- † King DeDeDe's MetaGame Discussion † -

[Vayseth]

If they tech or not, they're going to be hit out of it? Seems a little peculiar.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

New Discovery Yay!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCRgSrqXz_o&feature=channel_page

This can be done on any stage with platforms, Full hop your aerial, use your C-stick at a certain time and FF. Its purpose is attacking with an aerial through a platform to get a lagless landing, this really helps at getting chains of Uair's and Dair's at low percentages.

This works BEST with Uair and Dair.

Fair is "OK"

Bair and Nair are useless...

So yeah... no landing lag = moar combos.

 

[qwertyman]

Sounds complicated. What exactly did you do to get that effect? Break it down.


Back air, neutral air, and forward air can all be lagless without any shenanigans. If I remember correctly, just full hop onto a platform while aerial'ing, and it should look like that.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Umm Uair and Dair are the easiest and the ones that get most effect from this as I said.

All I did was SH -> Cstick for the aerial you want really fast and FF at the end, you shouldn't go through the platform and you'll get a fast lagless landing.

 

[qwertyman]

Oh, simpler than it sounded before. I must have misunderstood something.

Excellent find, should help Dedede's game quite a bit.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

I actually found this while I was testing if King DeDeDe's Dtilt could lock in walls lol

Then I remembered about Auto-land (Basically the same thing but can only be done on certain stages like Lilat cruise and Yoshi's Island)

I was in Onett and I tried do Auto-land (you have to smash Cstick down rly fast to get this done) I didn't do it right but I did found the little lagless platform landing.

 

[CRASHiC]

Vidz or it didn't happen, you know the rules XD

The thing about this is it's only in a wall right? The opponent can tech, which means it isn't an infinite.

Without or without teching, it would only go to 170.
What I need someone to test in the down throws, double jab, jab cancel possible wall chain grab is weather or not you could tech off the wall.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

I just tested this with my friend, I think I did it right and he still could of tech.

I guess this is just good vs someone who doesn't know how to tech.

 

[Jupz]

Yeah at least it adds to DDD's options. I'll try and find other things later tonight.

 

[Vayseth]

It's not new... This was found way back. It's on certain stages and they have to have moving platforms, like lylatt. I'm too lazy to find the thread but I'm sure someone knows what I'm talking about.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Yeah thats called Autoland and It can only be done on moving platforms like Lylatt and Yoshi's Island but this one can be done on all stages with platforms and its also different. Because you aren't jumping directly into the platform like Autoland, YOU DO an aerial and then you land on the platform without landing lag.

 

[Commander_Beef]

I for one am very worried about my little penguin. Will he ever progress? Because if not, players will find ways around him, and it will become incredibly hard to win matches against veterans unless we find new ways to evolve our penguin.

Do not worry my friend. That is why this thread is here. =)

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Updated the OP.

Keep the Knowledge coming guys.

 

[CRASHiC]

Alright. I've done something much better than the fair dair no lag combo.

dair dair no lag :D

 

[sMexy-Blu]

The Fair to Dair lagless combo has a lot of applications.

Fair to Uair.

Bair to Dair.

Bair to Uair.

Dair to Dair.

All those are lagless and pretty much similar and they do work 100%.

 

[qwertyman]

All of Dedede's aerials can be lagless by themselves as well.
Down air to down air is possible, and if you have good timing, you can do down air, down air, down air, still lagless.

There are plenty of ways to mix it up however you want.

 

[Vayseth]

I don't like doing lagless SH dair because everytime I try it seems like it always fast falls me just enough to land with lag =(

 

[qwertyman]

I don't like doing lagless SH dair because everytime I try it seems like it always fast falls me just enough to land with lag =(

How does that happen? It's not just one short hop into a down aerial, if that's what you're doing. You need to.... ahh, my lack of smash vocabulary will kill me someday.
Basically, short hop, then more or less cancel that short hop with a midair jump, then down air or up air, all really quickly.


Also, regarding sMeXy-Blu's discovery about the lagless platform landing thingy:
No fastfall is necessary to achieve the effect. You just have to do a full hop IMMEDIATELY followed by the up or down aerial. The timing is more strict than most, but it's easy once you get it.

 

[Vayseth]

No, I know, I posted about it before. I don't like that one either because it drains two jumps for one move =( In general though, using C-stick down can auto-fastfall if you don't do it right, which makes me land with lag, which is all I'm sayin.

 

[Buuman]

It's not new... This was found way back. It's on certain stages and they have to have moving platforms, like lylatt. I'm too lazy to find the thread but I'm sure someone knows what I'm talking about.

Lylat has weird effects on characters airials because of the tilting of the stage. The thread has died in the excess crap on the boards. I'm not gonna look for it but I know what you're referring to Vayseth

 

[Buuman]

• King DeDeDe's best move to DI with (both horizontally and vertically)

Bair is best for DI'ing horizontally, and Dair is best for DI'ing vertically.

If you want momentum canceling a FF Nair is the best thing to do.

I have to disagree. The Bair air is your best option all the time to Momentum cancel both Vertically and horizontally. Dair is slower so it's inferior to the bair. You always want to initiate the fastest aerial to momentum cancel. Both vertically and horizontally I usually: (Hold down after the initial DI for the fast fall and tap C stick to bair, and immediately after that, the momentum canceling has kicked in, so feel free to use your jump, now obtained from momentum canceling (Bairing), to proceed to the stage with the correct regular DI.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Goon Farming

Did anyone watch that youtube video with the supposed new strategy called goon farming? Does it actually work, or am I just being a noob? If nobody here's seen it, just search king dedede goon farming on youtube.

 

[CRASHiC]

Its old, and what happened was they had items turned to none and not all off. Dededee can still throw items with this on.

 

[Tero.]

Did anyone watch that youtube video with the supposed new strategy called goon farming? Does it actually work, or am I just being a noob? If nobody here's seen it, just search king dedede goon farming on youtube.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=154840

 

[KrazyGlue]

I have to disagree. The Bair air is your best option all the time to Momentum cancel both Vertically and horizontally. Dair is slower so it's inferior to the bair. You always want to initiate the fastest aerial to momentum cancel. Both vertically and horizontally I usually: (Hold down after the initial DI for the fast fall and tap C stick to bair, and immediately after that, the momentum canceling has kicked in, so feel free to use your jump, now obtained from momentum canceling (Bairing), to proceed to the stage with the correct regular DI.

Yeah, Buuman is right. Bair is faster and has about the same priority and Dair, and only slightly less range. Plus, it's better for KOs and Wall-of-pain style play. I like Dair, but I mainly just use it to poke away annoying characters in the air like MetaKnight.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Yeah, Buuman is right. Bair is faster and has about the same priority and Dair, and only slightly less range. Plus, it's better for KOs and Wall-of-pain style play. I like Dair, but I mainly just use it to poke away annoying characters in the air like MetaKnight.

... We are talking are which of those moves are better for D'ing not for uses, priority or range.

 

[KrazyGlue]

... We are talking are which of those moves are better for D'ing not for uses, priority or range.

Oops... well, in that case, I guess it really depends on preference. The difference between the two is probably negligible. I guess if there is a difference, I agree with your original argument (Bair for horizontal, Dair vertical). But I haven't really compared them that much, so I'm just guessing.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Did anyone watch that youtube video with the supposed new strategy called goon farming? Does it actually work, or am I just being a noob? If nobody here's seen it, just search king dedede goon farming on youtube.

Goon Farming... LOL! This is totally useless in competitive play.
DeDeDe doesn't throw many useful items at all... All I've seen him throw are capsules and Dragoon Parts (Which are ******** because DeDeDe only throws one and you need the other 2)

Sooo Goon Farming DOES work but items have to be set "ON" and "NONE" so its not useful like Peach's ability to pull items even if they are set to "OFF and "NONE".

 

[Buuman]

Dair is just less affective. Unless someone can give me a good reason why its better. C stick down yields auto fast falling so dair is convenient if you don't want to press down on the control stick, however to get the same effect as the dair, just tap c stick for bair, and press down simultaneously. Not sure how many of you know but, if you hold down and tap bairs, or any aerial really, you auto fast fall. I can't see why the dair would be better in this case. Once again, the Back air prevails.

 

[TheGungnir]

Yeah, Buuman is correct about the Bair for the Momentum canceling, not only can you D.I. down like the Dair provides, you also end sooner for the jump to pretty much end your Horizontal movement too.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Well, two pretty simple questions were posted at the beginning of the thread that most people forgot.

Does Ftilt out-ranges Snake's Ftilt?
Yes, and it might outprioritize it as well.

Dtilt has priority over Kirby's Dash Attack?
Yes, but I think somebody else already mentioned this.

Any practical use for RJCUS?
What's RJCUS?

 

[Tero.]

Any practical use for RJCUS?
What's RJCUS?

Reverse Jump Cancel Up Smash

Someone (I think it was sMexy-Blu) made a video showing it.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Any practical use for RJCUS?
Well, now that I know what it is (I saw the video), probably no use unless you want to show off.

 

[Jupz]

If someones chasing you and you don't think they will expect it if they are at a high percent.

 

[qwertyman]

I'm wondering if a grab release into the air gives you enough time to hit with RJCUS.
Or if it at least becomes a safe option to use when they're not expecting it.

 

[Tero.]

I'm wondering if a grab release into the air gives you enough time to hit with RJCUS.
Or if it at least becomes a safe option to use when they're not expecting it.

Uhm can you force air grab release in the middle of the stage? It seems like every character touches the ground because D3's grab height is not that high so there will always be a ground release.

I might missed out something, I haven't tested all the grab release stuff yet *goes testing*

 

[qwertyman]

Uhm can you force air grab release in the middle of the stage? It seems like every character touches the ground because D3's grab height is not that high so there will always be a ground release.

I might missed out something, I haven't tested all the grab release stuff yet *goes testing*

Unless my understanding of grabs is skewed, a running grab can force an air release. I know it can for Wario, but I never bothered testing otherwise.

 

[Tero.]

Unless my understanding of grabs is skewed, a running grab can force an air release. I know it can for Wario, but I never bothered testing otherwise.

oh yeah your right, running grab forces air release on a few characters (Wario, Yoshi, ...)
uhm *goes testing again*

 

[sMexy-Blu]

To cause a grab release jump you have to press the jump button at the last frames before your opponent gets released.

Jump Grab release into RJCUS works on Wario 100% lol

 

[Vayseth]

Jump grab releases also tend to happen after a dash grab. If you want them to break up they have to break out durring a pummel or after a dash grab. If you do nothing, they will tend to break up. All of this is character specific though. When Dedede grabs Wario will always break up after a dash grab (he's lifted off of the ground) but metaknight will not, for example.

Ankoku and I worked on what causes a jump break or a non jump break and lemme tell ya, it's pretty confusing and different for every character.