Meta 2015 Community Tier List Voting

[vexoskeleton]

Leffen's opinion should always be taken as a joke. He says this stuff about M2K then gets bodied 14 times by him. He talks crap about Foxes losing to Samuses, then proceeds to get bodied by every Samus main in existence.

just cause he may be hypocritical sometimes doesn't mean his opinions hold no value. even m2k says a lot of stuff when he is thinking rationally that seems odd but they both have more experience and understanding of the game than anyone talking in this thread.

 

[TDK]

just cause he may be hypocritical sometimes doesn't mean his opinions hold no value. even m2k says a lot of stuff when he is thinking rationally that seems odd but they both have more experience and understanding of the game than anyone talking in this thread.

Um, since when was Leffen a reliable source at all? Don't you know not to trust a villan?

 

[TDK]

Leffen's opinion should always be taken as a joke. He says this stuff about M2K then gets bodied 14 times by him. He talks crap about Foxes losing to Samuses, then proceeds to get bodied by every Samus main in existence.

Leffen vs. Plup at EVO 2015 was hilarious.

 

[jasonv12]

I would like an explanation as to why Young Link is considered to be more viable than Link, if anyone has a good one.

 

[1MachGO]

I would like an explanation as to why Young Link is considered to be more viable than Link, if anyone has a good one.

Vastly superior mobility and even, to potentially winning MUs vs. chars like Puff and Peach. There is currently no evidence to suggest Link has competitive potential for any high/top tier MU.

 

[Dire Creeper]

Vastly superior mobility and even, to potentially winning MUs vs. chars like Puff and Peach. There is currently no evidence to suggest Link has competitive potential for any high/top tier MU.

Except Link vs Marth.

 

[R.O.BB^]

This is the community tier list we made on r/ssbm

S TIer
1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Marth
4. Sheik
5. Jigglypuff
6. Peach
7. Captain Falcon

A Tier
8. Ice Climbers
9. Samus
10. Pikachu
11. Yoshi

B Tier
12. Luigi
13. Dr. Mario
14. Ganondorf
15. Mario
16. Young Link

C Tier
17. Link
18. Donkey Kong
19. Mr. Game & Watch

F Tier
20. Ness
21. Roy
22. Mewtwo
23. Zelda
24. Pichu
25. Bowser
26. Kirby

Ganon should be A teir and yoshi should be B tier

 

[1MachGO]

Except Link vs Marth.

If you are basing that off that one time SAUS beat the Moon, I think you are mistaking MU inexperience as a decent MU. No doubt it's better than his matchups vs the spacies and Sheik, but it's definitely among his top 5 or so worst matchups. Link's best high tier MU is probably Ice Climbers.

 

[PKMudkip]

Can someone explain to me how GaW isn't F tier and higher than Ness? I''ve always been confused by GaW's placement.

 

[Plunder]

Can someone explain to me how GaW isn't F tier and higher than Ness? I' expectations always been confused by GaW's placement.

Better match-ups on the top-tiers
Higher placings
Actual representation (Phenom - Kuya - Qerb) that have been able to take sets off better players better characters
Extremely superior recovery
Better Ledge play and options and ledge guarding
Throw set ups that work on almost all the cast, can KO at low percents (better grab range)
Better against both FFers and Floaties
Has the disjoint to actually challenge Marth and other rangy characters

He's probably not too far from bottom tier, and he's definitely not viable at a high level. But I'd agree with the top players that he's better than Ness.

What would your reasoning be for Ness being above G&W?

 

[PKMudkip]

Better match-ups on the top-tiers
Higher placings
Actual representation (Phenom - Kuya - Qerb) that have been able to take sets off better players better characters
Extremely superior recovery
Better Ledge play and options and ledge guarding
Throw set ups that work on almost all the cast, can KO at low percents (better grab range)
Better against both FFers and Floaties
Has the disjoint to actually challenge Marth and other rangy characters

He's probably not too far from bottom tier, and he's definitely not viable at a high level. But I'd agree with the top players that he's better than Ness.

What would your reasoning be for Ness being above G&W?

DJC
Aerial attacks can combo into one another
Smash moves can juggle
OK match ups with mid tier

That's all I have. Thanks for helping

 

[MagicScrumpy]

If you are basing that off that one time SAUS beat the Moon, I think you are mistaking MU inexperience as a decent MU. No doubt it's better than his matchups vs the spacies and Sheik, but it's definitely among his top 5 or so worst matchups. Link's best high tier MU is probably Ice Climbers.

Link v Marth is widely considered a pretty even matchup IIRC.

 

[-ACE-]

Advantage Marth. Not to sound simple, but yeah. Very close though. Link's best shot is being an absolute pain in the @$$ with his items, forcing marth to play a very difficult and demanding zoning game. Pretty awesome matchup to watch at high level tbh.

 

[Plunder]

Yep Link v. Marth is pretty dang even, I personally consider it dead even. I consider YL v. Marth to be 40:50 or 45:55.

Also The Moon is never a good judge vs a Low or Mid Tier. I used to think he actively sand-bagged against low tiers on purpose in a "trolling" kind of way. But now I realize that he actually loses to low tiers and mid tiers (perhaps he still purposefully doesn't give his all because he hates low/mid tiers), even ones that he has the specific MU advantage on. He lost to all DJ's lower and mid tiers in a GF (he used 3 different characters on him), he lost to QERB, and many other low/mid mains. Not to take away anything from those players and their proficiency, but it's a pattern and it shows The Moon to be an unreliable gauge for top level play concerning non-top tiers. He just doesn't seem to care to learn or adapt to the MUs.

 

[The Hunter]

S TIer
1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Sheik


A Tier
4. Pikatchu
5. Jiggz
6. Peach
7. Marth
8. Captain Falcon
9. Samus
10. Ice C.


B Tier
11. Yoshi
12. Luigi
13. Dr. Mario
14. Ganondorf
15. Mario
16. Young Link
17. Donkey Kong

C Tier

18. Link
19. Mr. Game & Watch

F Tier
20. Ness
21. Roy
22. Mewtwo
23. Zelda
24. Pichu
25. Bowser
26. Kirby

 

[gmBottles]

S TIer
1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Sheik


A Tier
4. Pikatchu
5. Jiggz
6. Peach
7. Marth
8. Captain Falcon
9. Samus
10. Ice C.


B Tier
11. Yoshi
12. Luigi
13. Dr. Mario
14. Ganondorf
15. Mario
16. Young Link
17. Donkey Kong

C Tier

18. Link
19. Mr. Game & Watch

F Tier
20. Ness
21. Roy
22. Mewtwo
23. Zelda
24. Pichu
25. Bowser
26. Kirby

How do you justify having Pika, Puff, and Peach above Marth?

 

[1MachGO]

Link v Marth is widely considered a pretty even matchup IIRC.

Widely considered doesn't make it true.

Marth/Puff used to be widely considered Puff favor, but now we have a lot of data to know it is clearly Marth favored. Marth players simply tend to be bad at MUs they aren't experienced in but that shouldn't reflect the character. MUs obviously aren't transitive, but it always seemed silly to me that people could argue Marth goes even with someone like Sheik, but suddenly lacks the tools to beat someone like Link.

The only things I could see going for Link in the MU is his keep-away with projectiles and CC. However, they both can be played around and Link's main strategy is all but invalidated on smaller or platform-less stages. A lot of other things, like Link being able to grab Marth OoS, are total myths and the punish game is heavily skewed in Marth's favor since he can do Sheik-esque uthrow set ups and edge guard Link exceptionally well.

The only evidence to suggest Link and Marth are even is hearsay, Aniki vs. Ken (highly outdated) and the Moon vs. SAUS. If the Moon vs. SAUS passes as an example of Link/Marth being even, then I suppose Leffen vs. Plup at Paragon counts as an example of Samus/Fox being even.

Yep Link v. Marth is pretty dang even, I personally consider it dead even. I consider YL v. Marth to be 40:50 or 45:55.

Also The Moon is never a good judge vs a Low or Mid Tier. I used to think he actively sand-bagged against low tiers on purpose in a "trolling" kind of way. But now I realize that he actually loses to low tiers and mid tiers (perhaps he still purposefully doesn't give his all because he hates low/mid tiers), even ones that he has the specific MU advantage on. He lost to all DJ's lower and mid tiers in a GF (he used 3 different characters on him), he lost to QERB, and many other low/mid mains. Not to take away anything from those players and their proficiency, but it's a pattern and it shows The Moon to be an unreliable gauge for top level play concerning non-top tiers. He just doesn't seem to care to learn or adapt to the MUs.

Marth has guaranteed uthrow follow ups on Young Link. All he needs to do is grab him once and its an extended utilt>fair juggle into death. I wish I could say I was exaggerating, but combo'ing YL with Marth is like somewhere in between Roy and Sheik levels of easiness. Marth is also one of the few characters that doesn't have to respect bomb in neutral since he can swat it away with his disjoint.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

link definitely loses to marth. SAUS was just doing crazy **** that made it look good.

 

[pichuplayer]

S TIer
1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Sheik


A Tier
4. Pikatchu
5. Jiggz
6. Peach
7. Marth
8. Captain Falcon
9. Samus
10. Ice C.


B Tier
11. Yoshi
12. Luigi
13. Dr. Mario
14. Ganondorf
15. Mario
16. Young Link
17. Donkey Kong

C Tier

18. Link
19. Mr. Game & Watch

F Tier
20. Ness
21. Roy
22. Mewtwo
23. Zelda
24. Pichu
25. Bowser
26. Kirby

you have GOT to be kidding me Pika 4th 7th i GUESS its fine but 4th explain!

 

[Seal]

My list:

S-Tier:
1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Sheik
4. Marth

A-Tier:
5. Peach
6. Jigglypuff
7. Captain Falcon
8. Ice Climbers

B-Tier:
9. Pikachu
10. Samus
11. Luigi
12. Yoshi
13. Doctor Mario
14. Ganondorf
15. Mario

C-Tier:
16. Young Link
17. Link
18. Donkey Kong
19. Mr Game & Watch

D-Tier:
20. Roy
21. Zelda
22. Mewtwo
23. Pichu
24. Ness
25. Bowser
26. Kirby

 

[g3cci]

Can we discuss whether or not marth or shiek should be third for fun? I personally believe marth, but it seems pretty split from looking through posts.

 

[pichuplayer]

Can we discuss whether or not marth or shiek should be third for fun? I personally believe marth, but it seems pretty split from looking through posts.

its marth no doubt

 

[Dire Creeper]

Can we discuss whether or not marth or shiek should be third for fun? I personally believe marth, but it seems pretty split from looking through posts.

To me it's either Marth over Sheik by a little bit or Marth/Sheik tied.

 

[MalwareDie]

S tier







A Tier




B Tier






C Tier







D Tier





E Tier



F Tier

 

[TacoLord9000]

S tier







A Tier




B Tier






C Tier







D Tier





E Tier



F Tier

S tier





A Tier





B Tier




C Tier





D Tier





E Tier




F Tier





Triple R makes me think Kirby is better than Zelda and there is no real reason to put Marth over Falco, Luigi over Doc, and Samus over ICs.

 

[pichuplayer]

S tier





A Tier





B Tier




C Tier





D Tier





E Tier




F Tier





Triple R makes me think Kirby is better than Zelda and there is no real reason to put Marth over Falco, Luigi over Doc, and Samus over ICs.

better

S tier







A Tier




B Tier






C Tier







D Tier





E Tier



F Tier

bleh

 

[TDK]

S TIer
1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Sheik


A Tier
4. Pikatchu
5. Jiggz
6. Peach
7. Marth
8. Captain Falcon
9. Samus
10. Ice C.


B Tier
11. Yoshi
12. Luigi
13. Dr. Mario
14. Ganondorf
15. Mario
16. Young Link
17. Donkey Kong

C Tier

18. Link
19. Mr. Game & Watch

F Tier
20. Ness
21. Roy
22. Mewtwo
23. Zelda
24. Pichu
25. Bowser
26. Kirby

No. is far too high, 9th is where he should be, is so much better than you give him credit for, he should take 3rd, Peach is better than Jiggs at this point, etc.

Peach above Marth?

Maybe in 2004?

 

[Plunder]

Well actually according to results it's pretty easy to say Peach above Marth right now. A Marth has only made it further as a pocket character, not a main. And even then his results are lower across the board. Right?

 

[TDK]

Well actually according to results it's pretty easy to say Peach above Marth right now. A Marth has only made it further as a pocket character, not a main. And even then his results are lower across the board. Right?

I never really thought about it that way. As such, then yes, Peach above marth may be justificable.

 

[EXCITE!!!!]

i would say that link wins the Marth matchup, not because of SAUS v Moon (trust me, i believed link won before that match), but because he actually forces Marth to approach in a way that most characters cant do. He can also trap Marth in up-airs, which has more range than Marth's down-airs. His grab out ranges any of Marth's ground moves, and while not being able to grab in the air, he can tether to make himself harder to edge guard. A lot of his grab combos work exceptionally well against marth, and he has several tools that work well for edge guarding. I would say that although the punish game does work only slightly better for Marth, Link's neutral game is very much stronger than Marth's, because he has the projectiles to try to force Marth to attack, and he has options to out range Marth.

 

[NextPain]

When will the community tier list be released?

 

[Jim Jam Flim Flam]

Can we discuss whether or not marth or shiek should be third for fun? I personally believe marth, but it seems pretty split from looking through posts.

Marth is 3rd, he is about as good as sheik except he can deal with spacies much better. He can just **** fox and falco on fd and pokemon stadium, and go pretty much even with them on other stages, and sheik doesn't really have the tools to shut down spacies that Marth does. The only bad matchups Marth has are falcon and sheik, and those are at best soft counters. Sheik has a disadvantage, however small, against both spacies, and ICs as well.

 

[pichuplayer]

When will the community tier list be released?

why do i even bother i've said this three times we don't know!!!! sveet said it would be a few weeks

 

[RoyScrub]

How do you guys not know that Roy is the best character? Also, you guys can talk bad about Leffen when you break top 6 rankings in the world.

 

[-ACE-]

Ok Roy scrub.

 

[NextPain]

How do you guys not know that Roy is the best character? Also, you guys can talk bad about Leffen when you break top 6 rankings in the world.

I hope your joking

 

[NextPain]

I hope your joking

Judging by the name and picture I assume its a joke

 

[Plunder]

Did you just.......walk up....slowly.......and reply to yourself?

Spoiler

.....AND double post?

my god....a new level of....

 

[NextPain]

Did you just.......walk up....slowly.......and reply to yourself?

Spoiler

.....AND double post?

my god....a new level of....

NO ONE HAS EVER DONE THAT IN THE HISTORY OF D̶O̶T̶A̶ Smash Boards

 

[pichuplayer]

NO ONE HAS EVER DONE THAT IN THE HISTORY OF D̶O̶T̶A̶ Smash Boards

lol ikr