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2010 MD/VA Complete Rankings: Updated with Woodbridge Results

NO-IDea

Smash Lord
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Colors represent percentile placements; each different color means the next 10%. Therefore, in TIO, you would be seeded with "Skill 10" if in upper 10% range.

Rankings are skewed due to upsets that occurred during tourney and lack of versatility concerning number of opponents on record. Bear with the data for now until future tournament results come in.

Current Season: April '10-August'10



To download the latest data, please go here.

Tournaments Used
4/24/10 ATHF Presents: $5 Venue Fee
5/1/10 Woodbridge Presents: Peons Only! Short notice tourney Ft. ChuDat!
 

NO-IDea

Smash Lord
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How to Improve your Ranking:

[collapse=A) Develop your Personal Record]Your personal record is composed of two Player statistics: Win-Loss ratio based on matches, and Win-Loss ratio based on sets. I'll be keeping track of all your progress and all your tournament play to the utmost accuracy. These statistics are never cleared, and continue to follow you throughout every season. This is because what the W:L ratios do is fundamentally compare your performance against the performance of every other MD/VA smasher. Your ranking is highly dependent on these numbers, so it should be your aim to have this number as high as possible.

How? Simple. Go to as many tournaments as possible (only tournament matches/sets are recorded) and DON'T LOSE. Not a match, not a set. For every loss incurred, you decrease your W:L ratio. Mathematically speaking, the denominator increases per loss. On the other hand, wins can make your W:L ratios go phenomenally high. Consider the following:

42 set wins/10 set losses vs. 70 set wins/40 set losses.
The W:L ratio computes to 4.20 vs. 1.75. That's over 2x greater!


There is no limit to your ratio. However, you can obtain a ratio that is 0>x>1.0. This can be detrimental! Avoid it!

Finally, an important aspect to acknowledge is that for every win your incur, you are lowering another smasher's record. The inverse also applies: your losses are improving another smasher's ratio. This is a true way of comparing yourself to everyone else. The more diversified your record is, the more accurate the data will reflect your ranking. [/collapse]

[collapse=B) Increase your Unweighted Total Scores] The "Total" statistics are temporal and are cleared after every season. They are meant to track your performance over a specific period of time. They are composed of ratios: Total Wins/Total Matches and Total Wins/Total Sets. Again, to improve this area of your record is simple: go to more tournaments and win! OoS tournaments count towards this as well. You must post your results in the thread, along with a URL to the tournament results thread. The results thread must hold a bracket image of the singles event.

This statistic is meant to reflect what you personally achieve at every tournament or, in other words, how you normally fare. The ratio can never exceed 1.0. Therefore, that value is the ideal. Any loss destroys this ideal, and for every loss incurred, you will need several wins to mitigate the damage to your record. In the end, this statistic is included to measure your consistency. Careful not to lose to randoms and cause upsets, as this will in turn diminish your credibility and record.[/collapse]

[collapse=C) Increase your Weighted Total Scores]If you consider your Personal Record the foundation of your ranking, and Unweighted Totals Scores as the supplement, then Weighted Total Scores is the dominant variable. It accounts specifically for how well you place, your attendance, and a money match factor for extra credit. This other pair of "Total" statistics is also temporal and cleared after every season.

The Weighted Total Wins/Total Matches and Weighted Total Wins/Total Sets are computed based upon how successful your placings are in tournament. The longer you get through Winner's Bracket, the higher the reward. While somewhat lower, Loser's Bracket also holds the same fruits as winning in the Winner's Bracket.

For example, the multipliers are applied in a 64-man bracket by the following:
x1.000 = WB Round 1, LB Round 1
x1.500 = WB 2, LB Round 2
x1.875 = LB Round 3
x2.250 = WB Round 3, LB Round 4
x2.812 = LB Round 5
x3.375 = WB Round 4, LB Round 6
x4.219 = LB Round 7
x5.063 = WB Round 5, LB Round 8
x6.328 = LB Round 9
x7.594 = Winner's Finals, Loser's Finals
x11.391 = Grand Finals


This is to directly assess how you place in tourney in order to determine your rankings. This multiplier also rewards increased attendance when in tandem with consistent performance. OoS tournaments count towards this as well. You must post your results in the thread, along with a URL to the tournament results thread. The results thread must hold a bracket image of the singles event.

Finally, there is the Money Match Multiplier, otherwise known as MMM. It serves solely as a bonus mechanism, just like all other multipliers stated. The minimum MM is $5. There is no maximum and no penalty to losing a money match. To achieve the bonus, you must however challenge a player of equal or higher ranking tier than yourself. Be sure to check the current rankings list to find what tier you are in, and what tier your opponent is.

Tiers are determined by percentiles of 10. Thus, the multipliers are as follows:

x1.00 = Within the same tier
x1.10 = One tier higher
x1.21 = Two tiers higher
x1.33 = Three tiers higher
x1.46 = Four tiers higher
x1.61 = Five tiers higher
x1.77 = Six tiers higher
x1.95 = Seven tiers higher
x2.14 = Eight tiers higher
x2.36 = Maximum difference between skill levels


All money matches must be reported to this thread, along with confirmation from your opponent. If the opponent is OoS, I will gauge the skill level of your opponent in comparison to you and add the bonus to your record.[/collapse]
 

CT Chia

Smash Obsessed
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mkay, this can live on in the social area for now

collaborate with the power rankings and try to manage it all under one thread, which is the best idea imo
 

~Pink Fresh~

Smash Master
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I feel like this could become part of the PR dicussion if a case ever arises about a tie breaker or something.

Or, if they actually start looking at wins/losses, then this could portray the amount of weight a win/loss would carry.

you got this.
 

GimR

GimR, Co-Founder of VGBootCamp
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Cool



Could there be an oos bonus like the mm bonus?

Like if I go out of state and beat ally, could I get rewarded for that also?
 

NO-IDea

Smash Lord
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For Player Statistics, OoS and MMs won't be recorded. Your individual player statistics are like your permanent record; they are never cleared and hold your matches/sets against every other MD/VA player only.

For Match statistics, weighted and un-weighted, OoS and MMs can make a difference. For OoS tournies, you're awarded just like every other tourney. All your match and set wins are included, and a multiplier is added for any win against a PR'd player from a different region. The multiplier will be similar to the MMM: if you're not on the PR and your opponent was, be it ADHD from NJ, or Ally from Canada, then you'd get a bonus based upon the tier difference. If you and said player are in the same tier of skill, no multiplier is added. If he's below you, well you don't get a bonus period.

The reason why you won't be given a multiplier for beating a PR in our own region during tourney is because your win causes a double effect. A) You raise yourself, but more importantly, B)You lower and potentially ruin their record. That in itself is a reward of its own.

If you consider wins the numerator, and losses or matches the denominator, beating a PR'd player of this region would mean the numerator stays the same, the denominator increases, thus lowering their record. It's like you added 5 to your score AND subtracted 5 from his.

Hope that makes sense.
 

GimR

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I'll make sure to update you with who I beat and who I lost to each weekend
 

theCook

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In retrospect;

I'm slightly against the MMM. I think it's an unnecessary addition that makes the calculation incredibly more difficult (and data more difficult to keep track of) without adding much to the the credibility or accuracy of the list.

All in all, though, still a fan of this. Agree with GIMR: OoS wins should be worth more imo.
 

NO-IDea

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In regards to the calculation: it's actually very easy now that I've got it down in Excel. As far as the record-keeping goes, I will only keep track of what is reported to me. Players have the responsibility to tell me if they've won a MM, with whom, and confirmation of such win.

I'll see how the MMM goes. I think it'll be manageable, but we'll see after this weekend! =D Worst case scenario, I take it out and it saves me time.
 

Aposl

Smash Ace
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hey no idea, we need to keep these stats for commentators as well. This could help make commentators so much more legit if they had this list and was like "gimr won three times against aposl in tourney, but he has lost 2 mms against him" it would just be super legit and professional, so I am for this. Statistics = sport XD

Also crew mates and mm stats shouldnt happen. Boss could be in a crew with some scrub like deez and lose on purpose to help his stats. Jk deez.
 

NO-IDea

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Crew mate stats, I'm not sure. This is because when you enter a singles tournament, you are expected to represent yourself, not your crew, not your region, not your friends. They can share in the glory, but when it comes down to it, you determine your own performance. Therefore, if you're facing a crew mate, you are expected to play at your best, because the tournament match is there to decide who is better between the two players. If, for your example, Boss wants to concede to Deez, that's fine. But then it's going on his permanent record as a loss.

This actually approaches another issue I'm concerned with, which is seeding. I've come to realize that affiliation shouldn't matter when it comes to seeding a bracket. If you want the most accurate results, you need to have the bracket made with skill as the only factor. Tio normally does a good job with seeding, but if and only if each player is accurately designated their player skill (from 1-10) and the TOs don't mess with it afterwards. We find problems when we find out a player wasn't seeded correctly, or the fact that sometimes only 5-10 is used when ranked for seeding, inferring that the skill level between players isn't big. Which is wrong to assume; that assumption leads to bad sets played down the line.

From Tio Guide:
Q: What is the best way to seed my event?

Skill-based seeding can be used if you are able to accurately assign a numerical skill value to each player in your event. However, you may be better off using Manual seeding in that case, as Skill seeding must randomly pick between players of equal skill during seeding, while you might want a specific seeding order for some of the best players.
If only 5-10 is being used to judge skill in Tio, the seeding becomes less accurate because Tio thinks the 5-6 people with skill level as 7 are all even in skill (which isn't the case.) Usually, this results in TOs seeding their brackets through the "Manual" function, where TOs are given the option to simply place players into "Expert, Intermediate and Beginner" groups. The problem with this is that they're practically saying, instead of ranking 5-10, let's simply narrow it down to 8-10. Which is why TOs usually then have to look at the bracket and make manual changes of their own discretion. .

And this is why brackets take so long to make, events start late, and occasionally the seeding is dumb. The more clear and defined we can rank skill level, the more accurate the brackets will be made.



I will not be keeping track of doubles and crew battle matches. I haven't found a way to accurately incorporate them since there are even more variable factors to account for than there are in singles. If I figure out a way, then I'll be sure to update the OP with the system used to do it.

MM stats will only be applied per season, and will not affect overall record that is kept for players. Not to mention it's bonus is small unless you're actually MMing a bunch of players that are your skill level or higher.

I will keep the spreadsheet open to the pubilc, downloadable by some server probably.
 

Aposl

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when i said crewmates and mm stats i meant crew mates mming shouldnt apply, not crewmates in tourney etc... just mms between crewmates because people can bull **** their way into improving their stats. And people will try, but you cant make a perfect system and this idea still kicks arse!
 

NO-IDea

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Data has been uploaded. Results are skewed, thanks to small upsets during tourney. Bear with the results please.
 

TheTantalus

Smash Hero
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Also, I can't believe you made ee

"EEvirus"

Whether intentional or mistake, that is hysterical

Also, it's "MysteryTigerTeen" you had it backwards
 

GimR

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I'm confused as to why I'm 19th I got 9th at the tourney and beat neo. Since this is the only tournament so far could u please explain my ranking? I know you said its based only on the first tourney I cant see why I'm placed so low.

Thx, you're awesome for doing this.
 

TheTantalus

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Beating Neo might not be worth a lot since he got 9th.

Like I think the reason I'm so high is because I took takeover to game 3 and he got 4th
 

GimR

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o btw I won 3 sets and lost 2

I went to game 3 agasint Neo

I also went to game 3 against Candy who got first

I think Korn is the only other person at the tourney who took a round off of candy.

I didn't go to game 3 against Oath

I did go to game 3 against the first person I played

Takeover 2-0'd me
 

NO-IDea

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It's weird, but I'll explain.

@GIMR: Total matches won for you was 7. Total matches loss was 5. Now, ideally, since you placed 9th, you want to walk away with less losses overall under your belt. Meaning, you can get match wins all you want, but you can't be giving away matches to lesser opponents. Because of seeding error, you didn't necessarily get lesser opponents (Juno, Oath, Neo, Candy, Takeover.) So that explains why your W:L Matches is lower. Please remember this is only off of one tourney, so of course it has some errors.

Furthermore, when you look at W:L Sets, you see that you're even with me and NKB, right? Well, even though we placed lower than you, we played the same amount of sets. This is because this ratio is meant to account for byes and sudden upsets during tourney. Speed, HAT and NEO, while all placing 9th place, had actually played one set more than you. This is because the following three were sent into Loser's earlier, either due to upset or seeding error, meaning they had to play more opponents during tourney. In fact, for that matter, Tantalus ended up playing more sets (4 sets won, 2 sets lost) than you did (3 sets won, 2 sets lost) despite placing lower overall.

Now here is something interesting. If you consider your win against Neo an upset, something seeding could not predict, and therefore consider what would of happened had you lost... well look at the bracket. You would have played me, probably won, played TheTantalus, perhaps win, and then play Logic. If you get to that point, you still place 9th. However, Neo would have probably placed higher overall, meaning the tourney results would be more accurate. (Even this isn't the case, however, because then Neo v Candy would have happened... far before winner's finals. Another seeding error that can't be seen until 3-4 matches down.) But, upsets do happen, and seeding can't account for it.

Let's examine TheTantalus. Looking over all his sets, he never gave up a loss during his won sets, and managed to take a game off Takeover during his elimination. In other words, he was close to obtaining the ideal record you want out of a tournament: All wins 2-0, all losses 1-2. In fact, going off of that, NEO was able to obtain this. What it means is that the disparity of skill between your lost matches wasn't much, while the disparity of skill between your won matches was. Now, given Tant's opponents (Aposl, Takeover, Nate14, Seagull, Sin), you could see how he could come out of this tournament with an overall better record than you.

Now, if TIO would have known that you should have a higher seed than Tant, then imagine the outcome that way: you'd be having Tantalus's opponents, while he'd be having yours. Remember, the results are meant to reflect seeding errors as well.

You can download the data at the bottom of the OP to analyze all player's results. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask. It is confusing at first, and even wrong in some areas, but that's only because ONE tournament results thread was used. Upsets and seeding errors explain the outliers. Once 4-5 results threads are incorporated, then we'll start seeing a good list.

@Tant: Phil told me he didn't want to be recorded in the results because he didn't mean to enter this tourney to compete. It's not his name.... right? xD

But ****, I got Tiger's name mixed up. I'll fix it in a bit.
 

TheTantalus

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Summary of noids post: i was seeded too low

I never give myself the benefit of the doubt when it comes to my own seeding to avoid chudat bias
 

Aposl

Smash Ace
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Summary of noids post: i was seeded too low

I never give myself the benefit of the doubt when it comes to my own seeding to avoid chudat bias
This isnt a jaun

But yeah you did, and that bracket screws others. (not talking about me, I should have steped it up)
 

Aposl

Smash Ace
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This is GIMR



Well then Winners Bracket matches should count higher then losers bracket matches because people who get further in the winners bracket have to play better people earlier and beat better people in order to get better placings and have to play fewer matches.


For example: Neo had to play 6 sets to get 9th, I only had to play 5

but that's because I did better in winners then he did. Why should I be punished for how well I did in winners.

Look who Neo lost to:

GIMR: 9th
P~S: 7th


Look who I lost to:

Candy: 1st
Takeover: 4th


I'd also like to point out that I beat a ranked player while NEO didn't beat any ranked players. Win loss ratio shouldn't be the only thing taken in account for when it comes to this list.

Do you see what I'm getting at?


PS: the only reason I"m using NEO as an example is because you did first
 

TheTantalus

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Just to give an idea of seeding:

When I do a bracket, it's evenly divided. There are even number of all the seeds that "matter". In this particular bracket, 8 was the best number. So there were 8 top seeds, 8 2nd seeds, 8 3rd seeds, 8 4th seeds, 8 5th seeds, and the rest were 6th seeds.

I was a 4th seed. I should have probably been a 2nd seed or 3rd seed, but did not want to get accused of "rigging the bracket".

1st seeds: Boss, Korn, Candy, Meep, NEO, Coney, Junebug, Logic
2nd seeds: SonicMaster5, HAT, Takeover, GIMR, ESOJ, Lie, Pink Fresh

Edit: I agree totally with GIMR that winners sets should be worth more than losers sets, they really need to be accounted for because if you win the tournament you might only have to play 5 sets
 

NO-IDea

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Okay, give me 10 minutes. Nothing has been applied to weighted statistics yet because this is the first tourney and no notable MMs were done.

I'm going to apply a multiplier to account for differences in matches won in Loser's and matches won in Winner's. Then I'll check if there is an improvement in the rankings. If so, I'll post that list up.

Also, do any of you have adobe photoshop? I need to convert the .pdf file to an image file so it can be viewed on the boards. I used my roommate's laptop to do it last night, but he's not here right now.

EDIT: Okay it's going to take more than 10 minutes. lol
 

TheTantalus

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I thought it would. Winning more sets is worth points, but winning sets in winners is like winning 2 in losers, i.e.

You'll skip spots by winning in winners if you play in a bracket that can be divided by 4 and 8 evenly (i.e 8, 16, 32, 64, 128)

So you're all guaranteed 49th or better at the start of the tourney on saturday, winning one round in winners guarantees you'll finish at least 33rd, then another win guarantees 17th, then another win guarantees 9th, one more is 5th, and another win is 3rd. One more win is 2nd.

So you see how it skips 25th, 13th, 7th, 4th

Basically, one win in winners = 2 wins in losers. So lets say i win 3 games in winners- i'm guaranteed 9th.

Now lets say i lose first round and win 3 rounds in losers, i'm only guaranteed 17th.
 

NO-IDea

Smash Lord
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Check out the guide at the front to see how rankings are determined.

Also, to reiterate, Tantalus is high in the rankings because of his current record against the following opponents: Aposl, Nate14, Takeover, Sin, Seagull. Once Tantalus's record gains variety and he has sets against more players, you'll see him go down and the appropriately ranked players to rise. This is only off of one tourney, and I'm doing all the fixes necessary for the system in preparation for future tourney results.
 

Remzi

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This is really cool, definitely a nice perk to placing well in tournaments.
 

NO-IDea

Smash Lord
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Updated with Woodbridge Results.

16-man tournament has a 12.5% multiplier per advancement in WB.

Movements:
-1 June: Lost to Candy 6-2
-3 Korn: Lost to Candy, Lost to PS in Loser's after beating him in Winner's
+3 PS: Good overall performance
-7 Meep: Sandbagged with Marth (rofl)
-3 Boss: "Didn't do as well as Greenbelt's (harder to place 5th at 63-man than in 16-man tourney)"
-3 Lie: ""
-8 ESOJ: ""
-5 GIMR: ""
-7 BMX: ""
-7 Kenrawr: TO'd the tourney, ran the venue

Everyone else just shifted accordingly.
 

SOVAman

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Updated with Woodbridge Results.
-1 June: Lost to Candy 6-2
D;

-3 Korn: Lost to Candy, Lost to Ps in Loser's after beating him in Winner's
Get *****

+3 PS: Good overall performance
Da f

-7 Meep: Sandbagged with Marth (rofl)
Best Marth

-3 Boss: "Didn't do as well as Greenbelt's (harder to place 5th at 63-man than in 16-man tourney)"
ROFL, time to train at burger palace

-7 BMX: ""
Wow get dooshed on
 

GimR

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lol im starting to hate this list.

I think losing to higher players should have less of an effect. and I think beating lesser players should have less of an effect.

I mean that just makes sense to me.

I mean I beat lie round one, but because Meep went Marth against Taj Lie got a pretty easy bracket and didn't beat anyone notable yet because of a better W/L ratio he gets put up higher.


I haven't lost to anyone in tournament who didn't get top 4 at that tournament, and I lost to 1st place twice(Candy)


Just sayin'



Edit: and how is June 3rd? He got 2nd twice in a row and this weekend he only lost to Candy.

I'm not hating on you No-Idea, I feel your awesome for working so hard on this and I know you put a lot of work into it. I just feel a lot moree factors need to be put into the equation before this list is accurate.
 
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