Zoroark for Smash 4: Deconfirmed... or is it an illusion?

[Toxicroaker]

Because why would the more popular, more important and well liked veteran be REPLACED by a less popular, less important newcomer whose popularity has been dying off lately?

Lucario while in danger of being cut does have a decent chance of returning. Besides, whose to say Zoroark and Lucario can't coexist?

I guess that is true but I still highly doubt lucario even gets a spec of a chance

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I guess that is true but I still highly doubt lucario even gets a spec of a chance

Why?

Because he isn't "recent?"

 

[Toxicroaker]

Why?

Because he isn't "recent?"

here are my pros and cons for him

• + that very very small fan base for him like for one you
• - he is not recent and they have always had one recent and the rest gen 1 (melee pichu, pikachu, jigglypuff, mewtwo brawl lucario, pikachu, jigglypuff, gen 1 trainer)
• - huge competition from mewtwo

so not to many cons but only one pro and that is a very very tiny pro
but you will not change your mind and I will not change my mind ergo this argument is now pointless

 

[Swamp Sensei]

here are my pros and cons for him

• + that very very small fan base for him like for one you
• - he is not recent and they have always had one recent and the rest gen 1 (melee pichu, pikachu, jigglypuff, mewtwo brawl lucario, pikachu, jigglypuff, gen 1 trainer)
• - huge competition from mewtwo

so not to many cons but only one pro and that is a very very tiny pro

but you will not change your mind and I will not change my mind ergo this argument is now pointless

Lucario's fanbase is small?

Da fuq? He's one of the most popular pokemon of all time. Gamefreak is still using him for promotion purposes for a reason. They stopped using Zoroark ages ago.

Even if it was small Zoroark's is even smaller.

And there is no competition from Mewtwo. After all they were BOTH intended to bein Brawl. I see no reason why they both can't be in the game.

And its not pointless, you're spouting nonsense. THAT needs to be corrected.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Even though I do like Zoroark, saying that Lucario isn't popular is kind of an foolhardy proposition.

 

[Steelia]

Because why would the more popular, more important and well liked veteran be REPLACED by a less popular, less important newcomer whose popularity has been dying off lately?

They cut Mewtwo. If you're not a major main character (Mario, Pikachu, etc.), you're fair game. Money/Merchandising speaks louder than mere popularity. You know Lucario had an incredibly small supportive group before his inclusion? There were tons of skeptics, but he managed, no doubt thanks to the most recent 4th gen games.

The unfortunate thing in Zoroark's case is that it may get the Deoxys treatment - Zoroark is now a generation late, whereas the 6th gen is the "newest" thing for GAME FREAK to promote. It also doesn't help that Zoroark's signature ability (illusions) could be tricky to implement; I'm sure Deoxys's form changes were just as daunting.

I still hold out some hope for the illusive fox thing, as its still being featured prominently in games, cards, and other media. It would be nice to see it in combat.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

They cut Mewtwo. If you're not a major main character (Mario, Pikachu, etc.), you're fair game. Money/Merchandising speaks louder than mere popularity. You know Lucario had an incredibly small supportive group before his inclusion? There were tons of skeptics, but he managed, no doubt thanks to the most recent 4th gen games..

Mewtwo was cut because of time restraints. I was talking about straight up replacing Lucario with Zoroark. Actually Lucario was the most requested pokemon for Brawl. His fanbase was not small in the slightest.

 

[Deleted member]

Zoroark is unlikely at this point.

Remember what Sakurai said in how Pokémon are chosen?
The process starts with what's the "hot" Pokémon. Which Pokémon are appearing in the movies, the anime, promotional material, etc.

Zoroark's movie is back in 2010/2011.
Since then, we've had two movies (technically 3 with the two versions of Victini's movie), and an upcoming movie. Said upcoming movie stars Mewtwo and the new Mewtwo form, as well as Genesect.

Now, that's not to say Zoroark has nothing; Zoroark recently had an episode in the anime.

However, that's pretty much it; Zoroark isn't promoted much, and hasn't been a big promoted Pokémon for B/W since the very beginning of the generation. Prime focus for promotion was given to the Tao Dragons and the starters, with Victini squeezing in every now and then.
Even for B/W2, when Zoroark was seemingly coming back, previous Gen mascot Lucario stole Zoroark's thunder, being marketed alongside it to start with, then by itself shortly after. Hell, Zoroark replaced Lucario as a mascot of the Pokémon talk show in Japan when it changed from Pokémon Sunday to Pokémon Smash!, then after a bit, Lucario re-replaced Zoroark. To this day, Lucario appears every Sunday on the talk show.
And like Zoroark, Lucario was also in the anime again, when Cameron's Riolu evolved during the Unova cup against Ash and wiped out his remaining Pokémon, eliminating Ash from the cup.

In summation, if Lucario is gone, Zoroark will not take his place.
Outside of Mewtwo, who was in Melee and planned for Brawl, the main Pokémon to look to is Genesect.

Not saying this as an anti-Zoroark, since I have no problem with Zoroark being in the game. However, facts need to be faced; Zoroark is a victim of bad timing.

 

[Steelia]

Mewtwo was cut because of time restraints. I was talking about straight up replacing Lucario with Zoroark. Actually Lucario was the most requested pokemon for Brawl. His fanbase was not small in the slightest.

Source...?
Is this for the American polls? The only ones I've seen are for the Japanese. Strangely, they were really pushing for Gardevoir and Steven Stone.

However, facts need to be faced; Zoroark is a victim of bad timing.

This won't stop me from waving my little fan flag for Zoroark, but this is definitely my biggest fear when it comes to supporting it. Lucario happened to appear just in time for SSBB. In comparison, Zoroark's timing is somewhat off. It doesn't help that its rarity (and illusions) prevent it from being showcased more often in the anime by other rival trainers for Ash, though it does lead for more unique episodes.

(Also, I seriously hope they do not replace a Lucario or Zoroark spot for Genesect. What a waste that would be.)

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Source...?
Is this for the American polls? The only ones I've seen are for the Japanese. Strangely, they were really pushing for Gardevoir and Steven Stone.

Experience. I was around pre-Brawl.

Lucario was the most requested. Deoxsys was right below him.

 

[FlareHabanero]

the main Pokémon to look to is Genesect.

**** that tin can.

 

[Deleted member]

Tin cans have feelings too.

 

[Ko-san]

Character: Zoroark and Zorua

Speed: *****/6 (1 star = Ganon, 6 stars = Sonic)
Power: ****/6
Defense: **/6

Neutral Special - Night Daze (chargeable)

Zoroark begins to glow red and then energy is released. The longer it is charged the further it'll reach.

Down Special - Foul Play

Zorua appears and does a flip in front of Zoroark. If Zorua is hit it will disappear in a puff of smoke and any percentage of damage he would have taken is inflicted upon the attacker.
Zoroark is idle during this. She cannot move when executed. Does not block projectiles.

Forward Special - Night Slash/ Pursuit

Zoroark dashes forward quickly with glowing claws. Only upon contact does she slash the enemy and the resulting attack turns them around.
Zorua initiates pursuit after Night Slash is activated. He will tackle the enemy. If he connects with the enemy's back the move does double damage.
Pursuit does not work in midair but Night Slash does.

Up Special - Bounce

Zoroark springs into the air quickly and follows with a homing attack on the nearest enemy below her. If there is no enemy, she will not attack. The upward movement does no damage.

Final Smash - Illusion

A large Night Daze is activated. Any opponents caught in the attack will appear in Lostlorn Forest and will promptly be attacked by Entei, Raikou, and Suicune (Zoroark disguised as them) in a similar way to Movie 13.

Zorua only appears in taunts, victory screens, and specific attacks. He talks for Zoroark.




Any comments or ideas?

 

[FangnierFernious]

Character: Zoroark and Zorua

Speed: *****/6 (1 star = Ganon, 6 stars = Sonic)
Power: ****/6
Defense: **/6

Neutral Special - Night Daze (chargeable)

Zoroark begins to glow red and then energy is released. The longer it is charged the further it'll reach.

Down Special - Foul Play

Zorua appears and does a flip in front of Zoroark. If Zorua is hit it will disappear in a puff of smoke and any percentage of damage he would have taken is inflicted upon the attacker.
Zoroark is idle during this. She cannot move when executed. Does not block projectiles.

Forward Special - Night Slash/ Pursuit

Zoroark dashes forward quickly with glowing claws. Only upon contact does she slash the enemy and the resulting attack turns them around.
Zorua initiates pursuit after Night Slash is activated. He will tackle the enemy. If he connects with the enemy's back the move does double damage.
Pursuit does not work in midair but Night Slash does.

Up Special - Bounce

Zoroark springs into the air quickly and follows with a homing attack on the nearest enemy below her. If there is no enemy, she will not attack. The upward movement does no damage.

Final Smash - Illusion

A large Night Daze is activated. Any opponents caught in the attack will appear in Lostlorn Forest and will promptly be attacked by Entei, Raikou, and Suicune (Zoroark disguised as them) in a similar way to Movie 13.

Zorua only appears in taunts, victory screens, and specific attacks. He talks for Zoroark.




Any comments or ideas?

Pretty good. I'm syill holding out hope for Zoroark. It's my favorite Pokemon

 

[FangnierFernious]

Well still no word on Zoroark being in. Or any pokemon besides Pikachu. But there's still a lot of time left. I still think Zoroark is the best pokemon for this game.

 

[SuperBrawler]

The title is Master of Illusions but your moveset doesn't have Zoroark using illusions.

 

[sunfallSeraph]

If anyone would like to show some support, Zoroark is up for rating in the Rate Their Chances thread today.

 

[Groose]

If anyone would like to show some support, Zoroark is up for rating in the Rate Their Chances thread today.

Hey! Notifying the support thread is my job! How DARE you beat me to it?

 

[sunfallSeraph]

Hey! Notifying the support thread is my job! How DARE you beat me to it?

The foe's Zoroark's illusion wore off! It wasn't Groose at all. :b

 

[FangnierFernious]

You know I've been thinking about this lately. People are counting Zoroark cause of gen 6 but who's to say we cant have Mewtwo,Lucario,Zoroark,and a gen 6 pokemon like lets say Noivern or one of the starters final evolutions? Just not Chesspin. Anything but that one. Then an all pokemon battle like I have with my friend sometimes would have some diversity and be much more fun.

 

[3Bismyname]

You know I've been thinking about this lately. People are counting Zoroark cause of gen 6 but who's to say we cant have Mewtwo,Lucario,Zoroark,and a gen 6 pokemon like lets say Noivern or one of the starters final evolutions? Just not Chesspin. Anything but that one. Then an all pokemon battle like I have with my friend sometimes would have some diversity and be much more fun.

that's way too many pokemon reps. im assuming u aren't planning on cuts in which case ur talking about 7 reps. technically 9 with pokemon trainer counting as 3 different characters. that's just something u really shouldn't bet on.

 

[FangnierFernious]

that's way too many pokemon reps. im assuming u aren't planning on cuts in which case ur talking about 7 reps. technically 9 with pokemon trainer counting as 3 different characters. that's just something u really shouldn't bet on.

Well I was actually thinking of Jigglypuff being cut. It doesn't make a significant difference. Also I just count pokemon trainer as one character. So that would, by my count, be just 5 reps. Not to many. Also there was a list of pokemon going to recieve Mage-evolutions. I don't know if it was true but Zoroark was on that list. If it is and they make Zoroarks Mega-evolution really amazing it may generate enough love for Zoroark to earn it a spot.

 

[Curious Villager]

Even once gen 5 is over this month, that doesn't mean that I'm suddenly going to forget about Zoroark. She is actually one of my most favourite pokemon. Her Illusion ability is just great fun and I personally find her to be overall just a great Pokemon to use in the games, once we can transfer our older Pokemon to our X and Y copies, I will definitely transfer my Zoroark over to Kalos and continue training and winning battles with it.

I'll continue supporting her for now and hope she might just make it into the game as a playable after all. Zoroark does have a lot of potential as her illusion ability could make for some pretty cool mind games to fool her opponent during battle. I don't know, I just feel like it would be a huge shame to not see such a promising character become playable in the Super Smash Bros series. I hope she makes it in. But I guess she is indeed a victim towards bad timing though. :/

 

[3Bismyname]

Well I was actually thinking of Jigglypuff being cut. It doesn't make a significant difference. Also I just count pokemon trainer as one character. So that would, by my count, be just 5 reps. Not to many. Also there was a list of pokemon going to recieve Mage-evolutions. I don't know if it was true but Zoroark was on that list. If it is and they make Zoroarks Mega-evolution really amazing it may generate enough love for Zoroark to earn it a spot.

Zoroark is most likely on the list, I just don't see her as being a high priority pokemon. not to say Jiggs is by any means, if anything I bet she's lowest priority as far as the pokemon series is concerned, but she's got her veteran status to help her out.

 

[FangnierFernious]

Zoroark is most likely on the list, I just don't see her as being a high priority pokemon. not to say Jiggs is by any means, if anything I bet she's lowest priority as far as the pokemon series is concerned, but she's got her veteran status to help her out.

That may be true but like I said Mega-evolved Zoroark could earn it a spot I believe it rightfully deserves. And Jigglypuff may even stay. Six reps wont tip the balance to much honestly. It'll just be one more annoying puffball to knock around like a volleyball. Also heres the picture of that list I found.

 

[3Bismyname]

That may be true but like I said Mega-evolved Zoroark could earn it a spot I believe it rightfully deserves. And Jigglypuff may even stay. Six reps wont tip the balance to much honestly. It'll just be one more annoying puffball to knock around like a volleyball. Also heres the picture of that list I found.

Sudowoodo and Zangoose? why bother?

but anyway u could argue that Jiggs deserves the spot as she is relevant again. being one of the pokemon being converted into a fairy type.

 

[Toxicroaker]

That may be true but like I said Mega-evolved Zoroark could earn it a spot I believe it rightfully deserves. And Jigglypuff may even stay. Six reps wont tip the balance to much honestly. It'll just be one more annoying puffball to knock around like a volleyball. Also heres the picture of that list I found.

This list is wrong. It was fanart and was proven wrong on smogon.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Even if that list is false, I am certain Zoroark will get a Mega-Evolution anyways.

If Lucario is getting one, especially being the pushed movie Pokemon in Gen 4, so is she for being the same thing in Gen 5.

 

[FangnierFernious]

Sudowoodo and Zangoose? why bother?

but anyway u could argue that Jiggs deserves the spot as she is relevant again. being one of the pokemon being converted into a fairy type.

Yeah but lots of people seem to be annoyed with the Fairy-types. Especially being super-effective against dragons and apparently not affected by Dragon-type moves.

 

[3Bismyname]

Yeah but lots of people seem to be annoyed with the Fairy-types. Especially being super-effective against dragons and apparently not affected by Dragon-type moves.

most ppl ive talked to are pretty ok with Fairy's effectiveness against Dragons. it overall means that there is no longer a super OP type to get abused like no other.

 

[FangnierFernious]

most ppl ive talked to are pretty ok with Fairy's effectiveness against Dragons. it overall means that there is no longer a super OP type to get abused like no other.

I don't like the Fairy-types. Though that may be cause I'm a Dragon-type user. Anyways I guess it just comes down to what people want most. And I'm hoping X/Y boosts Zoroarks popularity and it gets in. And if Jigglypuff stays I'd be satasfied with beating it around with Zoroark.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I was thinking how Substitute could be Zoroarks D-Spec. Zoroark could change into a substitute, it can prevent damage up to 5 hits. Once the opponent hits it five times, Zoroark counterattacks the opponent. But the counter can be done at anytime you're a substitute.

 

[FangnierFernious]

Yeah it could. Though I think that the Final Smash and a counter would be one of it's only uses for its Illusion ability that would make sense. Though substitute wouldn't be that bad of an idea.

 

[Shorts]

Because why would the more popular, more important and well liked veteran be REPLACED by a less popular, less important newcomer whose popularity has been dying off lately?

Because, at the end of the day this is a fighting game. While Lucario is more popular, yes. Zoroark is still popular. There comes a point where popularity simply is what it is, and unless you're EXTREMELY popular (Think Mewtwo now, Megaman prior his reveal, and Sonic during Pre-Brawl), you plateau. At this point, both characters are recognizable by all Pokemon fans, and probably most smash fans. What Zoroark could bring to the table blows most newcomers out of the water, let alone Lucario. Finally, this is a fighting game, not your high school prom committee. We don't have appointed representatives, besides maybe Mario, Link, Pikachu, ect. There's a reason we got C. Viper and Hsien Ko over Ken and Demitri in MvC3. They got dat style that no one else brings. Which is how I view Zoroark and Lucario.

I don't THINK Lucario will be cut in favor of Zoroark, but there is plenty of reasons to. In terms of what is likely to happen, I mean, Pokemon IS A TOSS UP. Zoroark seems far fetched, but not impossible. I believe he has something over Genesect, and Sylveon. Who seem to be his only legitimate competition. Mewtwo is like Smash Jesus when it comes to popularity. There's no point arguing Zoroark > Mewtwo, even if it's the cool thing to do.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Zoroark has so much uniqueness as a newcomer, but he has the chance to replace any Pokemon newcomer.
I would happily accept Pikachu, Jigglypuff, PKMN Trainer, Mewtwo, and Zoroark as the final Pokemon characters for the game. Sakurai would have to decide very carefully who to replace for Zoroark to get in.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Sakurai would have to decide very carefully who to replace for Zoroark to get in.

Jigglypuff please.
Please.

 

[Shorts]

Lucario. Jiggly stays.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Yeah pretty much my suggestion, just cut Lucario.

 

[FangnierFernious]

Yeah pretty much my suggestion, just cut Lucario.

I doubt Lucario would get cut being one of the first introduced Mega-evolved pokemon. Jiggly seems more likely to get cut.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I doubt Lucario would get cut being one of the first introduced Mega-evolved pokemon. Jiggly seems more likely to get cut.

That doesn't really affect Lucario's chances though.