2013 Community Tier List

[OkamiBW]

how did you choose the voters?

Did this get answered?

 

[Bad Cupboard]

So it's based all on the latest tournament and nothing else. Thanks for backing up what I just said when I stated it's a bunch of garbage.

So beat everyone with Link and prove us wrong.

 

[TheBakonBitz]

So beat everyone with Link and prove us wrong.

I'm not a professional or anything but i'll accept your challenge. I assume you are a fox user, or should I say a whoever happens to be top tier users.

 

[Bad Cupboard]

I'll be awaiting your tournament results
Feel free to PM me whenever you win something

 

[TheBakonBitz]

I'll be awaiting your tournament results
Feel free to PM me whenever you win something

I'm not a professional or anything.

I will admit I'm not good enough to play in tournaments. That won't change if I use Fox or if I use Kirby. All I'm saying is tier lists are just based off the most recent tournament, no real thought is put into it. Any character could beat any character if that said character's player is at a better skill level, that will never change. Heck putting two lvl 9 computers and having them fight 100 times to see who is better would be better than this. Just my opinion.

 

[Bad Cupboard]

I agree with mango that the top 8 characters are all very even, but everything below that is objectively disadvantaged.

 

[danieljosebatista]

All the characters that are above Dr have all the tools to win and lots of weaknesses

Just because its harder to win with some of the characters shouldnt affect how good of

a character of it is.

Mango, at the highest level, doesn't the tier list matter more? All things being equal, it seems logical to me that players who use spacies (well) are going to do better than those who use Marth, Sheik, Peach, Puff, Falcon etc.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Roy is just... so bad.

How isn't he in the bottom tier?

I think he's just a deeply flawed character and I don't understand his potential... if it exists.

I know it's not supposed to matter because we're getting overly specific and this is for the "target" audience but I actually use Roy (and Marth), so can someone explain why he's better than the characters below him? Particularly an entire tier above them? He just seems... so awful

 

[Max?]

Falcon should be placed in the A tier. It's clear he is not a viable character stand alone. Icies placements over the last two years have been notably better than the Falcon mains as well.

Regardless, this is a cool experiment to see how the community feels about things, tho some of people chosen for the final list are quite suspect.

 

[BTmoney]

Roy is just... so bad.

How isn't he in the bottom tier?

I think he's just a deeply flawed character and I don't understand his potential... if it exists.

pivot fsmashing, i've said it like 4 times on this thread and I'm tired of looking at my own text but there you go =] since you mentioned it
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuCCmymFpMU

I partially/mostly agree with Mango's sentiment just because his Falcon is ridiculous vs Falco. That's probably the most ******** MU in the game but he makes it look so doable. And it's not like Westballz is a free Falco lol.

The top 6 are all good enough at a high level to where the better player wins usually and you shouldn't lose just based on the MU. I don't include Falcon or ICs in that category though since some of their MUs you have to outplay your opponent to win and even then you can still lose.

That being said, some characters are still clearly better than others so I have no issue with a tier list but the top 6 are all fine. The top 8 are almost fine. And 9 and lower are not.

 

[lordvaati]

Someone please explain why this tier list isn't a bunch of crap. All of your so called top tier characters are the top 8 in Evo. Seems like you people just take the winners from the most recent tournament and slap it on a word document.

well for one, this tier was worked on by the community here WEEKS before EVO.

aand for 2, if what you said was true Doc & Cap would be switched, since there wee no Falcons in top 8, but Shroomed's Doc was.

the reason why many of those characters were in EVO finals is because those characters are overall the best in the game.....so they win abit more.....not rocket science, dood.

 

[Deathconsciousness]

literally sums up the entire competitive smash community

 

[MaNg0]

The tier list matters less the higher you go up in skill

it matter A LOT at low levels because a decent falco will prob beat a decent marth

but as u go up in skills it doesnt seem to matter as much

whoever plays better will win

 

[Glide24]

The tier list matters less the higher you go up in skill

it matter A LOT at low levels because a decent falco will prob beat a decent marth

but as u go up in skills it doesnt seem to matter as much

whoever plays better will win

Isn't Fox generally considered to be a bad character on lower level play? He's very difficult to get down and has one of the sharpest learning curves. I feel like the tier list matters the most at the Sfat, Shiz, Leffen level of play.

 

[pidgezero_one]

Roy is just... so bad.

How isn't he in the bottom tier?

Bottom tier is comprised of Kirby, Kirby, Kirby, and Kirby. Or have we all forgotten that character is around? (spoilers: yes)

 

[Corona]

Marth to A tier. Or it should have happened. Him and Falcon.

 

[EpixAura]

literally sums up the entire competitive smash community

In all fairness, a couple of those guys look like they want to beat the **** out of me.

 

[Corona]

I will admit I'm not good enough to play in tournaments. That won't change if I use Fox or if I use Kirby. All I'm saying is tier lists are just based off the most recent tournament, no real thought is put into it. Any character could beat any character if that said character's player is at a better skill level, that will never change. Heck putting two lvl 9 computers and having them fight 100 times to see who is better would be better than this. Just my opinion.

You have a lot to learn, young padawan.

 

[mixa]

I have to disagree.

This is hardly important.

 

[Ziodyne]

I will admit I'm not good enough to play in tournaments. That won't change if I use Fox or if I use Kirby. All I'm saying is tier lists are just based off the most recent tournament, no real thought is put into it. Any character could beat any character if that said character's player is at a better skill level, that will never change. Heck putting two lvl 9 computers and having them fight 100 times to see who is better would be better than this. Just my opinion.

Anyone who responded to you that the tier list is based off the most recent tournament results was trolling.

This tier list was decided more on a vote based on well-known community members with good tournament experience (and thus, good knowledge of the game). You see it as the tier list reflecting top 8 at EVO, but most people see THE OPPOSITE, with top 8 at EVO merely asserting that the top 8 characters in the tier list deserved their tier list position. And voting for this ended BEFORE EVO.

I'm inclined to agree with Mango's sentiment that any character above Doc is incredible with their own fair share of good tools to use, but as the tier list goes down from that the character's tools just get worse until the bottom rung is filled with characters with pitiful, pitiful tools compared to the upper tiers.

 

[MaJiK]

Hold up now. HOW do we only have 4 sections and it's labeled S A B F? ? ? S is a Super ranked those that are far above. If you don't have enough sections that is A B C D E F skipping to F means a Failure rank that is barely playable or have a huge disadvantage. Just on the labeling of it alone makes me not take it seriously. S A B F only has A B and S F . . . . Just make it A B C D or include more sections. We have 26 different characters make 2 S ranks 4 A ranks 4 B ranks 4 C ranks 4 D ranks 4 E ranks 4 F ranks. Until then there is NO reason to have S and F it just shows we don't know what the **** we're doing

 

[HugS™]

The tier list changes dramatically all the time based on the characters being used by the best players.

Odd how top level play keeps causing the list to change. Odd how all theories start going out the window as soon as a player decides to win more with a given character...
Weird.

It's as if this list is kind of just saying "here's how good the characters are, but not really, because none of the theory on these characters will mean anything since player skill is the end-all deciding factor."

 

[MegaRobMan]

I'm not as passionate about it as Majik, but I agree. Fox and Falco still average out at ~1, and should be recognized as the gamebreaking ****s they are. Sheik is still not on the same level as them. I still think Marth/Jiggs/Sheik/Peach are interchangeable, and with this Ice Climber influx I envision, sheik is gonna go down since that is among her worst matchups with Falco. I get that sheik beats Marth and (in theory) Peach and that's why she should be where she is, but I don't like it.

<3 Sheik main.

Overall the list seems more accurate, Pika is probably better than Ganon and Yoshi is about as good as DK.

Also low tier is officially 12 characters holy crap.

Also Doc should be in the S tier imho, based on the #s.

Also want to see M2K's opinion.

 

[Ezzee]

I'm not as passionate about it as Majik, but I agree. Fox and Falco still average out at ~1, and should be recognized as the gamebreaking ****s they are. Sheik is still not on the same level as them. I still think Marth/Jiggs/Sheik/Peach are interchangeable, and with this Ice Climber influx I envision, sheik is gonna go down since that is among her worst matchups with Falco. I get that sheik beats Marth and (in theory) Peach and that's why she should be where she is, but I don't like it.

<3 Sheik main.

Yeah, I think wobbles probably made ice climbers more of a thing, and Sheik can't do to much other than try to needle camp until they do something stupid and then try to kill nana. Still though, it should be a while until more good IC mains start showing up

 

[MaJiK]

So Sveet you got a hard of for Black "SABF" or just giving into the list "essentials"? It's an hour later that I heard about this list being done and I just hate that. Loses all credibility

T- Tourney Viability/ Top Rank
Fox, Falco, Sheik, Marth, Jigglypuff, Peach, C.Falcon, Ice Climbers
U- Upset Tier/ Upper Picks
Dr. Mario, Pikachu, Samus, Ganondorf, Luigi, Mario
S- Sub Class/ Sub-standard
Young Link, Link, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Zelda, Roy, Mewtwo, Game & Watch
L- Lowest Chance/ Losers
Ness, Bowser, Pichu, Kirby

At least that way it spells tussle, and it is a fighting game after all.
Use letters that work for what you're describing or just use the standard lettering system. It makes the list credible, it makes you credible, and we can all get on with our lives.

 

[Europhoria]

Kinda surprised at where DK ended up.

 

[rob_bot5]

I still think Marth/Jiggs/Sheik/Peach are interchangeable

I agree with this, but in terms of tournament viability, sheik is losing out. So she should be ranked lowest of the four imo

 

[B.W.]

Overall I like this tier list. I'm iffy about CF being above ICs. Pikachu's place is well deserved with how he's been evolving.

I'm mostly happy about Y.Link being above Link. I think he's at the right spot right now. I've been saying for years he's better than Link.

 

[BTmoney]

The tier list changes dramatically all the time based on the characters being used by the best players.

Well that's implying that the 2010 or this tier list isn't anymore "true" than the first.

Odd how top level play keeps causing the list to change. Odd how all theories start going out the window as soon as a player decides to win more with a given character...
Weird.

I agree with the notion that just because Mango has been playing more Fox recently doesn't suddenly make Fox a better or more viable character.

But at everyone else, I don't see why people are freaking out about this. If you know what a tier list is then there is nothing to be mad at or not understand. I think we just need to redefine and emphasize the purpose of a tier list so that way as long as you know what words mean there can be no controversey other than slight disagreements on placement. Objectively a tier can't be useless or meaningless.

Tier lists are for people that like dissecting the game (or want quick information at an entry level), if you don't like doing it, well don't no one is making you. At the most basic level a tier list is just an extrapolation. It should reflect how good characters are when compared to each other and held against the current meta. A tier list is not telling you how top players are going to do in the head-to-head but it is far from useless. It's more like a suggestion or an outline than a rule.

The best characters in the game are clearly Fox, Falco, Sheik, Marth, Puff Peach.

If you wanted to add separations/classes I'd say:
Fox/Falco (no order)
Sheik
Marth/Puff/Peach (no order, but I like Marth as #4)

Falcon and ICs clearly are not as solid as those 6 but they can do just fine. The top 6 can all place high/win anywhere pretty regularly but lower than that I think it's been proven or at least the trend has been that Falcon/ICs and lower have consistency issues because some of their MUs ask a lot from them.

 

[jayeldeee]

My one question is, why are there 8 S ranked players? It just seems a little excessive to me. Unless you can give me a viable reason, then I'll leave it alone. Besides that, the tier list is completely fine. It hasn't changed all too much.

But the drop from B to F, that's freaking hilarious. I love it.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Community Tier List

127 votes placed
only 28 taken

I am somewhat disappoint.

 

[Beat!]

Mango wins the thread.

 

[Circa]

My one question is, why are there 8 S ranked players? It just seems a little excessive to me.

While I'm not Sveet and as such I can't give an entirely proper answer to this, I'd wager it's because they are the characters who appear to have the tools necessary to win major tournaments (assuming, of course, that a player of proper skill level were to pick them up).

I'm honestly just waiting for the major to happen where Axe just plays his goddamn heart out and gets to grand finals with that Pikachu of his. But then, I think everyone kinda sorta is.

 

[Strong Badam]

why is s tier 8 characters LMFAO

 

[TheBakonBitz]

why is s tier 8 characters LMFAO

Because that's how many people were in the final 8 at Evo.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

S - Top Tier
A - Mid Tier
B - Low Tier
F - Bottom Tier


That clear things up for people?

 

[jayeldeee]

While I'm not Sveet and as such I can't give an entirely proper answer to this, I'd wager it's because they are the characters who appear to have the tools necessary to win major tournaments (assuming, of course, that a player of proper skill level were to pick them up).

That is true. Aren't ranks according to certain skills and complete metagame at the present time? I guess for me, and I usually love this, but it's a little too simple.

 

[Zilyn]

I think this tier list is really good, very accurate to recent playstyles and character improvements. However, at the end of the day the tier list only show the characters with the most Potential, not necessarily the best.

 

[Ezzee]

Because that's how many people were in the final 8 at Evo.

If it was based exclusively on EVO, then why isn't Doc S-Tier and Falcon and Marth A-Tier. Why wouldn't IC's be 2nd? This has been over stated but the tier list isn't set in stone, it's just an up to date analysis seem to have the most potential. The reason yogi jumped up 3 spots is because players have been utilizing him really well at a higher level, showing he has a lot of potential. For example, when the tier list was first made, Zelda was toward the top and Jigglypuff was close to the bottom. Look where they are now. Nobody pros actually follow the tier list, they just play as who they do best with or who fits their style, its just that most pros happen to play S-Tier characters. Any character can become S-Tier at any time

 

[lordvaati]

Because that's how many people were in the final 8 at Evo.

Oy Vey.

Ok Breakdown: tier lists are decided by the following factors: Character Matchups, Character strengths/weaknesses, tournament placements, flexibility on stages, and learning curves. all these factors come together to create the overall rankings of the characters you see now. it is not just solely tournament placement that decides ranks,but these other factors that have been a part of the game for ages. As stated by everyone and thier grandma already, this list and poll was done BEFORE EVO. You act like this list was made based on the EVO results, yet look at the last list from 3 years earlier:you will notice that there are very few differences then to the point where they are almost the same. Now tier lists are never definitive, but the fact remains not all characters in any game, be it Smash, League of Legends, Pokemon, Marvel etc. are not made equal.

Of course t the end of the day, character skill is always mot important, but that does not6 mean all of a sudden just because Taj or Gimpyfish(or Xian at EVO) win stuff tiers are suddenly a lie.