3.5 Link Discussion

[EmptySky00]

Lasers shut down projectile use since they either beat startup because our projectiles are all slow or they flat out cancel them like with bombs or rang. You can get bombs in over the lasers though. Full hop rang down sounds like a fantastic way to die by giving him a free approach with minimal potential payout <_> if you hit him (which the angle you're throwing it at makes it less likely), you get 5% and no opportunity for a conversion at all. If you miss, he ****s you up. Seems really really bad.

 

[Hylian]

It's actually amazing, but w/e you say lol. Not sure how falco is approaching you with a rang in front of or hitting him and while you are above him and your nair beats every single one of his moves while falling.

 

[EmptySky00]

Way to be dismissive instead of substantiating and helping me alleviate me apparent ignorance on the matter. He's approaching you because full hop downward rang can only hit in literally one spot making it easy to avoid or at least react block. And nair is unsafe on shield. If he flat out attacks then sure whatever? But he still had better options than you. You're just limiting your own options for almost no potential payout. Tell me what exactly you get out of actually hitting him? I understand that you're a better and more experienced player than I, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to challenge you when I think you're wrong. If only because it's an opportunity to learn. So bear with me and cite an example or something.

 

[Hylian]

I mean I would need to like draw a diagram or something to explain it and I really don't feel like going into that effort :/. Your nair would never hit his shield, you are retreating not approaching. You full hop backwards, throw rang down and it creates space while giving falco something to deal with. This gives you time to get a bomb out(very hard normally in this match-up though very useful because it becomes a great OoS option). It if does hit it entirely depends on % and how far away he is from you, but I find it one of the only ways to actually establish any semblance of stage control against the character as he shuts down everything else with lasers.

 

[EmptySky00]

Fair enough. I wasn't envisioning it as a retreat option. At the same time Falco doesn't really need to engage you if he doesn't want to so I feel like he can still easily render this relatively ineffective. He can just abuse defenders advantage by forcing you to go at him which is a nuisance. I'm not particularly good at this MU so whatever. I've beaten umbreon's falco a few times but that's about it.

At the same time, though that can be a good way to create an opening to pull out a bomb and keep him at bay, still pew pew pewing away at your green ass, I still don't see it accomplishing much since the potential weak hit rang isn't giving you much for the stage you're forfeiting and the bomb itself can be easily mitigated if he so wills it. Overall I feel like he remains in control of neutral.

 

[Hylian]

Oh, falco is always in control of neutral unless he just got hit against like every character haha. I also play this match-up always on platforms/above falco so this leads into my playstyle well. I just kind of avoid him and then hope he overcommits(they always do) and then I get like a shield drop uair combo started, or a grab or jabx2 dtilt combo and hopefully kill him, and if my punish game is off I lose.

 

[Player -0]

Hylian I'm not sure if you've seen my other posts (or are ignoring them) but were boomerang angles changed at all? I feel like they were. Also why is gliding so derpy. (Will ask this in derp speculation thread).

 

[EmptySky00]

I meant in relation to Link. Obviously. I mean you're not doing anything to leverage a positional advantage and it doesn't really stop him from doing so. I understand it's falco and there's only so much that can be done but still.

 

[Hylian]

Hylian I'm not sure if you've seen my other posts (or are ignoring them) but were boomerang angles changed at all? I feel like they were. Also why is gliding so derpy. (Will ask this in derp speculation thread).

I don't remember honestly LOL.

 

[Player -0]

Is there any way to find out? Also I think you missed my convo message about IC's.

 

[Hylian]

You can just look at the changelog >_>.

 

[Player -0]

Some of the changelog is confusing and/or doesn't seem to explain everything. I'm specifically talking about Link's aerial spin attack again with the horizontal mobility.

 

[Hylian]

Basically that just means his up-b goes less far than it used to.

 

[Player -0]

But my point is that in the changelog it didn't really note that, specifically the lack of mention of horizontal maneuverability.

That's besides my point on if boomerang angles changed though.

 

[Thor]

It turns out I also have massive Donkey Kong issues - I was double eliminated by the tournament winner to take 4th place, due to his DK. I can post vids later, but I was tired so when I accidentally stopped holding shield before the Giant Punch hit [and thus went down 3 stocks to 1], I just quit [a decision I regret, but at the same time, I genuinely believe I would not have learned anything and would not have made a comeback]. I played against some other people as well and can post videos of that stuff.

IMPORTANT: @ Mr.Pickle do you have any advice for the Wario side of the Wario-Link MU? I am either 3-0 or 4-0 [or maybe even more lopsided X-0] with a Wario player who is actually fairly high on the PR and considered good by very many people (but I almost always thrash him]. We played a very close game 1 and a somewhat close game 2 on stream, but he was asking for MU advice and frankly, I had no idea. I knew from the Link side that nair somehow beats shoulder bash, at least early on [lol] and I can also state he is generally a pretty shoulder-bash heavy player, so I will post the video here or in the video forum at some point, since I'd like to be able to give him some advice to pass on [since if Wario is really so good vs Link, I'd like to see it - I've convinced both Wario players that the MU is utter trash due to constantly beating the one Wario and the other Wario seeing these beating and feeling he's worse than the other Wario in the first place (and he's ranked lower, generally performs worse, etc.)].

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Well I can tell you right off the bat that if he's using side b a lot in the matchup he's doing it wrong lol. I'd really want to see the video so I can see what else he's doing and go from there, besides the side b nonsense idk what's going on. I'm going out on a limb here and say he doesn't know how to use wario's movement to get around the projectiles, nor does he know how to edgeguard link with wario, which should be pretty free in that matchup. This is all just speculation as I haven't seen the match yet, but just let me know when you've posted it somewhere and I'll take a look at it.

Btw what's his tag? I might know him off the forums, or he might be in the wario skype group or something.

 

[Wolf_]

Trying to get back into this, it's tough lol

 

[EmptySky00]

Back into Smash? Just invest in a super expensive gaming monitor recording setup then you'll feel obligated to play!

 

[Heero Yuy]

Trying to get back into this, it's tough lol

Welcome back my king.

 

[EmptySky00]

So I noted that Hylian cited M2K's thoughts on 3.02 Link saying he's top 5 or the best in the game as grounds for his nerf.


Now Ike is OP I'm hearing. Going to nerf him next? ****ing annoying.

 

[Hylian]

So I noted that Hylian cited M2K's thoughts on 3.02 Link saying he's top 5 or the best in the game as grounds for his nerf.


Now Ike is OP I'm hearing. Going to nerf him next? ****ing annoying.

Errr what lol. I argued with M2K publicly about link saying he was wrong. I have very little respect for his knee-jerk opinions.

 

[Wolf_]

I think Link is still good, I just need to get good again lol been a long time, school and work took priority

I'm gonna change my tag though if it's possible

 

[Player -0]

Why are you changing your tag? If so what to?

I think Link is decent, could be high tier at tops, not sure about top with some of the changes/nerfs + other characters.

 

[Wolf_]

Back into Smash? Just invest in a super expensive gaming monitor recording setup then you'll feel obligated to play!

I do have a stream setup, a nice one too as far as I can tell, my little brother streamed Call of Duty all the time, I just never cared to figure it out, though I might give it a shot this wednesday

And I really meant like shaking rust off, I haven't played in a tournament in like 6 months, haven't even played friendlies for almost a month now, I went to Smashing Grounds last week as my first comeback, got 5th, not bad considering

Welcome back my king.

Huh wait what!? I'm a king? Aww yea lol

Why are you changing your tag? If so what to?

I think Link is decent, could be high tier at tops, not sure about top with some of the changes/nerfs + other characters.

Cause I had a better choice all along and never realized it, it's one of the many nick-names I've had these past 4 years haha, it's MOTC

And I guess I can't change it so I'll have to make a new account, hope I can find that same Link avatar picture so people will know it's me

 

[Player -0]

Does MOTC stand for something specifically? Idk, Wolf is just something that's already known to people and has a nice ring.

You can find images by searching google by image. I'll do it in a sec.

Edit - Here's a (<-- Click!). You could also go to your profile and drag your picture into a new tab then save that image.

 

[Shadic]

So I noted that Hylian cited M2K's thoughts on 3.02 Link saying he's top 5 or the best in the game as grounds for his nerf.


Now Ike is OP I'm hearing. Going to nerf him next? ****ing annoying.

Are you just making things up, or...?

Not only did M2K have nothing to do with 3.5 Link whatsoever, but Hylian wasn't clamoring to make the 3.5 changes anyways.

 

[Wolf_]

Does MOTC stand for something specifically? Idk, Wolf is just something that's already known to people and has a nice ring.

You can find images by searching google by image. I'll do it in a sec.

Edit - Here's a (<-- Click!). You could also go to your profile and drag your picture into a new tab then save that image.

Yea that's it thanks!

And well, already made a new account lol

Yea it does, some of my friends want to watch me on stream and stuff sometimes and support me so I figured I'd change it to something they'd recognize

Long explanation as to my tag incoming!!:

So I have a friend I've known for over 20 years now, since we were 3 in pre-school, he moved away in 8th grade, lost contact, I saw him once randomly at college, I friend him on facebook, he sends me an invite to a party of his, it's an hour drive from my house but I decide to go anyways since I haven't seen the damn kid in forever.

Get to the house, it's a crazy party with a DJ, laser lights, like 100 people, regardless to say I had fun haha, met up with my friend and the roomates, caught up, and before I knew it it was 5am, I was far too tired to drive home, only place left to sleep was the couch, I figure **** it, better than driving off the side of the road because I'm tired. Wake up, someone left over from the party goes, "look, every party has that guy that just passes out on the couch, it's man on the couch" and the name just stuck from there lol.

Abbreviated to MOTC, I started going up to hang out with my friend a lot, we were best friends before and turns out nothing changed lol still get along great and I'm still chillin with him and all the new friends I made up there today, I became famous at the time, everyone at every party just knew me as that guy who passed out on the couch at the end of the night(there were no open beds otherwise I would've snagged that ****)

People know me who I've never even met just because of the name haha it means a lot now, but I guess I've made a bit of a name with P:M with Wolf too, so I'll just switch back and forth with the tags I guess

 

[Hylian]

You know, you could just buy premium for like $3 and change your name without having to make a new account .

 

[Apollo Ali]

Yea that's it thanks!

And well, already made a new account lol

Yea it does, some of my friends want to watch me on stream and stuff sometimes and support me so I figured I'd change it to something they'd recognize

Long explanation as to my tag incoming!!:

So I have a friend I've known for over 20 years now, since we were 3 in pre-school, he moved away in 8th grade, lost contact, I saw him once randomly at college, I friend him on facebook, he sends me an invite to a party of his, it's an hour drive from my house but I decide to go anyways since I haven't seen the damn kid in forever.

Get to the house, it's a crazy party with a DJ, laser lights, like 100 people, regardless to say I had fun haha, met up with my friend and the roomates, caught up, and before I knew it it was 5am, I was far too tired to drive home, only place left to sleep was the couch, I figure **** it, better than driving off the side of the road because I'm tired. Wake up, someone left over from the party goes, "look, every party has that guy that just passes out on the couch, it's man on the couch" and the name just stuck from there lol.

Abbreviated to MOTC, I started going up to hang out with my friend a lot, we were best friends before and turns out nothing changed lol still get along great and I'm still chillin with him and all the new friends I made up there today, I became famous at the time, everyone at every party just knew me as that guy who passed out on the couch at the end of the night(there were no open beds otherwise I would've snagged that ****)

People know me who I've never even met just because of the name haha it means a lot now, but I guess I've made a bit of a name with P:M with Wolf too, so I'll just switch back and forth with the tags I guess

Maybe you should enter as MOTC | Wolf

EDIT: Actually though both of your tags are hella confusing shaun, lol.

 

[Wolf_]

Maybe you should enter as MOTC | Wolf

EDIT: Actually though both of your tags are hella confusing shaun, lol.

lol could do that, though I might be repping an NWB tag if my boy Nick decides he wants to sponsor me, idk how serious he was about that though haha

You know, you could just buy premium for like $3 and change your name without having to make a new account .

Oh god, yea that sounds better lol I think I'll just do that... crap gotta figure out all the email stuff and facebook syncing and whatnot first, shouldn't have just hit yes on everything it asked me to do lol I'm so impatient

 

[EmptySky00]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70Q5cjLWo3k This match was carnage. I thought I was doing ok until I exploded twice LOL


I wasn't so much ******** about nerfs as I was about M2K's frivolous claims about character balance.

 

[Player -0]

You move at dumb times and run into a lot of stuff. Also you didn't use grab, like at all. He's Booster, z button hype

 

[EmptySky00]

Ya Link's grab is absolute ****. I've deprogrammed myself from using it in most MU's <_< I know all of this. I just found the whole thing funny.

And I only started running into **** at the end when we were laughing about the suicides. It's not that real.

 

[Player -0]

It's still good, especially when you did the Zair on Boozer at 0% and he DI'ed into you, leading into a guaranteed grab with the hand hotbox.

 

[EmptySky00]

It's still good, especially when you did the Zair on Boozer at 0% and he DI'ed into you, leading into a guaranteed grab with the hand hotbox.

I understand that. I was about to come back and say that the grab advice is probably helpful. In most other MUs grab is ass. But I'll use it more in the future. I was mostly trying to outspeed and overwhelm him and keep him out until I got a conversion then ripping him apart from there, which worked marvelously until the suicides and me starting to repeatedly make mistakes. My movement and pressure was still really decent before that point so eff ya'll.

Against Bowser and other people who can do little about it I'll try to use it more.


Edit: I also want to note that Bowser has the effect of distorting the space around him in my mind. I always think his range is less than it is and I have a tendency to overestimate my own range or ability to hit him from my current position due to his size. It's really weird.

 

[Wolf_]

The madness has been settled lol

 

[Beorn]

It's still good, especially when you did the Zair on Boozer at 0% and he DI'ed into you, leading into a guaranteed grab with the hand hotbox.

Grab, jab one, regrab ect is hilarious vs bowser. With a 6 frame jump squat, and hella unsafe moves on shield. This is always your best option. Trying to just hit bowser with something will probably get your **** armored. Then bowser just blows Link up on contact.

 

[Wolf_]

Guys I need help on follow ups on throws, the old ones don't work, I need to re-learn the throw punish game and was wondering if anyone's found any cool stuff yet

 

[Player -0]

D-Throw is still good. If it's not working at low percents then Up Throw -> aerials.

Confused what you mean when you say followups don't work. Haven't played in a bit but eh

 

[EmptySky00]

Throws are significantly less reliable for conversions.

But ya uthrow early dthrow later.