4BR Smash for Wii U Tier List v2.0

Many fighting game communities will often make a tier list for their game, often as a reference for discussion of tournament viability. Smash is certainly no exception, with tier lists for all Smash games, and with Back Rooms often being the main body that organizes and crafts them with the help of correspondents and members.

The first Super Smash Bros. for 3DS and Wii U tier list was released in Spring 2016, for Patch 1.1.3. It's been nearly half a year, and the meta has seen shocking shifts in its rulesets, character viability and more thanks to 3 new patches and 2 new characters.

As a disclaimer, the 4BR acknowledges that tier lists aren't always accurate and are often controversial. However, we do want to study the game and give a take on the current meta, adding yet another important snapshot to the history of the game.

The community has been vigilant for this game since the very beginning, with 2016 being a fantastic year thus far for Smash. From competitors and dataminers to content creators and tournament organizers, it's been quite the ride. And with the future for Smash 4 getting bigger and brighter, it's only natural to say that the meta will constantly evolve as time goes on. With that out of the way, we'd like to introduce you to the second official tier list for Super Smash Bros. for Wii U.

Procedure

Starting in early June 2016 (after Smash 'N' Splash 2), we asked 4BR members to distribute all the characters in the game (with the exception of Mii Fighters due to a lack of consistency regarding their legality) across tiers; players could have as many tiers as they want, and even order characters within their tiers. Players had to assume that this was under Version 1.1.6 of the game and that customs were off. In addition, players were allowed to place Miis (either under their 1111 loadout, or an XXXX loadout) if they so desired for an addendum. At this time, the 4BR does not have an official stance or recommendation on ruleset matters, including Mii Fighters. As with the previous vote, we also reached out to correspondents from outside the 4BR to help with this project and added a handful of applicants to the 4BR to help partake in this project.

For example, here is my vote, which was ordered within tiers:

Spoiler: Example Vote

We decided to run voting until August 8th, the week of Super Smash Con, to allow for more thoughts about July's tournaments to run in, especially EVO 2016. Eventually, we ended up with a total of 56 votes, with 31 US voters and 25 international voters.

The following people submitted a vote:

Spoiler: List of Voters

@---
@-6WX-
@~Pink Fresh~
@AeroLink_the_SoulMaster
@Alphicans
@Ambrose
@Camalange
@Catana
@CHOMPY
@CYVE
@Dabuz
@earth_tyt
@EcneBanjo
@Espy Rose
@Fox Is Openly Deceptive
@FullMoon
@Ghostbone
@istudying
@JJROCKETS
@John12346
@kameme8808 (Kamemushi)
@KENisbg (KEN)
Gunla
@Luco
@M@v
@Marc
@Marcbri
@Meru.
@Mr E
@Mr-R
@Myran
@NickRiddle
@Player-1
@Pugwest
@qb9b (9B)
@Ray_Kalm
@Raziek
#HBC | Red Ryu
@Remzi
@RichBrown
@rintarosu10 (RIN)
@san.
@Slice~ (Beefy Smash Doods)
@Seagull Joe
@Shaya
@SS_and_TH (Komorikiri)
@SSB_Ned (Ned)
@SShane (SS)
@Thinkaman
@Trela
@Tweek
@UltimateRazer (GrimTurtle)
@vyQ (Beefy Smash Doods)
@Xiivi
@Zan-
@Zigsta

As with the previous tier list, we will not be publicly releasing individual votes; however, all voters are free to share their votes with the public.

Results

Thanks to @Locuan (vote formatting) and @Shaya (processing), we were able to generate the average placements and groupings (tiers) of the cast. Furthermore, we have included standard deviations for both of these results and the weighted group score, which considered characters per group and the placement differences between v2.0 and v1.0 (with Marth and Mewtwo having the biggest jumps, both in the positive direction).

Spoiler: Voting Data

Character | Ordered Average | Standard Deviation (Order) | Grouped Average | Standard Deviation (Group) | Weighted Group | Difference from v1.0
Diddy Kong | 1.32 | 1.501 | 9.88 | 0.391 | 9.95 | +8
Cloud | 2.18 | 2.18 | 9.84 | 0.418 | 9.91 | +10
Sheik | 2.66 | 2.734 | 9.65 | 0.7 | 9.82 | -2
Rosalina | 3.39 | 2.085 | 9.66 | 0.634 | 9.85 | -1
Mario | 4.88 | 2.443 | 9.33 | 0.786 | 9.62 | +3
Sonic | 5.39 | 2.756 | 9.29 | 0.733 | 9.61 | ±0
Fox | 5.88 | 2.376 | 9.15 | 0.776 | 9.56 | ±0
Zero Suit Samus | 7.09 | 2.182 | 8.83 | 0.782 | 9.28 | -6
Ryu | 8.41 | 4.165 | 8.68 | 0.874 | 9.14 | -5
Mewtwo | 8.46 | 3.07 | 8.72 | 0.73 | 9.21 | +27
Bayonetta | 8.93 | 3.914 | 8.74 | 0.885 | 9.14 | New
Pikachu | 13.88 | 3.274 | 7.67 | 0.9 | 8.26 | -7
Meta Knight | 14.54 | 5.931 | 7.62 | 1.092 | 8.17 | -4
Villager | 15.07 | 4.358 | 7.51 | 0.806 | 8.08 | -3
Mega Man | 15.93 | 5.837 | 7.4 | 0.937 | 7.95 | +13
Ness | 16.39 | 4.916 | 7.41 | 1.068 | 8 | -3
Toon Link | 16.64 | 3.739 | 7.23 | 0.836 | 7.82 | +5
Corrin | 17.85 | 6.337 | 7.15 | 1.107 | 7.66 | New
Marth | 19.36 | 6.852 | 7.01 | 1.063 | 7.47 | +23
Captain Falcon | 20.95 | 4.615 | 6.72 | 0.922 | 7.26 | -6
Greninja | 21.11 | 5.731 | 6.8 | 1.052 | 7.32 | +4
Lucario | 21.52 | 5.405 | 6.63 | 0.968 | 7.14 | +1
Yoshi | 23.64 | 5.201 | 6.42 | 0.984 | 6.9 | -8
Pit | 23.73 | 6.264 | 6.39 | 1.115 | 6.83 | -6
Donkey Kong | 24.41 | 4.854 | 6.27 | 0.98 | 6.68 | +2
Peach | 24.52 | 5.898 | 6.2 | 1.079 | 6.64 | -7
Dark Pit | 24.89 | 5.888 | 6.27 | 1.044 | 6.68 | -10
R.O.B. | 25.64 | 5.393 | 6.08 | 1.17 | 6.51 | -8
Luigi | 27.34 | 6.583 | 5.95 | 1.126 | 6.26 | -13
Olimar | 30.93 | 7.914 | 5.62 | 1.338 | 5.94 | -6
Robin | 30.98 | 6.396 | 5.42 | 0.931 | 5.61 | ±0
Bowser | 31.55 | 5.812 | 5.23 | 1.018 | 5.4 | -2
Lucas | 32.18 | 7.071 | 5.17 | 1.149 | 5.34 | +3
Wario | 32.61 | 4.471 | 5.26 | 0.943 | 5.43 | -13
Ike | 32.68 | 5.711 | 5.06 | 1.03 | 5.08 | -7
Lucina | 34.52 | 7.746 | 4.95 | 1.178 | 5.08 | +13
Mr. Game & Watch | 37.8 | 6.637 | 4.38 | 1.337 | 4.33 | +1
Pac-Man | 38.73 | 6.016 | 4.34 | 1.097 | 4.18 | -6
Little Mac | 38.8 | 6.891 | 4.21 | 1.149 | 4.01 | +7
Palutena | 38.91 | 5.881 | 4.11 | 1.156 | 3.94 | +12
Kirby | 39.27 | 6.413 | 4.23 | 1.166 | 4.06 | -5
Duck Hunt | 40 | 7.697 | 4.21 | 1.303 | 4.05 | +3
Link | 40.64 | 8.186 | 4.09 | 1.338 | 3.94 | +1
Shulk | 41.77 | 6.753 | 3.86 | 1.267 | 3.6 | -2
Samus | 42.66 | 6.459 | 3.71 | 1.186 | 3.49 | +8
Bowser Jr. | 43.18 | 5.907 | 3.61 | 1.138 | 3.33 | -10
Wii Fit Trainer | 43.18 | 5.465 | 3.65 | 1.043 | 3.35 | -5
Dr. Mario | 45.16 | 4.554 | 3.47 | 1.051 | 3.11 | -1
Falco | 45.75 | 4.141 | 3.25 | 1.036 | 2.86 | -9
Roy | 46.02 | 5.323 | 3.38 | 1.191 | 3.08 | -15
Charizard | 48.27 | 3.763 | 2.82 | 1.077 | 2.48 | ±0
King Dedede | 49.02 | 4.06 | 2.7 | 1.146 | 2.32 | -6
Mii Gunner | 51.26 | 6.322 | 2.28 | 1.124 | 1.7 | +2
Mii Brawler | 51.89 | 6.696 | 2.26 | 1.316 | 1.76 | -3
Zelda | 52.07 | 2.235 | 1.92 | 0.616 | 1.49 | +3
Ganondorf | 52.66 | 2.254 | 1.9 | 0.651 | 1.47 | ±0
Mii Swordfighter | 53.85 | 3.951 | 2.04 | 0.947 | 1.53 | -2
Jigglypuff | 53.98 | 1.433 | 1.72 | 0.604 | 1.35 | -1

A standard deviation of (close to) 0 means that voters generally placed the character close to the average (mean), while a higher standard deviation shows that the character had a diverse range of placements. As expected, the further down the tier list one goes from the top, the larger the deviations tends to be. While the top and bottom tiers have lower standard deviation results, the middle and lower tiers were highly opinionated.

For the first time, our procedure for the Tier List asked voters for two things concurrently - tiers or groups of characters (similar to Wii U v1.0) and the orders for characters within them (overall 1-58, similar to many other past BR lists). The resulting lists were not completely congruent, with several small position swaps (orders were still maintained in the release). However, this gave us the means to decide our tier separations, reflecting how closely our voters put characters together in contrast to the volatility of ordered placements.

The Top/High/Mid/Low/Bottom divides were decided by the group score's range (9.88 - 1.72) split equally into five. The tiers primarily express point gaps of 10-9, 9-8, etc., with two exceptions. We merged the bottom tiers (2.82 - 1.72; 1.10 range), and to coincide with the high tier's split (8.25 - 6.62), we bumped up Captain Falcon, Greninja & Lucario, creating two tiers.

As such, we would like to present you with the...

Official 4BR Smash for Wii U Tier List v2.0 (Wii U Version 1.1.6)

--------------------TOP--------------------
S:
A:
-------------------HIGH--------------------
B:
C:
--------------------MID---------------------
D:
E:
--------------------LOW-------------------
F:
G:
------------------BOTTOM----------------
H:

Text Version

--------------------TOP--------------------
S: Diddy Kong, Cloud, Sheik, Rosalina, Mario, Sonic, Fox
A: Zero Suit Samus, Ryu, Mewtwo, Bayonetta
-------------------HIGH--------------------
B: Pikachu, Meta Knight, Villager, Mega Man, Ness
C: Toon Link, Corrin, Marth, Captain Falcon, Greninja, Lucario
--------------------MID---------------------
D: Yoshi, Pit, Donkey Kong, Peach, Dark Pit, R.O.B., Luigi
E: Olimar, Robin, Bowser, Lucas, Wario, Ike, Lucina
--------------------LOW-------------------
F: Mr. Game & Watch, Pac-Man, Little Mac, Palutena, Kirby, Duck Hunt, Link
G: Shulk, Samus, Wii Fit Trainer, Bowser Jr., Dr. Mario, Falco, Roy
------------------BOTTOM----------------
H: Charizard, King Dedede, Zelda, Ganondorf, Jigglypuff

Graphic Version

Smashboards Tier List Maker Version:

Addendum for Mii Fighters:

Of the votes we collected, 27 of them had Mii Fighters. While we were not able to accrue enough data for XXXX Miis, we did find results with 1111 Miis, which placed them into the bottom tier as follows:

H:

Conclusions

With the Summer of Smash coming to a close, there have been many unique advancements in the Smash 4 metagame that will be reflected within this tier list. Ever since the first tier list was released, Bayonetta took the world by storm; two of the top tiers in the last list received big changes, knocking them down a tad; everyone picked up Cloud; and Mega Man became a big threat. Other characters became relevant thanks to buffs, such as Marth and Mewtwo. Even though future patches are unlikely, it's safe to assume that the tier list will evolve quite fruitfully, as seen with previous Smash games.

What do you think of the tier list? Do you agree with the placements, or would you place certain characters differently? Let us know what your thoughts and questions are and we will try to address the most common ones in a followup article, which will include statements from various members of the 4BR.

Special thanks goes to Shaya and Locuan for their help with processing the votes and results; Camalange, Shaya, @Marc, Vayseth and Events2Compete (Joe Fattal) for assisting with the collection of outside votes; and shrooby for creating the tier list image. Lastly, I'd like to give a special thank you to all the voters for their time and input into crafting this tier list. I was proud to take the mantle for the second tier list and receive help from so many people.

 

Ayyeee & hopefully we DONT Get Another patch because this i sperfectly fine & perfectly Balanced

 

I honestly am very happy with this tier list. I agree with everything except maybe Cloud.

I can see him dropping a bit (not by alot) at some point but fantastic job!

 

Nothing sticks out as bad or odd at the moment, but can't wait to see the more accurate reasons for some people.

 

Solid af. ROB above Luigi is bonkers tho

 

Fantastic list. Most of the placings make perfect sense.

 

Solid af. ROB above Luigi is bonkers tho

ROB's throw combos are more reliable, he has better traction and better projectiles.

 

A very good tier list imo. I personally don't have any arguments against it but I can't wait to see more interesting changes once the meta keeps moving on.

 

Move Mewtwo up one spot and we good

 

How is Lucas still this low? Have they not seen Taiheita's big results recently, especially compared to Ness's relatively low results? Maybe the results were too recent to change the tier list, but he still definitely deserves at least upper D to lower C tier.

Marth, Olimar, and Link could also move up, and Ness and Pikachu could move down, but hey, at least this list isn't as cringeworthy as the last one!

 

LOL Toon Link is 17th.

This is funny to me since Young Link was 17th on Melee's tier list for nearly 2 years, and Toon Link was 17th on Brawl's tier list for nearly 3 years.

Kind of amazed that Young/Toon Link were always in the 13-21 range on tier lists.

 

Not seeing how is worse than despite him getting way more consistent results and having the better matchup spread. Just me though.

Very good list overall, can't complain about most of the placings.

 

this tier list -_-

 

Ok it was funny the first time but cmon

They're STILL in the trenches

 

Is this a complete list of the 4BR?

 

Pretty solid tier list all things considered. Though I have 4 nitpicks:
1. I think that Cloud is at least top 10 or is borderline top 5. Cloud is an incredible character no doubt, he has a lot of potential that I don't think has been unlocked, he has solid results, decent matchup spread, and he's pretty easy to play yet is very rewarding. However, putting him at number 2... I can't help but disagree a bit, especially when a solo Cloud hasn't won a major yet (he has done decently yes, but he still hasn't won one).
2. I feel like Zero Suit Samus should be higher. I know she doesn't have as strong of results as Sheik, but I feel like her nerfs weren't that bad and she's still pretty good.
3. Something about putting Pit 2 characters above Dark Pit is odd to me. I feel like their differences are mostly minimal and should be right next to each other.
EDIT:
4. I think Pikachu is way too high. He's a good character, but speaking from my experiences with Pikachu and looking at his results, he's very inconsistent to play and hasn't been placing well recently. Pikachu only has ESAM carrying him and he hasn't been doing well in recent memory.

 

even ZeRo disagrees

 

A majority of this list is pretty solid.

Though I don't agree with
>
>
>

Also seems oddly low considering Tai's results with him recently, but eh.

 

Shulk being put bottom 15 makes me :/ especially with some nice Shulk placements recently

Has the 6th highest standard deviation at least though

 

Ok it was funny the first time but cmon

They're STILL in the trenches

A decade of decadence, pains and sorrows for Jigglypuff, Zelda and Ganondorf mains.

Which is funny, since Zelda is arguably Melee's worst character (and yet in Brawl she received nerfs), and Ganondorf in Melee for the longest time was one of the most overrated characters (basically, Ganondorf is Captain Falcon's Roy).

 

ROB's throw combos are more reliable, he has better traction and better projectiles.

Huh? Luigi's throw combos are definitely still stronger than ROB's. ROB just gets a 50/50 which people panic airdodge much too often. Luigi can still get insane damage off a down throw combo and has the amazing frame data all plumbers do, seeing him below ROB was definitely odd.

 

A majority of this list is pretty solid.

Though I don't agree with
>
>
>

Also seems oddly low considering Tai's results with him recently, but eh.

Maybe Lucas's results were a bit too recent.

 

>List of Voters

CTRL+F, Ally not found

So THAT'S why Mario is top 5

>_>

 

I know that Lucina lacks the results, but I see no reason why she should be 2 tiers below Marth. Did they both not get virtually the same buffs? But I guess being a worse version of Marth, she is going to have little in representation.

I also feel that Roy is better than that, but he also has very little rep; can't think of anyone noteworthy aside from Ryo, and he uses Corrin and Ike more.

 

Of course there'll be changes in the future, but when even low tier has a couple of characters that can be legitimate threats in high level tournaments you can't but commend the balance of the game.

 

I disagree with Little Mac being in low tier if only because he mollywhops everyone else in low tier.

Gonna be weird making low tier events. :V

 

I think the biggest problem with this tier list is how insanely fast the meta develops.

There's been what? 6-8 months between this tier list and the last one?

The meta every month seems to evolve and change almost completely every 2 months, so the adaptation of that in a new tier list is going to be very hard to nail.

Because of that, I ask everyone PLEASEEEEEEEEEE go easy on the Smash 4 Back Room tier list makers (note: I am not associated with them in any way).

Having said that, I still think they did a pretty good job, although obvious I disagree with various things (as most of us likely do). Let's just not let those disagreements make things get hostile please and thank you!

 

Solid af. ROB above Luigi is bonkers tho

Exactly Luigi IMO should be under pit of Dark Pit

 

I also feel that Roy is better than that, but he also has very little rep; can't think of anyone noteworthy aside from Ryo, and he uses Corrin and Ike more.

Sethlon?

 

Sheik below #1 and Cloud above Rosalina, Fox, Sonic, and Mario confuses me.

 

Woo, let's see that!

 

Sethlon?

I said noteworthy players. Sethlon hasn't done anything noteworthy with Roy in Smash4.

 

I know that Lucina lacks the results, but I see no reason why she should be 2 tiers below Marth. Did they both not get virtually the same buffs? But I guess being a worse version of Marth, she is going to have little in representation.

This isn't a Pit/Dark Pit situation. Tipper makes the difference. Also more people probably play Marth than Lucina, ergo we have more data for Marth.

 

It's so sad that they don't take into account the Miis. I'm sure they would be on an important place on this list if they were available (any size and move)

 

This isn't a Pit/Dark Pit situation. Tipper makes the difference. Also more people probably play Marth than Lucina, ergo we have more data for Marth.

Yep, that's what I was implying and I agree; more Marth than Lucina being played, and when Marth is clearly better then what would the point be of choosing Lucina? And I also concede that tipper > no tipper. Though the constant damage throughout her sword gives Lucina her own things like N-air (hit1) > F-smash. She's relatively unexplored, personally though I feel she shouldn't be that far behind.

 

It's so sad that they don't take into account the Miis. I'm sure they would be on an important place on this list if they were available (any size and move)

They did.

"Addendum for Mii Fighters:

Of the votes we collected, 27 of them had Mii Fighters. While we were not able to accrue enough data for XXXX Miis, we did find results with 1111 Miis, which placed them into the bottom tier as follows:

H: "

 

Mediocre, but better list than before.
Ryu above Mewtwo & Bayonetta is still something i'd call senseless, especially when a tier list is supposed to reflect the current trends, and as highly as you make think of Ryu, putting him above such confirmed threats as Mewtwo & Bayonetta is arguably bad when the character never ceases to dissapoint, has poorer matchups than any " top tier " and has arguably a much worse neutral than all top tiers, i know the character has very strong points but still.
Wii Fit has been dropping lately due to mediocre results, but she's still a fairly efficient & respctable evasive zoner that has proven to be a threat, moreso than every character up to Link, which is an arguable case given the rise of T lately, i still think Wii Fit's better tho.
What is Pit exactly doing this low? The misconception that Pit is carried by Earth is indeed wrong, even before Kuro's surprising 9th place at Umebura yesterday: Paseriman & said Kuro were already placing decently, as well as PlasticPoptart, it's more of a case of dominance above the rest of other decently good players. The character has proven to be able to beat most characters, even tho it may not be easy, which is certainly not the case of Yoshi, or lately Ness.
Doc's placement is... okay. There's probably a large deviation between votes, i've noticed the character was generally thought as better if you put time into him a bit. He'd be where Kirby is, since he's an efficient CP Character akin to Kirby, that does well enough against most characters that don't dominate him in neutral: much like Kirby, he isn't & shouldn't be a solo main pick.
The rest of the list is alright, i have a few points i disagree with ( Falcon & ROB are too high, the whole top tier feels " stationnary " on thoughts that are old & there may be a slight refusal to accept that the rising threats shouldn't be the worst top tiers anymore, while others like ZSS dropped a bit over time ), but otherwise, it's okay, i guess?

 

Shulk being put bottom 15 makes me :/ especially with some nice Shulk placements recently

Has the 6th highest standard deviation at least though

You could always be Charizard and be placed bottom 5

 

People are overrating the hell out of Cloud. He is top tier but not #2. He's way too inconsistent results wise and still has his weaknesses to be considered there.

 

Everybody sleeping on . As soon as the edge guard meta evolves she's going to sky rocket to mid tier.