Meta 2015 Community Tier List Voting

[Spoice]

I don't have much Falcon knowledge as it is, I shouldn't have put something that I am not knowledgeable about. My apologies Falcon players

Perfect proof of why Falcon is the most underused character in the current top 8. I feel like we need someone to really push this guys meta along, like how Amsa is doing with Yoshi. We all know he can do well, Isai, Hax and S2J are all good examples of this characters potential but they all had a problem really.
Isai: Ultimate sandbagging master, barely ever cared in singles (apex 2012 vs CJ)
Hax: Couldn't really adapt and fight spacies very well (that being said, I haven't watch many hax matches, but he seemed to struggle against them as CF)
S2J: Simply not at the skill level to make major upsets and get top 3 in majors, even he said it himself, that being said he is still giving good results by getting into the top 8.
It seems Falcon needs a player that is extremely devoted to him, so much so, that the character's meta just blows up outta nowhere and proves to everybody he is not dying in today's meta.

 

[thegrovylekid]

Wait, someone put Ganondorf in top 8, above Ice Climbers.

I fail to see the logic here at all.

 

[Sir Tundra]

Wait, someone put Ganondorf in top 8, above Ice Climbers.

I fail to see the logic here at all.

Its from the same guy who put young link above samus

 

[Wreckarooni]

A Ganon in the top 8 and a Young Link above Samus?

See....this is why we can't have nice things

In 2015 is it still true that a skilled Roy can beat any Fox? Or has the Meta evolved too much?

 

[Sir Tundra]

A Ganon in the top 8 and a Young Link above Samus?

See....this is why we can't have nice things

In 2015 is it still true that a skilled Roy can beat any Fox? Or has the Meta evolved too much?

Yo the meta evolved to the point where 20XX is dead and Roy has become the best character in melee

 

[Cleon]

Maybe there's something I'm not seeing, I mean, I pretty much never see these characters played by high level players because they're bottom tier/the worst, but I don't know how people can put anyone below Bowser.

I'd take Kirby or Pichu any day over Bowser. There's soooo many matchups I feel are unwinnable with Bowser, where as with Kirby or Ness or other bottom characters I feel like I can actually do some stuff with. With Bowser, I feel like I can't do anything. Aside from up-b out of shield and his ledge attack, there's not much to do.

 

[DeepDish]

Hopefully this tier list when it is all said and done will be ignored by people who ACTUALLY compete in tournaments lolll.

Who thinks Doc has an amazing punish game? It's subpar at best, and relies on a ton of hard reads.

getting grabs with him is soo freaking hard, and really requires one outplaying their opponent.

I say this as the current "best" Doc main. People do not pay attention to Tristate results.

Oh well, he's trash and Luigi is def better anyway LOL. Carry on folks

There will be 2 tier lists, as stated in the first post of this thread by Sveet. One tier list will be MIOM top 100. You're not in it man, but I agree that your results and performance are ignored. You just gotta get on stream more at nationals/big regionals. I believe in you, you can do it.

He does rely on A LOT of reads. Totally agreed.

Getting grabs is hard. If his grab range was a little more disjointed, I'd argue he'd be in contention for top 8/9 just cause of the followups and kill ability of back throw.

He's not trash. Stop selling your character short. He relies on AMAZING fundamentals and reads, as well as intelligent survival DI.

IMO, he's essentially tied with Luigi in the ranking of the tier list. I think Doc has better matchups against Fox, Peach, Puff, Pika and Samus than Luigi does, but only slightly.

 

[Equal]

S Tier: Fox, Falco, Marth

A Tier: Sheik, Falcon, Jigglypuff, Peach, Ice Climbers

B Tier: Pikachu, Samus, Yoshi, Luigi, Ganondorf

C Tier: Doctor Mario, Mario, Donkey Kong, Young Link, Link

F Tier: Roy, Zelda, Mewtwo, Pichu, Game & Watch, Ness, Bowser, Kirby



S Tier: Best characters that dominate the metagame and winning the most national tournaments.


A Tier: Good characters that have some weakness or flaw, but can be successful in the metagame and are generally be considered as a tournament threat.


B Tier: Characters that are mostly represented by a couple dedicated players, they can survive decently in the metagame and get decent tournament results but have yet to show they are a consistent tournament threat.


C Tier: Characters that don’t have much if any representation, have obvious flaws, and struggle in the metagame. They haven’t ever been shown to pose a tournament threat.


F Tier: These characters are obviously bad, lack representation and don’t do well at all in the current meta game. These characters suck and will most likely never do anything notable.

copy and pasted from my Google Doc, which you can find here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zs_NV7hVEpw7YiD-kVZrEFKw6T9_h20zHVbzyPQX4RU/edit
---

Things to note:
- Sheik not being in S Tier: Did this mostly because we haven't seen Sheik winning any nationals, although I think the potential is there
- Falcon being 5th: I'm a falcon main so bias, but I do think this character has insane potential and only loses to Fox, Falco, and questionably to Shiek.
-Peach being 7th: This placing is a tossup between Puff and Peach tbh, both these characters are weird to place on a tier list because they both (for the most part) only represented by a smash god. These two chars both make decent arguments for being better than the other, ultimately I decided Puff would be higher because she wins the head to head.

 

[Hooooots]

S Tier: Fox, Falco, Marth

A Tier: Sheik, Falcon, Jigglypuff, Peach, Ice Climbers

B Tier: Pikachu, Samus, Yoshi, Luigi, Ganondorf

C Tier: Doctor Mario, Mario, Donkey Kong, Young Link, Link

F Tier: Roy, Zelda, Mewtwo, Pichu, Game & Watch, Ness, Bowser, Kirby



S Tier: Best characters that dominate the metagame and winning the most national tournaments.


A Tier: Good characters that have some weakness or flaw, but can be successful in the metagame and are generally be considered as a tournament threat.


B Tier: Characters that are mostly represented by a couple dedicated players, they can survive decently in the metagame and get decent tournament results but have yet to show they are a consistent tournament threat.


C Tier: Characters that don’t have much if any representation, have obvious flaws, and struggle in the metagame. They haven’t ever been shown to pose a tournament threat.


F Tier: These characters are obviously bad, lack representation and don’t do well at all in the current meta game. These characters suck and will most likely never do anything notable.

copy and pasted from my Google Doc, which you can find here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zs_NV7hVEpw7YiD-kVZrEFKw6T9_h20zHVbzyPQX4RU/edit
---

Things to note:
- Sheik not being in S Tier: Did this mostly because we haven't seen Sheik winning any nationals, although I think the potential is there
- Falcon being 5th: I'm a falcon main so bias, but I do think this character has insane potential and only loses to Fox, Falco, and questionably to Shiek.
-Peach being 7th: This placing is a tossup between Puff and Peach tbh, both these characters are weird to place on a tier list because they both (for the most part) only represented by a smash god. These two chars both make decent arguments for being better than the other, ultimately I decided Puff would be higher because she wins the head to head.

Falcon is 5th ? Lmao , maybe in 2-5 years....

Doctor mario never posed a tournament threat.... hmmm shroomed placing top 8 at evo and apex and beating leffen didn't show the characters potential i guess to you? Yet you put ganondorf before him , GG.

 

[Spoice]

Falcon is 5th ? Lmao , maybe in 2-5 years....

As soon as Mango goes Falcon, then we'll see major improvement in his meta game. I'm sure of it.

 

[C_Mill24]

As soon as Mango goes Falcon, then we'll see major improvement in his meta game. I'm sure of it.

Except Mango already has a Falcon, and his style with said character is all read based. Basing your playstyle around hard reads doesn't expand your character's potential; it just shows how good your fundamentals are. If you ask me, give the players behind the 20GX movement, Wizzrobe, Gahtzu, and Gravy, another year or so, and we'll probably see an expansion of Captain Falcon's potential in the meta game.

 

[Equal]

Falcon is 5th ? Lmao , maybe in 2-5 years....

Doctor mario never posed a tournament threat.... hmmm shroomed placing top 8 at evo and apex and beating leffen didn't show the characters potential i guess to you? Yet you put ganondorf before him , GG.

S2J and Wizzrobe are prime examples of players who are getting great results nationally and locally with Falcon. If you look a little harder, you see players live Gahtzu and Gravy who aren't quite top 30 in the world, but still getting more than decent results at nationals and are showing that the character is viable in tournament. It's a bold claim but there's evidence to back it up.

And I suppose you make a good point with Doc, although the way I look at it, Shroomed has been the only one in recent years to show any success nationally with Doctor Mario. There's really nobody who comes to mind who is still pushing this characters metagame (the only Doctor Mario I even know of right now is OTG, who does super well in tristate, but haven't seen him perform at nationals yet) so there's no recent results to back up Doc.

Whereas Ganondorf has multiple dedicated players, who have been placing well locally and nationally. Bizzaro Flame and Eikelmann place very well locally and have been doing decently at nationals, Bizzaro even forced Armada to switch off of Fox. I find that particularly impressive and some solid evidence that the character is doing okay in the meta.

 

[EddyBearr]

Shroomed's 2013 work, Apex 2014 work, and TBH4 work should put Doc above both Ganon and Luigi who have just never gone that far. Definitely Ganon, at least.

 

[Wreckarooni]

Well if we're gonna use that logic then I guess we're going to have to put Pikachu and Yoshi above Dr. Mario.

 

[EddyBearr]

I'm waiting for CEO, but atm I'm definitely feeling Pika > Yoshi > Doc for 10-12.

 

[Wreckarooni]

Well at CEO I'm pretty much 100% positive that you are going to see Luigis place higher than any Doc, and most likely even Marios will place higher. That's been true for the entirety of 2015, after all this is the 2015 tier list. So far Luigi and even Marios have already attained higher placements and actually made it to the top brackets at Paragon, INY, GOML, Apex, Sandstorm, Press Start. The interesting thing about Luigi is that arguably his top mains don't even make it out to nationals anymore (Vudujin & Abate), yet there are still more Luigi mains like Jackie Tran, Eddy Mexico, and Blea Gelo are also getting top placements (ROFL too).


I am much more a proponent of looking at results and actual usage of a character rather than future potential and hypothetical theory crafting with no one actually following through with that main at nationals (or giving up on the character). I think the former is a much more respectful way to judge and place a character, you have to acknowledge all the actual time and effort the mains that use them at tournaments put in. I see smashers like KoopaTroopa and A Rookie who are putting in serious work and busting their butts to represent their character, their actual results should definitely count towards advancing their character. Doc is easily a more viable choice, but the way things are currently it wouldn't be crazy to place Mario above Doc right now (I would never see this actually happening though).

EDIT: And with internationals there was Schlimmshady (Mario main) and Eagle (Doc main) who tied for 25th and VilNess (Luigi Main) who placed 17th at BEAST 5.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I am much more a proponent of looking at results and actual usage of a character rather than future potential and hypothetical theory crafting with no one actually following through with that main at nationals (or giving up on the character). I think the former is a much more respectful way to judge and place a character, you have to acknowledge all the actual time and effort the mains that use them at tournaments put in. I see smashers like KoopaTroopa and A Rookie who are putting in serious work and busting their butts to represent their character, their actual results should definitely count towards advancing their character. Doc is easily a more viable choice, but the way things are currently it wouldn't be crazy to place Mario above Doc right now (I would never see this actually happening though).

Its because of these reasons why I think the concept of a tier list will never get settled. The tier list becomes a sort of emotional state of characters that are universally placing well for the time period. I am going to take a huge leap of faith and say that Yoshi's spot is going to become very emotional and predominately due to one player for many people.

This is merely a comment on this observation. Its interesting.

 

[Hooooots]

Its because of these reasons why I think the concept of a tier list will never get settled. The tier list becomes a sort of emotional state of characters that are universally placing well for the time period. I am going to take a huge leap of faith and say that Yoshi's spot is going to become very emotional and predominately due to one player for many people.

This is merely a comment on this observation. Its interesting.

I agree and I think that it is wrong to judge a tier list off of player results because then ,if kirby places top 8 is he instantly good? Players results leads you in the right direction when it comes to representing a characters tier placement. But it isn't the main deciding factor... Look what happened to doc , I don't see any good docs representing him and now hes dropping in the tier list... thats bs. A good and intelligent player looks at a kit and sees what can be used etc, and also plays with the character and sees whats happening in matchups....

This is going to be a blunt statement but if my hands don't start messing with me i'll be the next doc on the come up and you'll see why I think hes #9 or even #8.

Edit: Eagle actually is a pretty good doc from some of the games I just watched.

 

[keymanb]

while ganondorf being higher then ice climbers and pikachu are not as crazy as having young link higher then samus it's still very questionable.



If you were talking about smash 4 then I would agree 100% with that. But sadly this is melee, so in that regards plz clarify or show a past post on why you think ness is better then dk in melee

Debatable sure, why don't you ask the bud why he made those placements, he said he was probably high when he made it.

 

[AceMan]

I might not be the most reliable source when it comes to this, I'm going to give this a go anyway.

S Tier
High
1) Fox
2) Marth
3) Falco
Low
4) Sheik
A Tier
High
5) Jigglypuff
6) Peach
Low
7) Captain Falcon
8) Ice Climbers
9) Pikachu
10) Yoshi
B Tier
High
11) Luigi
Mid
12) Samus
13) Dr. Mario
14) Ganondorf
Low
15) Young Link
16) Mario
17) Link
C Tier
High
18) Donkey Kong
19) Pichu
Mid
20) Mr. Game & Watch
Low
21) Ness
22) Mewtwo
F Tier
High
23) Roy
Low
24) Kirby
25) Bowser
26) Zelda

If anyone has any questions, just send me a PM, I'd be happy to explain!
Also if anyone has time, please tell me what you think!

 

[Wreckarooni]

inb4peopleaskwhyPichu's18th

That's the only extremely questionable outlier you have, but I'm not even going to bother asking why since it would be pointless. The rest of your tier list is interesting, people could make an argument for Yoshi being that high but I would need to see more consistent proof. People use AmSa as an example but they seem ignorant of all his bad placements at tournaments and also the many times he failed to even make it out of bracket or qualify (not to mention losing to mid level players that actually know the MU). That kind of stuff isn't obvious common knowledge for the masses, but it would be foolish to ignore when considering bumping up Yoshi that much (the MBR and MIOM ranked players no doubt consider this info and their 1st hand experience). But that's the trouble with only having 1-2 players repping a character, it all rests on their shoulders the good and bad results.

 

[Woohoo982]

A TIER LIST
Top Tier:
High Tier:
High-Mid Tier:
Mid Tier:
Low-Mid Tier:
Low Tier:

 

[EddyBearr]

Well at CEO I'm pretty much 100% positive that you are going to see Luigis place higher than any Doc, and most likely even Marios will place higher. That's been true for the entirety of 2015, after all this is the 2015 tier list. So far Luigi and even Marios have already attained higher placements and actually made it to the top brackets at Paragon, INY, GOML, Apex, Sandstorm, Press Start. The interesting thing about Luigi is that arguably his top mains don't even make it out to nationals anymore (Vudujin & Abate), yet there are still more Luigi mains like Jackie Tran, Eddy Mexico, and Blea Gelo are also getting top placements (ROFL too).


I am much more a proponent of looking at results and actual usage of a character rather than future potential and hypothetical theory crafting with no one actually following through with that main at nationals (or giving up on the character). I think the former is a much more respectful way to judge and place a character, you have to acknowledge all the actual time and effort the mains that use them at tournaments put in. I see smashers like KoopaTroopa and A Rookie who are putting in serious work and busting their butts to represent their character, their actual results should definitely count towards advancing their character. Doc is easily a more viable choice, but the way things are currently it wouldn't be crazy to place Mario above Doc right now (I would never see this actually happening though).

EDIT: And with internationals there was Schlimmshady (Mario main) and Eagle (Doc main) who tied for 25th and VilNess (Luigi Main) who placed 17th at BEAST 5.

A "2015 tier list" doesn't necessitate that only results in 2015 matter -- rather, it's an analysis of character viability in the meta as-of-2015, which means it includes all metagame advances since the game came out. I consider 2013-Present the "modern era", and as such, Doc still has infinitely better results than any character who has never gotten top 8 at a major.

If a Luigi gets like 5th at CEO 2015, then I -might- put Luigi > Doc; more realistically, I would probably start saying I'd wait until EVO to decide, and ask a Luigi to get at least 13th. Until then, the highest a Luigi has ever placed is 17th at a major (Abate @ TBH4, Eddy Mexico @ EVO 2013.) Doc has 3 majors results above this (13th @ Apex 2014, 7th @ EVO 2013, 5th @ Apex 2013) alongside a near-comparable showing at TBH4 since Shroomed used Doc a lot there.

By the way, Jackie Tran isn't a Luigi main, not at all. Jackie Tran plays ???.

 

[blargh257]

By the way, Jackie Tran isn't a Luigi main, not at all. Jackie Tran plays ???.

Jackie Tran plays CF, I think.

 

[Wreckarooni]

A "2015 tier list" doesn't necessitate that only results in 2015 matter -- rather, it's an analysis of character viability in the meta as-of-2015, which means it includes all metagame advances since the game came out. I consider 2013-Present the "modern era", and as such, Doc still has infinitely better results than any character who has never gotten top 8 at a major.

If a Luigi gets like 5th at CEO 2015, then I -might- put Luigi > Doc; more realistically, I would probably start saying I'd wait until EVO to decide, and ask a Luigi to get at least 13th. Until then, the highest a Luigi has ever placed is 17th at a major (Abate @ TBH4, Eddy Mexico @ EVO 2013.) Doc has 3 majors results above this (13th @ Apex 2014, 7th @ EVO 2013, 5th @ Apex 2013) alongside a near-comparable showing at TBH4 since Shroomed used Doc a lot there.

By the way, Jackie Tran isn't a Luigi main, not at all. Jackie Tran plays ???.

IPress Start is considered a major, it's a national and had qualifiers didn't it? 13th from non-Luigi "main", and 9th from Blea Gelo at CEO 2014....not 17th as the highest at a major. Also Eddy Mexico placed 17th at EVO 2014 not 2013.

Press Start Results

CEO 2014 results

In your head if it makes you feel to argue semantics and say JackieTran's not a Luigi main that's fine. He does play many characters, but infact that makes it even more impressive that he would go pretty much all Luigi and still place so high. He's also been maining him (sorry I know you hate that word) a lot a locals and regionals recently. What other word can you use when you use a character pretty much exclusively through an entire tournament?

 

[EddyBearr]

Press Start Results

In your head if it makes you feel better to say he's not a Luigi main that's fine. He does play many characters, but infact that makes it even more impressive that he would go all Luigi and still place so high. He's also been maining him (sorry I know you hate that word) a lot a locals and regionals recently. What other word can you use when you use a character pretty much exclusively through an entire tournament?

Jackie Tran plays CF, I think.

On the AZ PR banner, Jackie's character icon is a Peach with a CF and Luigi mask at the waist, alongside some weird human face in the top left corner. In the AZ PR hype video, Jackie Tran's first character is Link, and Marth is shown. On the FB discussion for AZ's melee PR banner, someone stated Jackie's main is "???".

I don't say this because "It makes me feel better in my head" -- I say this because I know about Jackie Tran. AZ is my secondary community as I visit AZ every winter, and although I've never played Jackie due to him being Tucson and my visiting Phoenix, I'm willing to say with some certainty that I have far more indirect contact with Jackie than someone who says he's a Luigi main just because he played Luigi at a few Regionals. Jackie has a huge slew of characters and plays whatever, lately Jackie has indeed been playing more Luigi, but do understand that Jackie could very well have been playing Link and Roy all tournament until stream time, and Jackie plays what Jackie plays, rather than "maining" some character.

Here's some recent footage for jackie at an AZ local:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=CysOer61cjM Link & Young Link vs an AZ PR-level player, loses.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXJbh3fHPT0 Jackie going CF against a player who has beaten Jackie before, also AZ PR-level player.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHBlEJJbY50 Jackie going Luigi against Axe.

Jackie's footage in the AZ PR video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaXAfMfmdPw#t=3m27s

 

[Wreckarooni]

On the AZ PR banner, Jackie's character icon is a Peach with a CF and Luigi mask at the waist, alongside some weird human face in the top left corner. In the AZ PR hype video, Jackie Tran's first character is Link, and Marth is shown. On the FB discussion for AZ's melee PR banner, someone stated Jackie's main is "???".

*edited out picture*

I don't say this because "It makes me feel better in my head" -- I say this because I know about Jackie Tran. AZ is my secondary community as I visit AZ every winter, and although I've never played Jackie due to him being Tucson and my visiting Phoenix, I'm willing to say with some certainty that I have far more indirect contact with Jackie than someone who says he's a Luigi main just because he played Luigi at a few Regionals. Jackie has a huge slew of characters and plays whatever, lately Jackie has indeed been playing more Luigi, but do understand that Jackie could very well have been playing Link and Roy all tournament until stream time, and Jackie plays what Jackie plays, rather than "maining" some character.

Here's some recent footage for jackie at an AZ local:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=CysOer61cjM Link & Young Link vs an AZ PR-level player, loses.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXJbh3fHPT0 Jackie going CF against a player who has beaten Jackie before, also AZ PR-level player.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHBlEJJbY50 Jackie going Luigi against Axe.

Jackie's footage in the AZ PR video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaXAfMfmdPw#t=3m27s

Hey that's up to you I choose the word main when a player uses him throughout a tournament to save a paragraph of writing. I assume people are smart enough to understand, to that argument again it's even more impressive that he doesn't spend ever every moment of his practice time on the character and still placed better than Doc mains.

The real main point is that you are throwing out bogus info -

Jackie Tran got 13th at Press Start with Luigi
&
Blea Gelo got 9th at CEO 2014 with Luigi.

17th was not the highest a Luigi user ever achieved at a major.

 

[EddyBearr]

Hey that's up to you I choose the word main when a player uses him throughout a tournament to save a paragraph of writing. I assume people are smart enough to understand, to that argument again it's even more impressive that he doesn't spend ever spend of his practice time on the character and still placed better than Doc mains.

The real main point is that you are throwing out bogus info -

Jackie Tran got 13th at Press Start with Luigi
&
Blea Gelo got 9th at CEO 2014 with Luigi.

17th was not the highest a Luigi user ever achieved at a major.

Three things:
1. Would you mind editing my personal info out of your quote? I did this with my own post, but unfortunately a bit too late.
2. Jackie doesn't "use Luigi throughout a tournament" -- that's the Point. Jackie just plays characters. Lol.
3. CEO 2014 wasn't really a major, due to low entrant count and not as much national force. Same goes with Press Start. CEO was definitely a national, Press Start was maybe a national, but neither were majors. Given the entrant count for CEO 2015 and how many people are going in, CEO 2015 will probably be a major. As it stands, I consider there to have been 7 majors thus far this era: Apex 2013/2014/2015, Evo 2013/2014, MLG 2014, and TBH4.

 

[Wreckarooni]

Three things:
1. Would you mind editing my personal info out of your quote? I did this with my own post, but unfortunately a bit too late.
2. Jackie doesn't "use Luigi throughout a tournament" -- that's the Point. Jackie just plays characters. Lol.
3. CEO 2014 wasn't really a major, due to low entrant count and not as much national force. Same goes with Press Start. CEO was definitely a national, Press Start was maybe a national, but neither were majors. Given the entrant count for CEO 2015 and how many people are going in, CEO 2015 will probably be a major. As it stands, I consider there to have been 7 majors thus far this era: Apex 2013/2014/2015, Evo 2013/2014, MLG 2014, and TBH4.

Well I can tell you definitively you are wrong on both points. Those players sponsors considered both Majors and Nationals, fronted the money for representation and travel and boarding AND they are categorized as majors officially (this is reflected by those who organized the qualifiers leading up to the major and how the companies themselves list them). The Gods were in attendance along with pretty much all the top contenders that make it out to nationals usually.

I'm not even a big supporter of Luigi, and I don't really care where Doc falls on the tier list.....but I'm not sure why you are adamant on twisting facts and arguing semantics. Even if the stars aligned and miraculously you got your way with not considering these Majors or Nationals (and you completely ignore them), still where is Doc in comparison to Luigi or even Mario at these "don't count non-majors non-nationals"

 

[EddyBearr]

Well I can tell you definitively you are wrong on both points. Those players sponsors considered both Majors and Nationals, fronted the money for representation and travel and boarding AND they are categorized as majors officially (this is reflected by those who organized the qualifiers leading up to the major and how the companies themselves list them). The Gods were in attendance along with pretty much all the top contenders that make it out to nationals usually.

1 Thanks on picture.
2. http://www.meleeitonme.com/tafo-blog-summer-of-smash/

2. Who will win Evo?

Interestingly enough, Armada has yet to win a Super Major since his return from retirement back in 2013 (and yes, CEO does not count). Granted, Armada has been on a tear lately, not losing a tournament since Apex, and would be more than happy to shut up Mango Nation with an Evo trophy on his shelf of accomplishments. "

I tend to just call "super majors" "majors" but it's the same core idea. No Luigi has gone as far as Doc has in these "megatron tournaments".

 

[Wreckarooni]

1 Thanks on picture.
2. http://www.meleeitonme.com/tafo-blog-summer-of-smash/

I tend to just call "super majors" "majors" but it's the same core idea. No Luigi has gone as far as Doc has in these "megatron tournaments".

I edited the pic out, didn't realize it had something in it.

I had added stuff to my comment above to before you had responded.

I'm just going to have to strongly agree to disagree, I'm not big on arguing over semantics and it kind of seems like there's a bit of bias here (which means we will get nowhere productive). If the companies paying and supporting these top players consider it a national and a major then I agree, I think it's silly to discredit such large tournaments with so many top players.

And like I said these characters are so close, it's not even worth arguing about and I have no bias since I'm not cheerleading for either. Just wanted to straighten up those facts since I was getting a propaganda vibe with all the misinformation and omission of results. I guess we will see what the rest of the year holds, though it seems like most of the Doc supporters don't seem interested in results or representation.

 

[Deleted member]

Edit: disregard, need to put more thought into this, will post again later.

 

[AceMan]

inb4peopleaskwhyPichu's18th

That's the only extremely questionable outlier you have, but I'm not even going to bother asking why since it would be pointless. The rest of your tier list is interesting, people could make an argument for Yoshi being that high but I would need to see more consistent proof. People use AmSa as an example but they seem ignorant of all his bad placements at tournaments and also the many times he failed to even make it out of bracket or qualify (not to mention losing to mid level players that actually know the MU). That kind of stuff isn't obvious common knowledge for the masses, but it would be foolish to ignore when considering bumping up Yoshi that much (the MBR and MIOM ranked players no doubt consider this info and their 1st hand experience). But that's the trouble with only having 1-2 players repping a character, it all rests on their shoulders the good and bad results.

Thanks for the info, but I do believe that Yoshi has a lot of potential and has grown a lot in 2 years, incredible combos, an amazing projectile and the super armor double jump really help Yoshi out (not to mention the insane tech). To explain Pichu, he does have strong kill moves and damage racking ability, he also has great mobility and recovery, his combo game is actually good too, though I know the infamous weaknesses such as short range and hurting himself

 

[xed122]

S:

Fox
Sheik
Marth
Falco
Puff
Captain falco
IC´S
Peach
dr mario
a: Samus
Picachu
Ganadorf
Luigi
Young Link
B: Yoshi
Link
Roy
Zelda
Mewtwo
Mr Game and watch
DK
C: Bowser
Ness
F: Pichu
Kirby

 

[keymanb]

@xed122

Could you, explain?

 

[xed122]

@xed122



Could you, explain?

ok i explain the thinks that i belive are more important

i put sheik and marth over falco because i belive that they have more combo abilty that falco and in the case of marth a better finisher

put peach under because of falco and the IC´S have more combo ability but i belive that that can be changed

dr mario is a great character he has a problem with the recovery but he also has a great combo ability

and samus has one of the best projectile skills in al the game good recovery and combo ability and can edge guard easily

 

[keymanb]

ok i explain the thinks that i belive are more important

i put sheik and marth over falco because i belive that they have more combo abilty that falco and in the case of marth a better finisher

put peach under because of falco and the IC´S have more combo ability but i belive that that can be changed

dr mario is a great character he has a problem with the recovery but he also has a great combo ability

and samus has one of the best projectile skills in al the game good recovery and combo ability and can edge guard easily

Ok... First, Falco is a combo MACHINE, 2nd Samus, is supposed to be higher than doc and IC's

3rd Peach is most likely a more viable choice above falcon, in my heart falcon is above here. But facts prove it.

I don't even mind that you put shiek above falco at all, what I do mind is where you placed doc, samus and the IC

 

[xed122]

Ok... First, Falco is a combo MACHINE, 2nd Samus, is supposed to be higher than doc and IC's

3rd Peach is most likely a more viable choice above falcon, in my heart falcon is above here. But facts prove it.

I don't even mind that you put shiek above falco at all, what I do mind is where you placed doc, samus and the IC

ok i can change peach/falcon pleacement and about doc maybe you are right but the IC´S playing REALY good are better that samus

 

[xed122]

ok i can change peach/falcon pleacement and about doc maybe you are right but the IC´S playing REALY good are better that samus

as you can see now put peach in the original spot an put dr mario and samus in the same spot please tell me your opinion abou that

 

[keymanb]

as you can see now put peach in the original spot an put dr mario and samus in the same spot please tell me your opinion abou that

What? No, I don't want to change your tier list, keep it the way it was, it's all your choice.