Guide 3.6 Final: The Litt-le Things

[Litt]

I definitely didn't aerial interrupt, this happens somewhat frequently and there is never any landing lag, and I didn't have to input the move twice. I apologize for not being aware that this wasn't character specific, but either way Samus can utilize it, so it's still relevant. This doesn't warrant a new topic as it's only one little thing in her game, which is exactly what this thread is for.

Anyway, today I found out that she'll actually land if her feet touch the ground at any point in the double jump. I believe this is what I was actually experiencing on platforms. So essentially, you have a chance to land once every flip while she's right side up. This most likely works with any character who rotates while jumping. If I'm wrong on any of this please correct me. This is all based on observation.

Chevy, once again, please stop posting this on this topic, its not character specific again, and what you are looking at are characters whose hurtboxes change form during a double jump animation, as for what you are noticing has zero landing lag, I heavily question your judgement there, but I digress, none of which is character specific or a little part of SAMUS's game, its a little part of everyone's game, so for the 3rd time now, if you care to discuss it, or for me to even go into depth on the topic, make a new thread for it ^_^.

 

[ph00tbag]

No impact landing definitely has no lag. That's, like, the idea.

Although, no impact landings, as I've said, are pretty useful in Samus's ledge game. I think it warrants mention.

 

[Litt]

No impact landing definitely has no lag. That's, like, the idea.

Although, no impact landings, as I've said, are pretty useful in Samus's ledge game. I think it warrants mention.

Added no impact lands to the list of options samus has while on the ledge, also @ ph00tbag , @ JerkPhil and @ Chevy , would you guys mind trying out SHFFLed Up Air (landing back to back to the opponent) --> fire upsmash, I'm not 100% sure this is a set combo, but when the last hitbox (that knocks the opponent away and is the strongest of all the up air hitboxes) does not hit, I can L cancel into an up smash every time, when it hits the opponent.

 

[JerkPhil]

I do not play Samus in PM anymore as I believe it will disturb my Melee Samus play. :/

 

[Litt]

I do not play Samus in PM anymore as I believe it will disturb my Melee Samus play. :/

Hahahha yeah it really does

 

[Chevy]

Added no impact lands to the list of options samus has while on the ledge, also @ ph00tbag , @ JerkPhil and @ Chevy , would you guys mind trying out SHFFLed Up Air (landing back to back to the opponent) --> fire upsmash, I'm not 100% sure this is a set combo, but when the last hitbox (that knocks the opponent away and is the strongest of all the up air hitboxes) does not hit, I can L cancel into an up smash every time, when it hits the opponent.

I tried it out, but just ended up wasting stocks trying to test it in a match. I managed to land in front of my opponent once after landing it, and he had his shield up before the up-smash hit. If I had been behind him, he'd less likely have expected it, and might not have shielded. But I think it's safe to say this can be shielded if expected. Though it's still good if you can find an opening, because it's hard to punish even on shield if you're back to back.

 

[Kankato]

Noob observation, but Samus can crawl under Fox's SHDL, which relieves a lot of passive pressure from that MU. She (might) be able to do it with Falco, but Falco players are significantly better at controlling lazor height so It wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Litt]

Noob observation, but Samus can crawl under Fox's SHDL, which relieves a lot of passive pressure from that MU. She (might) be able to do it with Falco, but Falco players are significantly better at controlling lazor height so It wouldn't surprise me.

No samus can't crawl under falcos short hop fast fall single laser

 

[Kankato]

No samus can't crawl under falcos short hop fast fall single laser

Thanks for the clarification. Better get good at Powershielding.

 

[Litt]

I havent tested it yet, but perhaps the boost ball could clank with lasers (not sure of this at all, but worth a shot), but yeah powershielding is 100% necessary against melee falcos

 

[MonkUnit]

Lasers don't clank at all, so the laser would go through the boost ball and hit Samus.

 

[Chevy]

Crawl isn't completely worthless against Falco's lasers. It at least forces him to time the shot very well. This is probably less relevant at a top level, where the Falco player can expertly control the exact height of every laser, but I've been able to avoid about half his shots by just crawling towards him.

 

[WizKid911]

But what can you really do once you get close out of crawl. As soon as you get In they will down air, reflect. You cant just pop up cause theres still gonna be lasers also. I use the boost ball too under lasers, but it feels like it just puts me In a position to get stomped on

 

[ph00tbag]

It does force him to time his lasers to come out at a very specific time, and it makes Samus's hitbox very small, which gives you more leeway in timing the powershield.

But what can you really do once you get close out of crawl. As soon as you get In they will down air, reflect. You cant just pop up cause theres still gonna be lasers also. I use the boost ball too under lasers, but it feels like it just puts me In a position to get stomped on

You could probably mix up the spacing by using boost ball. In general be aware of where he is, and be prepared to block at dair. He'll probably be doing it late, so wait for the shine to up-B if that's the option you're jonesing for.

 

[Chevy]

But what can you really do once you get close out of crawl. As soon as you get In they will down air, reflect. You cant just pop up cause theres still gonna be lasers also. I use the boost ball too under lasers, but it feels like it just puts me In a position to get stomped on

Dtilt, or Dsmash, which sets him up to be juggled by those moves while you crawl around under him. You can rack up crazy percent against spacies like this.

 

[WizKid911]

I do space poorly with that but I will have to try it more I guess. It just seems to never work for me

 

[Litt]

Ok everyone, there is a very slim chance you will get a cc down smash on falco, and second even at mid level, players have amazing control over the height of falco's lasers, its too bad about boost ball not clanking, but hell its a laser so what are ya gonna do

 

[0RLY]

Ive tested it before too... How does it fail? It should protect you from your own missile or if it connects then the zair will hit them after

The missile will be reflected and hit you before the zair will hit mario or break the missile. Unless you airdodge backwards, but then you only break the missile and lose ground. Mario has low endlag on cape so he can still block your zair. Pit's shield reflects the projectile back at double speed and block the zair, so it fails. Against M2, I've tested that you can still hit him during his cooldown of confusion as long as you dash in after the missile, AD past it and zair. The range on confusion prevents you from zairing M2 out of the confusion without protecting you from the missile. That would mean losing the trade as M2 takes 4% from zair and you take 10% from a reflected missile.

 

[WizKid911]

The missile will be reflected and hit you before the zair will hit mario or break the missile. Unless you airdodge backwards, but then you only break the missile and lose ground. Mario has low endlag on cape so he can still block your zair. Pit's shield reflects the projectile back at double speed and block the zair, so it fails. Against M2, I've tested that you can still hit him during his cooldown of confusion as long as you dash in after the missile, AD past it and zair. The range on confusion prevents you from zairing M2 out of the confusion without protecting you from the missile. That would mean losing the trade as M2 takes 4% from zair and you take 10% from a reflected missile.

So you are saying that the missile will go through your zair against mewtwo? I dont have a pit to test this on but I have fought mario as well as spacies. I have even fought a mewtwo.

 

[Chevy]

I believe when the zair doesn't kill the missile, it's because they both reached the opponent near the same time, but the missile was reflected before the zair hit. Most likely the zair's hitbox is past the missile by a small margin when it is reflected, so the missile isn't destroyed either. I'm not totally sure, this is just my best guess. This happens to me against spacies sometimes too, I feel I should be safe and then eat my own missile.

 

[0RLY]

Vs M2, if you missile cancel, shad forward zair like you normally would against spacies, you will successfully zair m2 but also eat your own super missile. If you missile cancel, dash in, shad forward zair through the missile, you can still zair M2, but you will only hit with zair. you won't be able to stop him from using confusion. If you missile cancel, shad backwards zair, you can zair your own missile and destroy it, but it's kinda hard to do since the missile is so close to the ground and you lose ground and nobody takes damage. It's a pretty useless option really. I would stick with missile cancel to boost ball vs. characters with ranged reflect moves.

 

[WizKid911]

I tested on mewtwo. You have to time the zair and be far enough back in order for that to happen. Havent tested against spacies reflecter again. It must only work on powershield. And I could have sworn that I used it against marios cape before. All in all it is a mix up option. You shouldnt always do the same thing anyways because then your opponent will know whats coming

 

[Chevy]

It just depends on how late you cancel the missile, how early you zair, which direction you air-dodge, how fast they react, and the distance between you. Definitely works on spacies if times right, will never work on Pit, as his shield just blocks the zair. I'd say it probably works if timed really well against Mario, Mewtwo is just a no-go.

 

[Litt]

It just depends on how late you cancel the missile, how early you zair, which direction you air-dodge, how fast they react, and the distance between you. Definitely works on spacies if times right, will never work on Pit, as his shield just blocks the zair. I'd say it probably works if timed really well against Mario, Mewtwo is just a no-go.

Im pretty sure there is a way to make it work against pit, because I believe the shield doesnt cover his entire body

 

[Chevy]

Hmm, might be worth testing a headshot then.

 

[WizKid911]

Has anyone air dodged past their opponent and zair'd them in the back of the head? Its kinda funny

 

[Chevy]

Has anyone air dodged past their opponent and zair'd them in the back of the head? Its kinda funny

Every now and then, it's nice to have an option other than fall helplessly out of dodge.

 

[Litt]

I mean, the zair does have its strongest hitbox at its tip, I would assume you can zair past pits shield into his body, but ive only played one pit, and that was back at apex, sooo you guys are gonna have to test that one out

 

[WizKid911]

Im pretty sure it wont go past. Its like zairing a wall

 

[pizzacato]

Grab that ****. Pit don't know.

 

[Chevy]

@ Litt you should remove the chain grab on Fox portion of the OP, or at least mention that they can DI out of it. Also I think the Hylian Lowrider deserves a mention as a ledge-option. It's good when they are just close enough to punish you coming on-stage, but too far to smack you at ledge-distance.

 

[Litt]

@ Litt you should remove the chain grab on Fox portion of the OP, or at least mention that they can DI out of it. Also I think the Hylian Lowrider deserves a mention as a ledge-option. It's good when they are just close enough to punish you coming on-stage, but too far to smack you at ledge-distance.

Completely agree with you there, I was actually using it the other day without even realizing how easy it was xD, ill try to get to it later today, and ill clean it up to make it look nicer too

@ Chevy , just made the changes, and made it look a bit nicer, what do you think?

 

[Chevy]

Looks good man. Nice job.

 

[Hylian]

People can actually do the lowrider consistently now? Interesting . No one could do it back in the day haha.

 

[Chevy]

People can actually do the lowrider consistently now? Interesting . No one could do it back in the day haha.

Yeah, I took a look through the Melee forums, found it and tried it out in PM and it's fairly easy. I believe it's a bigger window in PM, you can even drift from the stage a little bit and still regrab.

 

[Hylian]

Yeah, I took a look through the Melee forums, found it and tried it out in PM and it's fairly easy. I believe it's a bigger window in PM, you can even drift from the stage a little bit and still regrab.

It was a 1 frame window in melee so I wouldn't be surprised haha.

 

[XalchemistX]

Thanks a lot Barbie! I've been trying for an hour trying to do the missile cancel until I saw this thread

 

[pinkdeaf1]

What would be Samus' best general option for edgeguarding? At a tourney I went to, Dair off of a ledge drop to short hop, or off of a short hop following their short hop worked fine, probably because it was unexpected. So I doubt that Dair would be something to try often. Instead, maybe u-tilt would be better, or maybe I should wait for them to return with a sharged shot in my pocket. I don't really know. Any opinions, anyone?

 

[Chevy]

What would be Samus' best general option for edgeguarding? At a tourney I went to, Dair off of a ledge drop to short hop, or off of a short hop following their short hop worked fine, probably because it was unexpected. So I doubt that Dair would be something to try often. Instead, maybe u-tilt would be better, or maybe I should wait for them to return with a sharged shot in my pocket. I don't really know. Any opinions, anyone?

You can use homing missiles when they are far away, smash missiles if you are confident in your aim and prediction. You can B-air if you need the disjoint, and it's probably your strongest edgeguarding move. D-air if you can land it, off-stage bombs help here. Up-tilt if they miss the sweet spot, this is particularly good on spacies, it forces them to go for the ledge. Bomb drop off the ledge is good on low recoveries, most will panic and immediately up-B, then you can up-tilt them. F-smash angled down hits a little below the stage, so that stumps some if you can time it properly. D-smash can stage spike at the ledge. Z-air on bad recoveries(or multi-jumpers) when they are level with or a little above the stage. Drop off smash missile, drop off charge shot, drop off-pop-a-nooch(very good on low recoveries). SWD-bomb-jump-nooch. Reverse SWD shield tumble double jump D-air/B-air/N-air. For ice mode, off-stage F-airs, D-tilt on ledge, Up-smash when they go high.

That's what I've got off the top of my head. Samus thrives off stage well enough that you can pretty much make use of any move it's just about knowing which is best. Deciding which to use is just a matter of character, player, stage, and mix-ups.

 

[pizzacato]

#edgeguardingischeap
#fightlikeanadult
#toomanyhashtagsinonenightisnthealthy
sorryguys
drunk pizzacat on the prowl.