Official 4BR Tier List v2.0 - Competitive Impressions

[Nathan Richardson]

For some reason I can never grab his mechakoopa properly, everytime I do I mess it up. I know his recovery, if you get a hit in makes him have to air dodge to reuse it which is a huge weak spot.

 

[Rizen]

I know but I prefer ludwig)

Who doesn't
My opinion of the koopalings has been on a steady decline. They're bottom 10 but not as bad as bottom 5s like Ganon, Swordfighter, Zelda, Jiggz and um, ...hmmmm... -if you leave out Miis they might even be bottom 5 with Samus getting a power boost patch. They have that low tier thing of being hard if you don't know the MU and try to play it strait but lacking if you exploit/cheese them.

 

[Aaron1997]

UGC smash open top 48

Winners

ZeRo vs Pink Fresh
Kameme vs Mr.R
DarkShad vs Mr.E
MKLeovs Marss
IStudyingvs CaptainZack
ESAMvs Void
Nairovs Zinoto
Anti vs Abadango

Losers

NAKATvs Saj
Ksevvs Harlock
Samsoravs MVD
Dayvs Slowjoe
Scattvs Vinnie
Salemvs Nero
FatalityvsTyroy
Allyvs Fry
ChuckNastyvs Dyr
JJrocketsvs Kamikaze
Pugwestvs MJG
LarryLurrvs Doctor B
Xzaxvs James
K.I.D Gogglesvs Joe Barreles
Mew2kingvs Ned
Ryugavs Nom

Characters

5
4
3
2
1

 

[Wintermelon43]

Hrmm....how do people feel about ? (yeah yeah bjr. I know but I prefer ludwig) I know he's another low-tier but I really want to know people's opinions of him.

As He's considered a definite low tier that isn't bottom tier. While he has some good strengths (Such as being good at killing and having a great projectile), but his flaws (Such as a bad disadvantage and a recovery that is LOL when gimped, etc) outweigh the strengths. Plus he has no results really.

As he's considered absolute garbage with no strengths and is a tier below everyone else

 

[Nathan Richardson]

As He's considered a definite low tier that isn't bottom tier. While he has some good strengths (Such as being good at killing and having a great projectile), but his flaws (Such as a bad disadvantage and a recovery that is LOL when gimped, etc) outweigh the strengths. Plus he has no results really.

As he's considered absolute garbage with no strengths and is a tier below everyone else

Sorry but even though I know the last part of the post was a joke it went right over my head. Since I didn't get it, can you explain it?

 

[Fenny]

Sorry but even though I know the last part of the post was a joke it went right over my head. Since I didn't get it, can you explain it?

Wendy looks like the result of some kind of Maybelline monster assaulting a toddler in a Halloween costume.

 

[Das Koopa]

Sorry but even though I know the last part of the post was a joke it went right over my head. Since I didn't get it, can you explain it?

Well, you see, this is directly related to the official Waifu Tier List:

Spoiler: Most Important Project of the Year

waifu tier list

On Top Tier:


Good First Date Tier:


Just Friends/Mentors Tier:


Have a Seat Over There Tier:


That crazy ex that torched your house Tier:

 

[ArnoldPalmer]

Well, you see, this is directly related to the official Waifu Tier List:

Spoiler: Most Important Project of the Year

waifu tier list

On Top Tier:


Good First Date Tier:


Just Friends/Mentors Tier:


Have a Seat Over There Tier:


That crazy ex that torched your house Tier:

Corrin is barefoot therefore she's the best

Jokes aside, I'm pretty sure that Void is the only top sheik Esam hasn't played in tournament. Coincidentally there was discussion of Pikachu vs Sheik a page back.
Esam has shown that Pikachu can effectively deal with every type of sheik play but maybe Voids optimized combos will prove that Sheik does in fact have the edge in the matchup, or maybe Esam will plow through Void like he does most of the time he fights a non-ZeRo Sheik

 

[Rizen]

How have the koopalings fared from patches/DLC? It feels like they were victims of the power creep where several characters got buffed over them but none dropped below. In SSB4 low tier isn't trash so much as 'somebody has to be bottom'. Who's worse than them?

 

[|RK|]

The characters she can have trouble killing out of the top tiers are:
*
This list doesn't seem too bad. ZSS is only difficult to kill if you needle too much or don't go for the openings enough, but Sonic and Mario are both overall hard as hell to get kills on. She has an easier time killing characters like than almost anyone else. If I had to give specific characters, I'd say her killing issues mostly come from the bad/mediocre members of the cast. Examples being:
*
DDD here but almost everyone has trouble killing him. Kirby is much harder to kill than you would expect by looking at his weight.

That's the opposite of what I would have expected, actually. On that note, I can see Fox and Rosa to a degree. But how does she kill Bayonetta easily?

 

[TDK]

UGC smash open top 48

Winners

ZeRo vs Pink Fresh
Kameme vs Mr.R
DarkShad vs Mr.E
MKLeovs Marss
IStudyingvs CaptainZack
ESAMvs Void
Nairovs Zinoto
Anti vs Abadango

Losers

NAKATvs Saj
Ksevvs Harlock
Samsoravs MVD
Dayvs Slowjoe
Scattvs Vinnie
Salemvs Nero
FatalityvsTyroy
Allyvs Fry
ChuckNastyvs Dyr
JJrocketsvs Kamikaze
Pugwestvs MJG
LarryLurrvs Doctor B
Xzaxvs James
K.I.D Gogglesvs Joe Barreles
Mew2kingvs Ned
Ryugavs Nom

Characters

5
4
3
2
1

Literally 3 more weeks and my prediction at the start of the year that Zard wouldn't make it out of pools at any tournament would have come true.

Goddammit.

 

[FeelMeUp]

That's the opposite of what I would have expected, actually. On that note, I can see Fox and Rosa to a degree. But how does she kill Bayonetta easily?

Uthrow into Uair or BF/Vanish
Bayo's height and weight makes Bthrow/Fthrow/Dthrow traps much easier near death percent.
Needles>BF is legitimately broken against Bayo.
etc.
#1 and #3 are all you really need. Give her a throw 50/50 and one of the highest vulnerabilities to Needles>BF of all the top tiers and she becomes stupid easy to kill.

 

[ArnoldPalmer]

How have the koopalings fared from patches/DLC? It feels like they were victims of the power creep where several characters got buffed over them but none dropped below. In SSB4 low tier isn't trash so much as 'somebody has to be bottom'. Who's worse than them?

Gannon, DDD, miis in general, jiggs, that's pretty much all I can think of. As much as I love bjr he's pretty bad and has always been pretty bad to be honest

 

[Wintermelon43]

Sorry but even though I know the last part of the post was a joke it went right over my head. Since I didn't get it, can you explain it?

Well pretty much, Wendy looks like the insane pyscho-girl who flirts creepily with you every time she sees you, and if you date her and mention any other person (espicially a girl) or even if you do even the tiniest thing to annoy them, they go fully berserk on you and try to kill you (And then get arrested later in their life). In morbid-turtle form.

Source:I've watched TV shows before.

 

[Deleted member]

Hail Smash VII (Mexico - 90 entrants)

1) javi
2) Serge
3) Pollo
4) Richi
5) FuerzaDON
5) D•Chag
7) CloudY
7) Yura
9) Richy
9) Simi
9) Dano
9) And

 

[ShadowGuy1]

Literally 3 more weeks and my prediction at the start of the year that Zard wouldn't make it out of pools at any tournament would have come true.

Goddammit.

Pretty sure a Charizard has made it out of pools at some tournament in the last 300 days lol.

 

[Deleted member]

Literally 3 more weeks and my prediction at the start of the year that Zard wouldn't make it out of pools at any tournament would have come true.

Goddammit.

>ChuckNasty got 65th at EVO, currently in top 48 of UGC Smash Open
>Sharpy, SilentDoom and Serge continue to do work with him

:eyes:

 

[ARGHETH]

>ChuckNasty got 65th at EVO,

Ehh...I think technically this still counts as pools.

 

[Illusion.]

TGM 9 (128 entrants): https://smash.gg/tournament/tgm-9-1...la/events/wii-u-singles/brackets/71733/228660
1st. GrimTurtle
2nd. DKwill
3rd. TLTC
4th. SU | Megafox
5th. Deluxemenu
5th. Gnes
7th. Aarrow
7th. Whispy
9th. Slaps
9th. ThisGuy
9th. Twi
9th. Zult
13th. KJ
13th. Jerm
13th. Weegee
13th. Papa Wall

 

[Das Koopa]

yoshi sucks

until someone in tournament proves otherwise he's low tier imo

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Harsh Das Koopa.. I wouldnt say Yoshi deserves to be in the low tiers. I would place him around a solid Mid tier.

 

[Luco]

In case anyone cares about Aus and our "totally relevant" scene, SXC 2016 is messed up.

- Waveguider out at 9th losing to Saber and Ignis (probably or )

- Ghost ) and Extra ( ) fighting for 7th in losers, former lost to Haiku and latter dropped to Yeyha

- Both Ghost and Wave got upset to losers in pools and got the runback in bracket.

- 7/8ths of top 8 is a single region (vic)

So uhh, smash 4 should be up soon, go check it out on www.twitch.tv/kaizmo when melee finishes!

 

[Nathan Richardson]

Well pretty much, Wendy looks like the insane pyscho-girl who flirts creepily with you every time she sees you, and if you date her and mention any other person (espicially a girl) or even if you do even the tiniest thing to annoy them, they go fully berserk on you and try to kill you (And then get arrested later in their life). In morbid-turtle form.

Source:I've watched TV shows before.

So the last part is her saying she wouldn't date any of them or what? Because you called her a he if you were trying to go by her looks...

 

[YerTheBestAROUND]

yoshi sucks

until someone in tournament proves otherwise he's low tier imo

Yeaaaahhh... but then at the same time there's Pit. Then we look at their tools and everything they've got going for and against them and I can't say they're worse than Mid Tier.

 

[Das Koopa]

Pit has accomplishments though

 

[Nu~]

Honestly feels like yoshi is the gatekeeper for mid tier. If your frame data/disjoint/range/mobility ratio is low enough to the point where you consistently get out maneuvered and blown apart by yoshi (Pac-Man...), you're probably low tier or worse.

 

[FeelMeUp]

Yoshi has a few niche matchups that seem like they'd be pretty good.
Plumbers, Ryu, Peach, etc.
But if a character loses to 3 or more of they're probably doomed. He's one of those characters.

So the last part is her saying she wouldn't date any of them or what? Because you called her a he if you were trying to go by her looks...

This is far too offtopic. Just drop the discussion and talk about something more relevant.

 

[L9999]

Harsh Das Koopa.. I wouldnt say Yoshi deserves to be in the low tiers. I would place him around a solid Mid tier.

Name me a Yoshi player that has defeated multiple top/high tier players on big tournaments and whose accomplishments are memorable to the Smash 4 competitive scene. On top of my head I can name breakthorugh performances of low tier characters and name the player. Not Yoshi.

And why are 5 posts in this thread dedicated to waifu trash?

 

[Nathan Richardson]

Sorry it was SUPPOSED to be a topic of where Bowser jr. and the koopalings fit on the tier list and why they fit that way. I got sidetracked by a joke I didn't get and I'm STILL mixed up!

 

[Crimson Avenger]

Sorry it was SUPPOSED to be a topic of where Bowser jr. and the koopalings fit on the tier list and why they fit that way. I got sidetracked by a joke I didn't get and I'm STILL mixed up!

As much as I hate explaining jokes , this Wendy discusion has to stop.

It was supposed to be a joke about Wendy being Bowser jr's worst skin (one of the worst in the game imo) and that's why he said that Bowser jr is even worse with the Wendy skin. Wendy isn't different from Bowser jr gameplay-wise.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

2) Serge

This man plays like a bajillion characters.

That's something I want to bring up though.

In this meta, is it better to focus on one or two characters or can having lots of characters wield better results?

 

[FeelMeUp]

One or two top 10-20 characters should be fine. Fundamentally insane players like ZeRo and Nairo could honestly get away with playing a quarter of the cast in tournament, but that increases variance and the number of specific matchups you have to learn.
Keep in mind that there are roughly 1500 matchups in this game(last I remember) and if you pick up more characters you'll have to put yourself in frequent "throw g1/lose because of not using the right character in the blind pick" situations.

 

[ArnoldPalmer]

I'm not saying its good to play every character in tournament, but its worth learning at least the basics of every character. It makes learning matchups a lot easier. Imo its the best way to learn matchups when you don't have someone really good at x character in your region. Its the only way I expect anyone to know the Charizard or Roy matchup really

 

[Luco]

SXC 2016 (88 entrants):

1st Duon
2nd Ignis
3rd Boozer
4th Jdizzle
5th Ghost
5th Yehya
7th Extra
7th Nothing
9th Snugs
9th Waveguider
9th Pudge
9th Haiku
13th Spewis
13th Saber
13th Vasi
13th Quen

Will need to check to make sure this is all accurate.

This tournament was messed up friands. MESSED UP.

 

[FeelMeUp]

Learning the character's capabilities are good, but you really don't know how it feels to play against a certain character until you play against them. In my example, I had no idea playing against felt so uphill in neutral and easy during combos/100:100 kill situations. Most nuances can't really be found by playing them because you learn how to play specifically against your own self that way. Not in a way that counters the playstyles of most players.

 

[Deleted member]

TGM 9 (128 entrants): https://smash.gg/tournament/tgm-9-1...la/events/wii-u-singles/brackets/71733/228660
1st. GrimTurtle
2nd. DKwill
3rd. TLTC
4th. SU | Megafox
5th. Deluxemenu
5th. Gnes
7th. Aarrow
7th. Whispy
9th. Slaps
9th. ThisGuy
9th. Twi
9th. Zult
13th. KJ
13th. Jerm
13th. Weegee
13th. Papa Wall

I'm so happy for Aarrow. This is a pretty big placing for him, he's a great player and he's been improving so much. <3

Didn't Gnes also use and as well?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Yoshi is broken af.

Corrin is barefoot therefore she's the best

Jokes aside, I'm pretty sure that Void is the only top sheik Esam hasn't played in tournament. Coincidentally there was discussion of Pikachu vs Sheik a page back.
Esam has shown that Pikachu can effectively deal with every type of sheik play but maybe Voids optimized combos will prove that Sheik does in fact have the edge in the matchup, or maybe Esam will plow through Void like he does most of the time he fights a non-ZeRo Sheik

ESAM has lost to just about every high and top level Sheik he's played actually. His record is pretty much as bad as vs Mario.

 

[ArnoldPalmer]

Yoshi is broken af.



ESAM has lost to just about every high and top level Sheik he's played actually. His record is pretty much as bad as vs Mario.

I thought he was positive against every high level sheik but ZeRo?

There needs to be records for top 50 players vs other top 50 players, I don't want to go sorting through half a dozen YouTube channels every time I want to find player records. Maybe that's what ill do with my free time now that I've graduated..

 

[HoSmash4]

if Yoshi is a low tier (which I highly contest) the game really is in a great spot.

 

[JB333]

Breakout 7 (93 entrants) https://smash.gg/tournament/breakout-7/events/wii-u-singles/brackets

1st Rayquaza07
2nd Eureka
3rd Boobear
4th Linus
5th Smasher1001
5th King James
7th Ozone
7th LOE1
9th Runes
9th LouRich
9th Daybreak
9th Regralht
13th Meek
13th Komota
13th SETHsational
13th Kasper