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Meta 2015 Community Tier List Voting

vexoskeleton

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 22, 2014
Messages
95
Location
Massachusetts
1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Marth
4. Peach
5. C. Falcon
6. Sheik
7. Ice Climbers
8. Jigglypuff
9. Pikachu
10. Samus
11. Luigi
12. Mario
13. Yoshi
14. Zelda
15. Ganon
16. Doc
17. Y. Link
18. DK
19. Link
20. GnW
21. Pichu
22. Boswer
23. Ness
24. Mewtwo
25. Roy
26. Kirby
How do you justify zelda at 14th?
 

TacoLord9000

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
69
Location
Waco, TX
As someone who plays Zelda I can attest to the fact that she is terrible. The only characters I would put below her are Ness, Boswer, and Kirby. If you are putting her up there because she can switch into Sheik, that is pretty silly.
 

pichuplayer

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Messages
230
Location
saffron city
What's the holdup with this?
holdup? oh you mean with the list sveet said it would be in a few weeks so from the lists i seen and have gone through this is what it is so far going off of pages 1-5 and my own no trolls
1.Fox
2.Falco
3.Marth
4.Shiek
5.Peach
6.Puff
7.Ic's
8.Falcon
9.Pika
10.Samus
11.Yoshi
12.Luigi
13.Gannon
14.Doc Damn it
15.Mario
16.Y.Link
17.Linkk
18.DK
19. G&W
20. Roy
21.Pichu
22.M2
23.Zelda
24.Ness
25.Bowser
26.Kirby
keep in mind this might not be THAT accurate because this is very difficult to do but on the first five pages and my own list this is what i have gathered looking at it....seems decent
 
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EddyBearr

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Messages
1,202
Location
Minneapolis, Minnesota
Here's a tier list based only on those posted in the thread by users who have at least 1 top 3 finish in their smashboards melee records (also including, Hbox, Hax, Laudandus, and Tafokints despite not meeting those conditions)

Tier [1.00 - 5.00): :foxmelee:(1.00) . :falcomelee: (2.64) . :marthmelee: (3.14) . :sheikmelee: (3.64)
Tier [5.00 - 10.00): :peachmelee: (5.71) . :jigglypuffmelee: (6.07) . :falconmelee: (6.93) . :icsmelee: (7.43) . :pikachumelee: (9.29) . :samusmelee: (9.57)
Tier [10.00 - 15.00): :luigimelee: (12.00) . :drmario:(12.15) . :yoshimelee: (12.54) . :ganondorfmelee: (14.27) . :mariomelee: (14.91)
Tier [15.00 - 20.00): :younglinkmelee: (16.23) . :linkmelee: (16.59) . :dkmelee: (17.73) . :gawmelee: (19.91)
Tier [20.00 - 26.00]:
:zeldamelee: (20.91) . :roymelee: (21.00) . :mewtwomelee: (21.82) . :nessmelee: (23.00) .:pichumelee: (23.45) . :kirbymelee: (24.64) . :bowsermelee: (24.82)

I would interpret this as:
Good to main: :foxmelee::falcomelee::marthmelee::sheikmelee::peachmelee::jigglypuffmelee::falconmelee::icsmelee::pikachumelee::samusmelee:
Disadvantaged: :luigimelee::drmario::yoshimelee::ganondorfmelee::mariomelee::younglinkmelee::linkmelee::dkmelee:
Don't main these: :gawmelee::zeldamelee::roymelee::mewtwomelee::nessmelee::pichumelee::kirbymelee::bowsermelee:
 

TDK

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 11, 2015
Messages
3,695
Location
British Columbia
NNID
GrayCN
Here's a tier list based only on those posted in the thread by users who have at least 1 top 3 finish in their smashboards melee records (also including, Hbox, Hax, Laudandus, and Tafokints despite not meeting those conditions)

Tier [1.00 - 5.00): :foxmelee:(1.00) . :falcomelee: (2.64) . :marthmelee: (3.14) . :sheikmelee: (3.64)
Tier [5.00 - 10.00): :peachmelee: (5.71) . :jigglypuffmelee: (6.07) . :falconmelee: (6.93) . :icsmelee: (7.43) . :pikachumelee: (9.29) . :samusmelee: (9.57)
Tier [10.00 - 15.00): :luigimelee: (12.00) . :drmario:(12.15) . :yoshimelee: (12.54) . :ganondorfmelee: (14.27) . :mariomelee: (14.91)
Tier [15.00 - 20.00): :younglinkmelee: (16.23) . :linkmelee: (16.59) . :dkmelee: (17.73) . :gawmelee: (19.91)
Tier [20.00 - 26.00]: :zeldamelee: (20.91) . :roymelee: (21.00) . :mewtwomelee: (21.82) . :nessmelee: (23.00) .:pichumelee: (23.45) . :kirbymelee: (24.64) . :bowsermelee: (24.82)

I would interpret this as:
Good to main: :foxmelee::falcomelee::marthmelee::sheikmelee::peachmelee::jigglypuffmelee::falconmelee::icsmelee::pikachumelee::samusmelee:
Disadvantaged: :luigimelee::drmario::yoshimelee::ganondorfmelee::mariomelee::younglinkmelee::linkmelee::dkmelee:
Don't main these: :gawmelee::zeldamelee::roymelee::mewtwomelee::nessmelee::pichumelee::kirbymelee::bowsermelee:
Here's a prettier looking one:
 

TheBigChew

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 5, 2015
Messages
60
Location
Toronto,Ontario
NNID
Mario.Zelda.SSB4
My list,feel free to reply
1.Fox
2.Falco
3.Marth
4.Shiek
--------------
5.Puff
6.Peach
7.Falcon
8.Ic's
9.Pikachu
10.Samus
11.Luigi
-------------------
12.Doc
13.yoshi
14.Ganon
15.Link
16.Y.Link
17.Mario
18.Dk
----------------------
19.Game and watch
20.Roy
21.Mewtwo
22.Ness
23.Pichu
24.Zelda
25.Bowser
26.Kirby
 

J$~

The King
Premium
Joined
Jul 20, 2014
Messages
6,002
Location
New Orleans, LA
NNID
komfyking
Switch FC
SW 1072 5560 9245
Here's a tier list based only on those posted in the thread by users who have at least 1 top 3 finish in their smashboards melee records (also including, Hbox, Hax, Laudandus, and Tafokints despite not meeting those conditions)

Tier [1.00 - 5.00): :foxmelee:(1.00) . :falcomelee: (2.64) . :marthmelee: (3.14) . :sheikmelee: (3.64)
Tier [5.00 - 10.00): :peachmelee: (5.71) . :jigglypuffmelee: (6.07) . :falconmelee: (6.93) . :icsmelee: (7.43) . :pikachumelee: (9.29) . :samusmelee: (9.57)
Tier [10.00 - 15.00): :luigimelee: (12.00) . :drmario:(12.15) . :yoshimelee: (12.54) . :ganondorfmelee: (14.27) . :mariomelee: (14.91)
Tier [15.00 - 20.00): :younglinkmelee: (16.23) . :linkmelee: (16.59) . :dkmelee: (17.73) . :gawmelee: (19.91)
Tier [20.00 - 26.00]: :zeldamelee: (20.91) . :roymelee: (21.00) . :mewtwomelee: (21.82) . :nessmelee: (23.00) .:pichumelee: (23.45) . :kirbymelee: (24.64) . :bowsermelee: (24.82)

I would interpret this as:
Good to main: :foxmelee::falcomelee::marthmelee::sheikmelee::peachmelee::jigglypuffmelee::falconmelee::icsmelee::pikachumelee::samusmelee:
Disadvantaged: :luigimelee::drmario::yoshimelee::ganondorfmelee::mariomelee::younglinkmelee::linkmelee::dkmelee:
Don't main these: :gawmelee::zeldamelee::roymelee::mewtwomelee::nessmelee::pichumelee::kirbymelee::bowsermelee:
This is pretty solid!
 

Jim Jam Flim Flam

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
87
Location
VA BABY
My list,feel free to reply
1.Fox
2.Falco
3.Marth
4.Shiek
--------------
5.Puff
6.Peach
7.Falcon
8.Ic's
9.Pikachu
10.Samus
11.Luigi
-------------------
12.Doc
13.yoshi
14.Ganon
15.Link
16.Y.Link
17.Mario
18.Dk
----------------------
19.Game and watch
20.Roy
21.Mewtwo
22.Ness
23.Pichu
24.Zelda
25.Bowser
26.Kirby
What makes you put Falcon above ICs? Most people put falcon above ICs, but I don't see what about Falcon makes him better overall.
 

1MachGO

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
807
Tier Classification Translator:

Also known as the Speculation Continuum

"Top Tier" = "Almost exclusively based off tourney results"

"High Tier" = "Mostly reinforced by results, but I'll never admit that Pikachu and ICs have more established tournament potential than Falcon"

"Mid Tier" = "At least ONE player gets results with these guys, now how should we arrange them?"

"Low Tier" and "Bottom Tier" = "Lets waste our time speculating about these underdeveloped characters who have no impact on the meta."
 
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pichuplayer

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Messages
230
Location
saffron city
Tier Classification Translator:

Also known as the Speculation Continuum

"Top Tier" = "Almost exclusively based off tourney results"

"High Tier" = "Mostly reinforced by results, but I'll never admit that Pikachu and ICs have more established tournament potential than Falcon"

"Mid Tier" = "At least ONE player gets results with these guys, now how should we arrange them?"

"Low Tier" and "Bottom Tier" = "Lets waste our time speculating about these underdeveloped characters who have no impact on the meta."
uhh just a question what was th point of this post unless your posting it for people new to tier lists
 

Plunder

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 12, 2015
Messages
862
Location
Port Royal
NNID
1337-7734-8008
2015 Tier List for dummies:


A.K.A. How To Waste A Large Amount of Time Just to Change 1 Character's Spot that Should Have Been Changed 5-6 Years Ago (but still really isn't viable)


"Viable Tier" = These are viable, you could win. MUs against characters in this tier are all that matter at the highest level.

"Not Viable Tier" = C'mon now don't do it. You won't ever get top 3 at nationals. Bonus Fact - It's also the tier that people waste the most time arguing about....even though it doesn't matter at all really. womp womp *single tear*
 

1MachGO

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
807
uhh just a question what was th point of this post unless your posting it for people new to tier lists
Just illustrating how contradictory the approach to tier lists are through satire. Sheepish thought paradoxically wanes as less information exists to justify a character's potential. This is why I wish more people would advocate for different approaches to tier lists. I feel like if we had a result based tier list and a popularity based tier list as additional resources, people might reconsider how they approach a topic like this and perhaps be more objective.
 

SPoitter

Interior Crocodile Aligator
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Messages
111
sentiment
best characters -

1 - Fox
2 - Falco
3 - Sheik
4 - Marth
5 - Peach and Jigglypuff tied
7 - Ice Climbers
8 - Captain Falcon
high tier -

9 - Samus
10 - Pikachu
11 - Luigi
12 - Ganondorf
13 - Doctor Mario

mid tier -
14 - Yoshi
15 - Mario
16 - Link
17 - Young Link
18 - G&W
19 - Donkey Kong

low tier -
20 - Mewtwo
21 - Zelda
22 - Ness
23 - Roy
24 - Pichu
25 - Kirby
26 - Bowser
 
Last edited:

Plunder

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 12, 2015
Messages
862
Location
Port Royal
NNID
1337-7734-8008
Sheepish thought paradoxically wanes as less information exists to justify a character's potential.
I'm sure this rather self-indulged sentence sounded good in your head, but sorry man it's just backwards non-sense.

Is it "sheepish thought" when a scientist re-creates an experiment 10 times before coming to a conclusion? Or should they just assume all the calculations and theory are in order and began the mass manufacture for the general public before ever actually testing it?

There is no "paradoxical wane" it's just a complete lack of usage and practical knowledge that makes newcomers think there is more to still develop and discover....but A LARGE MAJORITY of the time there isn't and they are just delusional. No, these characters aren't used as much because it's quite clear they are worse than the character in the next tier above them. They would require an unequal player skill level or luck to win. This game has been out 14 years almost, AND before I hear any retort I'll say - most high level players already knew Yoshi was a good character (but just took way too much effort to maximize at a high level). Yoshi is the last big "surprise" mainstream Melee players will realize....his undeserved low placement was based on results but also on the difficulty of mastering his tech and movement. Honestly though he shouldn't get bumped up too far considering how rare the MU is still, meaning there is a lot of ignorance even from top level players. We're starting to see them learn it and get more decisive wins over AmSa and there are lower level players that can beat him because they actually know the MU and exploits (he's failed to qualify a lot for larger tourneys, losing to lesser players).

So whether you like it or not, a character has to actually prove them selves over and over first to be considered "better" or "worse". The true test of a character is when the other player knows the MU extremely well and has played against the character A LOT.....if they still are able to win THEN and only then is it a legitimate cause for change. For instance Fox is such a commonly played character and MU; we all know every little exploit, combo, KO set up, and option on him.....yet still he's able to win despite the wealth of knowledge against the character.

Anyways even from a purely theoretical POV, I feel 95% of the tier list should look identical. And let's not forget the votes that count are from top professionals. Not you, or I, or almost any of the other people here.
 
Last edited:

pichuplayer

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Messages
230
Location
saffron city
sentiment
best characters -

1 - Fox
2 - Falco
3 - Sheik
4 - Marth
5 - Peach and Jigglypuff tied
7 - Ice Climbers
8 - Captain Falcon
high tier -

9 - Samus
10 - Pikachu
11 - Luigi
12 - Ganondorf
13 - Doctor Mario

mid tier -
14 - Yoshi
15 - Mario
16 - Link
17 - Young Link
18 - G&W
19 - Donkey Kong

low tier -
20 - Mewtwo
21 - Zelda
22 - Ness
23 - Roy
24 - Pichu
25 - Kirby
26 - Bowser
record scratch Marth below shiek?
 

1MachGO

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
807
I'm sure this rather self-indulged sentence sounded good in your head, but sorry man it's just backwards non-sense.

Is it "sheepish thought" when a scientist re-creates an experiment 10 times before coming to a conclusion? Or should they just assume all the calculations and theory are in order and began the mass manufacture for the general public before ever actually testing it?

There is no "paradoxical wane" it's just a complete lack of usage and practical knowledge that makes newcomers think there is more to still develop and discover....but A LARGE MAJORITY of the time there isn't and they are just delusional. No, these characters aren't used as much because it's quite clear they are worse than the character in the next tier above them. They would require an unequal player skill level or luck to win. This game has been out 14 years almost, AND before I hear any retort I'll say - most high level players already knew Yoshi was a good character (but just took way too much effort to maximize at a high level). Yoshi is the last big "surprise" mainstream Melee players will realize....his undeserved low placement was based on results but also on the difficulty of mastering his tech and movement. Honestly though he shouldn't get bumped up too far considering how rare the MU is still, meaning there is a lot of ignorance even from top level players. We're starting to see them learn it and get more decisive wins over AmSa and there are lower level players that can beat him because they actually know the MU and exploits (he's failed to qualify a lot for larger tourneys, losing to lesser players).

So whether you like it or not, a character has to actually prove them selves over and over first to be considered "better" or "worse". The true test of a character is when the other player knows the MU extremely well and has played against the character A LOT.....if they still are able to win THEN and only then is it a legitimate cause for change. For instance Fox is such a commonly played character and MU; we all know every little exploit, combo, KO set up, and option on him.....yet still he's able to win despite the wealth of knowledge against the character.

Anyways even from a purely theoretical POV, I feel 95% of the tier list should look identical. And let's not forget the votes that count are from top professionals. Not you, or I, or almost any of the other people here.
My entire argument is based in the fact that a tier list is approached with inconsistent reasoning in relation to the information available. Sheepish thought isn't inherently bad, and I think there is certainly merit to putting most of your stock into evidence as opposed to theory, but the problem is that this mindset doesn't pervade the entire tier list discussion.

In other words, its fine when a scientist does an experiment 10 times before coming to a conclusion; but it isn't fine when a scientist only does 1 trial for another experiment, calls it a day, and then expects its reasonable to compare the data for both experiments.

So please, spare me the dime-a-dozen confirmation bias argument with Yoshi. People do it all the time with any tier changes at both the low and high end. I remember clearly when people were saying Marth sucked vs. floaties and was falling off the meta or that Falco might be better than Fox. Now people are saying that Marth could be just as good as Fox and Falco might be falling off the meta like it was obvious all along.

"So whether you like it or not", sheep vs. over-theory isn't the debate here. I just want some consistency, and perhaps some honest self-awareness in regards to the ideas being thrown out there. If theory is being used as a substitute as actual data, that SHOULD be acknowledged. And likewise, evidence still allows just as much, if not more room for theoretical debate. My hope is that multiple approaches to a tier list can be discussed in tandem; all with their own clearly defined goals and rules in how to determine order. A hodgepodge of ideas forming a single, inconsistent list is not as useful as 2 or more lists with separate, which separate specific approaches and deliver clear, consistent data.

So you can view me as someone who "self-indulges" or is perhaps a cynic, but all I want are valuable resources for the community and I think the tier list has failed at being that since its inception. I think after you've played the game longer and seeing more meta shifts you'll understand where I am coming from.
 

TacoLord9000

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
69
Location
Waco, TX
I still think it's aMSa, not Yoshi.
Isn't the whole point of a tier list to determine the max potential the character has in the hands of the best player with that character? So if aMSa represents the max potential of the character then Yoshi is clearly better than Mario or Ganon since neither of those characters have had any significant placings anytime recently. The last time I remember Ganon having a significant placing is when Kage double eliminated Mango which was in 2009.
 

Plunder

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 12, 2015
Messages
862
Location
Port Royal
NNID
1337-7734-8008
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