable material, and used the size argument as an out.

-He is shown to have playable character like animations that Bosses have NEVER been known to have in Smash Bros, And while others might not see it, That looks very much what second jump would look with Ridley, Look at that and then compare it to Meta Knights
It could be any number of things. It looks jerky to the point of being an instant aerial change in altitude. Could be placeholder, could be anything. Remember, Sakurai said that things were works in progress.

-We have already seen items that grant the ability to float and Ridley could have a move that lets him float in a single place for a small bit of time
He floated for nearly nine seconds. Peach, the only other known floater, gets three, maybe four at best. That's really out of whack. At least Meta Knight needed to do things to keep in the air.

-Why would Sakurai tease an extremely popular character with no positive outcome, he never teases like this, when something bad happens, he doesn't like to draw attention to it as shown when he revealed Charizard, he didn't mention him at all during the direct when talking about removing transformations, but instead just revealed him with Greninja to avoid having to talk about removing Pkmn Trainer, Squirtle and Ivysaur.
I think Sakurai thought he explained himself clearly enough, and is just teasing the boss fight. He likely doesn't assume there'd be that much analysis on a simple shadow.

-He has been shown to "deconfirm" a playable character before launch as shown with R.O.B.
I suppose, but having Ridley playable and Ridley as a boss would be incredibly confusing and quite honestly unfair.

Ridley has far too much going for him at this point, Sakurai is a smart bloke, doing a stunt like this would be a horrible idea no matter which way you look at it.
Something tells me that Sakurai doesn't think this is a mistake. And 47 fits really, really well...
 

Neo Zero

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My problem with using the 3ds size to determine this is DLC. Everyone claiming 47 by law is using the Gematsu leak to do so....the same leak that said we would have post launch DLC. If the max roster was 47 on the top screen then this would be impossible....

...Unless of course the CSS scrolls or is multi paged. In other words, don't judge the roster by how much one screen can hold.
 

EbonyRubberWolf

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Or there's a button on the bottom screen which would pull up a different menu specifically for DLC characters.
 

Neo Zero

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Or there's a button on the bottom screen which would pull up a different menu specifically for DLC characters.
The same bottom screen used for the selected fighters? I highly doubt the bottom screen has anything to do with the CSS, it would be very inconsistent, confusing, and just plain ugly
 

EbonyRubberWolf

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The same bottom screen used for the selected fighters? I highly doubt the bottom screen has anything to do with the CSS, it would be very inconsistent, confusing, and just plain ugly
It makes sense. DLC characters will NOT be on the main CSS. It will be a button that toggles the display. So it'll be a clean division between DLC and standard-set characters.

Nevermind that DLC characters may be unavailable for online play...
 

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Sakurai is very aware at how popular Ridley is and even goes on to say "I suppose it could work, he would have to be slow", That to me sounds like the born of a new idea and definitely not him trying to say he doesn't even consider him a playable possibility.

And while 47 does fit well, the 3DS roster will still most likely be 6 column and 8 rows. Its the much more likely scenario then it squishing that small.

Although, its possible Mii is not on the main roster but has a spot dedicated to them on the bottom screen, 48, Gematsu, Ridley.

And another possibility (since you are just saying "maybe he thought this") is that Ridley has a move that lets him hover above the ground, but not above nothing. Think Water Kirbys down special from Adventure Wii.

And a placeholder for an animation? that doesn't really make sense.
 

Tree Gelbman

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It makes sense. DLC characters will NOT be on the main CSS. It will be a button that toggles the display. So it'll be a clean division between DLC and standard-set characters.

Nevermind that DLC characters may be unavailable for online play...
That'd be the worst decision that Nintendo could possibly make.

And not to mention the most backwards way of doing DLC in a very popular modern game.

Yeah, sorry. This is not gonna happen.
 

EbonyRubberWolf

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They've already made one character that can't go online, what's stopping them from making that limitation to ALL DLC characters?
 

Tree Gelbman

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They've already made one character that can't go online, what's stopping them from making that limitation to ALL DLC characters?
The difference is that character causes a bevy of problems involving rude and lewd displays and acts.

You really think they'd make say Mewtwo DLC and then tell people "Sorry, can't play a requested character online. Not happening."
 

Neo Zero

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It makes sense. DLC characters will NOT be on the main CSS. It will be a button that toggles the display. So it'll be a clean division between DLC and standard-set characters.

Nevermind that DLC characters may be unavailable for online play...
Nothing about that makes sense at all actually. Why would you make two seperate CSS' especially if DLC characters are one at a time. At best we might get packs of 5 or so, and that wouldn't warrant a new toggable CSS.

Plus not usable online? Sakurai and Nintendo would be fools to release DLC that people couldn't use freely how they wanted. I realize Mii is an exception, but Mii can be anyone, Hitler or ****s so its easier to filter that out of random. No other character has that excuse, DLC or not.
 

EbonyRubberWolf

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Sakurai is very aware at how popular Ridley is and even goes on to say "I suppose it could work, he would have to be slow", That to me sounds like the born of a new idea and definitely not him trying to say he doesn't even consider him a playable possibility.

And while 47 does fit well, the 3DS roster will still most likely be 6 column and 8 rows. Its the much more likely scenario then it squishing that small.

Although, its possible Mii is not on the main roster but has a spot dedicated to them on the bottom screen, 48, Gematsu, Ridley.

And another possibility (since you are just saying "maybe he thought this") is that Ridley has a move that lets him hover above the ground, but not above nothing. Think Water Kirbys down special from Adventure Wii.

And a placeholder for an animation? that doesn't really make sense.
The whatever encounter that was displayed during the direct obviously wasn't ready for prime time, so it stands to reason that there were quite a few placeholders there so that they'd have something to show.
 

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The difference is that character causes a bevy of problems involving rude and lewd displays and acts.

You really think they'd make say Mewtwo DLC and then tell people "Sorry, can't play a requested character online. Not happening."
If we do get DLC characters, they will undoubtedly not be able to be used online, Not everyone will buy them and unless they are on disc DLC, won't be able to fight them.
 

Neo Zero

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If we do get DLC characters, they will undoubtedly not be able to be used online, Not everyone will buy them and unless they are on disc DLC, won't be able to fight them.
There are these things called patches.
 

EbonyRubberWolf

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The difference is that character causes a bevy of problems involving rude and lewd displays and acts.

You really think they'd make say Mewtwo DLC and then tell people "Sorry, can't play a requested character online. Not happening."
Nothing about that makes sense at all actually. Why would you make two seperate CSS' especially if DLC characters are one at a time. At best we might get packs of 5 or so, and that wouldn't warrant a new toggable CSS.

Plus not usable online? Sakurai and Nintendo would be fools to release DLC that people couldn't use freely how they wanted. I realize Mii is an exception, but Mii can be anyone, Hitler or ****s so its easier to filter that out of random. No other character has that excuse, DLC or not.
I would actually think the reporting system would be more than sufficient to take care of offensive Miis, so there's a strong likelihood that if they've decreed Miis non-playable, and everyone has access to them, that characters that not everyone has access to would be barred from online play as well. It would make for a confusing experience for people unaware of DLC releases. "Whoa, how'd you unlock <insert DLC character here>?!" Nevermind that DLC definitely wouldn't be tournament-legal, so forget about maining them for any kind of competitive environment. Basically, what 8-bit Man said.

It'd be simpler for Nintendo to add a disclaimer to DLC purchases than to write code to allow DLC online.
 
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Neo Zero

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There isn't one scene that bans DLC because its DLC. All Nintendo has to do is prepare placeholder files and from there its an easy patch to make it usable.
 

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If your going to have to update the game anyway, then DLC would be very cheep on Nintendos part, as it forces you to have the data in your game but doesn't give you access to it, its like on disc dlc.

And honestly, I only expect the DLC to be new modes or Mii related stuff, maybe add ons to the characters already playable. Whatever it is, I think it won't have any effect online (minus friend play)
 

EbonyRubberWolf

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There isn't one scene that bans DLC because its DLC. All Nintendo has to do is prepare placeholder files and from there its an easy patch to make it usable.
What? Soulcalibur says hi(Necrid, Link, Heihachi, Spawn). Mortal Kombat tourneys also banned Kratos. Not DLC, but non-universal content is frankly unfair to bring to tournaments because people don't have a chance to study them.
 
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UpsilonFox

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If we do get DLC characters, they will undoubtedly not be able to be used online, Not everyone will buy them and unless they are on disc DLC, won't be able to fight them.
Other games with online and actual DLC (as in not on disc) have already thought of this. An example is CoD which only matches you up in random online with people with the same DLC installed, if you have none installed you will only be put in games with people with no DLC. If you only have Map pack 2, you will only face people with just Map Pack 2.

I don't see why they can't do that here.

The other solution is to install the characters in patches and purchase unlocks them, since you have to have the most up-to-date patch to play online it won't create issues.
 
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Tree Gelbman

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What? Soulcalibur says hi(Necrid, Link, Heihachi, Spawn). Mortal Kombat tourneys also banned Kratos. Not DLC, but non-universal content is frankly unfair to bring to tournaments because people don't have a chance to study them.
I'm about to say something that shocks you because it's forgotten around here quite often...

The Smash competitive community isn't the only one that matters when it comes to Smash.
 

Ryuutakeshi

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They'd have to have a second page because DLC would otherwise unbalance the look of the CSS. And we can't have that.

Also, why would anyone buy the DLC if you can't play it in half the game?
 
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