Official 4BR Tier List V4 - Competitive Insight & Analysis

[Prince Koopa Jr]

I am pretty disappointed that Smash Masters League at Vegas was very much overlooked from the Smash Community. The prize pot is huge, with $25,000 waiting to be rewarded. However, less than 100 people have signed up to compete Smash Masters League and it has one week before the tournament is going to start. That tournament needs to have more entrants because that prize pot definetly means something.

Smash Masters League at Vegas needs to advertise their tournament to the wide public.

I agree, a tournament like that should be made more aware of, especially with a prize pot that large.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

I agree, a tournament like that should be made more aware of, especially with a prize pot that large.

To makes things worse, that tournament has the same schedual as Full Bloom. Full Bloom has more entrants than Smash Masters League. Smash Masters League definetly needs attention, especially the huge prize pot. They need to advertise their tournament publically quick!

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

To makes things worse, that tournament has the same schedutheal as Full Bloom. Full Bloom has more entrants than Smash Masters League. Smash Masters League definetly needs attention, especially the huge prize pot. They need to advertise their tournament publically quick!

To makes things worse, that tournament has the same schedual as Full Bloom. Full Bloom has more entrants than Smash Masters League. Smash Masters League definetly needs attention, especially the huge prize pot. They need to advertise their tournament publically quick!

They definitely need to advertise their tournament better to get more people to attend.

 

[Minordeth]

A Hypothetical:
I’m not sure how many of you are aware, but two massive first-to-ten exhibitions took place over the past month or so.

More recently, SonicFox played against GO1 in DBZF, and Tokido challenged Daigo in SFV. I won’t go into who they all are, because the matches themselves aren’t what I’m focusing on.

Rather, FT10 is something of a gauge of “who is really a better player” within the FGC.

Tokido challenged Daigo because he wanted to see how far the “real” gap between them was, outside of BO3 tournaments.

SonicFox and GO1 are both seen as the best in the game. It also happens that SonicFox thinks that a character on GO1’s team is trash.

The Point:
Anyway, it got me thinking of this hypothetical: who would I wager on in an FT10 to beat any given player. This is given that in most FT10s, character selection is locked.

Essentially, who is going to succeed if they can’t switch off for a possible 19 games?

At this point in the meta, I’d probably wager on either Dabuz and Rosa or honestly, Mr. R and Sheik.

Dabuz, as his adjustments and analytic ability would most likely carry a bad Rosa MU through a FT10.

Mr. R, as even though he has a tendency to let nerves interfere with his decision making, once he adjusted to the longer set, I doubt his opponent could stay ahead.

I really actually just want to see this concept infiltrate the Smash Community a bit more.

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

A Hypothetical:
I’m not sure how many of you are aware, but two massive first-to-ten exhibitions took place over the past month or so.

More recently, SonicFox played against GO1 in DBZF, and Tokido challenged Daigo in SFV. I won’t go into who they all are, because the matches themselves aren’t what I’m focusing on.

Rather, FT10 is something of a gauge of “who is really a better player” within the FGC.

Tokido challenged Daigo because he wanted to see how far the “real” gap between them was, outside of BO3 tournaments.

SonicFox and GO1 are both seen as the best in the game. It also happens that SonicFox thinks that a character on GO1’s team is trash.

The Point:
Anyway, it got me thinking of this hypothetical: who would I wager on in an FT10 to beat any given player. This is given that in most FT10s, character selection is locked.

Essentially, who is going to succeed if they can’t switch off for a possible 19 games?

At this point in the meta, I’d probably wager on either Dabuz and Rosa or honestly, Mr. R and Sheik.

Dabuz, as his adjustments and analytic ability would most likely carry a bad Rosa MU through a FT10.

Mr. R, as even though he has a tendency to let nerves interfere with his decision making, once he adjusted to the longer set, I doubt his opponent could stay ahead.

I really actually just want to see this concept infiltrate the Smash Community a bit more.

It would be interesting if the smash community starting doing this too. FT10s are all about seeing who can adapt quickly and who is a better player. I've seen grudge matches in the FGC that are FT10.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

Sonic Fox got destroyed 4-10. As for Smash, I would like to see Dabuz vs Zero, or Dabuz vs Void.

 

[The_Bookworm]

There are two C tier events this weekend, with Umebura 31 starting in the middle of the week (also C Tier).

Overclocked II
PGR'ed Players
Dabuz
Marss
Samsora
Mr. E
Shoyo James
Light

Non PGR'ed, but notable (not making the same mistake again)
Dark Wizzy
Pugwest
Sinji
Raptor
Raffi-X
John Numbers
Koolaid
IceArrow
LeeT

Rise 2018
PGR'ed Players
Tweek
Elegant
Lima
K9sbruce

Non PGR'ed, but notable
Luhtie
Stroder
PiXL
Z
BestNess
VaLoR
Soulimar
Kiraflax
ven
ROM

Major Update: A new C Tier popped up this weekend: Rikabura 9 (a Japan event). SML: Battle for Vegas has been promoted to an A Tier event.

Link to PGR v5 data thread, and PGR v4 recap:
https://smashboards.com/threads/pgr-v5-updates-and-pgr-v4-recap.453122/

 

[Kofu]

VaLoR is also a notable player at Rise

 

[Finh009]

Rikabura 9 (96 Entrants) (Tokyo, Japan)
Bracket: https://challonge.com/Rikabura9T

1st. KEN
2nd. Abadango
3rd. T
4th. RSZ | Umeki
5th. Raito
5th. Yakara
7th. Eim
7th. takera

Spoiler: Rest of Top 16

9th. Matcha
9th. Repo
9th. RYO
9th. Yuzu
13th. Brood
13th. Mona
13th. TKM
13th. WP | Suinoko

 

[The-Technique]

KEN beat Abadango? That's a surprise, he's usually had a lot of trouble with Bayonetta in the past.

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

KEN beat Abadango? That's a surprise, he's usually had a lot of trouble with Bayonetta in the past.

Ken must've did his homework on the Bayo matchup. Abadango was definitely a large hurtle for Ken to overcome.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Overclocked II

1st: Dabuz
2nd: Marss
3rd: Light
4th: Samsora
5th: John Numbers
5th: Mr. E
7th: Raptor
7th: Dark Wizzy
9th: Shoyo James
9th: Pugwest
9th: Koolaid
9th: JaKaL
13th: LeeT
13th: Glare
13th: Raffi-X
13th: Craftis

I hope Marss participates in more tournaments in the future.

Also, Rikabura 9 suddenly disappeared from the PGR chart....

 

[TDK]

Yeti confirmed for Hyrule saga.

I've heard him hailed as the best US Tink, so we could see him make it decently far.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Rise 2018
Top 8:
Winners:
Tweek vs Brosinex
Elegant vs Lima

Losers:
K9sbruce vs Stoder
BestNess vs SS

Cool to see Villy's in top 8 again, even if the player just co-mains him.

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

Rise 2018
Top 8:
Winners:
Tweek vs Brosinex
Elegant vs Lima

Losers:
K9sbruce vs Stoder
BestNess vs SS

Cool to see Villy's in top 8 again, even if the player just co-mains him.

Also, a Greninja player in top 8, very interesting. That characters not too common.

 

[MarioManTAW]

Yeti confirmed for Hyrule saga.

I've heard him hailed as the best NA Tink, so we could see him make it decently far.

I assume you mean best US Toon Link? (RIP Hyuga)

 

[The_Bookworm]

Also, a Greninja player in top 8, very interesting. That characters not too common.

So far:
BestNess vs SS 0-3 (Out at 7th)
K9sbruce vs Stoder 3-0 (Out at 7th)
Tweek vs Brosinex 3-0 (To Loser's Quarter-Finals)
Elegant vs Lima 3-1 (To Loser's Quarter-Finals)

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

That lima vs brosinex set was really hard to watch

 

[The-Technique]

That lima vs brosinex set was really hard to watch

Yeah that was a shame. Still he placed way higher than what he was seeded for, so congrats to him.

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

Yeah that was a shame. Still he placed way higher than what he was seeded for, so congrats to him.

That Bayo matchup sure is a toughie for Ryu because hes such a large target. Combine this with his slow movement speed and he can just get camped out by Bayo.

 

[J0eyboi]

That Bayo matchup sure is a toughie for Ryu because hes such a large target. Combine this with his slow movement speed and he can just get camped out by Bayo.

Neither of those things is why he gets camped out so hard. Sure, Ryu's a big target, but so are Cloud, who I believe goes even with Bayo, and to a lesser extent Corrin, who potentially beats Bayo while also being slower than Ryu. Speaking of Ryu being slow, he's not. His walk speed is terrible, yes, but he has a 1.12 airspeed, 12th best in the game and .15 higher than Bayo's .97, while his 1.6 runspeed is tied for 28th with Bayo (and also Mario). I don't know exactly why Ryu does get camped out by Bayo, but it should not be his mobility. Unless it's his inability to change direction in the air, because holy ****, he is awful at that.

Edit: phrasing

 

[PURGE THEM LIKE THE]

Ryu doesn't have the best range on his attacks, and his complete lack of aerial weaving means every jump is a big commitment. He also doesn't have any notable burst options and has trashy projectiles.

 

[Minordeth]

That Bayo matchup sure is a toughie for Ryu because hes such a large target. Combine this with his slow movement speed and he can just get camped out by Bayo.

Wait... what? Ryu doesn’t really get camped by Bayo. Bayo isn’t on the level of some of the other top tier MUs in terms of difficulty. Rosa, for instance, sucks.

Neither of those things is why he gets camped out so hard. Sure, Ryu's a big target, but so are Cloud, who I believe goes even with Bayo, and to a lesser extent Corrin, who very much beats Bayo while also being slower than Ryu. Speaking of Ryu being slow, he's not. His walk speed is terrible, yes, but he has a 1.12 airspeed, 12th best in the game and .15 higher than Bayo's .97, while his 1.6 runspeed is tied for 28th with Bayo (and also Mario). I don't know exactly why Ryu does get camped out by Bayo, but it should not be his mobility. Unless it's his inability to change direction in the air, because holy ****, he is awful at that.

I like this “Corrin beats Bayo” thing you’ve got going. I don’t know if I’m fully on board, but I like it.

Keep in minds Ryu doesn’t have the aerial burst option that Bayo does with ABK. Yeah, she has two uses, but it lets her zip around albeit with some drawbacks.

Ryu’s “special” jump is awful. That combined with his uniquely horrible air acceleration of .025 means that he has to rely on Focus to drift. Sort of. Getting juggled with multihits ruins his day.

But Ryu can deal with Bayo’s buttons just fine, otherwise.

Ryu doesn't have the best range on his attacks, and his complete lack of aerial weaving means every jump is a big commitment. He also doesn't have any notable burst options and has trashy projectiles.

Yup. Except for the range part. His legs are just insane disjoints. Like, his feet have an additional hitbox - not connected to anything - that extends his range to Marcina levels. Also, the Uair hitbox is hilariously massive. His fist has got some crazy ki stuff going on, cause it’s basically an invisible beachball.

Bayo can never afford a trade with Ryu. And her only burst option on the ground gets murdered by frame 5 Dsmash.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Rise 2018

1st: Tweek
2nd: Elegant
3rd: Lima
4th: Brosinex
5th: K9sbruce
5th: SS
7th: Stroder
7th: BestNess
9th: Xzax
9th: Legit
9th: Skylar
9th: Luhtie
13th: PiXL
13th: Kiraflax
13th: Z
13th: Soulimar

A Ryu player that I never heard of before made it to top 8 winner's side.....
He will be noted.

 

[WiFi]

Rise 2018

1st: Tweek
2nd: Elegant
3rd: Lima
4th: Brosinex
5th: K9sbruce
5th: SS
7th: Stroder
7th: BestNess
9th: Xzax
9th: Legit
9th: Skylar
9th: Luhtie
13th: PiXL
13th: Kiraflax
13th: Z
13th: Soulimar

A Ryu player that I never heard of before made it to top 8 winner's side.....
He will be noted.

He out placed K9, Xzax, Luhtie, Legit, and Stroder. Quite the hidden monster.

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

Rise 2018

1st: Tweek
2nd: Elegant
3rd: Lima
4th: Brosinex
5th: K9sbruce
5th: SS
7th: Stroder
7th: BestNess
9th: Xzax
9th: Legit
9th: Skylar
9th: Luhtie
13th: PiXL
13th: Kiraflax
13th: Z
13th: Soulimar

A Ryu player that I never heard of before made it to top 8 winner's side.....
He will be noted.

Usually it's either Locus or Darkshad making notable placements, this Ryu looks interesting.

 

[MarioManTAW]

A Ryu player that I never heard of before made it to top 8 winner's side.....
He will be noted.

Never heard of him? 2nd in Las Vegas (since JK became inactive), 33rd @ SCR Saga (losing to Mistake & Mr. R), 49th @ ZeRo Saga (losing to Ally & Zenyou), 49th @ Nairo Saga (losing to Lima & ANTi), 97th @ Evo 2017 (losing to Mr. R & ikep).

 

[Lord Dio]

oh hey look pit finally placed in torunament

 

[The_Bookworm]

oh hey look pit finally placed in torunament

Earth exists, but it seems like a while since an American Pit is placed in a PGR'ed event.

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

Earth exists, but it seems like a while since an American Pit is placed in a PGR'ed event.

Pit is a pretty rare character to see in tournament, there are just characters that can do what he can but better.

 

[Yonder]

oh hey look pit finally placed in torunament

I was more shocked about Dark Pit,even as a secondary. Isn't he like, bottom 5 in results?

At least he kind of serves as a Rosa niche with his side B

 

[The_Bookworm]

I was more shocked about Dark Pit,even as a secondary. Isn't he like, bottom 5 in results?

At least he kind of serves as a Rosa niche with his side B

Japan, which is the home for Pit results, thinks that Dark Pit is a strictly inferior character to Pit due to poorer arrow control, which is why he was ranked three places below Pit in the second official tier list. I was literally thinking about Dark Pit's side B eliminating Luma instantly lol.

 

[MarioManTAW]

I was more shocked about Dark Pit,even as a secondary. Isn't he like, bottom 5 in results?

At least he kind of serves as a Rosa niche with his side B

A nearly identical clone of an already unpopular character... makes sense.

 

[ARISTOS]

We don't talk about doubles often, but since Cloud being removed from doubles play altogether seems to be emerging consensus amongst rulesets, I think it'd be interesting to think about the meta impact it'll carry.

The most common sentiment is that Bayonetta now becomes the strongest doubles character. Is that something people agree with?

 

[The_Bookworm]

We don't talk about doubles often, but since Cloud being removed from doubles play altogether seems to be emerging consensus amongst rulesets, I think it'd be interesting to think about the meta impact it'll carry.

The most common sentiment is that Bayonetta now becomes the strongest doubles character. Is that something people agree with?

Yes, but not at Cloud's levels of dominance in doubles.

Btw, I checked the PGR list again, and I noticed that Midwest Mayhem is registered as a C Tier event again....

 

[Finh009]

Umebura 31 is tonight!
Featuring:

KEN
Abadango
DNG | Kameme
Raito
T
Kome
Eim
takera
Somé
Lea
Kisha
Choco
Earth
DNG | Nietono
Tsuji (Edge)
Kuro
shky
Rain
Towa
Umeki
ikep
Gackt

Pools: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19rv-jEZhpwCrZ1-QBws5qoaRkTuMAuYRt0u2hqdn51M/htmlview
Bracket: (Update when avalible)
Stream: https://m.twitch.tv/shi_gaming/profile

 

[J0eyboi]

Umebura 31 is tonight!
Featuring:

KEN
Abadango
DNG | Kameme
Raito
T
Kome
Eim
takera
Somé
Lea
Kisha
Choco
Earth
DNG | Nietono
Tsuji (Edge)
Kuro
shky
Rain
Towa
Umeki
ikep
Gackt

Pools: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19rv-jEZhpwCrZ1-QBws5qoaRkTuMAuYRt0u2hqdn51M/htmlview
Bracket: (Update when avalible)
Stream: https://m.twitch.tv/shi_gaming/profile

That's a lot of Corrins. (Overall, not just notable ones)

Out of curiosity, what do the *s next to various people's names mean?

 

[Finh009]

Out of curiosity, what do the *s next to various people's names mean?

The * means that the player is from a region outside of Tokyo.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Umebura 31 is tonight!
Featuring:

KEN
Abadango
DNG | Kameme
Raito
T
Kome
Eim
takera
Somé
Lea
Kisha
Choco
Earth
DNG | Nietono
Tsuji (Edge)
Kuro
shky
Rain
Towa
Umeki
ikep
Gackt

Pools: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19rv-jEZhpwCrZ1-QBws5qoaRkTuMAuYRt0u2hqdn51M/htmlview
Bracket: (Update when avalible)
Stream: https://m.twitch.tv/shi_gaming/profile

This tourney looks stacked! I cannot access the link to the bracket on the PGR Chart, so I am just going to await the results. It is right now a C Tier event.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Umebura 31 is tonight!
Featuring:

KEN
Abadango
DNG | Kameme
Raito
T
Kome
Eim
takera
Somé
Lea
Kisha
Choco
Earth
DNG | Nietono
Tsuji (Edge)
Kuro
shky
Rain
Towa
Umeki
ikep
Gackt

Pools: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19rv-jEZhpwCrZ1-QBws5qoaRkTuMAuYRt0u2hqdn51M/htmlview
Bracket: (Update when avalible)
Stream: https://m.twitch.tv/shi_gaming/profile

I pray that Gackt will hopefully placed top 13th or higher. He always place 17th.