3.6 Mewtwo Matchup Thread: Where's My Tail Edition

[Darkoness21]

The link mu is really obscure to me because I don't know how to properly handle his projectiles especially his boomerang. I know side b is an option but it has a lot of start up. His weight is perfect for Mewtwo combos but how do I win neutral?

 

[InfinityCollision]

Shield. You can also clank boomerangs in a pinch. Teleporting past bombs can be a decent option, but I generally wouldn't try it with the boomerang since that could lead to a hit from behind.

Your win condition for neutral is basically to position yourself such that pulling a bomb is unsafe and throwing boomerangs is somewhat risky. He's too slow to maintain an effective footsies game against a competent Mewtwo, so once you're in he's relatively easy to deal with as swordsmen go.

 

[Garr]

Link MU: shield, wavedash, shield, wavedash, shield, wavedash...

 

[TheRealSkid]

Does anyone know how to deal with Ganon? His kill power and fair are insane, and I could use all the help I can get especially since my first PM tournament is coming up soon. Thanks!

 

[Zach777]

M2 vs Ganon is a test for M2's patience. What Ganon will do is hover in the air and fair when you try to approach or try to space with ftilt and dtilt. Just be patient and wait for openings then kick him off the stage when you find one and kill him. Ganon is very easy to edgeguard and gimp if you keep your cool. Telesnapping to the ledge is incredibly useful against Ganon because of his slow up-b.
Since this is your first tourney, I am going to explain telesnapping (that is what I call it anyway). When your onstage, at a medium distance from ledge, tele to the ledge but have M2 pivot so that he faces the edge. Hit upb, hold stick to ledge for a bit, then snap the stick in the opposite direction.

Back to subject.

Do not be afraid of chasing after Ganon when he is recovering, he is super easy to gimp just watch for side b tricks to avoid him suiciding you.

The best advice I can give you is don't get hit. If your eating fairs then get away from that range and cool your head. Annoy the heck out of Ganon with how safe your playing.

Hope this advice helps. Good luck at your tourney and have fun.

 

[iPunch]

Hey guys, how do you deal with Ivysaur MU ? i have troubles when he combo me , and can't avoid his up b kill

 

[X Riptide X]

Hey guys, how do you deal with Ivysaur MU ? i have troubles when he combo me , and can't avoid his up b kill

Ivysaur's not that hard to take care of, if you play smart. Try to make her side b whiff, because it can keep you in shieldstun and open you up for a punish. You have more range than almost all of her attacks, so use it. Space, zone her out, the usual. If you're in the air and it looks like she'll go for a Solar Beam or up B, teleport. I suppose if you're really desperate, you can air dodge. In my experience, teleport is better because of the endlag of those two moves; you can get a really good punish if you successfully dodge up B and solar beam. If you can't do either, depending on your percent, DI it appropriately so she can't hit you with the beam or up B's sweetspot. Her moveset is very vertically oriented, so try to stay grounded as much as possible.

Ivy's really floaty, so up throw will kill early. Back throw will be more effective for positioning, but can also kill at a decent percent. If you're edgeguarding her, you should be patient. She can't do any ledgestall up b's past 2, or else she'll SD, so just wait onstage and punish her when she tries to get back on.

 

[eideeiit]

No. You edgeguard her by holding ledge, forcing tether get-up and reacting to her direction. Holding ledge is the hardest part as she can razor leaf, seed bomb or aerial, but smart use of ledge invincibility and good timing should get the job done. Then just hold ledge until she's forced to reel in. Then just punish accordingly. Away -> bair, in -> disable, I believe. I haven't used it myself though, but I remember a good post InfinityCollision made about this somewhere.

 

[Zach777]

I am pretty sure disable would just go over Ivy's head though. My suggestion is use M2's amazing waveland and grab 2 back throw if Ivy lands on stage.

 

[InfinityCollision]

Disable is a little trickier vs ledge cancel/drift back on Ivy than ZSS because of her small frame. Doable, but ledge hop bair is faster and covers slight drifts more reliably. Disable is free if they drift onstage though, and leads into whatever you want.

 

[TheRealSkid]

Hi guys.
Does anyone have experience with the Roy matchup? His grab range and janky f tilt give me some trouble and he can sometimes kill easily with a correctly placed fsmash.
I know this is probably the wrong place to ask this as well, but what are some good options to use out of down throw?

 

[Super4ng]

Hi guys.
Does anyone have experience with the Roy matchup? His grab range and janky f tilt give me some trouble and he can sometimes kill easily with a correctly placed fsmash.
I know this is probably the wrong place to ask this as well, but what are some good options to use out of down throw?

I haven't played a Roy main, but it seems pretty straightforward. First off, you need to know what Mewtwo's throws are good for. Up throw is for combos, and kills at very high percentage, forward throw has the best damage, down throw sets up a tech chase.
If you can't punish the Roy's tech from the down throw, use a different throw to mix it up. I would suggest up throw because Roy has a hard time getting back to stage once he's above Mewtwo.

I would be worried more about Roy's down tilt than his forward tilt. Roy's forward tilt is better for spacing than combos, while his down tilt is his best combo starter because it pops you up.

For neutral, I would suggest abusing short hop shadow balls (the short hop makes it so the Roy can't short hop over them) and if he chooses to go in shield, teleport nair. If shadow balls aren't working, you can try catching Roy in his short hop by using a dash up smash. I would think that nair would be extremely effective against Roy, because it almost guarantees a cross up and shield poke.

Mewtwo's mix up options are very strong, like his teleport approach, disable and confusion. Most characters without a projectile have trouble dealing with shadow ball + teleport + aerial of your choosing.

 

[Zach777]

Roy uair might just beat weak shadowball and if you tele too much a good Roy will take you to town. Only use tele approaches as a surprise. Also, remember that fair and bair can be cced at low percents when you consider tele approaching. The advice super4ng gave about the use of shadowballs is good just be careful with over teleporting. Many M2s struggle with the habit of teleporting too much.

From fighting a decent Roy I would recommend using hover to stay above his dtilt and hitting him with bair when Roy keeps playing grounded. If Roy wants to play airborne to combat this, then just start playing a more grounded game yourself.

Here is a tip, Roy is great at beating ccing with his dtilt so be careful. Roy's dtilt knocks you down if you cc it

 

[Super4ng]

Roy uair might just beat weak shadowball and if you tele too much a good Roy will take you to town. Only use tele approaches as a surprise. Also, remember that fair and bair can be cced at low percents when you consider tele approaching. The advice super4ng gave about the use of shadowballs is good just be careful with over teleporting. Many M2s struggle with the habit of teleporting too much.

From fighting a decent Roy I would recommend using hover to stay above his dtilt and hitting him with bair when Roy keeps playing grounded. If Roy wants to play airborne to combat this, then just start playing a more grounded game yourself.

Here is a tip, Roy is great at beating ccing with his dtilt so be careful. Roy's dtilt knocks you down if you cc it

Good comments, and I definitely agree about over teleporting. I've been watching a few videos of Kaos' mewtwo and he teleports way too much. I think Frozen probably has the best balance. The way I think of it, is that Mewtwo has two playstyles in PM: he has his melee playstyle, which is mostly shield wave dashing and cc down tilt, and he has PM playstyle with hover and teleport stuff. But yeah I really agree with using teleport as a mix up, not an approach to try and force. (Reslived does a great analysis on Lucario and using double team approaches if you wanna look it up on YouTube, same point applies with mewtwo).

Last thing, I would caution about hovering against a Roy because being above a swordsman almost always means combo to death. I would use float probably more like a stall than anything, sorta like Gannon's float.

 

[Super4ng]

Roy uair might just beat weak shadowball and if you tele too much a good Roy will take you to town. Only use tele approaches as a surprise. Also, remember that fair and bair can be cced at low percents when you consider tele approaching. The advice super4ng gave about the use of shadowballs is good just be careful with over teleporting. Many M2s struggle with the habit of teleporting too much.

From fighting a decent Roy I would recommend using hover to stay above his dtilt and hitting him with bair when Roy keeps playing grounded. If Roy wants to play airborne to combat this, then just start playing a more grounded game yourself.

Here is a tip, Roy is great at beating ccing with his dtilt so be careful. Roy's dtilt knocks you down if you cc it

Also, if the Roy chooses to use an aerial move to clank with the shadow ball, you can still punish the end lag with a teleport nair. Roy doesn't have too many defensive options, and if they sit in shield even better, because you can throw him off stage and gimp his bad recovery

 

[InfinityCollision]

Neutral against Roy is tricky. While spacing float bairs/uairs above dtilt's hitboxes is a great option in neutral against Marth, Roy can bully that space more effectively with options like his SHFFL nair and side-b. There's a lot of give-and-take involved that doesn't really favor us imo, but any conversion we do get is potentially a touch of death giving his frailty.

Mewtwo's techchases are unreliable and Roy has trouble returning to ground, so your best option near midstage is generally uthrow. Use fthrow/bthrow to set up edgeguards.

@HyperSilver an important part of the Falco matchup that isn't discussed enough is learning how to move and position so that lasers have the least impact possible. Not just platform movement and powershielding, but not getting stuck in shield, not getting hit at certain points in your movement (early in a wavedash for example), and recovering quickly after hitstun (resuming movement with minimal downtime and no input errors). Neutral becomes a lot less scary if he can't simply shut you down/force questionable options with lasers, and while his pressure is still very effective there's potential for a sort of "pocket" that you can work from to even the playing field.

 

[Garr]

Regarding the Falco MU, sometimes you can just let the lasers hit you if Falco's too far to convert into them. Your percentage is a bit irrelevant in this matchup since Falco gets less and less combos on you the higher it is. It's better to just take the damage, then get out of harm's way than trying to shield/dodge every single one.

 

[RadicalFuzz]

His kill options from neutral are also not significantly threatening until extremely high percents. Mewtwo's recovery allows him to come back to stage from an early spike, but we are susceptible to getting shined off the top. I vastly prefer the Falco matchup to Fox or any character with strong/consistent kill setups on us.

 

[Garr]

I vastly prefer the Falco matchup to Fox or any character with strong/consistent kill setups on us.

Basically why I think Falco loses to Mewtwo. He's also the most gimpable out of three, plus lasers don't really bother Mewtwo as much as you'd think.

 

[TheRealSkid]

I just went to my first tournament a few weeks ago (I haven't been really active lately haha) and I agree with Garr. Long story short, of the 15 or so entrants in this tournament, a vast majority of them played fox. I was knocked into losers in the first round against a (surprise) fox main and he just killed mewtwo so easily (I have had better results playing agaist falcos btw). I even counterpicked Marth on him and still got bodied by this guy (who ended up in grand finals)
In matches with other foxes, I often picked dreamland simply due to the high blast zones that made it harder to kill M2. I really don't know if this will help anyone else or even if it's a sound thing to do but I found it helped.
Also (this is kind of unrelated) when many of you fellow M2 mains out there go to locals, do you usually see melee players playing on melee stages half the time? Or do you see some PM characters and stages in action? No one (yes, no one) knew the stage rules as far as I knew. When I asked this godly fox for any tips on my mewtwo after he rekt me, he replied by saying he just didn't know mewtwo at all. In addition, I picked wario land on this ganon player (I know, low blast zones and Ganon's fair) and he just didn't know the stage and that mewtwo had a teleport. Do you see stuff like this or is there a vast variety of pm character representation?
And also, this leaves me with one final question: how do I deal with good Falcons that knee often? This guy didn't over-use it but I found it as a constant threat (this guy ended up going to DL too). Thank you all for your help on this thread and sorry for making such a long and possibly annoying post.

 

[RadicalFuzz]

Questions aren't annoying at all, that's what this thread is for.
Houston is a little unique in that we have almost no character overlap and our PM scene is 99% primarily PM players. Our starters/counterpicks are bottom 5 and middle 5, and it's usually not just Melee stages or just PM stages. Dreamland is a great stage for Mewtwo for lots of matchups because he can wall of pain most characters much more easily than they can gimp him. Helps his longevity while not really helping theirs. I'm a relevant player and have been for a while, so though the other players don't know the specifics of what Mewtwo can do (that small period at the beginning of his float where he keeps his double jump, for instance) they know 90% of it.
My best advice against Falcon is move in such a way that his knee sourspots or misses, and his nair is easier to punish. My set against SFOP at the TLOC 1k was a great example of a sloppy Falcon. Like half of my openings were shieldgrabs on poorly spaced nairs. I screw the pooch on pretty much every punish opening, so don't pay attention to that lol, but you have to move in a way that makes what Falcon wants to do a bad idea. Mojo, a local Melee player who's ranked top 100 in the world, has a much safer Falcon and he knows the angles at which he's likely not going to be punished for shield pressure. I don't move well enough most of the time to disrupt his predictions and he runs train on me. If Falcon can get that good shield pressure then we have a very hard time reestablishing enough threat to make him stop pressing buttons.

 

[InfinityCollision]

Friendly reminder that you can uair/fair out of dthrow->knee setups starting around ~75 with good DI.

 

[RadicalFuzz]

That sounds beautiful. What would good DI be here?

 

[~Frozen~]

DI down + away, a little more towards down is optimal I believe.

 

[TheRealSkid]

Hey ~Frozen~ I have watched a lot of your mewtwo and your hover cancels are really fast and your hover bair combos are from another dimension. Do you have any tips for hover canceling so fast and on hitting faster fallers with HC fair or bair chains?

 

[iPunch]

Hover cancel -> move -> fastfall , that how i do, there is special timing i think .

 

[iPunch]

Hey ~Frozen~ I have watched a lot of your mewtwo and your hover cancels are really fast and your hover bair combos are from another dimension. Do you have any tips for hover canceling so fast and on hitting faster fallers with HC fair or bair chains?

Hover cancel -> aerial -> fastfall , there is special timing to be fast .

 

[eideeiit]

much wisdom here

also tip: trigger jump maybe

 

[Garr]

Hey ~Frozen~ I have watched a lot of your mewtwo and your hover cancels are really fast and your hover bair combos are from another dimension. Do you have any tips for hover canceling so fast and on hitting faster fallers with HC fair or bair chains?

A trick to get it fast is to figure out a way to jump while having access to your c-stick. Some Mewtwos bind a different button to jump, namely the L or R button, but in my case, I claw the Y button. If you want to get your HC's so fast that it'll make Peach players blush, go to Luigi's mansion and go to town on one of those pillars.

The input is jump -> hold down -> aerial on the first/second frame of hover -> fastfall. Once you get good at this, you can apply some interesting shield pressure.

 

[RadicalFuzz]

I used to move my hands to claw for HC aerials but I've been toying with assigning a trigger to jump for HC upair in neutral.

 

[Garr]

I used to move my hands to claw for HC aerials but I've been toying with assigning a trigger to jump for HC upair in neutral.

Only reason I stick to default is because Melee.

 

[Deathrender]

What are the tools I have at my disposal to deal with Falcon? I find that no matter how I DI, I get knee chained at low percents.

What are some good ways to keep an aggressive Fox off of me?

 

[Kapapanerp]

What are the tools I have at my disposal to deal with Falcon? I find that no matter how I DI, I get knee chained at low percents.

What are some good ways to keep an aggressive Fox off of me?

You can break out of Falcons throw to knee follow-ups with f-air after about 40% if you DI away, so the best he should be getting is an immaculately spaced u-air out of his throws.

As far as dealing with aggro Fox goes I honestly dont know, I've been struggling with that matchup when I'm on the defensive. Our punish game on Fox is crazy strong though, so as long as you're landing grabs sealing stocks shouldn't be too difficult.

 

[Super4ng]

I used to move my hands to claw for HC aerials but I've been toying with assigning a trigger to jump for HC upair in neutral.

You won't regret it my friend. I use left trigger to l cancel and wave dash, right trigger for HC. What's great about HC up air is that you can follow it up with an up tilt. It's great for punish short hop approaches and just putting up a wall of hit boxes

 

[Super4ng]

What are the tools I have at my disposal to deal with Falcon? I find that no matter how I DI, I get knee chained at low percents.

What are some good ways to keep an aggressive Fox off of me?

I have terrible DI so I'm not sure what all works, but my friend places well at tournaments and mains falcon/Falco. What I've found is you can walk falcon out pretty successfully with hover back airs. No need to HC because if you miss space you can just hover out of the way. Also, spamming shadow ball is a must. Use nair to punish bad position. Also pretty important is up smash punishes aggressive falcon for free because his weight and fall speed basically keep him in place even with smash DI.

Now for Fox. I haven't faced a really good Fox that has forced me to adapt, so I wouldn't be too much help. One out of shield option I think many people fail to mention though is full hop rising nair to hover out of shield. It covers front and back of Mewtwo and his full hop is pretty high, so short hop shenanigans from fox won't happen.

 

[RadicalFuzz]

I don't have a problem with aggressive Foxes, I just can't deal with lasers at all, so I have a few tips. They hate our nair with a passion, fantastic at scooping them into it and then setting up a techchase situation, especially on tri-platform stages where their tech options can all be covered with nair again. Up smash out of shield is a surprisingly solid option if they're doing shine pressure, but I would assume shinegrab beats it. Foxes love catching roll backwards with running up smash, so be careful of how and when you roll. If you're willing to take the risk, forward smash cleanly beats SHFL approaches. Forward tilt works too, but has to be timed a little better. Another really good tactic is baiting out an aerial with movement, mostly wavedashes because our dash dance sucks, and then getting the grab punish. Getting a back throw into edgeguard at 0% feels so nice.

 

[Deathrender]

Here's a weird one: Zelda

There are a couple of local Zeldas that just shred me. It's like every move is anti-tech or something. Her aerials are also much better than mine. I can't get in during their downtime. Do I just bait out a poorly spaced attack and keep her in the air? Her neutral completely destroys Mewtwo's.

Though it's nice to have an easier time hitting that beautiful Down B finisher.

 

[Zach777]

M2 vs Zelda is Mewtwo favored. We out combo her by alot. M2's neutral does just fine.

Just keep in mind these basic things.

Be patient when she is spamming bair/fair. Wait for an opening that is safe to exploit or charge shadowball.

Do not get overwhelmed by her teleporting. If she is too tricky with it just use your's and get in the air somewhere.

Attacks clank with Din's and force it to go back to her. Even your airials clank it.

M2's dtilt and ftilt outrange alot of her stuff except maybe fsmash. Abuse your tilts.

Rolling is fine as she is slow and has a hard time punishing it. Just know where Din is before you roll.

Always remember that Din's not highly charged can be crouch cancelled even at higher percents.

All the tricks for edgeguarding M2 work on Zelda. Abuse that. Just think of things that you don't want opponents doing to you in recovery situations and apply that to her.

Hope this helps.

 

[Kneato]

Format- Character: Matchup from

's Perspective (+3 has Mewtwo winning)

:-1

:+1

:0

:-2

:0

:-1

:0

:-1

:+1

:+2

:-1

:0

:+1

:-1

:+1

:+1

:0

:0

:-1

:+2

:0

:0

:+1

:0

:+1

:-1

:+2

:+1

:+2

:0

:+2

:-1

:+3

:+1

:+1

:+2

:+1

:+2

:+2

:+3

What do you guys think? Anything wildly inaccurate?

 

[TheRealSkid]

Kneato I'm not sure about link. He has so much range and his fsmash and up b are easy kills despite how easy it can be to kill him with edgeguarding.
+2 for ganon is a little much since a competent Ganon can deal lots of pain and salt with his meaty fair. But I still think m2 wins but more of a +1 kind of thing. (Same for bowser imo)
Other than that, I agree and it looks great!