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Guide 3.6 Final: The Litt-le Things
- Thread starter Litt
- Start date
Because thats my name bud, Ken Litt --> K Lit to fit the 4 letter tag... I only told people it was intentional ;P (our little secret though) Its what I entered my first tourney as back when I was a complete scrub (summer of 11 I believe, back when Jman and Hax was a thing, funny enough, it was them who I played first round of doubles my first tourney and made me quit the game entirely) Didn't start playing again till February of 13 when Spawn started training me at Uconn, and by that time I got assigned a computer ID where KLit was my user and the class was like... OMG **** **** ****.... so I just told people thats why I used KLit.
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yeah, but everyone had to ruin the tag for me, spelling it wrong, not letting me use it in tourney, or TO intentionally changing it... so i got fed up of what was originally a very innocent tag made when I was young, and went with Barbie... like Barbie and Ken, made sense since I played samus and she welll is a hot blonde...
Aaah haha makes sense. It's all coming together now. Was confused about the whole thing but I get it now. Thinking about changing my tag myself. Made this when I was 17; I'll be 24 in October and I think it is time for a new smash identity. Was pretty well known in brawl but I don't really care to be recognized by them when smash 4 is out. Think it will be fun to build up a new reputation throughout the community.
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Well to be honest, I had struggled myself as a player for a while with my own identity. I was not "Good" at the game by any means, and I would always be carried in doubles by my partner who was in short, amazing. It was not until I took on my own identity, and started playing for myself to win, did I notice any real improvement as a player, my mentor has since stopped playing since his mom passed and it really did push me to improve my game and no longer play to help him win but rather play for my own enjoyment of getting better. I used to tell myself when I first started playing with him, it was ok that I was getting 4 stocked, the only reason I am playing is for fun and getting better, but soon that became my tournament mentality as well, and if your only goal is fun and getting better, there is no drive to push you to take that win away from someone else. It was at that time, I changed my tag, I changed the color samus I used (I used to play pink samus after Hugs because he was my role model growing up playing the game, and I always wanted to play him) but I realized, I am my own player, I don't need to model myself after others and to make something of myself I needed to push myself. A new tag, or even just adopting a new color/costume for your character can make a world of difference towards you as a player and person. Its kind of like when girls go get a make over, makes them feel confident, and like they are a whole new person, but all it takes it a little change and some confidence to really move forward. I know by this point it sounds like I am rambling, but just look at Hax, not until Jman left NY, did he ever push himself as a player, and train that much harder. Its not Jman and Hax$ anymore, its like ohhh jman I remember him, and **** hax is top in the world. (Not to hate on jman at all, amazing player and really nice guy)
On another note your story sounds a lot like M2K. Vidjogamer is one of the pioneers of the melee metagame and he knew M2K as scrub who he ended up having to team with as a last resort and they ended up winning (M2K getting carried) then time went on Vidjo stopped playing and M2K went on to be the greatest smasher ever.
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pinkdeaf1
Smash Ace
That is inspirational. M2K is an inspiration to us all, and by extension,,,
Mhmm even M2K started this game being bad. You can take your skills anywhere if you just set your mind to it.
and... you have high enough quality of players to train with, I know a fox player in melee who wanted to be the best, had been in the scene since 08, but he is complete ass because he never played with better people, only practiced tech skill, you need both tech skill and the experience of applying it in order to be good.
I definitely agree. That is my issue right now. Got fantastic tech skills but lack experience against good players. A lot of people have said they see my potential I just need more experience at a higher level. My last tourney I got 5th outta 27 I think. Lost to Lain but I definitely could have beaten him I feel like if I just had better experience. I live in an area dominated by melee purists. They don't even allow talk of PM. Lol
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hmm thennn play melee... i never practice PM but place top 5 all the time in almost every tourney I go to
I'm just so bored of melee. It is great but sooo old. I played it enough already.
Listen to yourself... claiming to fail to due to lack of experience, but complains about playing a game that will indirectly help him vastly improve in PM...
pizzacato
Smash Ace
Melee is the best tool to practice PM with.
Just plain and simple. The unforgiveness you must deal with in Melee will create for a you a play style that is more on point than if you were to work on PM alone.
imho
Just plain and simple. The unforgiveness you must deal with in Melee will create for a you a play style that is more on point than if you were to work on PM alone.
imho
I was under the impression that playing melee to practice PM doesn't work well. Like arn't the timings and things like that different in PM versus melee? It is not even so much that I want to be better in PM I just want to play it. It is way funner than melee to me. I played melee a lot as a teen and I'm done with it. I like PM because it is new and different. If I really really just wanted to get better and didn't care about the fun I was having I would play melee to make me better in PM if that really works. But I just don't enjoy the game enough to wanna practice playing it over PM. I've got other things to worry about for now anyways other than playing smash. When my life gets more stable I'll get back into it an maybe even play more melee if that will help. But for now it is not a priority for me as I won't be attending anything soon anyways.
Chevy
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2014
- Messages
- 736
Playing Melee will help you with fundamentals and proper application of tilts, jabs, wavedashing, etc. It's hard mode because timings are more strict and that will help you play more crisply in PM. It's also hard mode because your character is bad. : (
I wouldn't say it's better overall than practicing PM though, there's a lot of new techniques to practice in PM that aren't available in Melee, and the general quality of her moves means a lot of your follow-ups should be different than they would be in Melee. Your neutral game also has a lot more options in PM, etc. Basically, play Melee to work on portions of your PM game, but don't play Melee Samus in PM.
I wouldn't say it's better overall than practicing PM though, there's a lot of new techniques to practice in PM that aren't available in Melee, and the general quality of her moves means a lot of your follow-ups should be different than they would be in Melee. Your neutral game also has a lot more options in PM, etc. Basically, play Melee to work on portions of your PM game, but don't play Melee Samus in PM.
The reason you can't play melee samus in PM is because her neutral was created based on her tilts being long enough to space with, which you could then move foward and pressure their shield with jabs, however samus's tilts are **** in PM now relative to the rest of the cast that can just nair through everything... *Cough* *Bull**** super armor, and multi hit moves that don't permit CCing, which samus thrives on*, thats why the sonic match up is beyond stupid, samus can't CC any of his moves, same with Ike samus, the moves are just too ****ing huge of knock back for us to do ANYTHING but respect the character for no other reason than the moveset given and not the player wielding that character :/ But I digress, playing melee samus will certainly help make your movement more fluid and strengthen your fundamentals. However...
it was just funner than melee to me... logically they are the same game, platforms, wavedashing, nintendo, shield drops, ledges... stages... ect... all mechanics carry over, so perhaps the speed of play is what you like more because its on easy mode... but then again, why play a competitive game at all if all you want is easy mode, if there is a hard mode to improve your game, why not actually explore your options :/ buts thats just me. New and different? Thats like taking a krabby paddy, painting it yellow, and saying because its a pretty paddy, its more fun, tastes better, and I like it better... its just ****ing yellow now... cmon thats ignorance at its very finest.
Chevy
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2014
- Messages
- 736
Learn to deal with new options, adapt. Just because you can't f-tilt everything in the game doesn't make it bad.
Maybe it's more fun because it looks nicer, has a better stage selection, has lots of fun additions to Samus as a character, and y'know, we don't have to play the same 8 characters over and over again. Variety is an important aspect of fun, and I personally prefer a balanced game.
Ignorance at it's finest is saying pm is just an easy mode melee lol. Way more characters and match ups to learn, waaay better stage selection, brawl mechanics which I enjoy like glide tossing, the list of reasons pm is funner to some people go on and on. Samus has a whole different never before seen kind of appeal in PM versus melee. Also maybe I enjoy playing some characters that aren't in melee? Assuming I like the easiness of PM's techs compared to melee's as to why I enjoy PM just your way of satisfying your melee elitist narrow minded ego.
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If you prefer a ballanced game... then you would be playing melee... even PMBR admited there are a number of hella broken things about this game currently so don't even start there
. Hmm variety... give me the top 8 players at Evo this year thats variety... give me the top 8 PM at the last national and I bet you there isnt that much of variety on that list 
. And its not about adapting to not dong f tilts... again a very ignorant statement, it was spacing your game around them instead of avoiding a top of bs and broken mechanics the PMBR added to characters instead of them having to play an honest based ground game, abusable moves are no fun especially if you cant really punish them. I mechanically PM is easy mode, there is no denying that, just because you throw in an overwhelming amount of things to make up for what the game mechanically lacks to make a joke of a game where you can abuse the **** out of the one broken thing your character is given, which for most characters requires very little skill as a player to use, which stops any thought being put into the game and its literally a slug fest of broken crap. :/
Chevy
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2014
- Messages
- 736
You cannot even plausibly claim Melee is a balanced game, no one does. This is accepted, don't defend the game for it's most egregious flaw. Looking at a top 8 isn't even a good baseline, considering there's about 8 viable characters in Melee. Only taking top 8 is obviously going to skew the PM numbers down towards 8, because there can only be 8 in the top 8. Get it? Even then I seriously doubt you'll match the character diversity in Melee.
Analyzing your actual complaints:
Super armor->the only character with a large amount of armor is Bowser. If you are having trouble with Bowser as Samus you have much bigger problems as a player.
Sonic->have you not called this matchup broken in Samus' favor before? If crouch cancelling isn't working, stop crouch cancelling and hit him as he approaches you, read and punish. Sorry that you can't just hold down and spam down c-stick to solve all of your problems.
Ike->his moves are big and powerful, but they are also slow, and he has largely horizontal movement on the ground, so missiles shut him down pretty well. Being in the air against him sucks, but it's no worse than against Marth.
I won't claim the game is perfectly balanced, there are certainly outliers, Mewtwo, Pit, Mario, Sonic, Diddy. But they aren't even close to as bad as the Melee top tiers are compared to the Melee mids. And we can trust that these kind of things will be addressed and fixed. Seems to me you are just having trouble fighting random mid and low tier characters because you just aren't adapting at all. And please don't ever bring up overcentralizing design and then claim Melee is devoid of it. Shine and Falco lasers are more degenerate than anything anybody's been given in PM, you've just had a decade to get used to it.
Analyzing your actual complaints:
Super armor->the only character with a large amount of armor is Bowser. If you are having trouble with Bowser as Samus you have much bigger problems as a player.
Sonic->have you not called this matchup broken in Samus' favor before? If crouch cancelling isn't working, stop crouch cancelling and hit him as he approaches you, read and punish. Sorry that you can't just hold down and spam down c-stick to solve all of your problems.
Ike->his moves are big and powerful, but they are also slow, and he has largely horizontal movement on the ground, so missiles shut him down pretty well. Being in the air against him sucks, but it's no worse than against Marth.
I won't claim the game is perfectly balanced, there are certainly outliers, Mewtwo, Pit, Mario, Sonic, Diddy. But they aren't even close to as bad as the Melee top tiers are compared to the Melee mids. And we can trust that these kind of things will be addressed and fixed. Seems to me you are just having trouble fighting random mid and low tier characters because you just aren't adapting at all. And please don't ever bring up overcentralizing design and then claim Melee is devoid of it. Shine and Falco lasers are more degenerate than anything anybody's been given in PM, you've just had a decade to get used to it.
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Ok lets go, I havent **** on anyone for a while and its long over due kid. Melee has near infinite potential because the game engine allows tech just past the ability of normal humans, whichs requires skill to perform, this tech allows players to keep up and even win match ups inherently difficult due to the moveset given to those characters, which in fact makes the GAME itself balanced. PMBR threw in a ton of mechanics they believed to balance character, but when ended up happening is an over buffered cast that can nearly all recover from anywhere. There is a reason the top 8 are all going to be of a simular few characters because those are the one who are the most broken at the time due to buffs in that version.
Super armor on characters that can kill the majority of the cast at 80-90%... shouldn't have end all beat all moves that you must respect, that in its very core concept is idiotic to even give a character despite the speed it comes out, idk what bowsers you play kid but they can certainly crouch cancel into super armor moves and abuse the **** out of that uncessarily high pirority and kill potential, and its not like they even die early or are gimp-able. I have called this match up broken on the basis of playing samus like a mindless schmuck spamming down b, you make the match up so unfun for your opponent based on a move given to samus rather than any sort of intelligence, foresight, spacing or practice. Being in the air against marth... you can.... DI away and give up space to get back to the ground... you can CC any non tippered marth move into dsmash... but no being in the air again ike is like being a sitting duck, ike gets a free fair off a grab despite any DI you try so there is a kill throw in and of itself.... He has a quick draw into jump canceled, up smash and grab or the attack itself which beats out missiles... so no I can certainly say its broken, not as a game, but as the certain unreasonable buffs given to some characters but not others on top of their already dominant aspect of one area of play. And I agree with you, moveset wise, the top tiers in melee have the rest of the cast beat... the game engine, DI, and balanced game mechanics between characters to establish consistency is what makes melee balanced, because even a yoshi can suddenly become top tier in the world should the PLAYER be good enough, and not just exploit an easy spamable tech.
Get used to a shine/falco's lasers? Its called powershielding for falcos lasers bud, and its a commitment to use because it first and foremost keeps falcos position consistent and leaves him vulnerable during fire... The shine is what hold's fox together as a character... and how he strings together combos... however you can adapt to the stuff he does, and its not because we have had 10 years... its because the game allows it, players pushed boundaries and made discoveries.... In a broken game when you cant get out of set combos and continue to use spamable cover all option moves... meta comes to a stand still, and you must wait for updates, its not player who triumphs, its the lucky for who get the head start on the next batch of broken characters. Perhaps one day they will fix the game but for now, don't even try defending it lmao. Here is a huge news flash though, all those same players that know all about the game and how to adapt... can only push meta as far as it can go, and as proven by these ridiculous "improvements" to characters, meta doesnt evolve if the game doesnt permit it to. You can't make a character shot hop any lower than its programed to do so, just as you can push meta past a point where its doesnt exist.
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Chevy
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2014
- Messages
- 736
The tech in PM is the same as Melee, god forbid it's a little easier to shorthop, so the potential is the same, higher even given the extra mechanics. Having to work extra hard to succeed with a mid tier character doesn't equal balance, that's an insane notion, and is no different than playing a lackluster character in PM. Recoveries are being addressed. Top 8 aren't always similar. Bowser has no fast moves with super armor. Are you complaining about his almost Falcon Punch speed f-smash? Try dodging it. If he's sitting there crouching you should just grab or spam missiles. And I've played GimpyFish's Bowser. Sonic is *****, I'll give you that one, but it doesn't stop you from adapting and beating him, it's not fun, but it's doable. If Ike quickdraws into your missile, he just stopped short and did an attack near you, punish is easy. I won't defend Mewtwo, Pit, or Mario for spammable stuff, but neither should you defend Falco. You can predict teleport and punish, you can powershield arrow and fireballs just like you can lasers. You can also actually nair through Pit arrow and Mario fireballs, and zair them too, options you don't have against Falco.
I have no problem dealing with Falco lasers, I have adapted and overcome them, but I recognize that they are just as if not dirtier and more spammable than anything in PM. Shine is a broken tool, I'm not saying it doesn't create interesting strings and technical play, but you can bet your ass if it wasn't in Melee, and some PM character got a frame 1 move that spikes, auto-combos into a move that kills at 80%(or anything else), applies 100% safe shield pressure, can be used out of shield, has invincibility, and reflects projectiles, that people would be up in arms.
You are so wrong on so many its cute. First and foremore, it is by no means an auto combo move, you need to jump cancel it, then wavedash into another move, so to do that and then throw out another move is asking a lot of a player in the first place... its only invinsable frame one... when the attack hitbox comes out... which surrounds their entire body... which means they aren't going to get hit by anything anyway..... falco's does not spike, and you can sdi fox's shine so it doesnt send you as far... or you just throw out a move soooo fox cant run or jump over and shine you :/ just kind of use your head... you want an auto combos... mario jab jab downsmash... cmon bro :/ and on top of it not even being an auto combo... based just off of pure tech skill required, you can sdi the shine itself so you are pushed farther away or closer to fox so there isnt a follow up and or you can shield and the up smash does not connect.
Chevy
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2014
- Messages
- 736
I never said it was THAT bad of a matchup, it's probably Samus' best in the top 8. And an auto-combo is an auto-combo regardless of technical precision required. And the invincibility is negligible, but in situations where you would out-prioritize shine it saves them. And I'm not talking about Falco's. I'm not going to claim to be the Melee expert, just throwing my 2 cents in.
learn samus
Leave this post/topic/guide and I am upset you wasted space on my guide for asking such a question, I can **** on almost any zard out there, (and have), read the guide, understand the tools you have to accomplish the job, or go find the character board you are looking for. DO not come here asking for other characters to play, you will just get a rude, mean, or insulting post otherwise.
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Hey i'm new to project M and Samus and that's just what i heard in a guide (Smash 101 PM character Lesson - Kaysick/Pooch (samus)) so i was wanting a second opinion not some one to hate me for asking questions... I take it Samus can fight against a zard, that's all i wanted to know.
pooch182
Smash Journeyman
The whole MU coverage at the end of our video is my main regret after making it. I didn't really feel comfortable offering my opinions with a bunch of MUs, because of my own lack of experience, but also didn't want to seem too unprofessional after starting it.
That being said, the safest thing to do when going into a new match up (in my opinion), is to play very campy and let your missiles do the work. Analyze what the opponent does to deal with missiles. Are they able to easily move through them and approach? Are they too big and slow to avoid or combat your projectiles?
Study and adapt your play accordingly. Always whittle down from heavy projectile game down to heavy ground game. Find your balance among the two, and apply it to whichever MU you're dealing with.
That being said, the safest thing to do when going into a new match up (in my opinion), is to play very campy and let your missiles do the work. Analyze what the opponent does to deal with missiles. Are they able to easily move through them and approach? Are they too big and slow to avoid or combat your projectiles?
Study and adapt your play accordingly. Always whittle down from heavy projectile game down to heavy ground game. Find your balance among the two, and apply it to whichever MU you're dealing with.
I agree that can be a good strategy when dealing with heavier characters, however ill advised if you can see they are going for balls deep head first approach abusing their priority and ability to take hits
Ok Thanks; whats the best way to work on missile canceling?
Do it. A lot.
Once you can do it watching samus, switch to keeping your eye on another platform.
Once you can do that, set a CPU to jump on the other platform and missile while keeping an eye on it.
Once you can do it watching samus, switch to keeping your eye on another platform.
Once you can do that, set a CPU to jump on the other platform and missile while keeping an eye on it.
Sir, while I will answer specific questions not covered in this forum, that information is beyond out there, not only in the melee samus guides, but esam took the time out to make a guide, so instead of wasting someone else's time explaining the best way to practice, research!, watch!, read!, learn!, practice!
Thanks