Official 1.1.6 Patch Notes/Patch Discussion

[Pancracio17]

I think she probably got more 'd or even 'd rather than 'd. But eh, ill probably still main her.

 

[S_B]

Reminder that when people datamined the Cloud patch it only had a few of Cloud's voice clips and only one of the two mii costumes, and no balance changes... Until the actual full patch was released later on, after the direct. This might not be the end.

I very much hope this is the case.

Remember another thing here, folks: Diddy was nerfed like crazy, then buffed back up over time, mostly with buffs to his smashes to focus his gameplay around landing those critical banana confirms into smashes (instead of hoo-haa).

As I've said in the past, I firmly believe that SSBNX is going to be SSB4 Deluxe with all DLC on the disc as well as new characters, stages, etc., and all current balance changes rolled in as well.

Ergo, they're very likely overnerfing Bayo now just to stop the bans, then they'll slowly rebuff over the next few patches to bring her back up a bit. Remember, the ideal situation for a fighting game to be in is "C Tier: everyone", so that's what they'll probably shoot for.

 

[IPoit]

Just #BuffThePuff already, is that much to ask? (And Wii Fit )

I Think bayo will stil be a good, Idon't think a 0-death like the ones bayo had should have been a thing.

 

[SpaceCanary]

I think Bayo's viability hinges on whether she can still pull off combos or not. If she can still combo to a reasonable degree for damage racking, then she still has Witch Time into a smash attack to kill early. But if anyone worth his or her salt at DI and SDI can escape her combos after the first Witch Twist, then she's probably no good because she won't be able to get her opponents up to kill percent before she dies herself. I suppose we'll just have to wait and see. . .

 

[RedMarf78]

I see Bayonetta is truly going through what Sheik went through.

People completely going overboard with how bad she got nerfed.

Seriously, go back and read some of the comments back when Sheik got nerfed. People thinking she would be mid tier, that she would never kill before like 180%, that she would vanish off of the face of the earth in tournaments except for the super dedicated mains like Void. They were doing what people are doing now: going through and making lists of how horrible the change is and explaining how nothing works well for her anymore.

And... she's still top 3 in results.

Bayonetta is not going anywhere. Seriously, calm down. The number of people with their hands on the new version is amazingly tiny. Wait for it to be released to the public and give the lab type mains a good 3-4 weeks before you even think about trying to figure out how good or bad she is now. Because I can guaranteed you the majority of you will be wrong. Because you were wrong about Sheik and Diddy Kong before and they lost equally critical things. Sheik's 50/50 and Diddy's kill confirm were just as important as Bayonetta's extreme level of combos (Diddy's kill confirm more so really and he's possibly best in the game atm).

The month or so of labbing will decide how good Bayonetta is, not the overboard reactions in here.

I see what you're saying but on the topic of Diddy while he did lose hoo-hah he still had throws that comboed (although with a not very high damage output). Also he has smash attacks that are faster than Bayo in terms of both endlag and start up plus his smashes have more reliable set ups in the form of the virtually unpunishable down tilt and his bananna. Personally I never thought the nerfs would bring shiek down to mid tier so no comment there. Anyway, while I agree that its possible that we're being hasty and that the Bayo nerfs might not be as bad as we think, I also think that you're of downplaying their severity a bit. (Then again I could be horribly about the nerfs being significant in which case good on you for predicting the future)

 

[Vipermoon]

Bayonetta didn't even get witch time nerfed there is no way she's not ridiculous still.

I'm guaranteeing you there are just going to use methods to kill from the side instead of up and she'll still be busted anyways.

WT got a huge nerfed in the prior patch and it's enough as it. Now if you get WT'd once you can go balls to the wall on her and she can't do anything about it because of reload times.

 

[pikazz]

https://vid.me/Sxk9

this is how the UpB looks like with SDi set to 2

 

[Tayman]

 

[RedMarf78]

https://vid.me/Sxk9

this is how the UpB looks like with SDi set to 2

REST IN PEACE. IT'S OVER. I really hope that this video is incorrect.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

https://vid.me/Sxk9

this is how the UpB looks like with SDi set to 2

Not even the final hit connected.....
Bayonetta has no combo. She really doesn't.

 

[Respect38]

Good lord, Nintendo really dropped the ball on this one, damn.

Will Bayonetta players get their 5.99 back?

 

[A2ZOMG]

My biggest concern about the Bayonetta nerfs is what is the point of dABK now? Its combo potential got completely murdered and its damage took a hit too. I'm struggling to imagine a reason to use it now.

The rest of the nerfs seem much more manageable. Possibly annoying depending on how the SDI pans out on Twist, but manageable. dABK is the only question mark in my mind.

One of the best escapes in the game period, on a character who has the strongest counter in the game.

Now bad players won't divekick shields unnecessarily.

 

[RandysRage]

https://vid.me/Sxk9

this is how the UpB looks like with SDi set to 2

The witch hunts are over, indeed.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

One of the best escapes in the game period, on a character who has the strongest counter in the game.

Now bad players won't divekick shields unnecessarily.

Stop with the Witch Time overrating. All she has from it is fully charged Smashes now. It is not the best counter in the game anymore.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

https://vid.me/Sxk9

this is how the UpB looks like with SDi set to 2

Pardon me while I pick my jaw off the floor. That looks awful.

Does doing Twist on an airborne target directly above you perform any better?

 

[Meistermayo]

Why did this take 300 mb for the ds?

 

[SoccerStar9001]

Pardon me while I pick my jaw off the floor. That looks awful.

Does doing Twist on an airborne target directly above you perform any better?

A problem with that is you lost 2% on the first hitbox. DK escape with the combo counter saying 2 and the hitbox is smaller too.
It is probably doesn't help her combo much. Especially if you are aiming to hit on frame 17 part.

 

[adom4]

Stop with the Witch Time overrating. All she has from it is fully charged Smashes now. It is not the best counter in the game anymore.

You're just proving his point lol.

 

[CaptainJiggz]

Why did this take 300 mb for the ds?

Revisions.

 

[ReroRero]

Stop with the Witch Time overrating. All she has from it is fully charged Smashes now. It is not the best counter in the game anymore.

Killing at 60% no matter what attack you counter is indeed the best counter in the game

 

[Aife]

Stop with the Witch Time overrating. All she has from it is fully charged Smashes now. It is not the best counter in the game anymore.

The only counter that comes close to that potential is Corrin, what the heck. If its not the best, it fights for the best, although I seriously have my doubts it isn't after this patch.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

You're just proving his point lol.

I didn't even counted the fact that it has the shortest active frames for a counter and it decays heavily after use.
Plus the fact her smashes can't reach enemies that are above high and you can only unleashed a fully charged smashes attack with a fresh Witch Time.

 

[adom4]

I didn't even counted the fact that it has the shortest active frames for a counter and it decays heavily after use.
Plus the fact her smashes can't reach enemies that are above high and you can only unleashed a fully charged smashes attack with a fresh Witch Time.

And it has the lowest FAF out of any counter + bat within shenanigans.
And the fact that a fresh witch time near the ledge is pretty much a death sentence because of D-smash.

 

[TurboLink]

https://vid.me/Sxk9

this is how the UpB looks like with SDi set to 2

Jesus Christ! I can't wait for the patch.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

And it has the lowest FAF out of any counter + bat within shenanigans.
And the fact that a fresh witch time near the ledge is pretty much a death sentence because of D-smash.

It takes around 20 seconds to unstale a Witch Time. Bat Within has reduced duration and doesn't counter grab.
Getting a fresh Witch Time near the ledge is significantly harder than you think. And messing up once require waiting for 20 seconds to try again. Not to mention counters aren't easy to get.l, and easy to mess up.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

After I saw she was banned in a region, I was hoping for a nerf to make sure that gets lifted. She does have some ridiculously op tools, and now most(but Witch Time) are gone. I'm okay with this.

She's still ridiculously awesome, but not really broken anymore. Still easily high tier.

 

[dakotaisgreat]

Try to look at it this way Bayonetta mains, the more she was damaged, the more credit people will actually give you when you beat them. I very highly doubt Bayonetta went from spot 1-2 down to below the tenth spot, she's more than likely still very viable. People should honestly take Bayonetta players more seriously now, and start feeling as if they lost to the player rather then the character. Stick with her and you'll only look better for doing so.

Besides, a lot of the hate for the character started up on her release, before she was nerfed. She was ridiculous then, be honest. Someone earlier in the thread said it best, in Bayonetta's first month she wracked up more wins then half the cast had up to that point. I don't understand the salt I'm seeing from some Bayonetta mains though, the very worst she would possibly be after these nerfs is probably in the top of mid tier, and that's extremely pessimistic. Remember, there are people out there who's favorite character is King Dedede. Hell, I've wanted my secondary to be Mii Gunner since before the game released and I can't even play the character anywhere because people have arbitrarily decided it isn't allowed and there isn't **** I can do about it. Take it graciously and be glad Bayonetta is so good.

Hopefully after some time when we all get comfy with patch 1.1.6, Bayonetta will be just as respected as any other character.

Spoiler

All this talk about giving people more/less credit depending on how good their character is, I wanted Roy ****ing buffed. I don't care how much credit I get for winning with a garbage ass character, I want him to stop being garbage.

 

[Munomario777]

Plus the fact her smashes can't reach enemies that are above high

Right, like Marth's counter can.

Wait...

 

[lordvaati]

Like?

probably bugfixes.

I also wouldn't be surprised if most of the changes on the 3DS version were with the Classic mode either due to it having a few bugs in the MasCore fight and on the credits.

and of course there's still that 8 player amiibo glitch they need to axe.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

Right, like Marth's counter can.

Wait...

Huh?
If Marth counters an aerial move, nothing will stop him.
Bayonetta can only land a bair at most now.

 

[Pyrofishy]

This website loads like trash for me, barely can get through the first two pages of this thread

Has the update actually come out yet or is this still just datamining?
I really bloody hope there's more to it than just this. Palutena needs buffs.

 

[Munomario777]

Huh?
If Marth counters an aerial move, nothing will stop him.
Bayonetta can only land a bair at most now.

What stops Bayonetta from hitting a slowed-down foe who happens to be in midair?

My b if I misjudged the range of Marth's counter btw.

 

[Cook]

It really Irks me that people are taking this out of Proportion. I mean, this coming from someone who has been waiting for a buff for about every patch now. Bayo gets a nerf, okay, it's not like she was wrecked, she still has a bunch of good tools that make her payable, at least your character HAS a bunch of good tools.

And on top of it, there are people actually trying to start up and make it seem like Bayo was balanced and nobody was putting in the effort to play against her. I'm literally seeing people say "UGH, THE SMASH COMMUNITY IS ALWAYS COMPLAINING INSTEAD OF GETTING GOOD, NOW LOOK, BAYONETTA GOT NERFED!"
I will say, some of these nerf are little over, but please stop making it seem like she's worse than Jigglypuff just because you're forced to put slightly more effort into pulling a win.

Don't play Jigglypuff. Boom. Problem solved.

 

[Aife]

It takes around 20 seconds to unstale a Witch Time. Bat Within has reduced duration and doesn't counter grab.
Getting a fresh Witch Time near the ledge is significantly harder than you think. And messing up once require waiting for 20 seconds to try again. Not to mention counters aren't easy to get.l, and easy to mess up.

why the heck would it need to counter grab...?

And I don't particularly think its ez to get an aerial counter on corrin either, the only other counter with close to the potential you have on Bayo.

Seriously this argument about it being the best is semantic at best, distracting at worst. If your point is that its weaker then before, then just say that.

Huh?
If Marth counters an aerial move, nothing will stop him.
Bayonetta can only land a bair at most now.

you were talking about bayonetta's ability to get a smash attack off on a witch time, were you not? No other character gets follow ups...

 

[Kyzon Xin]

It takes around 20 seconds to unstale a Witch Time. Bat Within has reduced duration and doesn't counter grab.
Getting a fresh Witch Time near the ledge is significantly harder than you think. And messing up once require waiting for 20 seconds to try again. Not to mention counters aren't easy to get.l, and easy to mess up.

a fresh Witch Time is still a force to be reckoned with. You can dive kick and they won't fly away from you since they'll be slowed, then you can start comboing towards the ceiling. You'll have to be aware of their SDI, but you might be able to counteract that by B-Reversing your Witch Twists. It's still really good.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

This website loads like trash for me, barely can get through the first two pages of this thread

Has the update actually come out yet or is this still just datamining?
I really bloody hope there's more to it than just this. Palutena needs buffs.

Only the datamine so far. It's unlikely there's more, as we need to redownload all the files from previous changes, not just this one. That's why it's such a big file.

 

[CaptainJiggz]

Don't play Jigglypuff. Boom. Problem solved.

Thank you for missing the whole point of my post.

I wasn't implying that Jigglypuff can't be played without receiving a buff, I feel like for what she's given, Jigglypuff is at a good place, although a buff wouldn't hurt.

I'm not the kind of Person to not play a character simply because they're bad, if that were the case, I would've stopped using a lot of characters including Jigglypuff long ago.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

What stops Bayonetta from hitting a slowed-down foe who happens to be in midair?

My b if I misjudged the range of Marth's counter btw.

Nothing, I said you can't strike with a Smash attack unless they are close enough to the ground or the ledge. In the air, the most you get is a bair.

you were talking about bayonetta's ability to get a smash attack off on a witch time, were you not? No other character gets follow ups...

All other character follow up instantly with a counter that scales with damage and counter moves in Smash 4 are very strong.

a fresh Witch Time is still a force to be reckoned with. You can dive kick and they won't fly away from you since they'll be slowed, then you can start comboing towards the ceiling. You'll have to be aware of their SDI, but you might be able to counteract that by B-Reversing your Witch Twists. It's still really good.

A fresh Witch Time is a force to be reckon with, yes. But you can't combo towards the ceiling, you might be able to follow the first SDIed Witch Twist with another Witch Twist, but you won't be able to do anything after the second SDIed Witch Twist.
Not to mention missing the first hit or the final hit reduces the damage a lot.
Look at DK's %
https://vid.me/Sxk9

 

[Aife]

All other character follow up instantly with a counter that scales with damage and counter moves in Smash 4 are very strong.

Prove to me post patch that aside from Corrin's early kills, the reward bayonetta can get off most witch times is less then the majority of the counter's in this game.

Bayo doesn't need to hit a powerful move to get high damage, neutral moves will suffice.\

 

[blackghost]

Rosa players adapted like 50 times with their changes, yet we still pull through. Sonic was needed with Back throw and other moves, now look at KEN. Sheiks, Diddys, Luigis, MK have fought the need hammer, so why chat Bayo?

WHat change to any of those characters fundamentally destroyed thier playstyle? shes a combo character with no combos. even when luigi was nerfed he received compensation.