2020 US Presidential Election Discussion

ZaneHitsurugi

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Yes, reactionaries are a problem.

It kind of depends more on your point of view to view a take as dumb in the far left.

There's lots of infighting, but it can kind of be summed up as tankies vs anarchists.

I'm biased and I will say tankies make quite dumb takes. Some anarchists don't even view them as left.
One could argue that advocating for anarchy is a dumb take in and of itself.
I'm not going to speak for anyone else, since I am only me, but when I see things like that it doesn't make me want to join that side.
 

ShinyLegendary

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One could argue that advocating for anarchy is a dumb take in and of itself.
I'm not going to speak for anyone else, since I am only me, but when I see things like that it doesn't make me want to join that side.
I would say the far left is the best option, but only you can decide what you desire.
 
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StrangeKitten

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The majority of Trump supporters can't accept that the Republican party elected a man who is deeply corrupt, impolite, and unfit for office. I think they agree that he is those things deep down. If you pay attention, a lot of what they say sounds like they're convincing themselves of why he's "good". But rather than admit they made a mistake in supporting him, they have crafted a fantasy in which Mr. bragged-about-going-into-the-dressing-rooms-of-underage-girls is somehow this superhero on a crusade to end pedophilia, and is somehow the only one capable of doing so. They've also done other baffling things, like trying to ascribe meaning to COVFEFE, acting like it was some secret code, when it's obvious that it was typo. There's no shame in admitting Trump made a typo, yet to them, Dear Leader can do no wrong.

I'm sure there are loonies on the left as well, but boy is the Trump-supporting* right looking crazier and crazier by the day.

*Trump-supporting right, not the entire right. Though I'd be lying if I said I liked the right at all. Their mindset has caused me much grief and suffering that I probably wouldn't have gone through otherwise.
 

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Trump is not a statesman or diplomat. Two things the potus should be. He wanted to win and he knew the best way was to tap into the seething animosity many Americans still feel towards minorities. After 8 years with Obama at the helm it comes as no surprise that much of America got behind the idea that America wasn't what it used to be and that it should be.

At least that's the "reality" of it.

But if these protests and demonstrations clearly illustrate its not the truth. The truth is that there isn't an easy way to "fix" America without addressing the diversity issue. This is to say all Americans deserve to live in peace, without fear of being met with hostility simply because of their skin color.
 

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While it's true we don't enjoy direct representation our system is not the problem. The problem stems from capitalism... As in money buys power and the right to decide the fate of the masses. Our system doesn't work because it relies heavily on the financial burden of the lower to middle class. And consumerism establishes a domino effect in which the majority of Americans are teetering between living comfortably and starving to death. Debt is another huge factor. Without it the entire global economy fails and at the present America debt is huge. What America needs is to focus its spending better. People sure, but tax dollars definitely. Our infrastructure is failing because so much money has been misaligned to support idiotic ideas like a border wall or trying to beat the Russians in advanced warfare or battling China for economic advantages. Let's face it, until we start truly taking care of ourselves things like this Pandemic will cripple us every time they happen. It's absurd.
 

ShinyLegendary

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While it's true we don't enjoy direct representation our system is not the problem. The problem stems from capitalism... As in money buys power and the right to decide the fate of the masses. Our system doesn't work because it relies heavily on the financial burden of the lower to middle class. And consumerism establishes a domino effect in which the majority of Americans are teetering between living comfortably and starving to death. Debt is another huge factor. Without it the entire global economy fails and at the present America debt is huge. What America needs is to focus its spending better. People sure, but tax dollars definitely. Our infrastructure is failing because so much money has been misaligned to support idiotic ideas like a border wall or trying to beat the Russians in advanced warfare or battling China for economic advantages. Let's face it, until we start truly taking care of ourselves things like this Pandemic will cripple us every time they happen. It's absurd.
What a lot of people need to learn is reforming isn't going to destroy the roots of the issues of capitalism. People admire the Nordic countries, but the roots of capitalism are still there. People will immediately point to the failure of the Soviet Union as a reason why socialism doesn't work, but in my opinion, the Soviet Union was state-capitalist. We can debate if it was trying to transition to socialism or not, but socialism works. There is many evidence to prove it actually works. The issue with the Soviet Union was the reactionary state harmed it. I would like to point out the reason why the Nordic countries are able to be a social democracy is because the Soviet Union was next to its door, threatening the elite to turn the country into a social democracy. Social democracies don't work, because look at Europe. The right is rising in there, and slowly these policies are going to wither away. The destruction of capitalism and a new socialist or anarchist system is the only way we will be able to thrive and destroy fascism. Voting isn't going to kill fascism in America at all.

Also going to leave this image here too.
1600875250846.png
 

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Sucumbio

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I'm not so sure. Even if he "loses" he may yet have a... Trump card up his sleeve. Heh
 

ShinyLegendary

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I have been considering moving to Scandinavia when I am a bit older, because social democracy has its flaws, but it is a thousand times better than American capitalism.

If Trump wins, things will get worse, and if Biden wins, then it could easily pave the way for another fascist president.

Advice?
 

Goomboi

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I have been considering moving to Scandinavia when I am a bit older, because social democracy has its flaws, but it is a thousand times better than American capitalism.

If Trump wins, things will get worse, and if Biden wins, then it could easily pave the way for another fascist president.

Advice?
Move where your happy.
 

ShinyLegendary

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Move where your happy.
Hmm, that sounds like a good idea, but I had other people who I was close with that told me I should not move and fight with my people in America.

I am conflicted. I want to move to Scandinavia, because I would rather live in a social democratic state than America's ****ty state, but at the same time, I would feel guilty about the people who are fighting like hell to make change in America.

Also, the first debate is arriving later today. Honestly, considering both Trump and Biden have cognitive issues, this can go either way.
 

ZaneHitsurugi

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I have been considering moving to Scandinavia when I am a bit older, because social democracy has its flaws, but it is a thousand times better than American capitalism.

If Trump wins, things will get worse, and if Biden wins, then it could easily pave the way for another fascist president.

Advice?
I have a feeling that you'll be back.
 

Aurane

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I saw that arguement Trump had about being interruptive. Nothing changes.

Two monkeys fighting over big banana 2020. 🙈🙉🙊
 

ShinyLegendary

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Alright, here are my thoughts about the debate.

Trump was just insufferable. Biden had some blunders. He took Trump's bait way too much.

I would say Joe Biden won this debate.
 

TheCJBrine

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Both candidates are terrible people.

Biden seems to have better policies, though. Our government’s choices in who to lead us and how to handle things has already made me sad, plus both sides’ arrogance, media etc. just continuing to falsify the “United” part of our country’s name (this is focusing mainly on the government’s actions but the people are very much a part of it as well), and Trump winning would make me feel sadder, but oh well. Maybe we’ll turn out okay...
 

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On the bright side there is a new SNL this week. lol


But yeah, these debates don't matter to me as I'm not voting strictly for policy and the bar is so at this point thanks to Trump's yelling and the media's quest for ratings. Just disrupting the GOP's minority hold is enough to get me out to vote, as brief as it'll probably be. Even if Biden somehow wins, I don't see anything but a lame duck presidency unless Dems take back the Senate, hold the House, and then cross their fingers the 6-3 Supreme Court doesn't strike everything down. It's honestly hard to understate just how bad of a loss the Dems have had the past decade (two if we want to get technical, but 2011 gerrymandering stands out the most to me).

Granted they need to focus on actually winning first, but I really hope the first thing Dems do is push for D.C. Statehood (also John Lewis/voting rights). It won't solve everything, but it's extremely hard to undo, will change some of the power in the Senate to less reflect a minority, and give millions of people actual representation.

2020 is going to be the make/break year for any progressive policies after the past decade of minority rule. I honestly don't believe any meaningful legislation will be able to occur again should there not be a blue wave this year. Another decade of GOP gerrymandering and voter suppression will set in stone the current direction of the country. If you think the GOP is shameless in their use of power right now, a post-impeachment re-elected Trump should probably make you crap your pants.

Both candidates are terrible people.
You kind of have to be to get anywhere in politics. Some degree of narcissism is a must.
 

TheCJBrine

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You kind of have to be to get anywhere in politics. Some degree of narcissism is a must.
I guess you’re right, but it’s not just that; from what I can tell, Biden is a pedophile, and Trump is a misogynist and racist.

Though someone gave me what I thought was good advice: you’re not really supporting the person, but what they’ll do for the country. Which makes me feel better about voting for one, but still...

I guess that advice is obvious though now that I think about it, since they are the presidential candidates and their issues as people won’t necessarily reflect their government actions. I guess I just focused a lot on justice when realistically the government doesn’t care that much about that...
 
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I guess you’re right, but it’s not just that; from what I can tell, Biden is a pedophile, and Trump is a misogynist and racist.

Though someone gave me what I thought was good advice: you’re not really supporting the person, but what they’ll do for the country. Which makes me feel better about voting for one, but still...

I guess that advice is obvious though now that I think about it, since they are the presidential candidates and their issues as people won’t necessarily reflect their government actions. I guess I just focused a lot on justice when realistically the government doesn’t care that much about that...
Presidents are generally graded on multiple issues. If you go back to the 90s for example, people had terrible views of Clinton's character for good reason, but mostly solid views of his job performance. Or at least's it was an example used by Professor in my political research course back in college that stood out to me. As much as I want to punch whoever says "the lesser of two evils" I can't deny there's some truth to it, but I ultimately think back to an NPR commentator I listened to years ago point out that having less evil in the world isn't a bad thing.

More or less. A lot of people I've met liked Warren & Bernie a lot but chose not to vote for them due to fears of job performance. A co-worker of mine even make a joke about Bernie being a bigger liar than Trump if he thinks he'll be able to get anything done in office with his agenda.

My biggest fear with a Biden administration is his history where it relates to nativity. I have no doubt that he won't appoint qualified people to positions (at least most of the time, Obama had some bad picks too), but being a hardened Senator I think he'll be too gullible or stubborn to believe that he can cut deals with the GOP who's voter based rewarded them in 2010 by stonewalling Obama out of the gate. Given we don't have to worry about gerrymandering as much come 2022, I don't think it'll be as bad as 2010, but if Biden is not careful the GOP will continue their cycle of power real quickly.

Haven't heard enough in regards to the pedophile accusations. IDK if that's a testament to the accusations themselves, the media, Trump removing the bar outright, or general ignorance on my behalf, probably all the above. If there are some articles covering those accusations anyone is free to PM them to me.
 

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I guess you’re right, but it’s not just that; from what I can tell, Biden is a pedophile, and Trump is a misogynist and racist.
The scary part is that they both share a lot of those bad things im common.

Biden and Trump are BOTH pedophiles, racist, rapists, misogynist, war criminals.

Both of their records are abysmal. I just can't see myself voting at all.

More or less. A lot of people I've met liked Warren & Bernie a lot but chose not to vote for them due to fears of job performance. A co-worker of mine even make a joke about Bernie being a bigger liar than Trump if he thinks he'll be able to get anything done in office with his agenda.
That is bull****, that shouldn't be the case at all.

Speaking of Bernie Sanders, if only he won the nomination. He would have gone against Trump a lot better than Biden right now. Also Bernie Sanders actually has some damn good policies. Biden has basically close to nothing. He wants to turn America back into the Obama-days, and the Obama days weren't pretty either. Bernie Sanders was on fire. Then boom, South Carolina and Super Tuesday.

Now that Biden and Trump are competing with each other, I think Biden is in a better position right now. I would say Biden won the debate, but not by much. Biden just needs to focus harder on policy to have a better chance against Trump. Right now, due to how many times Trump puts his foot in his mouth, I would say Biden is in the lead in this race. However, Biden has an enthusiasm issue, and better policies will help that, but he never does it. What is worse is if Biden loses, liberals are immediately going to pin the blame on nonvoters. It has been a proven fact that most Jill Stein voters would have not voted if she was out, plus Libertarians. So if Jill Stein was out, Trump would have still won 2016. Either way, I predict Biden will win, but we will see.

If Biden wins, he will be better than Trump overall. However, he will still be quite horrible. What worries me is that liberals are going to be silent if Biden commits war crimes, just like they were when Obama committed war crimes in Africa and the Middle East. Another annoying part is Biden nominated a ****ing pig for vice president, despite ALL of the protests against pigs. After Biden or Trump, we NEED to fight harder. We just can't have a repeat of Trump and Biden. Liberals are just going to go back to sleep and pretend they live in a utopia when Biden is elected. It is so frustrating.

The debate on October 7 will be quite interesting.
 

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I know it shouldn't matter to me but it kinda does with friends, family there and being from one of the America's closest allies.

It was crazy to watch and I was expecting one to walk off stage at one point. I'm glad where I live I don't have to worry as much about places like London and all that down there.
 

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I know it shouldn't matter to me but it kinda does with friends, family there and being from one of the America's closest allies.

It was crazy to watch and I was expecting one to walk off stage at one point. I'm glad where I live I don't have to worry as much about places like London and all that down there.
I kind of wish I was at Scandinavia right now. I am aware it has flaws, but at least it isn't as horrible as America is right now.
 

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I think each candidate had strong points in regards to their primary fields of "expertise", where Trump utilizes in financial issues while Biden definitely blazes through his opponent in social issues.

Trump constantly interrupting is just a repeat of what he did the last term, and I couldn't really pay attention to Biden when he's interrupted. Doesn't mean I automatically agree with everything Trump said by default though, mans literally deflected saying yes or no to the question about tackling white supremacist groups, and Biden made an excellent point on his ignorance.

However, Biden also had some lackluster moments like when his sons got called out... and he lied. :214: But both of them lied or misdirected, that's just the first thing that came to my head because I and my friends looked it up ASAP when it claimed it. Honestly didn't know Biden had multiple kids... or a kid.

I'm still not voting on either, I hate both of their guts, and even the third parties are more **** in a laughable way. I don't want to "change" America for someone else's agenda if I can choose not to. Sometimes my moral compass just doesn't agree with some of you dudes and your factions, and that's fine, I just don't like the action of voting thrown in my face when I don't want to in the first place.

Basically this image.

1601468278924.png
 

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Both candidates are idiots. I am not sure who's gonna win, but most Christians are going to vote for trump (mind you I am a Christian but I strongly dislike both sides, I also can't vote.) That is all.
 

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Going to have to step in as a mod here and ask that schadenfreude, especially to this degree, be kept out of this thread/site.

If you want to discuss how COVID will effect the election and policy going forward that's fine, but wishing ill upon others is in obvious bad taste and doesn't belong even in board dedicated to discussing tough subjects.
 

ShinyLegendary

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Remember how during the last election people said "Well Trump is bad, but Hillary is judt as bad/worse"?

Remember how since then Trump has
  • Held the government hostage over a stupid wall he initially said America wouldn't even have to pay for, holding paychecks back from government workers who were dependant on them.
  • Downplayed and spread misinformation over Covid-19 while also trying to reopen "the economy", costing countless American lives and now potentially his own.
  • Added fuel to the fire during the BLM protests by threatening a military response and lumping peaceful protestors in with rioters when he should have been trying to deescalate the situation.

If voting Biden is elder abuse then voting Trump is country abuse. I don't have confidence in Biden as a leader but I'll take my chances with him.

Sorry, I try to avoid getting too opinionated about politics around here but 2020 has been a looooong year. The spoiler tag is for people who don't like it when politics is discussed here.
I am barely too young to vote, but if I was old enough, I wouldn't vote for anyone. That is just my opinion.

I understand and respect your sentiment. I believe Biden would be better at handling COVID-19 than Trump. It is just sad that the main opposition to Trump is Trump but blue.

Also voting for Biden isn't elder abuse, after all, Biden did get himself into being nominated.
 
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Sucumbio

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I hated Hilary. Trump... It wasn't hate it was more of a "really, tho? REALLY? You're Fired!" But I knew both were bad choices. This election I'm not too sure Biden is necessarily a bad choice. What he lacks is the fresh perspective we need.
 

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ShinyLegendary

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Biden is destroying Trump right now. He is even beating him in swing states.

My prediction was that Biden was going to win, and I feel like I am correct.

What scares me is that Biden and the Democrats are going to view this as an excuse to keep the status quo going. They are basically the only oppositional party to the Republicans, so they don't have to earn our votes, sadly.

As trash as Biden is right now, the only attacks Republicans now offer is, "BIDEN IS A SOCIALIST!!!!!", which Biden keeps on insisting is false.

Trump's last chance was the debates, and he failed them horribly. Expect Biden to be president soon.
 

Melonsismyusername

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Biden is destroying Trump right now. He is even beating him in swing states.

My prediction was that Biden was going to win, and I feel like I am correct.

What scares me is that Biden and the Democrats are going to view this as an excuse to keep the status quo going. They are basically the only oppositional party to the Republicans, so they don't have to earn our votes, sadly.

As trash as Biden is right now, the only attacks Republicans now offer is, "BIDEN IS A SOCIALIST!!!!!", which Biden keeps on insisting is false.

Trump's last chance was the debates, and he failed them horribly. Expect Biden to be president soon.
yep, pretty much.
 

ShinyLegendary

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Did all of you see the Noam Chomsky debate?

You can disagree or agree with Chomsky, but I think we can all agree Chomsky destroyed Hexas in the debate. How can you win an argument against Noam Chomsky?
 
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