Rizen
Smash Legend
Presidential Election Results 2020: Biden Wins (Published 2020)
Joseph R. Biden Jr. was elected the 46th president of the United States. See full results and maps from the 2020 presidential election.
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2020 US Presidential Election Discussion
- Thread starter remilia
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I am just happy this election is basically over.Not that it matters anymore but those naughty states AZ, GA, NC and AK still haven't finished counting their votes. I'm so happy Biden won PA so we aren't still holding our breath waiting for them.Presidential Election Results 2020: Biden Wins (Published 2020)
Joseph R. Biden Jr. was elected the 46th president of the United States. See full results and maps from the 2020 presidential election.www.nytimes.com
Not too happy with Biden, but he's better than Trump.
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Sabrewulf238
Smash Hero
Me too. For a good part of last week I felt frozen in place wondering if America was really actually going to reelect Trump.
Still boggles my mind how he got over 71 million votes. The American people definitely need to be cautious going forward, Trump might be gone but the people who wanted to put him in power again are still there.
StoicPhantom
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Right, let's not forget that Democrats invented a conspiracy that's persisted over the last four years about Russia swinging things in Trump's favor. Not only has this been thoroughly debunked, but Russia and their shenanigans are nowhere to be seen in what was just recently a very close election. The same thing is happening here where Trump supporters being overly smug and confident in the same way Democrats were in 2016 are unable to come to terms with the results like the Dems in 2016. Ultimately showing that they aren't really that much different than each other at the end of the day.
That goes for any of these rather silly coup narratives too. America has had a tradition of pardoning corrupt Presidents since Nixon and I fully expect a similar thing to happen with Trump. Trump is ultimately far too important to the media and the continuation for certain narratives and much like previous pardons, any investigation into his dealings as President will lead to very inconvenient inquiries for some powerful groups.
Kamala Harris explaining her views on the US/Israel relationship and the broader US policy toward the Middle East, to AIPAC in 2017: pic.twitter.com/YZu4UMxVVm
— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) January 23, 2019
Massive financial and bank deregulation
Biden's efforts have led to things like the subprime mortgage crisis and subsequent Wall Street crash in 2008, caused a major bubble surrounding student loan debt by making it impossible to file bankruptcy, and helped repeal Glass-Steagall which resulted in a major finance consolidation that led to such a fragile interconnected system.
It is not inaccurate to say that Biden is one of the main causes of the current economy.
Central figure in the formation of modern systemic racism/slavery and a police state
Biden has a major authoritarian streak and has worked to form a police state that would make even places like Brazil balk. The criminal justice system we see today, whereby corrupt PDs harvest various black and brown people from poor communities to be forced to work for pennies with no benefits in prisons contracted with various private corporations and interests aka prison slavery, was born from various legislation Biden was a part of.
It is absolutely hilarious that the people currently protesting this system were the ones who voted in the guy who was instrumental in creating it.
Advocating for Social Security and Welfare cuts
What it says on the tin. As if he hadn't taken enough protections away from people, Biden has been attempting to destroy what remains of the social safety net for a very long time.
Biden is among the worst of the corporate Democrats and really is a horrible human being in general. His entire career has been about destroying what other people have created and many of our institutions and protections have been destroyed by him and the rest of the Clinton (third way) Democrats. There's a reason why the GOP has largely remained silent in the current election aftermath: Biden was the main liaison between corporate Dems and the GOP.
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Inflammatory
Not to mention that Biden himself heavily supported the atrocious Iraq War. He called for a war in Iraq since 1998.
And Harris put trans women in men's prisons, too.
And **** Israel, me and my homies hate Israel.
One more thing I want to say is that to no one's surprise: Biden will continue the American war machine and imperialism.
Biden's Worldview Calls For U.S. To Be Center Stage In Global Affairs
President Trump's "America First" foreign policy meant a reduced U.S. role in the world. Joe Biden wants the U.S. to show more global leadership, and his focus will be rebuilding alliances.
www.npr.org
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Mind the cussin' please.
I will respond soon gotta get to work!
____
In the meantime I'm impatient so here is an answer to a question somewhat related to the discussion.
Question : Why do Progressives hate the 3rd Way?
Answer :
Can no one speak of these topics without such often times venomous language? Such passion.
Bernie has promised to take that passion and focus it. I think Biden will let him.
I will respond soon gotta get to work!
Lots to digest I'll parse it tonight.
____
In the meantime I'm impatient so here is an answer to a question somewhat related to the discussion.
Question : Why do Progressives hate the 3rd Way?
Answer :
Can no one speak of these topics without such often times venomous language? Such passion.
Bernie has promised to take that passion and focus it. I think Biden will let him.
StrangeKitten
Smash Lord
Sorry, had some irl stuff going on. Seems others have already given a lot of the reasons. Basically, he'll be another Obama. Good for the left here and there, but keeping us in the wars and generally in favor of corporate interests. It's a lot better than what Republicans offer, but still far from true leftism.
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Is this even true? The GOP-led Senate Select Intelligence Committee did an investigation and found that Russia's government did indeed engage in "an aggressive, multi-faceted effort to influence, or attempt to influence, the outcome of the 2016 presidential election." What they did not conclude is if there was collusion/cooperation between the Trump campaign and Russia.
In contrast, Mueller's Special Investigation on the same topic (even in its highly redacted form) produced a good amount of evidence of that cooperation, however did not feel they could meet the burden of proof necessary to pursue charges of criminal conspiracy (to my knowledge, there doesn't exist a charge for "collusion"). The two investigations corroborate that Russia's government attempted to influence the result of the election in Trump's favor.
What remains to be seen is if they did so to the 2020 election. You're correct that it seems like no one's bringing it up as a possibility at the moment, which is rather odd. Instead, a great deal of the population is in a fury about something entirely domestic; our election process and the (entirely unfounded, at the moment) possibility that the vote counts themselves were manipulated.
StoicPhantom
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I'll give you a real answer to that and why your wife is wrong.
First and foremost we need to answer the question of what Neoliberalism is.
Neoliberalism is put simply a movement towards complete market deregulation with a cover of liberalism. Things like arguing for opening up the labor market to globalism on the basis that allowing our corporations to exploit the laxity of third world labor laws would help lift them out of poverty. And while that is true to a certain extent, what ended up happening is that they've destroyed local labor markets and heavily exploited and polluted those countries in exchange for making the powerful even richer.
Neoliberalism ultimately employs liberal aesthetics as justification for exploitation and market deregulation. The "Free Market" is traditionally considered a Republican thing but is primarily carried out by Democrats. Most of our important protections and regulations were undone by Democrats with things like NAFTA opening up the labor markets (and destroying the Midwestern economy) and the repeal of things like Glass-Steagall (allowing consolidation and monopolization of finance and banking which subsequently led to the Wall Street crash of 2008), among many other things.
Capitalism is obsessed with the idea of endless growth and profits. The planet having finite resources makes that a fantasy, but that doesn't stop Capitalism from trying. In order to have endless growth you must continue increasing your production capacity. That requires an equivalent amount of increase in resources and labor. A closed market means you are limited to domestic capacity of resources and labor.
Enter Neoliberalism. It's not so much that it is a more liberal take on markets, so much as it is the complete absence of one. There is no desire for any sort of structure or regulation in Neoliberalism, so markets manifest as an American Libertarian's wet dream. And that permissiveness to the point of throwing all caution to the wind is ideal for Capitalism as it means foreign markets are now on the table, or rather, foreign resources and labor are on the table.
That's why Neoliberalism cucked Conservatism as Capitalism's favorite steward. The permissiveness of Neoliberalism has allowed Capitalism to exploit the labor and resources of other countries, done through globalizing the labor supply and endless war and imperialism, while providing moral cover by wrapping it in liberal aesthetics. Conservatism's closed and regulated markets are ultimately too constraining for what Capitalism wants to do. Thus the cultural aesthetics of Conservatism that have dominated America for decades have very quickly turned to the diversity and permissiveness of liberalism in just a matter of years.
But, as has become so thoroughly evident, these liberal aesthetics are superficial. What's actually happened is not applying left-wing values to Capitalism, but simply broadening who can exploited and sharing the suffering equally among the world. Capitalism is inherently exploitive and Conservative Capitalism kept that exploitation to a few specific groups (non-white nations through white supremacy). Neoliberalism keeps the white supremacy and spreads that exploitation to everyone, including the domestic. Thus everyone but the small few Neoliberalism serves loses and life becomes a zero sum game.
Because ultimately Neoliberalism is not an ideology. It is the shell, or perhaps the absence of one. Ideology simply put is a collection of principles and values on a particular framework. Conservatism is an ideology centered around tradition, protectionism, and uniting people under a shared mythos (religion, culture, etc). Liberalism is an ideology centered around freedom through secularism, individuality, and uniting people under universal needs and mutual interests. Both fall under a broader left/right spectrum that has various shades of their respective lenses.
Neoliberalism is completely outside of that. It has no want or need of principles, morals, or values nor does it fight for causes or beliefs; because at its core Neoliberalism is a movement for career advancement and self-promotion. You see this in their rhetoric towards Progressives over their "purity tests" and "unwillingness to compromise" and general perceived dogma. What the criticisms ultimately boil down to is that morals, principles, and values are merely obstacles in the way of their goals and that the end justifies the means, so they ultimately resent Progressives for holding them to their self-professed beliefs in a way that doesn't let Neoliberals drop them as it becomes inconvenient to their careerism.
Neoliberalism is ultimately a void of ideology, morals, principles, values, causes, and really anything that humans use to relate to society and the world around them. It is fundamentally anti-human and rejects the concept of politics itself. It is completely incoherent in what it professes to stand for or be about (ask Democratic leadership what they stand for and they are unable to answer) and it has yet to actually produce anything or prove that it is anything other than an abstraction that is completely disconnected from any actual relation to movements or society.
Enter Biden and "Third Way" Democrats. They are the original carriers and harbingers of Neoliberalism which has completely infected the entire Democrat body. As you'll hopefully be seeing soon, Biden's entire career has been about this exact type of careerism and self-promotion at the expense of our institutions. Biden has no want or desire to engage in ideology or be bound by principles or morals, has no interest in furthering any cause outside of his own self-promotion, and his entire career has been a corporate stooge entirely because he views politics as a vehicle for self-promotion and not for ideological causes.
That's why Democrats suffer so much whiplash: Neoliberals aren't tied to any one cause or ideology and they just go with the political trends of the time. That's how our "lesser of two evils" can go from being very Law and Order authoritarians in the 80s-90s with their crime bills and "super predators" to religious moral panicking over gays with the Defense of Marriage Act and the like in the 90s-00s to progressive diverse reverse-racists that want to eradicate the patriarchy and white supremacy even though they just elected Joe Biden out of dozens of gay female black brown and Jew candidates in Current Year. And no doubt they will pivot back to Law and Order when the social unrest ramps up in the coming years.
Biden and his ilk are political and economic idiots in the truest sense of the word. They don't know or care what the consequence of their actions may lead to. Their entire reason for being is to dismantle the various regulations and institutions that protect markets, and subsequently people, from runaway Capitalism. That's why any retrospective analysis of their legislation and careers leads to a lot of "That was a mistake" and "I didn't know that would happen"; they don't carefully plan or think out the potential consequences of their actions, they just lie and bull**** until their agenda is completed.
Because they are employed by Capital to do these things. There job begins and ends with dismantling whatever they are payed to dismantle. Whether that negatively affects the Party they are affiliated with, whether that promotes or furthers whatever ideology they allegedly ascribe to, whether or not you as their constituent desires it, is of no concern. They are rewarded handsomely for doing it and can look to a cushy career as a lobbyist on successful completion and exit from politics.
They are the political equivalent of the corporate "Yes Man" that lies and bull****s his way to positions he is unqualified to handle at the expense of his colleagues. He has no pride in his work or desire to make things easier for his colleagues. He just cynically climbs the corporate ladder for personal gain. He won't produce anything, his presence and lack of ability is dangerous and destructive, and will often be the one responsible for major problems that arise.
Where your wife goes wrong is thinking that Neoliberalism is a serious ideology that can be influenced or reasoned with and that Neoliberals care in the slightest. It's not an actual ideology or movement so much as a vehicle for self-promotion and career advancement. Your wife does not understand how power actually works, who she is supporting, what left-wing ideology actually is, or really even the basics of politics.
Yes, it is true that Progressive policies are untenable. That is by design. The way the American Government functions is that massive amounts of corporate money are thrown around and are ultimately what makes the whole thing tick. That's because everyone's political career is based on whether they can get a certain amount of the vote which means they must have a platform and the ability to influence people. The way to rig a democracy (not that America really is one) is to manipulate the public in your favor (or rig the system from the start in America's case).
While your wife may view Progressives as petulant the truth is that nobody likes Neoliberalism. That's why everybody constructs these grand narratives of epic struggles of Good and Evil between Literal Fascists and Actual Communists. Nobody can really contend with the idea that their beliefs and struggles are cynically manipulated by smoke-filled rooms thronged with business men that could not care less about ideology or its struggle. The idea that white supremacy is largely carried out by the diverse and minority friendly Democrats that hold no ill will towards non-whites or really care about furthering the white race (it's just business) or that female or minority representation in popular media is a product of cynical marketing strategies funded by old straight white men that sexually harass their secretaries is ultimately too much to bear for ordinary people that need something to believe in.
Neoliberalism is to politics what nihilism is to a rational mind. Maybe it is the truth of the universe but it is fundamentally poison to humanity. Neoliberalism is universally reviled among all ideologies, from die hard Communists to NeoNazis. Nobody likes Neoliberalism, not even its apologists and those who benefit from it, so they have to construct their own rationalizations and fantasies to cope with it dominating contemporary politics.
Biden and Trump are fundamentally the same type of self-promoting ignoramuses that have no understanding or desire to understand politics. The sole difference between them is that Trump is incompetent and widely disliked in politics where Biden is not. Thus Trump would have been the stagnant candidate to Biden's accelerationism, not the other way around as the narrative dictates. But because they are the exact same type of Neoliberal/Neoconservative types that everyone hates; a narrative is then constructed around this being an epic battle for Democracy against Fascism/Globalism as a coping mechanism.
And the corporate media is more than happy to facilitate these fantasies as long as they are handsomely paid with benefits.
And that's why, as Neoliberals admit, they will never support Progressives or their policies. That corporate money and symbiosis with the media is what allows universally reviled Neoliberals to win popularity contests. The sheer amount of spin, gaslighting, and general propaganda that it takes to make the unlikable likeable is a product of Neoliberal deregulation that allowed the media to consolidate combined with massive amounts of money it takes to run such a propaganda machine. Biden is a corporate product and commodity.
Which means that Neoliberal politicians are dependent on corporations to even have a career in politics. If they step out of line and support Progressives and their policies then that money dries up and they will have flushed their careers down the toilet. Which effectively means that Neoliberals, whose entire reason for being is self-promotion and career climbing, will be committing suicide.
Which then begs the question that is ignored or rationalized by Neoliberal apologists of why Progressives or the left in general should support Neoliberalism when it runs counter to the left by design? They won't ever be able to support these policies or groups, no matter how popular or desired they are, because of their corporate benefactors. They also fundamentally reject ideology or being held to their professed beliefs and principles.
Once you parse through all the propaganda there ultimately is no reason for this unity to happen and all the rationalizations for doing so are completely contradictory and incoherent. Why would an alleged anti-racist vote for the architect of modern systemic racism against a complete newcomer to politics that hasn't even come close to the level of white supremacy the Democrats have? The current anti-racist protests aren't being against anything Donald Trump has done, but what Biden created. That's before getting into the what-if scenario had Michael "Stop and Frisk; Actually a Republican" Bloomberg not made the mistake of showing up to the debate.
It's completely incoherent, but that's ultimately indicative of the success of corporate propaganda. And why Neoliberals are completely tied to the system to the point that they will never engage in the anti-system politics of Progressives.
And it's this lack of understanding that leads your wife to say silly things like:
"So, white, male, cisgender, heterosexual Progressives hate the Third Way because they've never had to worry about losing their rights so they don't care that Third Way strategy is how Civil Rights get codified."
I'm waiting for the final vote tally for my full analysis and commentary, but all current showing suggest that the Democrats had a major exodus of working class minorities and an influx of rich white suburbanites that have been voting R since Reagan. Meaning Biden squeaked by on white males that have never had to worry about losing their rights. That's before getting into how Bernie's base was largely comprised of those Hispanics that went for Trump among other minorities.
And that's before getting into how the Civil Rights movement won because they were so uncompromising. Had they taken the early deals of fair bus seating in exchange for keeping other things segregated then they would have lost, because you can't be considered equal when you're not actually equal.
"The demand put in the platform wouldn't have gotten in there is someone hadn't gone balls out leftist."
Which demand exactly? The extremely popular M4A or Marijuana legalization that never made it in? Or was it the no taking fossil fuel money that's been quietly dropped? Have Democrats finally reconciled their foreign policy (war is one of the largest contributers to climate change) with their climate policy?
The last "balls out" leftist we had (FDR) was voted in so much that they had create term limits. The closest balls out leftist we had currently was universally popular among every base but Neoliberals.
"I will support a Third Way Democrat over a socialist any day."
This is probably the most case in point thing she could give me with respect to neoliberalism. She would rather support a fake ideology over "socialist" even though the Progressive group she identifies with is basically code for socialism on some goofy basis of "pragmatism" which ultimately is Neoliberal propaganda. She should perhaps look into what these "Third Way Democrats" have done with respect to Progressive power in the Democratic Party and the minorities she champions.
Your wife is not an "fbomb Progressive", leftist, or some sort of West Wing wannabe. She's a Neoliberal that wears radical left aesthetics. Like most of whom self-identify as "left" "Marxist" "Communist" "Socialist" or "Anarchist" nowadays.
Your beliefs are defined by your adherence to them. Principles are called that because you aren't supposed to compromise on them. Dropping them the moment they became inconvenient means you don't actually believe in them irrespective of how they relate to your identity and/or self-interest/self-promotion. You don't believe in "Socialism" "Leftism" or whatever else because it's trendy to do so in your circles or because they're easy to further and materialize. They are fundamentally a part of your worldview and instinctual beliefs.
What your wife is advocating is essentially "You must support your enemies that have dedicated themselves to destroying everything you believe in order to further your beliefs". That's an oxymoron on the level of "We had to destroy the village in order to save it" and "We had to start the war in order to prevent" that were common rationalizations against anti-war sentiment. It's self-serving for those who are trying to get you to go against your own interests, but it isn't actually useful for anything else.
The tragedy of modern politics is that people merely wear these things as brands and aesthetics. That's why we're locked in the constant cycle of whataboutism and hypocrisy as one group that is wiling to drop their beliefs accuses the other group that is willing to drop their beliefs of dropping their beliefs. Because neither person wants to deal with the inconvenience of principles when it hinders their personal advancement, so modern politics is one long cycle of hypocrisy, cynicism, and nihilism.
Biden and the rest of the Neoliberal Democrats are not "different shades of left" "Progressives that want the same things but want to get there slower (for some reason)" or "centrists". They aren't even on the political spectrum. They view and use politics as a vehicle for their own careerism and self-promotion, not for furthering ideology or effecting any political movement. Whatever is most convenient for them at the time is what they "believe".
And so too are Progressives not the moralizers and purity testers. There is ultimately no functional difference from consequences born of ignorance and consequences born of malice. Hanlon's Razor is more or less referring to this. There isn't much difference between Mitch's desire to destroy Social Security out of maliciousness towards the poor and Biden's desire to do so out of willful ignorance and deference to those paying him to do so.
The only way to differentiate them is to attempt to apply a morality argument to maliciousness versus willful ignorance. Mitch is the "greater of two evils" because he is doing something knowing full well the harms it brings and Biden is the "lesser of two evils" because he's acting out of ignorance and thus all of his consequences are "mistakes" and all of Mitch's consequences are "evil".
Thus Neoliberalism is dependent on vapid moralizing because it has no actual ties or relations to the left. The entire Democrat strategy is built on the lesser of two evils or what is actually the "narcissism of small differences" precisely because they are unwilling to enact left-wing policies or further left-wing ideals. Progressives and Neoliberals are fundamentally different in ideology. Neoliberals and Neoconservatives are the exact same thing with minor aesthetic differences.
And that goes for Biden and Trump as well. They both are the exact same willfully ignorant (of politics) candidates that are using politics to further their own self-promotion and careerism. The only difference is that Trump is incompetent at building rapport within the system while Biden is very experienced at it. Thus Trump was actually the stagnation candidate that people were making Biden out to be while Biden is the acceleration candidate people were making Trump out to be.
Failure on the left's part to see through Trump paying lip service to partisan politics he clearly doesn't believe in is a sign that they see politics as brands and aesthetics. The actual smart thing for Progressives to do would be to work in hand with right-wing populists to overthrow the current system that they both are working towards doing. But because they both can only see politics as brands and aesthetics, they refuse to work with each other and instead attempt to bargain with Neocons and Neolibs. Of whom happily work in hand with each other to destroy populism on both sides.
Because the proletariat in America has no semblance of class consciousness while the bourgeoisie do. And that's why the establishment wins.
StoicPhantom
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Forgive me for the double post as I want to keep this separate from the behemoth I've just posted and I narrowly missed posting before you did.
I may have been a little vague in what I said, but I meant in that it's been pretty thoroughly debunked that Russia swung the election from what was supposed to be a Clinton win to a Trump one, thereby rendering the election illegitimate. Israel is a prime example that other countries attempt to influence and manipulate US politics all the time and they are probably the most influential in both parties. I'm more speaking that if you removed Russia entirely from existence that Hillary would have one, which is what the going narrative was.
There's a pretty logical reason for why Trump won in 2016, one that you can easily tie to class based politics and certain demographics. I've talked about this plenty of times in this thread and can do so again in the future if I must. There isn't a very logically sound reason for why Russian bots and memes swung what was supposed to be a landslide in Hillary's favor. The candidates are fundamentally different, as are the voters they appealed to.
The fact that it isn't brought up now is because Biden winning renders that narrative no longer useful and it would be a bit hard to explain why Russian interference was so powerful last time and why it didn't swing an arguably closer election this time. Not to mention the major demographic shifts and the like.
Rizen
Smash Legend
Electoral update! Trump won Alaska (how shocking) and Biden flipped Arizona. Georgia has a recount but is was in Biden's favor and it looks like Trump will win North Carolina. ATM the count is 290 Biden vs 217 Trump.
Also:
Also:
drag0nscythe
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Wonder what is left outside of trump trying to do a soft coup. What states need recounts, what are the status of legal challanges. outside the stupid, being trump tries to civil war this, what legal obstructions are left?
So after reading a lot I've come to this conclusion.
The United States has never hidden or apologized for its agenda which absolutely includes world domination through partnerships. That's the joke as they say. Countless times it's been parodied in the best and worst ways and it's effected EVERYONE who has contact with anyone else with a working pair of eyes or ears and are within close proximity to an information source.
So while both you and my wife play word battles the world keeps turning and stuff happens.
To tie this in with ^ enthusiasm People who want change want it to be like it was in 90s which briefly was revisited after Obama..
Down my way it's called Salve. Put some Salve on it.
...? I don't know lol it's a localism but it's meaning is clear. Healing time. People need a break. So when the tough times get us we go blue because democrats expect a lot on someone else's dime, historically.
Being that old people still exist and now mixed with middle aged children of Reaganomics and They're kids... Phew. I don't see Biden playing sax on TV.
So this what we have. Two shiny "politicians" who will be judged on their ability to please as many people as possible.
Good luck with that, I'm impressed by all the knowledge and experience that go into these discussions. For my money I'm proud I voted for Joe because at least now I have vested interest and say in the matter if it goes south.
The United States has never hidden or apologized for its agenda which absolutely includes world domination through partnerships. That's the joke as they say. Countless times it's been parodied in the best and worst ways and it's effected EVERYONE who has contact with anyone else with a working pair of eyes or ears and are within close proximity to an information source.
So while both you and my wife play word battles the world keeps turning and stuff happens.
To tie this in with ^ enthusiasm People who want change want it to be like it was in 90s which briefly was revisited after Obama..
Down my way it's called Salve. Put some Salve on it.
...? I don't know lol it's a localism but it's meaning is clear. Healing time. People need a break. So when the tough times get us we go blue because democrats expect a lot on someone else's dime, historically.
Being that old people still exist and now mixed with middle aged children of Reaganomics and They're kids... Phew. I don't see Biden playing sax on TV.
So this what we have. Two shiny "politicians" who will be judged on their ability to please as many people as possible.
Good luck with that, I'm impressed by all the knowledge and experience that go into these discussions. For my money I'm proud I voted for Joe because at least now I have vested interest and say in the matter if it goes south.
D
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S
StoicPhantom
Will get to your long wall of text soon.
Will get to your long wall of text soon.
Trump is just grasping at straws at this point. He lost fair and square. And yeah, I have a feeling Trump will try to do a coup, but he will most likely fail.
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drag0nscythe
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My question is what can he do that will be a coup? doesn't that require the military? I am not certain what he can do. hard seeing it.
Navarro: White House’s operating ‘assumption is a second Trump term’
The president has refused to concede to Biden and his administration has rejected any appearance of assisting with the transfer of power.
www.politico.com
That's all he can do legally. Waste time.
Meanwhile he already tested the waters over the river at the Pentagon by firing his number 1 contact so basically if Trump says Turn your weapons on civilians to contain domestic terrorism threats they have to agree or refuse. (They'd refuse so long as some hillninny with a nuclear bomb doesn't blow up an ice cream factory.)
StrangeKitten
Smash Lord
I don't think there's much Trump can do. He can order recounts, but recounts end in very few votes getting changed. This isn't 2000 where it came down to a few votes in FL. Biden is leading in so many states that he will be the next president, no matter what Trump tries.
drag0nscythe
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lead in arizona is shrinking also. if that flips, it will cause chaos.
StoicPhantom
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Trump fundraiser emails for legal challenges would also pay down campaign debt, fine print says
In the Trump campaign's latest push to raise money for its "election defense" fund, at least half of any donation could go toward paying down debt for the president's campaign, according to the fine print.
www.usatoday.com
You guys realize that Trump only getting one term means he's eligible to run again, right? And that attempting a coup would have a minuscule chance of success and a very high chance of landing him in prison, right?
Trump narrowly won in 2016 against a political giant, narrowly lost while gaining two million more voters just recently, and will be in prime position to take advantage of the fallout of a Biden/McConnell austerity power couple; provided the GOP doesn't take countermeasures against populists in their party by then. There's no logical reason why he would attempt a coup with so little institutional support now. It's clearly just a ploy to part rubes with their wallet.
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drag0nscythe
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You do know new york has it in for the man. Leta hope something happensTrump fundraiser emails for legal challenges would also pay down campaign debt, fine print says
In the Trump campaign's latest push to raise money for its "election defense" fund, at least half of any donation could go toward paying down debt for the president's campaign, according to the fine print.www.usatoday.com
You guys realize that Trump only getting one term means he's eligible to run again, right? And that attempting a coup would have a minuscule chance of success and a very high chance of landing him in prison, right?
Trump narrowly won in 2016 against a political giant, narrowly lost while gaining two million more voters just recently, and will be in prime position to take advantage of the fallout of a Biden/McConnell austerity power couple; provided the GOP doesn't take countermeasures against populists in their party by then. There's no logical reason why he would attempt a coup with so little institutional support now. It's clearly just a ploy to part rubes with their wallet.
StrangeKitten
Smash Lord
I would love to see Trump arrested! We saw that he barely paid any taxes once we got a look at his tax returns. I think that would qualify for felony tax evasion. Nonetheless, I'm skeptical that he actually will be. It's rare that rich people actually pay for their crimes.
Rizen
Smash Legend
Biden officially won AZ and GA while Trump won NC making the final score 306 Biden to 232 Trump- the same margin that Trump beat Clinton in 2016.
Presidential Election Results 2020: Biden Wins (Published 2020)
Joseph R. Biden Jr. was elected the 46th president of the United States. See full results and maps from the 2020 presidential election.
ABC News made a video about all Trump's legal troubles to come.
Skyblade12
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This is completely false. What you saw was that he only owed a small amount of taxes due to tax breaks and write offs, yet he actually overpaid by millions. But then, I’m guessing you didn’t actually read the articles about it (which, BTW, still didn’t include actual links or pictures to the documents in question).
Speaking of criminal activity, however, distributing tax information without an individual’s permission is specifically forbidden by law, so how about we arrest the news agencies that did so?
Literally none of the states have certified yet, so there is no “official” winner. Several of the states are in automatic recount territory, and several more are being challenged in courts.Biden officially won AZ and GA while Trump won NC making the final score 306 Biden to 232 Trump- the same margin that Trump beat Clinton in 2016.
Presidential Election Results 2020: Biden Wins (Published 2020)
Joseph R. Biden Jr. was elected the 46th president of the United States. See full results and maps from the 2020 presidential election.
ABC News made a video about all Trump's legal troubles to come.
Rizen
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What color is the sky in the world where you live?
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Trump once January hits be like
drag0nscythe
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Looks like pa is going rogue. If many republican states do that, could be an issue.
Biden to name Black woman, Cecilia Rouse, as chair of CEA: report
As a member of Obama's team, Rouse helped to pull America out of its biggest economic meltdown since the Great Depression.
thegrio.com
Yay
What's why about who, now? PA, where?
drag0nscythe
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The story I was reading was about faithless electors. Looks like PA wants to go into a constitutional crisis and just send all their electors to trump.
I doubt that's going to happen but I'll read the article if you can link it.
Meanwhile it's not all sunshine and rainbows, or is it?
news.google.com
Meanwhile it's not all sunshine and rainbows, or is it?
Google News
Comprehensive up-to-date news coverage, aggregated from sources all over the world by Google News.
news.google.com
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I'd recommend linking the article in question if you'd like to spark discussion about it. Hard to reply or consider the validity of the claims without the article.
drag0nscythe
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Alicorn
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Since Biden has won I guess its time to lock this thread since the election is over.
KingBooGengar57
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Glad this is bipartisan. I discussion I once saw had an extreme right-winger's conspiracies against members of the left.
Alicorn
Cyber Bunny
I am sorry you had to bare witness to such toxic.
drag0nscythe
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i disagree. Its not over until Biden is in the office. Anything can happen until he is sworn in. Even Trump calling martial law. Normal years, I would agree. but not this time..
For these Trump supporters primed to disbelieve defeat, challenging the election was a civic duty
In lawsuits alleging election fraud, Trump supporters described what they saw, heard and suspected. Many of their allegations crumbled under scrutiny.
www.google.com
Here's a great summation of everything Trump is throwing at the wall. The video might stick...too early to tell and no one wants to pull a CNN and be wrong.
It's scheduled to be closed on Inauguration Day.
Skyblade12
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Ah, yes. Anyone who disagrees with the left is a "crazy".
Out of curiosity, do any of you actually believe that there WASN'T fraud? Honest question. Because, it's blatantly obvious. Even people outside the country have commented that it's obvious as hell.
For one thing, literally no one is acting as though Biden won legitimately. The entire media campaign of "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" doesn't make sense if Biden had a legitimate win. Instead it would be a case of "let the stupid orange man get his audit and then we can prove we won and mock him more".
The amount of facts, both in terms of eyewitness testimony (which is coming from bipartisan sources, BTW), and statistical analysis pointing to fraud is staggering.
No, I'm serious, do any of you ACTUALLY believe that Biden won legitimately? That the trends that were seen across the nation all changed in precisely the four major metro areas that Biden needed to win, coincidentally the same four areas that stopped counting in the middle of the night and then got massive ballot dumps? The only areas in the country that suddenly became 90% for a single candidate?
It's okay to just say "ha ha, we cheated, we won. Sucks to be you". I mean, we all already know that the left's rallying cry is "BAMN". No one is going to be shocked. So, yeah. Genuine question: Is it just self delusion? Are you trying to wait until Biden's inaugurated to admit it? Are you somehow trying to fool ANYONE with this pathetic charade? Or do you actually believe that the man that no one listens to or cares about got more votes than any other person in US electoral history, including Barack Obama during his record breaking enthusiasm year?
As for the video in question (which you'll note everyone is very carefully NOT posting on here), it is security footage from the State Farm Arena where the ballot counting took place.
It's funny how the argument is "this has been debunked for weeks", when the video had literally been seen for the first time the day of that hearing (which is pointed out in that hearing, directly after the cut off point of the video, because the MSM does not like to tell you the truth). But then, leftists think that just saying "debunked" means that you've debunked something. And, since you won't accept any source unless it's from an "unbiased" source (translation: source that has a bias that agrees with you), that's probably the best I can find. I advise you to actually watch the hearings and read the affidavits if you want actual information.
So, the video in question, taken in fully, shows the poll workers dismissing the observers (who are required by law to be there during ballot counting), extracting four cases of ballots from beneath the tables, and counting them with no observers present.
Oh, and lest you try to claim (as the left frequently has) that the counting never paused, don't forget this bit from that arena on election day:
But then, records show that no pipe burst, and in fact texts from those present at the time shows that there was a leaky urinal that did not affect counting at all. So keep trusting your "unbiased sources".
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drag0nscythe
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Biden won the election. There are now 40iwh lawsuits claiming no voer fraud. This entire witch hunt is just that, a witch hunt. This is like the boston bomber situation where the public was trying to play detective and flaggednthe wrong guy. Or less seriously, the smash community hunting down the grinch leak. They are trying to prove something, no critical assessment involved.
And yes, fraud did happen. A trump voter submitted a ballot for his dead mother. Usps was spexidically slowed down to hamper results. Voter purges were happening everywhere.
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Skyblade12
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Are you trying to convince me? Or yourself?
There have been a number of lawsuits thrown out, some proceeding forward. Of those thrown out, some have been thrown out by judges who haven't even looked at the evidence. Some have been thrown out specifically because they are challenging a small enough number of ballots that they wouldn't change the election results (which is not saying that fraud was not present), and some of them are probably frivolous.
There's been a great deal of fraud, and it's blatantly obvious. Look at the individual county votes. Biden won the fewest number of counties of any President in modern history. Furthermore, in those swing states which had the massive vote dumps in the middle of the night, he won counties at a rate of about 95%. Typically, in areas that are "solid red" or "solid blue", the ratio is more like 2 to 1. Even places like California and New York. Trump actually IMPROVED his portion of the vote total in NYC, but in the metropolitan areas of the swing states (and ONLY those areas), somehow Biden magically got to percentages of the votes that we don't see anywhere except...well, except your average leftist paradise, to be quite honest. Venezuela, China, Cuba, etcetera. Those countries all typically have votes that go 90+% to the Party. Nowhere else in the world, though.
drag0nscythe
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Did you know the moon landing was faked. There is a c on a rock, no stars in the sky, the wind in the flag. A stage was used.
It is conspiracy theories to help those cope with reality. Again, looking for "proof" to justify ones position instead of following proper scientific procedure.
And why are you assuming fraud only happened for democrats? This is your bias showing. You assume everyone was fine with the last 4 years without actually critically thinking about what has been happening and how people would respond. Acting like the election is in a vacuum. How do you explain usps and it killing the machines beforw the election? How do you explain any of trumps bull? You dont see it. Rose colored classes.
Trump demands to see a list of Congressional Republicans who have acknowledged Biden's election win
A survey published by The Washington Post on Saturday found that only 25 Congressional Republicans have acknowledged Biden's election victory.
www.google.com
Let me guesa. Lists are ok only when teump does it?
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