3.6 Mewtwo Matchup Thread: Where's My Tail Edition

[DMG]

Mewtwo fares a bit better against Falcon Uair than Peach, because if you SDI and DI more upwards, many times this allows you to Upb and escape. Denthorn is pretty familiar with the %'s, when Falcon prefers to have running momentum for his combos, etc from playing as Falcon back in the day so he takes the anti-combo game pretty far. I dunno if he has videos specifically in the MU though, most of the results for him beating Falcon's were off-stream like at LTC2 and vs me at BR last weekend. Only thing recorded was probably him vs Dakpo that weekend, can check it out if you still want.


Teleport Nair probably isn't a good idea (anymore?), but there are some Nair spacings and timings in neutral that are weird to adjust to. He caught me off guard a couple of times with different Nair usage, and the angle it sets up for is filthy lol. The main thing though was that he played Neutral patiently enough. WD back is pretty good, even better if you get the mini angle that's almost 100% horizontal. Speedwise, I have to almost already be on top of you to punish that maneuver and if I am off on timing or spacing, your own tilts or grab or x choice will slaughter approaches after the WD, if I did not apply them superbly. Even if I corner Mewtwo in Space, it's not like he can't comfortably get to the edge or further maneuver from the edge, so the risk of backing up "too far" I guess doesn't feel like too much of an issue and lets him play DD/WD/Neutral spacing on par with many others.


I haven't been using Falcon for this MU in awhile, was using Marth and Fox back in 3.02. I'd probably trust Denthorn's opinion of the MU, @Denthorn maybe this is his SWF account??

 

[xXDarkRisingXx]

For the purpose of stirring up some discussion in this thread:
Invalidated by Mewtwo:
N/A

Lose Badly to Mewtwo:


Lose Moderately to Mewtwo:


Lose Slightly to Mewtwo:


Roughly even:


Beat Mewtwo Slightly:


Beat Mewtwo Moderately:

Crushes Mewtwo:
N/A

Invalidates Mewtwo:
Kappa

Don't really know yet:
(Even?) (Slight + for M2?) (Slight +?) (Slight +?) (Slight -?)

Opinions? Agree/Disagree? I'm still a bit shaky on some like Fox, Marth, and Yoshi but unlike the 5 in the last category I have some actual experience vs them. Some positions could still fluctuate though i.e may move Fox to "Beat Mewtwo Slightly

For the purpose of stirring up some discussion in this thread:
Invalidated by Mewtwo:
N/A

Lose Badly to Mewtwo:


Lose Moderately to Mewtwo:


Lose Slightly to Mewtwo:


Roughly even:


Beat Mewtwo Slightly:


Beat Mewtwo Moderately:

Crushes Mewtwo:
N/A

Invalidates Mewtwo:
Kappa

Don't really know yet:
(Even?) (Slight + for M2?) (Slight +?) (Slight +?) (Slight -?)

Opinions? Agree/Disagree? I'm still a bit shaky on some like Fox, Marth, and Yoshi but unlike the 5 in the last category I have some actual experience vs them. Some positions could still fluctuate though i.e may move Fox to "Beat Mewtwo Slightly"

hey can you run me down the m2 vs TLink matchup? I'm just curious to know why it's a disadvantage.

 

[xXDarkRisingXx]

I think it'll be a good idea to put up videos of of different Mewtwo matchups.

 

[MewtwosDad]

Does anybody have any tips for the Fox matchup? This is pretty much the only matchup I've been having trouble with, I think it comes down to me being bad at edgeguarding him because I haven't been having problems with other gimpable characters besides the occasional Falcon.

 

[xXDarkRisingXx]

Can anyone breakdown the Mewtwo toon link match up?

 

[Plebiscuit]

Can anyone breakdown the Mewtwo toon link match up?

I wish someone would, I've been having trouble against Tink too. I usually just switch to Marth for games 2 & 3, but that's not much of a solution.

 

[~Frozen~]

It likely is a good solution, as Toon Link is probably Mewtwo's hardest counter. I'd say its like 35-65 or so.

Having a big hurtbox + slow dash speed makes Mewtwo bait for Toon Link's bomb game, which on a confirm will set up into both low % combos and kills alike. He also has one of quickest SH nairs (hits frame 7 when considering jumpsquat) to dissuade Mewtwo from trying a teleport approach, and his UpB and Dair are very powerful kill options with Dair's vertical trajectory meaning Mewtwo will die especially early. Toon Link's added mobility means unlike other projectile-heavy characters, he'll zoom around the stage pelting you from every which way (oh, and he has a sword too to make your somewhat disjointed tail not as relevant) He's not as combo fodder as Link or as easy to juggle/KO as Zelda, so stocks will likely take longer too.

So, I've decided to go through with this miserable MU anyway. How would I go about abusing Tink's weak spots?

So, a lot of Toon Link's play revolves around his bombs, which, gladly, take ~40 frames to pull out. This should give you some ample time to approach or corner him on a more flat stage (Toon Link prefers tri-platform stages, I would recommend not going to these vs him). However, a good Tink will likely not pull bombs without the proper opportunity vs a Mewtwo due to the risk of a Teleport approach, so expect to see more Boomerang, Nair, Zair etc until he can swat you away long enough to safely pull a Bomb out. Confusion can be useful sometimes, but Toon Link can punish it often if the bomb doesn't end up hitting him. Shadow Ball isn't too great here, Toon Link's Hylian Shield can block it easily and Boomerang's beginning frames can simply go through the weaker ones and clank with the fully charged variant.

When he's recovering, he'll likely pull a bomb during his DJ to be able to bomb jump. Most characters can't go super deep to punish this, but this scenario is exactly where Mewtwo shines. Don't be afraid, go deep and Bair him to the Shadow Realm. Even a Nair that far out would ruin his recovery. Essentially, you want to stay on Toon Link as often as you can and not give him opportunities to ruin your life with hitconfirming Bombs. This is much easier said than done though, and honestly I would recommend a CP for this character if you have to fight a solid one.

Stages I'd recommend taking Tink to:
GHZ
SV
FD
YI:B
PS2

Stages you want to avoid:
YS
BF
DL64
FoD
Norfair

Basically, you want more flat stages and Toon Link wants stages where he can retreat to platforms.

 

[xXDarkRisingXx]

Does anybody have any tips for the Fox matchup? This is pretty much the only matchup I've been having trouble with, I think it comes down to me being bad at edgeguarding him because I haven't been having problems with other gimpable characters besides the occasional Falcon.

for starters your edge guarding has to be on point. you want to make sure that every time you throw fox off stage. they will not come back. teleport ledge snap, Bair reads on foxes side B. going deep with bair also works too but don't get too predictable with it. down smash on Firefox while he trys to reach the ledge from underneath is also a good option. but regarding on stage you will lose in neutral. the best you can really do is try position yourself don't ever stop moving. but once Mewtwo grabs Fox, you have the advantage cuz now you can 0 to death him (if you were on FD or Smashville) practice Spacey combos. something I like doing is up throw, FAIR, regrad up throw, reader di confusion regrad again and up throw. then go for the edge guard. final destination is probably the best stage you want to take Fox. like I said earlier don't stop moving cuz then you're just asking you to get shine pressured. while you're being shield pressured by a good Fox all you can really do is just roll away. hover upair can stop some of his aerial approaches if you space it. don't give fox stages with low ceilings. that's pretty much how I handle Fox. somebody else can probably give you better information but all I can really tell you is practice your up throw combos and edge guarding

 

[Garr]

Does anybody have any tips for the Fox matchup? This is pretty much the only matchup I've been having trouble with, I think it comes down to me being bad at edgeguarding him because I haven't been having problems with other gimpable characters besides the occasional Falcon.

- control center stage and bait out an approach. 1 grab is all you need to go to town on Fox.
- practice your 0-death combos. It's only a 50-50 MU if you know how to optimize your punishes.
- learn how to tech chase and tech trap. These will guarantee missed techs that you can heavily capitalize on.
- learn how to SDI to avoid getting killed off the top with Uair
- pick stages with a high ceiling and preferably no platforms. Mewtwo wins the MU on FD, for example.

 

[WhiteCrow]

What are your thoughts on the Mewtwo v Zelda matchup? It's still easy to clip his tail hurtboxes with kicks but I have a hard time in neutral against Mewtwo's. I feel like Zelda is the perfect combo weight for bairs and tilts, and Mewtwo has some crazy kill potential in walls of pain, teleport>shadow claw, and the dreaded up throw.

Your up throw KO's us at 80% on Warioware, even less if you're on a platform. Yoshi's Story feels more even. I don't know how y'all feel about Yoshi's Island but I think it is Zelda's worst stage. Take her there if we don't ban it.

 

[InfinityCollision]

YIB isn't a great stage for Mewtwo. It's okay, but only okay. How do you feel about Norfair for Zelda? I feel like that might be my first choice, it's a favorable stage for Mewtwo and I get the impression it's not great for Zelda.

I agree that Mewtwo-Zelda favors Mewtwo. We can circumvent a lot of your tricks without much issue, you're very comboable and die early off the top, we tend to live decently long against you.

 

[~Frozen~]

Yea YI:B isn't great, the sloped edges disallow autocancel teleports from the ledge and the ceiling is only average in height. Pretty meh overall.

Mewtwo handles Zelda very well. He kills her at obnoxiously early percents due to her fall speed (though WW Uthrow % is actually ~90 pre-throw with DI, YS, the smallest, is about 85), and Mewtwo's long range and Teleport to move through Dins without much of an issue means Zelda has a very difficult time actually keeping him out.

Zelda's Utilt is your best friend when trying to read a Teleport, it comes out very quick, kills Mewtwo early since he's similarly very floaty, and doesn't have as much endlag as say, Usmash. Other than that? Well, his tail is prone to being kicked I guess, but it just really is uphill for her. Probably like 65-35 M2 Favor. Against a high-level Mewtwo, I'd recommend looking into a CP. Fortunately Sheilda is quite helpful here as Sheik fares much better vs him.

 

[WhiteCrow]

YIB isn't a great stage for Mewtwo. It's okay, but only okay. How do you feel about Norfair for Zelda? I feel like that might be my first choice, it's a favorable stage for Mewtwo and I get the impression it's not great for Zelda.

I agree that Mewtwo-Zelda favors Mewtwo. We can circumvent a lot of your tricks without much issue, you're very comboable and die early off the top, we tend to live decently long against you.

Norfair is less than ideal for Zelda. The platforms are an awkward height for her double jump and teleport and she can't teleport through the platforms when they are moving. It's an okay stage if I plan on camping out Mewtwo with Din's but he's usually better on it. How is the ceiling on Norfair?

Yea YI:B isn't great, the sloped edges disallow autocancel teleports from the ledge and the ceiling is only average in height. Pretty meh overall.

Mewtwo handles Zelda very well. He kills her at obnoxiously early percents due to her fall speed (though WW Uthrow % is actually ~90 pre-throw with DI, YS, the smallest, is about 85), and Mewtwo's long range and Teleport to move through Dins without much of an issue means Zelda has a very difficult time actually keeping him out.

Zelda's Utilt is your best friend when trying to read a Teleport, it comes out very quick, kills Mewtwo early since he's similarly very floaty, and doesn't have as much endlag as say, Usmash. Other than that? Well, his tail is prone to being kicked I guess, but it just really is uphill for her. Probably like 65-35 M2 Favor. Against a high-level Mewtwo, I'd recommend looking into a CP. Fortunately Sheilda is quite helpful here as Sheik fares much better vs him.

Uphill indeed. I've considered Marth and Ike for the CP since there aren't a lot of stages that favor Zelda over Mewtwo. I'm not a fan of Shiek so my shielda is nonexistent. Thanks for the advice though.

 

[blu2grut]

YI:B lets you tele hover horizontally tho so I consider it an alright stage for mewtwo. Autocancel from ledge is still possible but slower instead because you need to be higher up to land it

 

[InfinityCollision]

Norfair is less than ideal for Zelda. The platforms are an awkward height for her double jump and teleport and she can't teleport through the platforms when they are moving. It's an okay stage if I plan on camping out Mewtwo with Din's but he's usually better on it. How is the ceiling on Norfair?

Ceiling's a bit lower than YIB and the platforms are slightly higher on average (lower height is just above YIB's default height). Platform layout causes no issues for him whatsoever, especially if the Mewtwo player has put in time grinding teleport tech.

Uphill indeed. I've considered Marth and Ike for the CP since there aren't a lot of stages that favor Zelda over Mewtwo. I'm not a fan of Shiek so my shielda is nonexistent. Thanks for the advice though.

Of the three, I would probably recommend Ike.

YI:B lets you tele hover horizontally tho so I consider it an alright stage for mewtwo. Autocancel from ledge is still possible but slower instead because you need to be higher up to land it

Uneven floor and the odd platform make onstage autocancels difficult, limiting burst mobility. Horizontal telehovers are certainly a draw, but it's very position-dependent.

 

[X Riptide X]

Anybody have any tips for the Sonic vs M2 matchup? Shadow balls and Nairs seem to work well for countering his spin dash approaches, but that's really all I can come up with. Hitting him horizontally is also optimal (I think), since Sonic's up B is a purely vertical one. Other than that, I don't really know how to counter Sonic's speed. Many times, I've been hit by his dair, even if it collides with an up smash or up tilt. I try to gimp Sonic, but even a tipper from up air or up tilt seems to lose to his fair. It's a really frustrating matchup for me, and although I've had better luck with spacies, I just feel more comfortable with using the psychic menace

 

[Garr]

Anybody have any tips for the Sonic vs M2 matchup? Shadow balls and Nairs seem to work well for countering his spin dash approaches, but that's really all I can come up with. Hitting him horizontally is also optimal (I think), since Sonic's up B is a purely vertical one. Other than that, I don't really know how to counter Sonic's speed. Many times, I've been hit by his dair, even if it collides with an up smash or up tilt. I try to gimp Sonic, but even a tipper from up air or up tilt seems to lose to his fair. It's a really frustrating matchup for me, and although I've had better luck with spacies, I just feel more comfortable with using the psychic menace

Watch this set of me versus a Sonic player. I wasn't very familiar with the MU, but making a wall seems to work best in this MU.

 

[Kaosxxxx]

http://youtu.be/woNRGpRxKrk

My Mewtwo is back guys. I'll have more videos coming and one against lucky! Our #1 in SoCal currently.

 

[Kaosxxxx]

http://youtu.be/HfGTJ3r8y54
Sorry for quality but this is against Aion used to be socals best sonic (arguably still is) I hope this helps you out a bit Garr

 

[P-Breaker]

I got a hard time beating King DDD, does anyone know what his weaknesses are and how i can punish him. He's also spaming with side special as meat shield for the shadow balls.

 

[Kaosxxxx]

http://youtu.be/5znfLGF4CKs
I had a lot of trouble too but hopefully you can dissect this match and tell me what you think.

 

[Plebiscuit]

http://youtu.be/woNRGpRxKrk

My Mewtwo is back guys. I'll have more videos coming and one against lucky! Our #1 in SoCal currently.

Really solid play, Kaos. Is the match against Lucky up anywhere?

 

[Kaosxxxx]

Really solid play, Kaos. Is the match against Lucky up anywhere?

http://youtu.be/XwJ-ayE-JPQ

 

[P-Breaker]

http://youtu.be/5znfLGF4CKs
I had a lot of trouble too but hopefully you can dissect this match and tell me what you think.

Nice out of teleports and edgeguarding. I hate when DDD edgeguards on the stage it's almost inevitable to get it unless you grab the egde. I saw that a few times. Most of the time mewtwo has to approach, beacause you can't keep the pace with the shadow balls (small). He can use his Waddle Dee's to use them as meat shield. DDD has more range than Mewtwo has so that's also an advantage for DDD.
But you won 2 matches and almost won, despite all your disadvantages that's amazing.

 

[Plebiscuit]

So I was in a tournament earlier today, winners semis, guy I'm against picks Fox and we end up on Dreamland and I kick his head in and then I pick my bans and he asks if I'm staying Mewtwo and then he goes and chooses Sheik. This is where the good stuff ends. In the games that ensue, I proceed to get utterly and completely Shrekt.

I'm a Melee Marth, so I'm no stranger to Sheik being a huge tool. Here's what I already know about fighting Sheik:

1) Don't let her have the ledge. Make her up-b onto the stage or cook up some ramen noodles.

2) Don't get grabbed. Or tilted. Or jabbed. If she hits you with one, it'll likely lead to the other two.

3) Sheik is dumb and should feel dumb because she is.

How is Mewtwo supposed to play the Sheik matchup?

 

[Garr]

So I was in a tournament earlier today, winners semis, guy I'm against picks Fox and we end up on Dreamland and I kick his head in and then I pick my bans and he asks if I'm staying Mewtwo and then he goes and chooses Sheik. This is where the good stuff ends. In the games that ensue, I proceed to get utterly and completely Shrekt.

I'm a Melee Marth, so I'm no stranger to Sheik being a huge tool. Here's what I already know about fighting Sheik:

1) Don't let her have the ledge. Make her up-b onto the stage or cook up some ramen noodles.

2) Don't get grabbed. Or tilted. Or jabbed. If she hits you with one, it'll likely lead to the other two.

3) Sheik is dumb and should feel dumb because she is.

How is Mewtwo supposed to play the Sheik matchup?

Mewtwo arguably goes even with Sheik. She bodies him in neutral, but if your ledge game and edgeguarding game is on point, recovering will be hell for her.

- Don't fall for her D-throw, B-throw mix-up. Just focus on the throw animation and DI accordingly.
- Sheik is actually one of the few characters that can consistently edgeguard Mewtwo, mostly cuz needles.
- It's impossible to break out of Sheik's combos -_-. You're too big and floaty.
- Don't try to approach with teleport too much. Sheik is so lagless and almost all her moves will beat you out. Try doing it only once or twice in a match, as this will catch her by surprise due to you not using teleport at all before.
- Trick Sheik into thinking that you're not covering edge. Edgehog with a teleport, waveland into it. Point is trick her into thinking you're not covering options.
- Mewtwo will always have a bad time in neutral. All I can say is watch out needles and control space with tilts, HC Nairs/Fairs/Bairs, and the occasional shadowball. Your punish game is actually a little better than Sheik's, just less consistent and explored. Lastly, stay grounded. Sheik's aerials have stupid priority and you'll just be a big floating target to her.

 

[SmashJC]

Meh, i can beat easily defeat Mewtwo with King Dedede/Bowser/Sonic, i like smashing Mew2 with DDD :3
Also i did note that sometimes Mewtwo lvl 9 just keeps charging Shadow Ball, meanwhile i'm doing DDD's down taunt :3
Just keep dodging those Shadow Balls, and those powerful smashes, and BLAM! Do DDD's side smash when you have a chance and make Mew2 fly off the stage.

 

[InfinityCollision]

- Don't fall for her D-throw, B-throw mix-up. Just focus on the throw animation and DI accordingly.

It's highly unrealistic to expect to react to Sheik's throw mixups. 16 frames each, similar animations on startup, not going to happen.

Meh, i can beat easily defeat Mewtwo with King Dedede/Bowser/Sonic, i like smashing Mew2 with DDD :3
Also i did note that sometimes Mewtwo lvl 9 just keeps charging Shadow Ball, meanwhile i'm doing DDD's down taunt :3
Just keep dodging those Shadow Balls, and those powerful smashes, and BLAM! Do DDD's side smash when you have a chance and make Mew2 fly off the stage.

None of those are bad matchups unless the Mewtwo player is terrible. D3 and Bowser in particular are notably favorable matchups for Mewtwo.

 

[~Frozen~]

Sheik actually doesn't even need to perform the mixup on Mewtwo at low %'s; she can Boost CG him even if you DI Dthrow "correctly". Guessing wrong on the mixup past like 65% will also confirm into a DACUS kill. Scary stuff.

 

[Garr]

It's highly unrealistic to expect to react to Sheik's throw mixups. 16 frames each, similar animations on startup, not going to happen.


None of those are bad matchups unless the Mewtwo player is terrible. D3 and Bowser in particular are notably favorable matchups for Mewtwo.

Really? 16 frames 0_o? Either I have crazy good reaction time, or I guess correctly 90% of the time.

 

[Garr]

@ ~Frozen~ Any advice on dealing with G&W? I keep getting caught off guard by his Dtilt, up B, and sausages. I've been 3-stocked by one for the second time for not knowing the MU :/

 

[SmashJC]

It's highly unrealistic to expect to react to Sheik's throw mixups. 16 frames each, similar animations on startup, not going to happen.


None of those are bad matchups unless the Mewtwo player is terrible. D3 and Bowser in particular are notably favorable matchups for Mewtwo.

Also i can beat Mew2 lvl9 with Meta Knight, quite hard.

 

[Shockbound]

G&W will CC Mewtwo's D-Tilt and can always respond with his own if he hasn't been knocked down. You will lose the CC D-Tilt war every time unless he is at way too high of a %.

Grab him a lot; grabs aren't CCable and Mewtwo's grab will still reach G&W during his low profile crouch. It will also deal with his Up-B OoS since he doesn't move anywhere at all for the first 9 frames (which includes the 1 mandatory jumpquat frame) and stays within grab range for a good while afterwards too, so if your spacing is decent the worst thing that can happen is that you'll grab-armor through it. Mewtwo's JC grab is a fantastic tool for dealing with any shield-happy G&W.

Well-placed bacon is tough to deal with, but you've got a few options at your disposal to keep yourself from being forced into a bad position because of it. The first thing that comes to my mind would be some kind of teleported aerial approach to get behind him; teleport F-Air in particular can lead to some pretty great followups at many %'s (if it doesn't outright kill him) due to G&W having a pretty difficult time getting back to the ground once he's put directly above his opponent.

Speaking of which, being directly above his opponent makes D-Air pretty much the only option that he can use to keep his opponent at bay. If he's ever put into that position and notices that you're trying to follow him into the air then he'll try to find a way to make you misspace your attack by using his Up-B (he can't airdodge if he has already Up-B'd during that airstate), double jump, bucket stall, or B-reverse bacon. None of these things are of any threat to you if you're on the ground and ready to react to them.

The thing that you need to do when you're in this position is to simply stay on the ground and wait for him to commit to D-Air once you see it. Once the D-Air comes out you can use something like HC Up-Air to hit him through it (G&W's foot extends down the key's handle so its effective disjoint is surprisingly small, Mewtwo's Up-Air should always be able to hit him without trading) or do whatever you want to punish him after he lands.

TL;DR
Rely on D-Tilt less. Punish with grabs more. Be patient and make a conscious effort to punish D-Air when he throws it out.

 

[Garr]

G&W will CC Mewtwo's D-Tilt and can always respond with his own if he hasn't been knocked down. You will lose the CC D-Tilt war every time unless he is at way too high of a %.

Grab him a lot; grabs aren't CCable and Mewtwo's grab will still reach G&W during his low profile crouch. It will also deal with his Up-B OoS since he doesn't move anywhere at all for the first 9 frames (which includes the 1 mandatory jumpquat frame) and stays within grab range for a good while afterwards too, so if your spacing is decent the worst thing that can happen is that you'll grab-armor through it. Mewtwo's JC grab is a fantastic tool for dealing with any shield-happy G&W.

Well-placed bacon is tough to deal with, but you've got a few options at your disposal to keep yourself from being forced into a bad position because of it. The first thing that comes to my mind would be some kind of teleported aerial approach to get behind him; teleport F-Air in particular can lead to some pretty great followups at many %'s (if it doesn't outright kill him) due to G&W having a pretty difficult time getting back to the ground once he's put directly above his opponent.

Speaking of which, being directly above his opponent makes D-Air pretty much the only option that he can use to keep his opponent at bay. If he's ever put into that position and notices that you're trying to follow him into the air then he'll try to find a way to make you misspace your attack by using his Up-B (he can't airdodge if he has already Up-B'd during that airstate), double jump, bucket stall, or B-reverse bacon. None of these things are of any threat to you if you're on the ground and ready to react to them.

The thing that you need to do when you're in this position is to simply stay on the ground and wait for him to commit to D-Air once you see it. Once the D-Air comes out you can use something like HC Up-Air to hit him through it (G&W's foot extends down the key's handle so its effective disjoint is surprisingly small, Mewtwo's Up-Air should always be able to hit him without trading) or do whatever you want to punish him after he lands.

TL;DR
Rely on D-Tilt less. Punish with grabs more. Be patient and make a conscious effort to punish D-Air when he throws it out.

Thanks, bro. Yeah, I was doing significantly better in the MU after I started approaching with grabs more.

 

[InfinityCollision]

Worth noting that only the body grabbox on standing grab reaches low enough for low crouches. Space it normally and you'll whiff completely; given the spacing involved it's probably best to simply not use standing grab in those matchups if you anticipate a possible crouch. Dash grab and pivot grab are fine throughout, though pivot grab can be finicky on Puff sometimes.

 

[Plebiscuit]

It's highly unrealistic to expect to react to Sheik's throw mixups. 16 frames each, similar animations on startup, not going to happen.

Guess whose back throw got reverted to Melee stats in 3.6?

-Before: DMG: 6+2, Angle: 62, KBG: 55, BKB: 70
-After: DMG: 5+2, Angle: 45, KBG: 140, BKB: 40

This obviously won't solve the matchup by any means, but getting grabbed by Sheik is now a little less scary.

 

[Garr]

I'm a bit disappointed about Fair getting nerfed. Juggling with that move will be a little harder now.

 

[InfinityCollision]

I'm more concerned about fair on shield than fair in combos. I'd considered the possibility of fair nerfs in the past, but I'm not sold on this being the right option just yet. Maybe if the change had been more subtle.

 

[Plebiscuit]

What was nerfing fair even supposed to accomplish? Extra lag on Teleport special fall, sure, I don't like it but I understand why they did it. This decision just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Juushichi]

how about you ask Frozen