ZOMBIES! Mafia - Who Survived the Apocalypse?

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Vote: Red Ryu
nls line of questioning was a dead end after wattsons response, ur continuation had very obvious answers & served no purpose beyond "look town im doing things". and surprise now that hes answered ur not doing anything becaus e there was never goign 2 be a followup

also igonring me isnt cool <_<

Very legit vote early on.

Ash what made you feel this right away when the game had only just started ?

 

[Moira]

Cutting this post out of my catch-up because it's too god damn funny.

@-Masquerain-
suddenly an independent day kidnapper has decided 2 target ran, u will not be able to lynch or target him until the day ends. waht is youre opinion on the remaining 12 players and which wagons would you consider supporting?

LMFAO! Just wooooooow this is like gold you can't even write. Besides the fact she said Day kidnapper but the irony of this whole situation.

 

[Moira]

This is what I'm getting at tomorrow by the way in case it wasn't obvious.

Pfffft, god dammit the laughing fit is back. I just can't. God this game is a better re-read after flips/info. I am loving it.

 

[Moira]

Ranmaru + Ryu disconnect is more visible on pg. 12 with Ranmaru's asinine questioning of him. Doubt this is being faked between the two so more comfy with Ran. Combined on top of Ran's 471 on Ryu and Joey. I like him more than dislike him as town. Ranmaru can be bumped up a bit. Plus good reads for Ran on nailing two scum in one post. (even though oppsing alignments and catching them for the wrong reasons but hey whatever works works apparantly haha *also explains why Joey would kidnap Ran*)

still townreading NL

not feelin scumRyu from your post ran.

I like the joey wagon because he's being incredibly frustrating in this game. Participating more so in offtopic threads of discussion, liking irrelevant posts but then not even contributing to the thread. and it's quite annoying and shows lack of any initiative. that being said, he hasn't screamed scum from the posts that he's actually made, actually just on a gut level i'm leaning the other way... can't really articulate why. BUT that being said, he's being incredibly anti-town in his behavior and so i can support that wagon.

Bolded just keeps making me not like Macman.

Side-note: If Gorf has been sheeping ScumMac all game, I'm going to laugh quite a bit.

oh and on ryu, he;s been completely off my radar - not enough content. but i'd be down with a ryu lynch

>reasoning for Ryu lynch. Kay.

NL vs. Ranmaru looks and feels TvT over one of them being scum trying to manipulate the other.

Gheb/no lynch/Gorf is my lynch pool today, I'd only Support Watt if there is a good reason which no one is answering me outside of Ran.

Why did Ryu single out WATT here? Also based on my reads, this looks like a town-slip Ryu had where he put 3 townies in his lynch-pool then threw WATT in there just because.

ebwop: rake > gheb/frozen >>> watt > ryu

still willing to lynch everyone in that list

This kind of speaks for itself here.

Let me answer your question with another question.

What makes him different from the rest of the sheep in the game?

Worrrrrrdddddddddd

@ #HBC | Mac : You just used the above post of ours in your case against us. Why did you not quote the fact that you agreed with us in the sense of what makes Ryu different? It's a contradiction and especially for trying to condemn us for your own actions.

Finished D1, still not liking WATT after the whole claim/CC dispute bull. Rockin could probably move down to null. Need to read D2. Circus is still a hard town-read. Still think Mac/WATT are bad looking. Ashy/Circus are hardest town-reads, glad they are neighbor'd and can talk and be all towny and jazz. No Lynch still does not read as scum, but they are the one "paranoid" town-read I have that if it came down to Ashy/Circus/No Lynch/Us, I would probably bet the game on them being scum since I have a stronger read on Ashy/Circus. I do not want them lynched soon however. My town pile is Ashy/Circus/Rake/Gorf/No Lynch/Ranmaru at this juncture. That just leaves Macman/WATT in the PoE. Still think WATT needs to be killed or dealt with in some way because it would provide some great insight on people.

Rawr, J is no officially tired and has 2 and a half hours to sleep before work. So good morning and gnight. Maybe will make it back before night to finish my re-read? I want to finish this up before toMorrow so that we all our thoughts are out before the pushing of us begin so that we may fall back onto these thoughts later.

 

[Ashemu]

One question @ Ashemu and @Circus

One of you is about to get hit with a shovel, who gets hit and why? (This question will become more relevant at a later date) If you don't get it, then humor me with just an answer/name between the two of you. It's a question I learned from one of my psychological classes and would truly help me figure something out.

well id duck and id like to believe circus would too?

 

[#HBC | J]

That is the response I expected out of you tbh haha.

Ashy, can you talk about Mac?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

yo j i get what you're tryna do n all but is the crux of your disliking macman reeeeeally the fact that he was generally okay with ruy yesterDay? cuz I mean to me he didn't even exist and im sure you know how easy it is to want to treat somebody like that when they post the way ruy does.

also blinded by swag is one of the funniest lines ive ever heard.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

oh and your arguments are completely invalidated to me cuz you still have watt on your scum list. sorrrrrry.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

mmmm sooo very down J

i find your advances tittilating

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Just saying, you are going to look like a fool post-game. Same with WATT.

what about me =[

Macman, hop off bro. Your reasoning for us not being so dead-set on Ryu is garbage especially with how scummy/anti-town WATT has been playing this entire game. It's completely unfair to say "herp derp, Moira is scum because they weren't on the RyuLynch". No where did we defend Ryu and no where did we try and stop his wagon. We encouraged the opposing wagon and pushed who we thought was scum. Point?

You weren't "not so dead-set", you were not set on it at all. No you didnt try to outright stop his wagon, you just were the biggest advocate of the competing wagon, which looks terribly bad from a scumhunting 101 perspective. Obviously you're not gonna just straight up try to stop your scummates wagon, but you did make some (atleast one) deflectory posts about the ryu wagon as I mention in my #1616 ("what makes ryu different from all the other sheep in this game") Tho haha lol, i did cosign that statement in my #799... w/e tho. You say you were not so dead-set on ryu's lynch yet you said things like "So I guess this is just a wordy way of saying, null. I can probably say this for both sides, but we would rather have someone who is actually here and posting to flip over that of Ryu. I would vote Gorf over him in a heart beat. The reason I put him there in the lynch line was to express that I would much much prefer the other two (WATT/Gheb) over the other two (Gorf/Ryu)." Which give the impression that you didn't want Ryu to go at all since you'd vote gorf before him.

also guys, don't forget how important that lynch was for scum, ryu was set on becoming a clear watcher, if the outcome occured as the ryuscumteam predicted (with another scum team and them falsely counterclaiming watcher) being lynched, then ryu would be clear. So bussing Ryu wouldn't be as valuable given this potential strategy

some of moira's posts after ryu claimed:

(in response to ran's q)

My question is my answer. Sure his votes are sheepy, but how are his actions scummier than that of the others? Gorf's been a sheep, but I do not see you joining the Gorf wagon.

Macman, you are here. I am caught up. J is not around, talk dirty to me about Gheb.

seems like Moira is tryna see what the support looks like about other non-ryu lynches. But I guess moira just wasn't "dead-set" on ryu, and she just jappened to be more set on Gorf / Gheb.

A little further down the page, this is the post where Moira stops their "waffling" and decides to continue to back the WATT lynch.

And WATT has 5 votes.

So effectively as of this post:

Red Ryu (4) - WATT, Gheb, Rake, Ranmaru
WATT (5) - Moira, No Lynch, Joey, Rockin, Red Ryu
Not voting either candidate - Gorf, Circus, Ashemu, Macman

Yeah, looking at the wagons and the votes, I am still much more content with the WATT wagon. I'm about to give Sang a call shortly and we are gonna discuss this game a bit.

i'm picking ryu

ugh look at this sexy ass vote by this ***** right here.
voting ryu despit having watt higher on the lynch list earlier.
despite the watt / ryu wagon being pretty equivalent with more heat on WATT. It'd be 98497x easier to go along with the WATT lynch if i was Ryu's partner and we were tryna get a ryu watcher clear

So you are choosing to join a wagon with 3 of your scum-suspects?

You are definitely going to have to explain the rational behind that.

attacking someone for choosing the right wagon, aka attacking someone for going along with your scummates lynch?

So YES moira, you're right. You did not DIRECTLY defend ryu. No you just pushed the opposing lynch, tried to see if there was support for other lynch candidates, criticized ppls reasons for voting him, etc

(guys you should all go back and read the pages after ryu's claim and before he ragequits. All super valueable info)

 

[#HBC | Mac]

This series of posts is telling to me. Macman comes in and says the NL wagon is awful, but says Ashy is the only thing being sensible? This makes no sense considering Ashy, at the time, was leading the NL wagon. Mac also makes no appearance to mention Ryu throughout any of this which is a head-turner because of a couple reasons:

1.) He says the NL wagon is awful, therefore by the notion, he should logically find Ryu scummier.
2.) Why would he buddy Ashemu if he finds the NL wagon awful?
3.) Mac says he is equally alright to "**** gheb outta here" or would be "down to join a Ran wagon" considering my train of thought, this would mean Mac has wanted to push all town slots at this juncture and ignore Ryu.
4.) He never states why Ashy is obvtown and just keeps on throwing out arbritrary reads with no backing.

So yea me and ash hashed this out already, not sure how you missed the post where I answer Ashemu's question. Literally 3 posts later in my #251

Also good job using my first posts in the game to show how obvscum I am for not mentioning Ryu.

But cuz I like defending myself: why should I have mentioned ryu? Your #1 says I should automatically assume that the person pushing a wagon i don't like is scum? And iirc, there were multiple ppl slinging hate at NL's slot for really dumb reasons, ryu was just a part of that.

wrt to your #3: Weren't you just giving reasons why ran could be scum / looks bad, earlier in this post? This is a far step from ranmaru being confirmed or obvious town like you imply in your #3 "this would mean Mac has wanted to push all town slots at this juncture...". So what? Also "at this juncture" being literally my first stream of posts in the game. so I'm scum because I had 2 incorrect reads and didn't mention Ryu when I just started posting. right...

also notice how I hope off the Ran wagon pretty much right away, oh wait you do...

First off, Macman hops off of Ran because of "NL's meta" but when our slot says that Gheb is just being Gheb, Macman becomes stubborn and continues to push it. The re-read will bring more of this to light, but with Gheb's death I feel Macman is more likely looking grottier with the incessant tunneling on Gheb for almost mirror like reasoning for him dropping/town-reading Ran. Then his "contradiction" on Rake is funny considering Rake being town:

Woah, "almost mirror like reasoning"? the arguments against gheb and ran were wholly different. Ran was making stupid pushes and called ashemu out for something that actually made sense, so it made Ran look bad to me. Gheb was scummy cuz dude's lack of scumhunting intent and how he'd only respond with useless already mentioned content once someone mentioned his name in a negative light. They're not at all similar reasons.

Yea I gave ran the benefit of the doubt due to his meta, cuz I actually remember Ran going down some silly roads in previous games with him. So I was inclined to agree with NL, whereas Gheb I didn't see the meta argument at all because that's not how I remember gheb playing. And Gheb's actions were scummier while Ran's were more just... incorrect.

Anyways, I've already explained my reasoning for getting off of Ran in more detail and with more context somewhere.

and even if what you said made sense, not sure how that was at all an argument for me being scum lolll.... oh my gawd mac is so suspicious for hopping off of one prollytown slot but wouldn't hop off another prollytown slot for similar reasons! yea idk where you're going with that

He literally asks the same question Ashy asked him and turned it back around on him as an apparant "valid line of questioning". Seems like bull to me. Why is he questioning Rake on something he, exactly, did himself?

uh no, ashemu asked me why I liked their slot despite not liking the NL push. I responded because the one post she does push NL in actually had legitimate reasoning in it, which was wholly different from everyone elses NL reasoning. Plus I was more just saying I agreed with most of what Ashemu was saying not just the NL post.

Whereas I asked rake why he liked a specific post of Ashemu's DENOUNCING the NL wagon, despite him saying he likes the NL wagon. This is pretty much the reverse of what occurred with me and Ash. He liked the NL wagon and also directly liked Ashemu's post ****ting on the wagon. there was a clear discrepancy there. For your reference:

tbh: the no lynch case seems rly dumb too me even 4 d1, the gist of it is "he's putting on A Act" which is stupid bc town will affect their posts too for the sake of rhetoric. attacking ruy for bad play doest'n mean anything here because there was no vote & they even said hed flip town, thats not how you attack people in mafia games, this literally boils down to ryu arguing that chastising him for doing dumb things is scummy without a permit

if anythings bad about them it's the fact that they HAVENT made a real puush yet, im not even townreading them and this is still ****en dumb, pressure joey with me instead imo

this x 1000
We can be friends

so yea your reasoning for me being scum is pretty absurdly flimsy. Not only that but you use my first actual posts in this game for fuel that I might be scum. Surely your reread was completely unbiased and you didn't go into it with the intent to peg Mac as scum right away. Of course any rational scumhunting townie would look at those first few posts and see wow Mac is most definitely scum.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

K so let's rehash

reasons why Mac is scum according to J:
In his first few posts he doesn't mention Ryu
In his first few posts he has 2 scum reads on ppl that are likely town
In his first few posts he doesn't answer a question Ash asks him oh wait he did
He hops off the Ran wagon due to ranmeta but refuses to hop of the gheb wagon due to someone else's gheb meta

reasons why Moira is scum according to Mac:
Pushed the competing lynch of scum
Soft defense of Ryu by criticizing the reasoning for the wagon
Continues to push WATT despite hard disconnections from Ryu

I think i'll add: silly af reread of the game made to paint mac in a bad light from the get go

I did like one thing from your post though Moira, it pointed out a lot of NL disconnections from Ryu so I'm less concerned about that slot. (plus NL was on the Ryu wagon that got Ryu to claim so it looks even better for him from that point of view)

 

[#HBC | Mac]

forgot another post

Bolded just keeps making me not like Macman.

Yea saying that I don't agree with Ranmaru's scumRyu case is definitely definitely suspect. man I should have know ryu was scum from the get go. I mean clearly Ran's case was supremely convincing which is why everyone jumped on the Ryu wagon right J?

>reasoning for Ryu lynch. Kay.

what exactly is the issue you're tryna bring up? I say I'd be willing to go with a Ryu lynch despite not having much info on him / glazing over him for most of d1. And you know what I went through with that ****

This kind of speaks for itself here.

Yea, ryu was fifth on my should lynch list. I'm sorry that I thought Rake was much more likely to be scum than Ryu since Rake seemingly did actual scummy ****. He gave the impression like he was trying to find scum on the surface, but when you looked underneath it seemed like he didn't actually care. Dude asked me like 2 questions and I straight up ignored them 4 times and he didn't care, that doesn't look good to me. So having Rake as first scummer made Ryu look better due to their disconnections.

Anyways, you had Ryu as your fourth best lynch candidate, after watt gheb and gorf, but nothing you did seem to show that you were actually willing to lynch Ryu. Instead you due the opposite by pushing opposing lynches and criticizing the ppl on Ryu's wagon.

@ #HBC | Mac : You just used the above post of ours in your case against us. Why did you not quote the fact that you agreed with us in the sense of what makes Ryu different? It's a contradiction and especially for trying to condemn us for your own actions.

Most of the arguments you made in this post could be applied to you as well, including this META af logic right here.

but yea you right I totally skimmed over my post where I agreed with that one post. Still though, you've lightweight defended Ryu in more than just that post

 

[#HBC | J]

what about me =[

Haha well you wouldn't be a fool because in my mind here is this train of thought:

1.) You are scum and just trying to push my ML, aka just working towards your win-con so can't be too upset (especially since your push is balls )
2.) You could be misreading our slot's play and just not being correct. That is fine to since no one can be 100% correct every game (or most games) *Though amendum, you have been wrong on a couple reads and only voted Ryu after he gained traction and Joey just lol if you weren't reading him as scum at this point and then his claim*
3.) You aren't being an ass and still being chill so I can at least talk to you like a human being. So I appreciate that and doesn't make you a fool.

Debates happen, reads happen, sooooo yeah. Also you'll have to excuse me but I won't be responding to your responses to me. I do not see the need to and they are pretty stretchy/not true to what I am saying/doing, plus I would like to finish my re-read.

God, dammit, I need to log into Moira more and I even have it linked but I keep starting a small post and it gets bigger.

 

[#HBC | J]

reasons why Moira is scum according to Mac:
Pushed the competing lynch of scum
Soft defense of Ryu by criticizing the reasoning for the wagon
Continues to push WATT despite hard disconnections from Ryu

These are all the same reason, you do realize that? You fail to mention our play at all and just keep saying "Moira+Ryu = Obv-scum" due to a connection case that isn't even that strong. Sure, we didn't gung-ho lynch Ryu? His play was utterly null and the only thing that truly got him lynched was his claim and WATT's CC'ing of him. That's that. However, why do you fail to even consider the fact that we could be town just following a scum-read? You keep trying to shove down everyone's throat that it is Black and White what happened, but there is a gray area.


Here is a big reason why I think you are more likely to flip scum>town: You have been utterly stubborn to the point of not reasoning or choosing to look at things as a possible town perspective. A case that you pushed all day yesterDay was the Gheb push which was utter bull. You kept pushing null things and trying to make them look scummy. What Gheb posted and did was not scummy and I stand by that. I also find you saying that "wtf, this isn't townGheb" thing unbelievable because of you knowing full well he does this after hydra'ing with him in games as Spaghebti. Now you are trying to push our slot on actions that are not scummy, but trying to twist them into a scummy light. It's manipulative and shady and not something I would think a townMac would do to try and scum-hunt. You also did a similar thing to Rake early this day-phase with your push on him but once he claimed you just backed off. I have found a distate for quite literally all of your pushes this game because they have been as follows:

1.) Gheb
2.) Rake
3.) Moira
4.) Joey (I'll give you this one, but lol he's indy so that don't count)

So in the end who have you truly pushed? A dead townie, a townie PR (more than likely), a town slot (well duh) and the indy. You have not been pushing mafia at all and it's beginning to bug me more and more.

There is also the fact that you have been pushing my slot on nothing more than a sheer flimsy connection theory instead of looking at our combined play. You say that you look super townie, but I am not seeing that and I think others are just blinded to sweeping you under the rug as an easy read and more than willing to let you go. You have quite literally nothing in this Day-Phase until this point where you have chose to come at my slot and if you are scum, that's a ballsy ass thing to do.

Bottom line: What you need to do is actually bring up reasons against my slot and what our play has done to equivilate us being scum. Because if you are town and lynch us based off that information alone, you will gain nothing from our town flip since it was just like "Oh herp-derp, lynched the most likely candidate", but that's saying you can gain our lynch. The thing is that you are not doing unlike Ashy/No Lynch, in particular, is looking outside the connection thing to Ryu and looking at our posts and trying to find the town intent and they seem to have come to that conclusion. You on the other hand are just going full out against us over something that is quite truly trivial.

Another thing that is bugging me is pushing our slot as Ryu's scumpartner is so god damn easy that anyone could do that. It's easy to make us look like scum since we were so adamant on WATT for his play and choose wrong in the 50/50 slot. However, what you continue to leave out is the fact that we had Ryu as null and nowhere near town. I was pushing the WATT wagon, that's not a big deal like you continue to make it out to be.

Anyways this turned into a bigger response than intended, but yeah. You have some explaining to do, Big Mac. Though this can wait till toMorrow>toDay.

 

[#HBC | J]

oh and your arguments are completely invalidated to me cuz you still have watt on your scum list. sorrrrrry.

Remind me to bring this up later as a point.

 

[Moira]

Haha well you wouldn't be a fool because in my mind here is this train of thought:

1.) You are scum and just trying to push my ML, aka just working towards your win-con so can't be too upset (especially since your push is balls )
2.) You could be misreading our slot's play and just not being correct. That is fine to since no one can be 100% correct every game (or most games) *Though amendum, you have been wrong on a couple reads and only voted Ryu after he gained traction and Joey just lol if you weren't reading him as scum at this point and then his claim*
3.) You aren't being an *** and still being chill so I can at least talk to you like a human being. So I appreciate that and doesn't make you a fool.

Debates happen, reads happen, sooooo yeah. Also you'll have to excuse me but I won't be responding to your responses to me. I do not see the need to and they are pretty stretchy/not true to what I am saying/doing, plus I would like to finish my re-read.

God, dammit, I need to log into Moira more and I even have it linked but I keep starting a small post and it gets bigger.

These are all the same reason, you do realize that? You fail to mention our play at all and just keep saying "Moira+Ryu = Obv-scum" due to a connection case that isn't even that strong. Sure, we didn't gung-ho lynch Ryu? His play was utterly null and the only thing that truly got him lynched was his claim and WATT's CC'ing of him. That's that. However, why do you fail to even consider the fact that we could be town just following a scum-read? You keep trying to shove down everyone's throat that it is Black and White what happened, but there is a gray area.


Here is a big reason why I think you are more likely to flip scum>town: You have been utterly stubborn to the point of not reasoning or choosing to look at things as a possible town perspective. A case that you pushed all day yesterDay was the Gheb push which was utter bull. You kept pushing null things and trying to make them look scummy. What Gheb posted and did was not scummy and I stand by that. I also find you saying that "wtf, this isn't townGheb" thing unbelievable because of you knowing full well he does this after hydra'ing with him in games as Spaghebti. Now you are trying to push our slot on actions that are not scummy, but trying to twist them into a scummy light. It's manipulative and shady and not something I would think a townMac would do to try and scum-hunt. You also did a similar thing to Rake early this day-phase with your push on him but once he claimed you just backed off. I have found a distate for quite literally all of your pushes this game because they have been as follows:

1.) Gheb
2.) Rake
3.) Moira
4.) Joey (I'll give you this one, but lol he's indy so that don't count)

So in the end who have you truly pushed? A dead townie, a townie PR (more than likely), a town slot (well duh) and the indy. You have not been pushing mafia at all and it's beginning to bug me more and more.

There is also the fact that you have been pushing my slot on nothing more than a sheer flimsy connection theory instead of looking at our combined play. You say that you look super townie, but I am not seeing that and I think others are just blinded to sweeping you under the rug as an easy read and more than willing to let you go. You have quite literally nothing in this Day-Phase until this point where you have chose to come at my slot and if you are scum, that's a ballsy *** thing to do.

Bottom line: What you need to do is actually bring up reasons against my slot and what our play has done to equivilate us being scum. Because if you are town and lynch us based off that information alone, you will gain nothing from our town flip since it was just like "Oh herp-derp, lynched the most likely candidate", but that's saying you can gain our lynch. The thing is that you are not doing unlike Ashy/No Lynch, in particular, is looking outside the connection thing to Ryu and looking at our posts and trying to find the town intent and they seem to have come to that conclusion. You on the other hand are just going full out against us over something that is quite truly trivial.

Another thing that is bugging me is pushing our slot as Ryu's scumpartner is so god damn easy that anyone could do that. It's easy to make us look like scum since we were so adamant on WATT for his play and choose wrong in the 50/50 slot. However, what you continue to leave out is the fact that we had Ryu as null and nowhere near town. I was pushing the WATT wagon, that's not a big deal like you continue to make it out to be.

Anyways this turned into a bigger response than intended, but yeah. You have some explaining to do, Big Mac. Though this can wait till toMorrow>toDay.

Remind me to bring this up later as a point.

Quote because I am a baddie.

 

[#HBC | J]

Ranmaru is probably so happy to get back into the game. He is going to explode with a wall or something.

Just please not at me.

(yes I went back to my main account, I'm so bad at hydring)

 

[#HBC | Mac]

These are all the same reason, you do realize that? You fail to mention our play at all and just keep saying "Moira+Ryu = Obv-scum" due to a connection case that isn't even that strong.

yea it is, it's pretty textbook actually. (man the mafiascum wiki is down =[[[)

Sure, we didn't gung-ho lynch Ryu? His play was utterly null and the only thing that truly got him lynched was his claim and WATT's CC'ing of him. That's that. However, why do you fail to even consider the fact that we could be town just following a scum-read? You keep trying to shove down everyone's throat that it is Black and White what happened, but there is a gray area.

I'm not really hating on your for being wrong (though it def is suspect since actions speak louder than words), but more so about how you have been wrong. You ignore my points about you critisizing ppl on the ryu lynch, tryna find other possible lynch candidates, and lightweight defending ryu. Not only were you wrong. You're doing a bunch of things I'd expect a Ryu scummate to do if Ryu had the potential to be clear and get saved from a lynch.

Here is a big reason why I think you are more likely to flip scum>town: You have been utterly stubborn to the point of not reasoning or choosing to look at things as a possible town perspective. A case that you pushed all day yesterDay was the Gheb push which was utter bull. You kept pushing null things and trying to make them look scummy. What Gheb posted and did was not scummy and I stand by that. I also find you saying that "wtf, this isn't townGheb" thing unbelievable because of you knowing full well he does this after hydra'ing with him in games as Spaghebti.

I'm stubborn? k sorry, didn't realize that was scummy.... oh and yea i'm def stubborn cuz i chose to hold onto my ran suspicions and my WATT suspicions, oh wait i didn't...

and wrt to gheb, I HAVE played with him in games and as a hydra so this was even more reason for me not to like the "oh it's gheb's meta" argument cuz I don't see how it's ghebs meta at all. I've already discussed this multiple times. I expect gheb to actually give a **** about finding scum, his play was him trying to appear like he's being useful when he hadn't been doing anything useful or scumhunt worthy. And that's not even a meta argument. Show me Gheb's play back in the day or even Spaghebti's play where dude acted similar to this. What I remember playing as spaghebti is some stupid ass game where we spent the entire time tryna get dumb ass town not to lynch our obvtown play.

But to be clear, your reasoning is: Mac == Scum because of being stubborn about ghebScum.

Now you are trying to push our slot on actions that are not scummy, but trying to twist them into a scummy light. It's manipulative and shady and not something I would think a townMac would do to try and scum-hunt. You also did a similar thing to Rake early this day-phase with your push on him but once he claimed you just backed off.

I'm twisting your actions in a scummy light? Lol this defense is ****ing ********. How is anyone supposed to scumhunt if they're not trying to fit someone's actions with what scum might do? So my points don't seem like scumhunting to you? How else am I supposed to scumhunt? If I say "oh obvscum is scum because he did X and it's seems like scum would do X in this scenario" then it's OMG MAC STOP TWISTING THEY'RE ACTIONS TO MAKE THEM LOOK LIKE SCUM

HEY J, YOUR LOGIC ON ME MAKES IT SEEM LIKE YOU"RE TWISTING MY ACTIONS INTO A SCUMMY LIGHT.

Your actions have been scummy (aka indicative of being scum). I'm using your actions in relations to a scumflip to show how it's likely that Ryu's scum partner would behave in that way.

I have found a distate for quite literally all of your pushes this game because they have been as follows:

1.) Gheb
2.) Rake
3.) Moira
4.) Joey (I'll give you this one, but lol he's indy so that don't count)

So in the end who have you truly pushed? A dead townie, a townie PR (more than likely), a town slot (well duh) and the indy. You have not been pushing mafia at all and it's beginning to bug me more and more.

Um, uuuummmmmmmm you realize this is the most hypocritical **** i've heard. What are Moira's pushes? have you been pushing mafia? If we were to look at our track record of who we've pushed and what we followed up on, who do you think looks better?

There is also the fact that you have been pushing my slot on nothing more than a sheer flimsy connection theory instead of looking at our combined play. You say that you look super townie, but I am not seeing that and I think others are just blinded to sweeping you under the rug as an easy read and more than willing to let you go. You have quite literally nothing in this Day-Phase until this point where you have chose to come at my slot and if you are scum, that's a ballsy *** thing to do.

Bottom line: What you need to do is actually bring up reasons against my slot and what our play has done to equivilate us being scum. Because if you are town and lynch us based off that information alone, you will gain nothing from our town flip since it was just like "Oh herp-derp, lynched the most likely candidate", but that's saying you can gain our lynch. The thing is that you are not doing unlike Ashy/No Lynch, in particular, is looking outside the connection thing to Ryu and looking at our posts and trying to find the town intent and they seem to have come to that conclusion. You on the other hand are just going full out against us over something that is quite truly trivial.

Another thing that is bugging me is pushing our slot as Ryu's scumpartner is so god damn easy that anyone could do that. It's easy to make us look like scum since we were so adamant on WATT for his play and choose wrong in the 50/50 slot. However, what you continue to leave out is the fact that we had Ryu as null and nowhere near town. I was pushing the WATT wagon, that's not a big deal like you continue to make it out to be.

Anyways this turned into a bigger response than intended, but yeah. You have some explaining to do, Big Mac. Though this can wait till toMorrow>toDay.

I don't know what you want from me bro, the ryu thing is VERY telling. It's literally basic scum tells 101. Yes, on the surface your slot hasn't given off the appearance of being anti-town or anything, but the Ryu connection (especially all your actions during that period) is very telling. Plus this whole WATT push, and the lack of doing anything else apart from that seems telling. Plus your reread was gross, your reasons for me being scum based off my first few posts were terribad and tjust gave off the impression that you were approaching your reread with the intention of making me look scummy.

anyways, you really think i'm scum huh? Do you think MacScum would have chosen a ryu lynch when the WATT lynch had more support and while you were questioning me for supporting that lynch? Especially with the idea that mafia definitely wanted a clear Ryu, why would I help make that not a reality?

 

[#HBC | J]

The WATT lynch didn't have more support, dafuq? What EoD are you reading?

But to be clear, your reasoning is: Mac == Scum because of being stubborn about ghebScum.

Stop strawmanning, this is not the point and you know this. That's the thing I notice about a lot about your responses/points against me are just you not reading what I am saying and I feel you are just trying to be bold/brazen for no reason.

I mean, to be honest, you can't convince me that I am scum and okay at that. I am not trying to convince you are scum to you and get you to vote. My analysis was meant for others because I need their votes to lynch you, not your own. Stop trying to "convince me of being scum" because toMorrow you'll be putting your foot way far down into your mouth man.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

J:

"Mac is sooooo scum because of all of his bad pushes d1... ya know despite the fact that I also pushed only town slots and he was on the Ryu lynch and I was tryna steer town away from it."

"Buuuut Mac is clearly tryna make ppl's actions look scummy, it's so disingenuous! ... but even though I've only been calling Mac out for having crappy reads, since only SCUM would ever let themselves be wrong, my reasoning is completely legit and totally not me painting Mac in a scummy light."

"Plus my interactions wrt to Ryu's lynch aren't even scummy at all! so it's soooo terrible that Mac points out these scum tells that anyone who plays mafia recognizes"

 

[#HBC | J]

I do not think either of us are coming out looking good in this argument. Mainly because I am going against the flow and pushing you as my scum-candidate and everyone else has a hard-on for you then there is also the Ryu connection which I will stand by as well yeah, oops there but like what are you going to do? I stand by my actions and choices and people need to look at the full picture over convoluted stories. And you are not looking too well after a post like your 1701 which is just blatant strawmanning to try and make your argument seem like it holds more credibility. You can twist my words all you like, Macman, but I am standing by what I say. The thing is, you do not have to be doing what you are doing. You have your vote/Rake's vote/Gorf's vote/WATT's vote and more than likely Ran's vote. That means that I am as good as dead toMorrow so your push on me is just going to look bad upon my flip.

Patience is such a hard game to play this time around. Mainly because I am impatient to just finish this up.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

I am a baddie.

GG

 

[#HBC | Mac]

The WATT lynch didn't have more support, dafuq? What EoD are you reading?

uhh yea it did.. from my #1691 earlier today

And WATT has 5 votes.

So effectively as of this post:

Red Ryu (4) - WATT, Gheb, Rake, Ranmaru
WATT (5) - Moira, No Lynch, Joey, Rockin, Red Ryu
Not voting either candidate - Gorf, Circus, Ashemu, Macman

Yeah, looking at the wagons and the votes, I am still much more content with the WATT wagon. I'm about to give Sang a call shortly and we are gonna discuss this game a bit.

i'm picking ryu

So you are choosing to join a wagon with 3 of your scum-suspects?

You are definitely going to have to explain the rational behind that.

__________

Stop strawmanning, this is not the point and you know this. That's the thing I notice about a lot about your responses/points against me are just you not reading what I am saying and I feel you are just trying to be bold/brazen for no reason.

just tryna show you n everyone else how dumb your reasons for me being scum are.. like: my bad pushes... or me being stubborn about gheb but not about ran.

I know exactly what you're saying and have been responding to all of your points...

 

[#HBC | J]

Comparing your push on Gheb as being equal to your push on Ran is garbage. You were extremely adamant on Gheb while only impartial to Ranmaru. In fact in the EoD you were said the lynch line was "Rake>Gheb>>>WATT>Ryu" or something extremely close to that nature.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

j i noticed that your arguments seem to be very selective. like... there seems to be zero interest in even considering the possibility of mac or watt being town. ill read your back n forth more during the Night but like if you're town id seriously reconsider how you look at your argument. it's not as matter of fact as you're making it out to be, like i can kinda just say "well look at how TOWNIE this action is compared to how SCUMMY yours are" and it'd mean just as much as what you're going on about. idk how to word it n if this doesn't make sense lol my b. but i won't go too far into it till toMorrow.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

although rake being on my side IS making me reconsider you as a scum read.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

J, would you lay down your life tomorrow if we lynched Mac the next day ?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I do not think either of us are coming out looking good in this argument. Mainly because I am going against the flow and pushing you as my scum-candidate and everyone else has a hard-on for you then there is also the Ryu connection which I will stand by as well yeah, oops there but like what are you going to do? I stand by my actions and choices and people need to look at the full picture over convoluted stories. And you are not looking too well after a post like your 1701 which is just blatant strawmanning to try and make your argument seem like it holds more credibility. You can twist my words all you like, Macman, but I am standing by what I say. The thing is, you do not have to be doing what you are doing. You have your vote/Rake's vote/Gorf's vote/WATT's vote and more than likely Ran's vote. That means that I am as good as dead toMorrow so your push on me is just going to look bad upon my flip.

Patience is such a hard game to play this time around. Mainly because I am impatient to just finish this up.

you keep saying i'm twisting your words or misrepresenting what you're saying, but I truly fail to see how I'm doing that. Do you have examples? I don't think my 1701 is strawmanning, I think it sums up our little conflict pretty well....

Whereas you're just straight up ignoring a lot of my points. And I don't think it's believable that you somehow don't see how my points against you are pretty legit in terms of scumhunting. I think if I was wrong about you, then you'd atleast have admitted that points have merit instead of tryna throw **** back at me about how i'm painting you in a scummy light

Comparing your push on Gheb as being equal to your push on Ran is garbage. You were extremely adamant on Gheb while only impartial to Ranmaru. In fact in the EoD you were said the lynch line was "Rake>Gheb>>>WATT>Ryu" or something extremely close to that nature.

Not sure what you're referencing here but, I don't think I've tried to say my pushes were equal. I was on gheb ALL day, i was on ran until his next post. I was saying: that you were giving me **** for being stubborn, despite hopping off ran and watt | you were giving me **** for not hopping off gheb the way I hopped of ran.

 

[#HBC | J]

I do understand what you are trying to say in your post and I do get that I may be coming across as tunnely. However, I have hit that point in the game where I am just PoE'ing the game and going from there. My method works and does have a full-proof thing of solidifying town a win if I am just able to get what I want done which includes HBC'ing Macman/WATT/Rockin out of here. I feel Macman is the strongest one and also the one I could get if I pushed it. Rockin is too easy and honestly the read I am most null on in the game and then there is WATT which people want to keep leaving alive (besides Circus) and just welp. I honestly I feel that I am just on the track to finalizing this game as long as I keep up what I am doing. Sang played the former half of the game so now it is my turn to finish the puzzle, especially with two scum-down.

I mean, I can re-evaluate things and go over my notes again, but I do not see things like

NL+Ryu = Scum-team
Ashy+Ry = Scum-team
Gorf+Ryu = Scum-team
Rake+Ryu = Scum-team
Circus+Ryu = Scum-team
Ran+Ryu = Scum-team

That leaves the other three as possibilities due to their lacking of disconnections/connections. (WATT is just one of those I probably seriously need to relook at but I am just bugged out as hell based on the way they have played this game and if they are telling the truth. I do not believe that all the PRs claimed are town.)

 

[#HBC | J]

J, would you lay down your life tomorrow if we lynched Mac the next day ?

Hell no, why would I let myself be lynched as town? You have no place to be trying to make ultimatums towards me so shoo.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i should prolly start proofreading my posts... eh **** it

J, would you lay down your life tomorrow if we lynched Mac the next day ?

i'd be down with this as long as I can go free once J flips scum

 

[#HBC | J]

Yeah, you gotta hack my role PM though to make that happen, Big Mac.

 

[#HBC | J]

I'm also of the impression that the scum-team is 10.2.1. and not 10.3.1 because if it is a three man team that makes the set-up hella swingy especially if town has (apparantly) no protective PRs.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Why wouldn't you J ? If it was a guaranteed Macman lynch and your pushing a 10-2-1 i dont see why you dying first would be such a big deal

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Also, I know your Rockin read changed a little but i find your reasoning pretty lackluster, even from your lynch pool it seems like your setting up for the possibility that Mac won't flip scum

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Could you re-hash in more detail why Rockin has become more of a nullish read ?

 

[#HBC | J]

I'm not going to be selfish and say "Yeah **** ya'll lynch me because of my reads I have and my flip will proof it!" because if I am wrong we just throw our advantage of 2 back-to-back scum-lynches to that of two back-to-back town lynches.

Me dying first is of course a big deal because here's the thing: I am not confirmed scum like Ryu and Joey were. And the other fact is unlike the other two, I am not scum and actually town.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Also, it wasn't even an ultimatum but it's interesting to note you took it as one.
In addition if we assume Mac is the last of the mafia, why would he be so eager for my idea to go through ?

 

[#HBC | J]

Also, I know your Rockin read changed a little but i find your reasoning pretty lackluster, even from your lynch pool it seems like your setting up for the possibility that Mac won't flip scum

Rockin has been just a gut-town lean and that's it. Never really been a hard one but based on current information I may be giving him more rope than I needed to. Sure he could be rusty towny as well which is why he is just a null-read at this point. I do not feel confident enough to swing that way but if he is left around with the rest of my town-reads, he should go.