Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

[TriTails]

to be fair, Luigi went from argued Top 3-5 in some instances to somewhere in the 15-25 area, so his nerfs were actually pretty substantial

Except he never was really considered Top 5.

People were agreeing he was overrated af. He was mostly placed within Top 10-15 territory (Often times, just 'high tier' and not 'top tier').

But yes, his nerfs were huge with little to no compensation. But his mains have been getting results lately (Mostly in Top 16 echelon) and that's pretty nice for the arguably the most nerfed character in S4 history (And by 'most nerfed' I mean the impact of the nerfs overall. Sheik and Diddy for example, survived rounds and rounds of nerfs. For Luigi it was basically one nerf and down he went).

I think the character is in upper mid, because his MU spread isn't as nice as other high tiers. So yes, that's quite a fall from Top 10-15 position. But hey, the character's still doin' work, I'm not complaining.

 

[TheGlove]

Just in case you were looking for some good smash

#LVLUPEXPO https://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp Feat: VoiD, Larry Lurr, Fow, Nairo, Scatt Tyrant Falln K9 is in top 32
Void lost a game to a bayo that did 2 off the horizontal blaztzone combos

Scatts on track to fight void

https://www.twitch.tv/sasmelbournesmash and https://www.twitch.tv/jettsmash

The austrlian tournament with Mr R Abadango, 9b, Umeki is in top 64

 

[Shady Shaymin]

It's good that people are starting to see how solid Diddy still is, even after two waves of pretty significant nerfs. On top of dominating in the neutral, excelling in the advantaged state, plentiful kill confirms and having a rather decent disadvantaged state, his learning curve is relatively low. He's not cloud or mario levels of easy, but once you learn his banana tech (which is simpler than people make it out to be), he's a pretty fundamentals based character with some unique options.

On the other hand, I don't think we should get ahead of ourselves and start saying that he's #1, or that he's broken (haven't see anyone complain about this yet, but this community gets riled up pretty easily). His recovery covers great distance and he has good options, but he is so vulnerable offstage. His worst flaw in my opinion that could actually become worse over time is that banana can be stolen and used against him. Now hear me out; I know this isn't too much of an issue right now. Even at top play, people don't properly respond with aerials or shad's to try to stuff out banana toss. And even if they do successfully catch it, most of these players don't do **** with it, and either throw it off the ledge or nonchalantly throw it at Diddy, who reacts to them easily. Hey smashers fighting diddy: if you have the banana, USE IT! Wall Diddy out with projectiles and punish his approaches with banana oos! Use your command grab and mess with his psyche if he's getting too shield-happy! Learn how to JCIT, it's really ****ing easy! Just for the love of god, do something with it.

Diddy's future in the meta is contingent on whether Diddy mains can achiece consistency in the face of an inevitable increase in Diddy counterplay.

 

[Vyrnx]

NairWizard actually Diddy is a fastfaller, and he's pretty light, though heavier than Sheik/ZSS/etc.

Part of what makes Diddy so consistent in addition to depending on non-risky moves and being strong stock to stock is his consistency throughout the opponent's stock. Pikachu can rack damage fast at low percents, and then falls off a little at higher percents. Diddy, on the other hand, is just constantly able to get big conversions at all percentages, his neutral is strong and always a factor, and he has the ability to reset to neutral well.

He has damaging combos at low percents and mid percents, and banana/dtilt death combos beyond that--he has the ability to be in a controlling situation throughout an entire stock, and he has the neutral to get him these conversions.

I agree with Trifroze that Sheik could possibly be the best character, but more than likely it is Diddy (edit: this game has come full circle lol), especially when he has been getting the results he's been getting when ZeRo has been going to no tournaments and really no other top top players are maining him right now (although Zinoto is making a pretty strong case).

 

[Y2Kay]

Diddy Kong is one of reason why i wait before claiming if a nerfed character is actually that gimped, players really overreact to nerfs :

Nerfed Greninja without the compensation buffs wasn't really good IMO

 

[Das Koopa]

apparently Zinoto won Deluge

Why is he so goddamn good

 

[sedrf]

https://www.twitch.tv/fraservalleysmash
Anti lost 3-1 to a bowseer/charizard player

 

[Charoite]

Nerfed Greninja without the compensation buffs wasn't really good IMO

but he was not some low mid tier character like some people tried to claim, the same thing happended with diddy, MVD and zer0 saying he is at best top 15 post nerf, or recently sheik now is top 10 she has no kill setups, sonic mains crying because they can't pull a ness at the ledge with back throw or you remember how people made a huge deal about nerfs, is more about overreaction itself and how it spread in the community that the position of the character in the tier list, right now people are saying is mid tier, and we have less than 2 months with these nerfs, making statements like these is one of the reason why misinformation is prevalent in the community.

 

[Big-Cat]

I wasn't here when ESAM's Bayo video was uploaded but do you think the knowledge of using SDI to escape Bayo's ceiling combos reduces the gap between her and others considerably?

I put it in practice today and I honestly cannot remember if I died from it thanks to SDI as Bowser. I could've died like six times over.

 

[Radical Larry]

https://www.twitch.tv/fraservalleysmash
Anti lost 3-1 to a bowseer/charizard player

Waiting for the Zard players to say that he's a middle tier, never minding the fact that it's not a solo main.

I wasn't here when ESAM's Bayo video was uploaded but do you think the knowledge of using SDI to escape Bayo's ceiling combos reduces the gap between her and others considerably?

I put it in practice today and I honestly cannot remember if I died from it thanks to SDI as Bowser. I could've died like six times over.

Now see, if any opponent (and I mean any) can get under Bayonetta near the ceiling during her cmobos, they NEED to use U-Air. Rising combos are Bayonetta's best combos, but if the opponent manages to get under her (directly or close enough), a powerful enough U-Air will kill her depending on the damage, of course. Or unless you're Corrin, who can just Down B.

Just a little thought.

 

[Y2Kay]

Waiting for the Zard players to say that he's a middle tier, never minding the fact that it's not a solo main.

There is literally no better example of the pot calling the kettle black

 

[Aaron1997]

Abadango is going to be fighting Waveguider soon. This set is very important for the Wii fit Meta. This could be another Istudying Situaltion.

 

[Y2Kay]

With how strong Mewtwo's anti zoning game is, I doubt it.

But there is always hope.

 

[NairWizard]

NairWizard actually Diddy is a fastfaller, and he's pretty light, though heavier than Sheik/ZSS/etc.

Part of what makes Diddy so consistent in addition to depending on non-risky moves and being strong stock to stock is his consistency throughout the opponent's stock. Pikachu can rack damage fast at low percents, and then falls off a little at higher percents. Diddy, on the other hand, is just constantly able to get big conversions at all percentages, his neutral is strong and always a factor, and he has the ability to reset to neutral well.

He has damaging combos at low percents and mid percents, and banana/dtilt death combos beyond that--he has the ability to be in a controlling situation throughout an entire stock, and he has the neutral to get him these conversions.

I agree with Trifroze that Sheik could possibly be the best character, but more than likely it is Diddy (edit: this game has come full circle lol), especially when he has been getting the results he's been getting when ZeRo has been going to no tournaments and really no other top top players are maining him right now (although Zinoto is making a pretty strong case).

I'd say 93 weight falls in the midweight category

Corrected on fastfall speed, I think that it feels like he's not a fastfaller because he doesn't have the weird humanoid frame/physics of Bayo/ZSS/Sheik that gets them true combo'd a lot.

 

[Das Koopa]

Umeki beat's one of Australia's best, 3-1 (2-0 over Ghost's Bayo, 1-1 over his Meta Knight)

 

[Y2Kay]

Umeki beat's one of Australia's best, 3-1 (2-0 over Ghost's Bayo, 1-1 over his Meta Knight)

you mean our very own @Ghostbone? no need to speak of him like a stranger lol

 

[BananaBake]

Shoutouts to Bowser Jr. for having no presence whatsoever as of late. Now people are putting him into bottom tier on their lists too. Good grief, the kid's on life support. People regularly forget he's even in the game lol

RIP Tweek

 

[Y2Kay]

RIP Tweek

naw fam Tweek has been freed.

Oh yeah Waveguider is going over . Wise choice, if I do say so myself

 

[C0rvus]

RIP Tweek

Tweek reached enlightenment and ascended.

 

[Das Koopa]

you mean our very own @Ghostbone? no need to speak of him like a stranger lol

Oh, it's Ghostbone? :O

Also, Abadango bodybags Waveguider 3-0. Guider used Greninja.

 

[FullMoon]

Honestly I don't think Greninja makes for a very good choice for a secondary lol

 

[sedrf]

http://tloc1k.challonge.com/ TLOC 1K is almost over aerolink vs jayson

 

[Y2Kay]

Honestly I don't think Greninja makes for a very good choice for a secondary lol

I agree, but his greninja was actually pretty good. He was 3-0'd, but he was playing decently close too

 

[TheGlove]

A sheik named Saiki 3:1's fow to get into top 8 at LVLUPEXPO

 

[ARISTOS]

FOW out of the tournament before top 8, losing to Tyrant and Saiki

 

[Das Koopa]

Australia's top 3 plus Jaice all thrown into losers

rip

 

[Y2Kay]

Nevermind, I found out.

 

[TheGlove]

Top 8 for tommorow for LV up Expo
Winners


Nario
VS
Tyrant

Void
VS
Larry Lur And probably

Losers


Saiki
VS
K9 maybe


Falln(Falln forfeited so Im not sure if this is a pass for Scatt or if the 9th place guy gets in)
VS
Scatt

 

[Jehtt]

Falln forfeited? How come?

 

[Mario766]

Falln forfeited? How come?

I'm pretty sure it has to do with him leaving with his carpool.

 

[thehard]

He had a carpool waiting for him, expected the tournament to be 1 day as he was told. It was announced around top 32 that the format was changing to 2 days.

 

[Gunla]

Honestly I don't think Greninja makes for a very good choice for a secondary lol

A few of the more notable players that secondary Greninja (from what I recall) are MegaFox and Waveguider. Both have pretty decent Greninjas.

That being said, Greninja honestly doesn't work well for a secondary in my opinion. Greninja requires a pretty large dedication of time to learn all the ins and outs of, and having him as a secondary diminishes the time you're dedicating to him, and honestly can leave you with just an okay ninja frog. The same could be said for co-maining, but I think Elexiao has done a decent job with Pac/Gren, for example. Co-main could assume you're putting in more of a ~50/50 timeslot for the characters compared to something like 70/30 in terms of percents, and I do think that it makes a difference.

 

[Big-Cat]

Now see, if any opponent (and I mean any) can get under Bayonetta near the ceiling during her cmobos, they NEED to use U-Air. Rising combos are Bayonetta's best combos, but if the opponent manages to get under her (directly or close enough), a powerful enough U-Air will kill her depending on the damage, of course. Or unless you're Corrin, who can just Down B.

Just a little thought.

Except the SDI makes it where you are above and outside of Bayonetta's reach. You're not going to be able to UAir her.

 

[juddy96]

Some quick results

TLOC 1K (136 entrants)

1) Cosmos
2) AeroLink
3) JaySon
4) Johan
5) Awestin
5) Karna
7) Sethlon
7) BC

Deluge (117 entrants)

1) Zinoto
2) Tyroy
3) NiTe
4) Ned
5) JJROCKETS
5) Ksev
7) MVD
7) Demitus

Gwinnett Brawl (115 entrants)

1) TheReflexWonder ?
2) Fatality
3) Lord Mix
4) Copycat
5) Gadiel
5) Limbs
7) Loco
7) OrcaTheHuman

GoTE 4 The Kids 2016 (94 entrants)

1) Prince Ramen
2) 8BitMan
3) JaK
4) Prodigy
5) Degree of Fear
5) Cashmere
7) Purple Guy
7) Riot

Full results https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qGEcRKliQNDWt4nn_e2H_mPf5OTBH_8LXLWqqZhT8co/edit?usp=sharing

 

[zeldasmash]

Roy, Brawler, Bowser, Palutena & Zelda making a splash. Nice result for Robin too.

 

[C0rvus]

Great job, @Mr. Johan ! That's a really impressive result. Any big wins? Might have to peep those vods. Always cool to see some less egotistical known Robins get some results.

 

[Gunla]

juddy96
Demitus played Falcon, might have played Mewtwo as well

 

[Das Koopa]

demitus is a falcon main, he's dropped MK as far as I know

 

[Mario766]

Demitus played Mewtwo on stream pretty far into the tournament.

 

[juddy96]

Great job, @Mr. Johan ! That's a really impressive result. Any big wins? Might have to peep those vods. Always cool to see some less egotistical known Robins get some results.

His Top 24 bracket run was RunCT (W), Awestin (L), Jerm (W), Hakii (W), P2P With Gibus (W), BC (W), Karna (W), AeroLink (L)