Official 4BR Tier List V4 - Competitive Insight & Analysis

[ぱみゅ]

In Japan you never know.
Maybe a Rosalina player you've never heard of before will tear the losers bracket and place like 4th

 

[Iridium]

In Japan you never know.
Maybe a Rosalina player you've never heard of before will tear the losers bracket and place like 4th

I personally look forward to seeing T at least place in top 8. Recently, he has been barely missing it and suffering strange losses.

 

[The_Bookworm]

I pray that Gackt will hopefully placed top 13th or higher. He always place 17th.

17th is not a bad placement for a non top 15 character, but it seems to be a syndrome Gackt suffers from (similar to Nairo's 9th placement syndrome at one point in 2017).

I personally look forward to seeing T at least place in top 8. Recently, he has been barely missing it and suffering strange losses.

T is a strong player, but sometimes Link being a mid tier character can sometimes come back to haunt you against skilled top tier users. I hope to see him perform well though.

 

[Iridium]

17th is not a bad placement for a non top 15 character, but it seems to be a syndrome Gackt suffers from (similar to Nairo's 9th placement syndrome at one point in 2017).

T is a strong player, but sometimes Link being a mid tier character can sometimes come back to haunt you against skilled top tier users. I hope to see him perform well though.

True, but I feel so hyped for him, especially when he almost beat Abadango at the recent Rikabura and had a close set with KEN.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

45 out of the top 100 players in japan's PR will be attending this event.

 

[ぱみゅ]

And still very little PGR recognition.

 

[Rizen]

I hate to say it but, T is held back by Link. Like Gluttony is by Wario, Abadango was by Pac Man, etc, etc. With T's playstyle he could be a very strong Marth/Bowser or possibly Mewtwo player. Link's undertuned and has an uphill battle vs most of the characters above him. Highly skilled players can certainly overcome -1 MUs but he'll never break the glass ceiling of scoring some top 8s, mostly top 32s and never winning large events.

 

[The_Bookworm]

I hate to say it but, T is held back by Link. Like Gluttony is by Wario, Abadango was by Pac Man, etc, etc. With T's playstyle he could be a very strong Marth/Bowser or possibly Mewtwo player. Link's undertuned and has an uphill battle vs most of the characters above him. Highly skilled players can certainly overcome -1 MUs but he'll never break the glass ceiling of scoring some top 8s, mostly top 32s and never winning large events.

That guy single-handily brought Link to the upper mid tiers (or middle of mid tiers; depending on how you view the C Tier), and still is going strong (obviously not as high as Civil War, but you know what I mean). If he enjoys Link's playstyle and thinks it can bring him to the highest he can be, then he shall keep on going.

 

[Rizen]

That guy single-handily brought Link to the upper mid tiers (or middle of mid tiers; depending on how you view the C Tier), and still is going strong (obviously not as high as Civil War, but you know what I mean). If he enjoys Link's playstyle and thinks it can bring him to the highest he can be, then he shall keep on going.

I wouldn't say single-handedly, other Links like Scizor have put in a lot of work. Link has a good deal of regional presence. Although Scizor and T seem to be the only Link players capable of preforming well at majors.

T always seems to be having fun when playing; that's important. I never see him looking stressed or genuinely angry.

 

[WiFi]

I hate to say it but, T is held back by Link. Like Gluttony is by Wario, Abadango was by Pac Man, etc, etc. With T's playstyle he could be a very strong Marth/Bowser or possibly Mewtwo player. Link's undertuned and has an uphill battle vs most of the characters above him. Highly skilled players can certainly overcome -1 MUs but he'll never break the glass ceiling of scoring some top 8s, mostly top 32s and never winning large events.

Gluttony is very held back by Wario. With his item play and neutral he could possibly be the best Diddy if he changed characters. He could also possibly be a top 3 Sheik or Cloud. I feel that Gluttony should at least get a top-tier secondary, as that would help him with some of Wario's harder matchups.

 

[Iridium]

I wouldn't say single-handedly, other Links like Scizor have put in a lot of work. Link has a good deal of regional presence. Although Scizor and T seem to be the only Link players capable of preforming well at majors.

T always seems to be having fun when playing; that's important. I never see him looking stressed or genuinely angry.

What about his Toon Link and even Corrin?

 

[The_Bookworm]

I wouldn't say single-handedly, other Links like Scizor have put in a lot of work. Link has a good deal of regional presence. Although Scizor and T seem to be the only Link players capable of preforming well at majors.

T always seems to be having fun when playing; that's important. I never see him looking stressed or genuinely angry.

Very true.

Gluttony is very held back by Wario. With his item play and neutral he could possibly be the best Diddy if he changed characters. He could also possibly be a top 3 Sheik or Cloud. I feel that Gluttony should at least get a top-tier secondary, as that would help him with some of Wario's harder matchups.

As I said before, if the character feels right to him and brings out the most success, use the character.


Here what to expect of the upcoming weekend: Full Bloom 4, Sumabato 24 (also C Tier), and SML: Battle for Vegas.

Full Bloom 4 (C Tier)
PGR'ed Players
ANTi
Samsora
Zinoto
Darkshad
tyroy
Ryuga

Notable, Not PGR'ed, Players
Locus
Ned
Mystearica
sinnyboo242
big_mak
Ozone
Nom

SML: Battle for Vegas (A Tier)
PGR'ed Players
Salem
MKLeo
Tweek
Larry Lurr
VoiD
Ally
Cosmos
Captain Zack
Konga
Charliedaking
Fatality
falln
K9sbruce
AC

Notable, Not PGR'ed, Players
Eon
FOW
Karna
Captain L
Brosinex
Z
pu55yking
Kiraflax
ven
AEMehr

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Correction: 40 JPN PR players out of top 100 will be here, not 45. Sumabato is also this weekend which has 41 jpn pr players out of 100

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

Umebura 31 is tonight!
Featuring:

KEN
Abadango
DNG | Kameme
Raito
T
Kome
Eim
takera
Somé
Lea
Kisha
Choco
Earth
DNG | Nietono
Tsuji (Edge)
Kuro
shky
Rain
Towa
Umeki
ikep
Gackt

Pools: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19rv-jEZhpwCrZ1-QBws5qoaRkTuMAuYRt0u2hqdn51M/htmlview
Bracket: (Update when avalible)
Stream: https://m.twitch.tv/shi_gaming/profile

That tournament has a large amount of Corrins, she is a pretty solid character. There seems to be a lot of character variation with Japanese smashers.

 

[WiFi]

Very true.

As I said before, if the character feels right to him and brings out the most success, use the character.


Here what to expect of the upcoming weekend: Full Bloom 4, Sumabato 24 (also C Tier), and SML: Battle for Vegas.

Full Bloom 4 (C Tier)
PGR'ed Players
ANTi
Samsora
Zinoto
Darkshad
tyroy
Ryuga

Notable, Not PGR'ed, Players
Locus
Ned
Mystearica
sinnyboo242
big_mak
Ozone
Nom

SML: Battle for Vegas (A Tier)
PGR'ed Players
Salem
MKLeo
Tweek
Larry Lurr
VoiD
Ally
Cosmos
Captain Zack
Konga
Charliedaking
Fatality
falln
K9sbruce
AC

Notable, Not PGR'ed, Players
Eon
FOW
Karna
Captain L
Brosinex
Z
pu55yking
Kiraflax
ven
AEMehr

Is that FOW I see? I'm getting a bit excited now.

 

[TDK]

Umebura 31 (256 Entrants) (Japan)

1st: Towa :
2nd: T
3rd: Abadango
4th: Tosshi
5th: Kome
5th: Kameme
7th: KEN
7th: Umeki
9th: Yuzu
9th: Mao
9th: Zackray
9th: Paseriman
13th: bAhuto
13th: Choco
13th: Kisha
13th: RAIN

Note: Despite being listed as Link/Toon Link in the bracket, T's Toon Link did not take a game from anyone.

Tosshi's run was pretty crazy tonight, beating Matcha , Yakara , Nietono , Mao, and Paseriman before getting stomped by Towa in traditional Rosa vs superheavies fashion. He then beat Kome before falling to T. He also beat Edge in pools.

Towa's run was also pretty crazy, beating Kameme, Abadango, and KEN in winners. I wonder what the Japanese Rosas do that Dabuz doesn't vs KEN? I don't have the numbers but Towa and Yuzu at least have one win on him and Kirihara has a lot.

There was way too many upsets to count tonight, but of note T beat Choco, Kept beat Edge, Lea beat Tsu-, and Yuzu beat Raito in winners. Losers was insane, ending up with a ton of low places:

Nietono , Tsu- , Raito , and Gackt 33rd
Edge and Earth , 49th

 

[Finh009]

ignore this

 

[WiFi]

Umebura 31 (256 Entrants) (Japan)

1st: Towa :
2nd: T
3rd: Abadango
4th: Tosshi
5th: Kome
5th: Kameme
7th: KEN
7th: Umeki
9th: Yuzu
9th: Mao
9th: Zackray
9th: Paseriman
13th: bAhuto
13th: Choco
13th: Kisha
13th: RAIN

Note: Despite being listed as Link/Toon Link in the bracket, T's Toon Link did not take a game from anyone.

Tosshi's run was pretty crazy tonight, beating Matcha , Yakara , Nietono , Mao, and Paseriman before getting stomped by Towa in traditional Rosa vs superheavies fashion. He then beat Kome before falling to T. He also beat Edge in pools.

Towa's run was also pretty crazy, beating Kameme and KEN in winners. I wonder what the Japanese Rosas do that Dabuz doesn't vs KEN? I don't have the numbers but Towa and Yuzu at least have one win on him and Kirihara has a lot.

There was way too many upsets to count tonight, but of note T beat Choco, Kept beat Edge, Lea beat Tsu-, and Yuzu beat Raito in winners. Losers was insane, ending up with a ton of low places:

Nietono , Tsu- , Raito , and Gackt 33rd
Edge and Earth , 49th

Japanese low-tier heroes will always be there to save the day! Charizard is one of the best characters to watch in tournament, imo. Also, we got into this about 10 pages ago but I wanted to bring it up again. What do y'all think of the Zard-Bayo matchup?

 

[Iridium]

Umebura 31 (256 Entrants) (Japan)

1st: Towa :
2nd: T
3rd: Abadango
4th: Tosshi
5th: Kome
5th: Kameme
7th: KEN
7th: Umeki
9th: Yuzu
9th: Mao
9th: Zackray
9th: Paseriman
13th: bAhuto
13th: Choco
13th: Kisha
13th: RAIN

Note: Despite being listed as Link/Toon Link in the bracket, T's Toon Link did not take a game from anyone.

Tosshi's run was pretty crazy tonight, beating Matcha , Yakara , Nietono , Mao, and Paseriman before getting stomped by Towa in traditional Rosa vs superheavies fashion. He then beat Kome before falling to T. He also beat Edge in pools.

Towa's run was also pretty crazy, beating Kameme and KEN in winners. I wonder what the Japanese Rosas do that Dabuz doesn't vs KEN? I don't have the numbers but Towa and Yuzu at least have one win on him and Kirihara has a lot.

There was way too many upsets to count tonight, but of note T beat Choco, Kept beat Edge, Lea beat Tsu-, and Yuzu beat Raito in winners. Losers was insane, ending up with a ton of low places:

Nietono , Tsu- , Raito , and Gackt 33rd
Edge and Earth , 49th

T's wins on bAhuto , Kameme and Abadango were also very notable for him, especially with a Game 5 comeback against the latter. And he made Grand Finals despite not placing first in his pool!

Spoiler

Edge 1-2 Choco:49th (could have been T )
Takera1-2 Earth: 65th
Earth 1-2 Gackt: 49th
Kuro1-2 Matcha: 65th
Yakara1-2 Sanpe: 65th
Ke-ya 0-2 Choco: 65th
Hayato.0-2 Shanrai: 65th
Raito 0-2 Eim: 33rd
Taranito1-2 Brood: 49th
Gackt1-2 Rachi~: 33rd
Ankoro 2-0 Eim: To Losers
Tosshi2-0 Matcha : To Losers
Tosshi2-1 Yakara: To Losers
Tosshi2-0 Nietono : To Losers
Tosshi2-0 Mao: To Losers
Tosshi2-0 Paseriman:To Losers
Tosshi 2-0 Kome: 5th
T2-1 Choco: To Losers
Paseriman2-1 Shky : To Losers
bAhuto2-1 Takera: To Losers
Yuzu2-0 Raito: To Losers
Lea2-1 Tsu-: To Losers
RAIN2-0 Shogun: 33rd
Kameme2-1 Tsu-: 33rd
T2-1 Kameme: 5th
Kameme2-0 Choco: 13th
towa2-1 KEN: To Losers
Urimu2-0 Kuroitsu: 65th
Sesosodji2-1 kept: To Losers
Pazx2-1 Es: 65th
Mao 2-0 Lea: 17th
Mao2-1 RAIN:13th
Kisha2-0 Some: 25th
KaPMk2-0 FILIP: 25th
Kameme2-1 KEN: 7th
KEN2-1 Zackray: 9th
Zackray2-1 bAhuto: 13th
bAhuto 2-1 ikep: 17th
Rokkon2-1 TKM: 49th
KaPMk2-1 Suinoko: 49th
Rachi~2-1 RAIN: To Losers
Rachi~2-0 Nyanko: To Losers
Hirareba72-0 Rachi~: To Losers
towa2-0 Kameme: To Losers
Shanrai2-0 Ke-ya: To Losers
Zackray 2-0 Kuro: To Losers
Some2-0 Earth: To Losers
Tamushika2-1 Suinoko: To Losers
kept2-1 Edge:To Losers
T3-2 Abadango: 3rd
towa3-1 Abadango : To Losers
towa3-2 T: 2nd

All of this in one tourney. Imagine if more JPR members attended this too.

 

[ARGHETH]

Earth lost to Gackt in a strange upset as well.

Wait, did Earth go Corrin?

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Umebura 31 (256 Entrants) (Japan)

1st: Towa :
2nd: T
3rd: Abadango
4th: Tosshi
5th: Kome
5th: Kameme
7th: KEN
7th: Umeki
9th: Yuzu
9th: Mao
9th: Zackray
9th: Paseriman
13th: bAhuto
13th: Choco
13th: Kisha
13th: RAIN

Note: Despite being listed as Link/Toon Link in the bracket, T's Toon Link did not take a game from anyone.

Tosshi's run was pretty crazy tonight, beating Matcha , Yakara , Nietono , Mao, and Paseriman before getting stomped by Towa in traditional Rosa vs superheavies fashion. He then beat Kome before falling to T. He also beat Edge in pools.

Towa's run was also pretty crazy, beating Kameme and KEN in winners. I wonder what the Japanese Rosas do that Dabuz doesn't vs KEN? I don't have the numbers but Towa and Yuzu at least have one win on him and Kirihara has a lot.

There was way too many upsets to count tonight, but of note T beat Choco, Kept beat Edge, Lea beat Tsu-, and Yuzu beat Raito in winners. Losers was insane, ending up with a ton of low places:

Nietono , Tsu- , Raito , and Gackt 33rd
Edge and Earth , 49th

Gackt seems to lose to 3 Foxes in this tournament, Jill, Shogun, and Rachi~. Either Gackt doesnt the Fox MU that much or Gackt generally struggles at it. I think its the latter one.

 

[Wintermelon43]

edit: nevermind

 

[Iridium]

Wait, did Earth go Corrin?

Against Gackt, not sure, but he did use Corrin against Nicorin, but I don't think his match vs. Gackt was on stream. From what I noticed, I think he went more Pit than Corrin.

 

[Das Koopa]

Japanese low-tier heroes will always be there to save the day! Charizard is one of the best characters to watch in tournament, imo. Also, we got into this about 10 pages ago but I wanted to bring it up again. What do y'all think of the Zard-Bayo matchup?

I can't imagine it's good

-no wide-range ding dong percents

-giant hurtbox making countermeasures against bayo's best tools harder

-tall hurtbox means bullets give him a hard time

-exceptionally easy to camp

-probably can't land of ZSS and Rosa are anything to by, also really awful MUs for him

Presumably his recovery isn't that great either but I'm not sure on that

I'd guess 7-3 Bayonetta's favor, maybe Zard can do firebreath shenanigans at the ledge? Idk but even if, that implies you've gotten her in a super defensive position to start with

 

[MarioManTAW]

Presumably his recovery isn't that great either but I'm not sure on that

Not the best but not bad for a heavy. 2 midair jumps and armor on both Up-B and Side-B.

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

I can't imagine it's good

-no wide-range ding dong percents

-giant hurtbox making countermeasures against bayo's best tools harder

-tall hurtbox means bullets give him a hard time

-exceptionally easy to camp

-probably can't land of ZSS and Rosa are anything to by, also really awful MUs for him

Presumably his recovery isn't that great either but I'm not sure on that

I'd guess 7-3 Bayonetta's favor, maybe Zard can do firebreath shenanigans at the ledge? Idk but even if, that implies you've gotten her in a super defensive position to start with

Zard can do some interesting stuff and the armor on fly can help his recovery. He doesn't have a lot of results of unfortunately, very underdeveloped character.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Zard can do some interesting stuff and the armor on fly can help his recovery. He doesn't have a lot of results of unfortunately, very underdeveloped character.

It has about Little Mac / Roy's level of results, which is not good but respectable. Similarly to those two characters, Charizard lingers in the top of low tier and/or bottom of mid tier areas.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Kome vs abadango was the best set of the tourney imo, definitely go check that out on Shi-G youtube channel

 

[J0eyboi]

I'd guess 7-3 Bayonetta's favor, maybe Zard can do firebreath shenanigans at the ledge? Idk but even if, that implies you've gotten her in a super defensive position to start with

7-3 is +-4. Last I checked, even Ganon was only -3 vs. Bayo, so 7-3 is a bit much.

Also, Zard's dash animation could give him an easier time with bullets, depending on whether his wings have hurtboxes and how much it lowers his vertical hitbox, neither of which are things I know.

 

[The_Bookworm]

7-3 is +-4. Last I checked, even Ganon was only -3 vs. Bayo, so 7-3 is a bit much.

Also, Zard's dash animation could give him an easier time with bullets, depending on whether his wings have hurtboxes and how much it lowers his vertical hitbox, neither of which are things I know.

7-3 is +-2.
+-4 is 90-10 matchups, or nearly unloseable matchups, which doesn't exist in SSB4 (or the American/PAL version of SSB64).

 

[J0eyboi]

7-3 is +-2.
+-4 is 90-10 matchups, or nearly unloseable matchups, which doesn't exist in SSB4 (or the American/PAL version of SSB64).

Oh. I thought it was the difference between likelihood of winning for each character over 10, i.e. 55:45 is +-1 (55-45 = 10/10 = 1), 60:40 is +-2 (60-40 = 20/10 = 2), etc, not the difference between a character's likelihood of winning and 50 over 10. Good to know, and never mind what I said earlier. Zard vs Bayo definitely seems -2.

 

[Frihetsanka]

Oh. I thought it was the difference between likelihood of winning for each character over 10, i.e. 55:45 is +-1 (55-45 = 10/10 = 1), 60:40 is +-2 (60-40 = 20/10 = 2), etc, not the difference between a character's likelihood of winning and 50 over 10. Good to know, and never mind what I said earlier. Zard vs Bayo definitely seems -2.

Different people seem to prefer different systems. +1 could be 55:45 or 60:40, +2 could be 60:40 or 70:30, etc. The most common system for Smash 4 seems to be +1 = 55:45, +2 = 60:40, +3 = 65:35, +4 = 70:40. Seeing how there are quite a bit of +2 MUs in Smash 4 I think calling it 60:40 rather than 70:30 is more reasonable, and even some +3 MUs (but no +4 MUs as far as I know).

Or you could go "Slight advantage, advantage, large advantage", I suppose.

Bayonetta wins +2 or +3 vs Charizard.

 

[MH-Jin]

Different people seem to prefer different systems. +1 could be 55:45 or 60:40, +2 could be 60:40 or 70:30, etc. The most common system for Smash 4 seems to be +1 = 55:45, +2 = 60:40, +3 = 65:35, +4 = 70:40. Seeing how there are quite a bit of +2 MUs in Smash 4 I think calling it 60:40 rather than 70:30 is more reasonable, and even some +3 MUs (but no +4 MUs as far as I know).

Or you could go "Slight advantage, advantage, large advantage", I suppose.

Bayonetta wins +2 or +3 vs Charizard.

I think you meant +4=70:30 haha

But ya Charizard large hurtbox does not make it easy to get out of Bayonetta combos.

One thing he may have over other heavies is the use of flame thrower for ledge guarding.. And has more recovery mix-ups back to stage. He also has a kill throw with his upthrow, however he doesn't have a low percent grab kill confirm (from what I recall). Also a lot of his hit boxes have long duration.. Which can make it easy to witch time.

Does zard have any good oos options? That can help if Bayo is pressuring his shield , especially landing with fair (bouncing on shield).

 

[The_Bookworm]

I think you meant +4=70:30 haha

But ya Charizard large hurtbox does not make it easy to get out of Bayonetta combos.

One thing he may have over other heavies is the use of flame thrower for ledge guarding.. And has more recovery mix-ups back to stage. He also has a kill throw with his upthrow, however he doesn't have a low percent grab kill confirm (from what I recall). Also a lot of his hit boxes have long duration.. Which can make it easy to witch time.

Does zard have any good oos options? That can help if Bayo is pressuring his shield , especially landing with fair (bouncing on shield).

The only OOS options I can think of is up B, but it has a weird hitbox on grounded opponents. I don't know.

 

[The-Technique]

In Japan you never know.
Maybe a Rosalina player you've never heard of before will tear the losers bracket and place like 4th

Well you were almost right...he made 1st, lmao.

Also I think this board is cursed, we were just talking about how T is held back by Link, and then he places 2nd over the likes of Choco, KEN, and Abadango.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Well you were almost right...he made 1st, lmao.

Also I think this board is cursed, we were just talking about how T is held back by Link, and then he places 2nd over the likes of Choco, KEN, and Abadango.

ADVANCED COMMENTATOR'S CURSE

No seriously. I wished Gackt would break his 17th placement syndrome and he did... by placing worse alongside other notable Japanese players. Seriously, Umebura 31 is the civil war of Japan tournaments with these upsets.

 

[TDK]

Also I think this board is cursed, we were just talking about how T is held back by Link, and then he places 2nd over the likes of Choco, KEN, and Abadango.

Salem will win every single tournament he enters from here on out, and the top 4 of every tournament will be Salem, Tweek using primarily Bayo, Mistake, and either Lima or Zack.

please work...

 

[Minordeth]

Match up ratios again?

Imma go back to 2001 and use the explanation that an older player told to me when discussing SF3 MUs.

The +/- numbers are a shorthand for the ratios. 50:50 is an even MU right? Take away the zeros for simplification and you get 5:5.

Look at it like a basic equation. Because it is. You can’t modify one side without doing the same to the other. Now, if you move +/-1 away from 5 - on both sides simultaneously - what do you get? 6:4.

Now you move +/-2 away from 5 on both sides. You get 7:3, and so on.

What those numbers mean is up to you (not really), but writing “this MU is -1” is shorthand for “60:40.”

....

Okay, so Aba flubbed so hard in the LF game against T . But I’ll call it a wash because T apparently doesn’t know that Link can murder heelslide.

Watching Link’s bombs disrupt ABK was lowkey hilarious.

About midway through the set, given how Aba was playing, he shoulda switched to Mewtwo. It’s a little more nerve wracking, but Mewtwo can actually deal with projectiles and, honestly, can cap Link’s stocks better than Bayo.

Let’s be real for a second, if Bayo can’t gimp a Link or a Ryu or a [insert heavy-ish character here], or kill them before 110-120% or so, they are gonna live forever. Noticeably both Brosinex and T this last week lived well into max rage because their opponents couldn’t take them out.

No one wants to fight a max rage Link.

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

Salem will win every single tournament he enters from here on out, and the top 4 of every tournament will be Salem, Tweek using primarily Bayo, Mistake, and either Lima or Zack.

please work...

Pretty much, Bayo is taking over the meta. Sooner or later everyone will be playing Bayo. Even Dabuz has a Bayo he pulls out every now and then.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Ness will continue to be neglected by the Smash Community and his results will continue to go unnoticed.

Ice Climbers will return to Smash Switch with a grab infinite that will make everyone hate life.

Dedede will get nerfed again and the "better nerf" memes will come alive again.

please work...