MarioManTAW
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2016
- Messages
- 843
Hard refresh (Ctrl+F5 in Chrome)The new stock icons for the 5 new characters from the direct just came in, but they are invisible to me. I forgot how to fix this issue lol.
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Hard refresh (Ctrl+F5 in Chrome)The new stock icons for the 5 new characters from the direct just came in, but they are invisible to me. I forgot how to fix this issue lol.
Fox has had better results then ZSS as of late imo. Fair footstool ends stocks before they even began and Fox's powerful vortex game makes him a huge threat.Quick question: at this point, who would you think is the character with better results: Fox or ZSS? These characters are typically viewed as not as good as the established top 4, but are more under the radar picks that somehow establish themselves around 5th-6th best in the game. We all know about the ZSS factor where you are never winning until the victory screen, and she's had higher peaks than Fox; however, she does have consistency issues. Fox, on the other hand, has proven to be quite consistent, despite his bad disadvantage and (very, VERY) wrong perception that he's the most honest of the top tiers (or that he's even honest at all). Anyways, I think a discussion about these less talked about characters in the meta would be interesting.
According to the latest Das Koopa chart, Fox is up 17.25 points over ZSS. Based on results since then I'd say their results are about equal.Quick question: at this point, who would you think is the character with better results: Fox or ZSS? These characters are typically viewed as not as good as the established top 4, but are more under the radar picks that somehow establish themselves around 5th-6th best in the game. We all know about the ZSS factor where you are never winning until the victory screen, and she's had higher peaks than Fox; however, she does have consistency issues. Fox, on the other hand, has proven to be quite consistent, despite his bad disadvantage and (very, VERY) wrong perception that he's the most honest of the top tiers (or that he's even honest at all). Anyways, I think a discussion about these less talked about characters in the meta would be interesting.
It is hard to say. I would say Fox mostly due to having a larger representation, but those who main ZSS (Nairo, Marss, Choco, shky, etc) have the higher peaks.Quick question: at this point, who would you think is the character with better results: Fox or ZSS? These characters are typically viewed as not as good as the established top 4, but are more under the radar picks that somehow establish themselves around 5th-6th best in the game. We all know about the ZSS factor where you are never winning until the victory screen, and she's had higher peaks than Fox; however, she does have consistency issues. Fox, on the other hand, has proven to be quite consistent, despite his bad disadvantage and (very, VERY) wrong perception that he's the most honest of the top tiers (or that he's even honest at all). Anyways, I think a discussion about these less talked about characters in the meta would be interesting.
It started before that, because ZeRo posted a video about "Is Fox Honest?" before that, and I think his video was in response to a controversial Larry Lurr tweet saying that Fox was honest. That tweet was the source of the Civil War skit.It is hard to say. I would say Fox mostly due to having a larger representation, but those who main ZSS (Nairo, Marss, Choco, shky, etc) have the higher peaks.
Btw, people don't actually think Fox is honest. It is a widespread joke which started with this amusing Civil War skit. I can't find the video for it so I will describe it the best as I can. Someone (forgot who) was interviewing Larry Lurr who was laying down on a couch with a Fox doll:
"Stealing money from the bank [or something like that]. Is that honest?"
"That is not honest."
"Lying to your mother. Is that honest?"
"That is not honest."
"Fox forward air into footstool killing at 0%. Is that honest?"
"That is honest."
"Max rage Donkey Kong--- up throw into up air killing at 40%. Is that honest?"
"That is honest."
I cannot believe I remember all of this. XD
Mostly representation. Manny and Wrath doesn't travel much, and KEN doesn't go to America anymore.Man, I was thinking, Sonic is basically the forgotten top tier. Whenever KEN shows up, people remember that Sonic is really dumb, but then they forget.
Is it just because Salem dissed Sonic into oblivion? Manny is looking like he has done that Light-esque upgrade into a top player, but he doesn’t travel cause Bayo.
I mean, I don’t play Sonic. It doesn’t seem like Bayo is that insurmountable. And Sonic has dumb gimmick crap that I don’t see much, so what’s up? Is it really just Bayo? Or is it Representation?
Is it possible that you can tell where do you think Link's current mobility might stand? Me and the Link social couldn't really say much about it.Here is a little bit of an analysis on the K. Rool, Chrom, and Dark Samus footage.
Gameplay Changes:
- The game appears to be more polished in this build of the game than at the E3 demo.
- This is off of what I see, but it looks like dash dancing is made slightly better than it already is, or at least K. Rool's dashdance is good.
- Again, from what I see, the landing lag from using directional airdodges seems to have decreased. It makes wavelanding more practical than at the E3 demo, and restores wavedashing somewhat, but both are not at the same degree as in Melee.
- The way the characters are launched are more normalized than in the E3 build of the game.
- Loading screens seem to have sped up.
- During the Chrom/Dark Samus showcase, a glitch involving stage morph has already been found. Ridley's side B command grab acted strangly as the stage morphed.
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To be honest I've always considered sonic the weakest and most overrated top tier of the bunch. For all the hype I've seen some people place him in top 5 or higher he really doesn't have the matchup spread to back it up. I think sonic is barely top tier.Man, I was thinking, Sonic is basically the forgotten top tier. Whenever KEN shows up, people remember that Sonic is really dumb, but then they forget.
Is it just because Salem dissed Sonic into oblivion? Manny is looking like he has done that Light-esque upgrade into a top player, but he doesn’t travel cause Bayo.
I mean, I don’t play Sonic. It doesn’t seem like Bayo is that insurmountable. And Sonic has dumb gimmick crap that I don’t see much, so what’s up? Is it really just Bayo? Or is it Representation?
to be honest, I have never understood why sonic loses to Bayonetta, Bayonetta is not good at dealing with camping and sonic is the campiest character in the gameSolidly losing to:![]()
counter-camp with bullet arts to force his hand, sonic has to do something or he loses the leadBayonetta is not good at dealing with camping
debatableand sonic is the campiest character in the game
With enough of a lead, Arts aren't really a threat. That said, it takes a while to get that much of a lead, and Sonic is pretty vulnerable to camping himself if he doesn't have one.counter-camp with bullet arts to force his hand, sonic has to do something or he loses the lead
really bullet arts is crazy good at forcing people to commit to something, not really sure where this idea would come from
This is a Smash 4 thread, not an Ultimate thread.Here is a little bit of an analysis on the K. Rool, Chrom, and Dark Samus footage.
Gameplay Changes:
- The game appears to be more polished in this build of the game than at the E3 demo.
- This is off of what I see, but it looks like dash dancing is made slightly better than it already is, or at least K. Rool's dashdance is good.
- Again, from what I see, the landing lag from using directional airdodges seems to have decreased. It makes wavelanding more practical than at the E3 demo, and restores wavedashing somewhat, but both are not at the same degree as in Melee.
- The way the characters are launched are more normalized than in the E3 build of the game.
- Loading screens seem to have sped up.
- During the Chrom/Dark Samus showcase, a glitch involving stage morph has already been found. Ridley's side B command grab acted strangly as the stage morphed.
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Thinkaman said that Ultimate topics are allowed in this thread, although it is still SSB4 central.This is a Smash 4 thread, not an Ultimate thread.
I look forward to seeing some upsets.Thinkaman said that Ultimate topics are allowed in this thread, although it is still SSB4 central.
Speaking of which, what are you guys anticipating at Shine this year?
The first problem is I think your interpretation of Sonic's actual MU spread is slightly off which could be clouding your interpretation of the character as well. I would personally move a bunch around such as Sonic most likely winning vs Diddy (none of the Top Diddy's think they win while Dyr & MVD for example believe Sonic wins and it matches up in theory imo). M2/Rosa/Corrin/ZSS even at worst case scenario although M2 probably does the best out of the 4 (only SDX believes it's +1 iirc while WaDi believes even) but the other MUs don't show this in theory or result wise especially if you look at Nairo vs KEN or Dabuz vs Manny/KEN for quick references. Both Nairo/Dabuz think it's even at best & Nairo even thinks Sonic wins. All the Top Corrin mains believe the MU is even at best as well (Cosmos, Ryuga, Frozen, etc). I'd also move MegaMan to winning the MU slightly and Sonic winning vs Pikachu slightly. In all honesty (outside of the slight loss to Mega who is rare at top-level anyways) his MU spread is perfectly fine. Only characters I can see him likely losing to are like: Cloud, Sheik, Fox, Mega and I don't think he has anyone who counters him hard enough for -2.To be honest I've always considered sonic the weakest and most overrated top tier of the bunch. For all the hype I've seen some people place him in top 5 or higher he really doesn't have the matchup spread to back it up. I think sonic is barely top tier.
Uh, the event is over, but you can watch it here: https://www.twitch.tv/shi_gaming.Is Umebura streaming on Twitch? If yes, do we have a link?
Already fixed prior to your comment. Thanks anyways!Eldin is aPR’d in South Carolina.
I would personally swap out Fatality for Mr. R, but overall the players seem accurate.alright, here's a good question, thoughts on top 20 of that top 50 or 100 (I forget which) of all time?
here's my top 20 of all time, ripped from someone else's on reddit and with a few changes, and in no order:
- Fatality
- VoiD
- Nairo
- Dabuz
- ZeRo
- MkLeo
- Ally
- komorikiri
- VoiD
- Larry Lurr
- Salem
- ESAM
- ANTi
- Abadango
- Kameme
- Tweek
- Elegant
- Marss
- KEN
- CaptainZack
shoot, forgot about himI would personally swap out Fatality for Mr. R, but overall the players seem accurate.
Basically on the reply box you should see an icon that looks like a few dots that when you hover over it will say "Insert". Click on it, click "Media", and then copy-paste the tweet's URL. Click Continue and it should embed the tweet into your postI forgot how to again, but can you guys remind me how to post twitter posts into a comment here. There is something that I need to post from there that is important.
Replace the second VoiD instead, maybe.shoot, forgot about him
would personally take out Zack and replace him with Mr R in that case.
Noice.25th: Goblin![]()