ZOMBIES! Mafia - Who Survived the Apocalypse?

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

I also don't have any info regarding Rockin

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i'm trying to work up interest in this game again #proddodging

it'd be cool if rake revealed his info

 

[Wots All This Then?]

No I'm not Im just drilling you because I think Moria should go toDay

Just for the tidbits I stated, or do you have something more?

Villianizing is an interesting word though.

Since your obviously pushin rockin scum, why do you think he butts heads with Joey in particular ?

Because he wants to defend himself being lazy as **** in his reasonings. Admitting it's not Joey's fault his contributions are at the level of

Jeeze, it seems a lot of people suck at keeping PR powers to themselves this game XD

means admitting that it's HIS fault he's throwing lynches out without discussing why, and that would be scummy (which it is).

 

[Rockin]

Heya guys, I'm here this evening. I'll be reading up the thread very soon.

 

[Rockin]

ok, but both ryu and watt would've given information the next day after being lynched, and you argued watt was a better choice at least partially because he'd give more, which isn't a reason when both flips give info

also again why didnt you look at the two players' dayplay when deciding between the lynches

I did actually.

I looked reread back on the confrontations both had. I knew before the re-read that Ryu hardly had any strong interactions nor did he had a strong presence. Regardless, I gave both of them a look at.

WATT had some interaction with a bunch of people. A lot of the reasoning I didn't agree with (which I'll explain again in detail), but there was still some sort of confrontation. Then there was also the claim he did and how he claimed. If he were to be lynched, we'd know what his role is and I'm sure I'd get SOME sort of info out of it.

Ryu was barely the opposite. when I first read through, he had little to nothing of worth, and the only type of interactions (which were pretty weak) was just people trying to figure out where he stood as far as meta or just psudo town/scum reads. The only reason he was even considered was the random claim of 'Watcher.' That was it.

This is why I wanted a WATT lynch more then a ryu lynch. A ryu lynch was worthless to me, cause I gain NOTHING from the previous interactions except his claim. That's all I get. I want more then that. I want leads.

I'd also like to point out that villainizing Joey and Gorf for noticing his lack of contribution but not asking him direct questions is entirely BS and scummy. It's not other people's job to actively make a slot useful, that's the slot's job. They're not somehow scum for noticing without lowballing you questions to give content with, you're already supposed to be doing that. It's like saying a random employer is at fault for you not having a job because they saw you didn't have one and asked you why instead of giving you one on the spot without you asking. That's definitely still your fault.

Point is, them two were in the background just pointing out my lack of existance instead of doing anything about it. When I was mentioned by others, they at least did something about it. why shouldn't they?

Yes, it's my job to pick up the slack on my own slot, but that doesn't mean they couldn't just grilled me/do something about my lack of presence instead of relying on others to do it.

@ Rockin

@Underlined: Are you saying you also agreed with the points some of the other WATT wagoners had?

If not why are you still voting us now after a Ryu scumflip? The more info line of thought is gone, so what's the current vote for.

I didn't like the reasoning of some of the points (felt like they either talked about meta or just previous other games).

My reason of vote was how you claimed, and the wording behind it. I don't feel comfortable, nor do I completely agree/buy that you're a cop/investigative role, and I currently rather see you gone then waiting on a lylo situation (which happens EVERY FREAKING TIME).

 

[Circus]

Circus, I don't think you understand that my comments were in response to the idea of Ryu + Joey being a scum team together, and that my opinion is that it wouldn't make any sense to me at this time for Joey and Ryu to be scum together.

No, the comments were in response to the idea of you and Ryu being scum together. You responded by saying that if you were hypothetical scum hypothetically bussing a mate (Ryu), then Joey would have been the easier candidate. And you seem to have pulled Joey kind of from thin air.

I'll reread in a moment to see if I'm misremembering this.

Haven't read WATT's big post yet but a Rockin lynch seems like about the least interesting lynch we could go for right now.

 

[Circus]

Why would scum joey vote rockin though, the direction is really weak at best and even in Joey's arguments for it, it seems just like a bit of a fluffed up lynch on a inactive duder. Which makes me really feel not amazing about Joey scum because as I recall he's at east a little better at scum than to do this.

You're argument is literally "it's too textbook to actually be scum?"

How much experience do you actually have with scum Joey?

I also don't like the Joey + Ryu idea, Joey's flippant Ryu defense of saying it's just normal Ryu stuff seems like to gutsy a hand grenade to dive on especially considering the Ryu hate wasn't even culminating into the lynch yet. I suppose you could say joey had a knee jerk scum reaction and was trying to write off what his partner was doing, but if they were really chatting i feel Ryu would be telling Joey not to overreact to the pressure because the connection could look bad.

I also disagree with Circus that joey's vote then Ryu's is a scum tell,considering Joey had already whiteknighted Ryu once it's hard for me to see why he'd then just flop a vote on Ryu with ****ty reasoning that any half decent scummer would know, would read of a bus and be too dangerous to try and swing considering their previous interactions.

And now white knighting Ryu isn't scummy because it's too out of the ordinary? And then jumping on the wagon at the last minute is too obvious?

You keep making excuses for his play. What would Joey have to do to garner your suspicion?

Also, you're misinterpreting bus, the transportation method (which I meant), and bus as in the idea of me, ryu and joey being a scum tri-fecta and having some sort of kill the Joey plan, which is silly because I hate bussing with a passion as scum because I not only hate the idea of purposefully forging connections with your mates when you don't need to necessarily, and the fact that if you bus too well or too poorly that the fine bussing line you walk will crumble under you.

I did misinterpret that...but why in hell would you be using that version of the term here?

 

[Ashemu]

rake just give us your god damn info, if you really are an info role its stupid to paint a beacon of "HEY SCUM I KNOW SOMETHING PLEASE ROLEBLOCK MY FACE"' if youre not going to tell the town

 

[Ashemu]

unvote

 

[Moira]

Hi guys, sorry for the inactivity, both sides have been rather busy. The J side will be busy more this week since he is working the Watch Dogs midnight release/day after. Sang side will be here tomorrow to do more.

For now J side is here to play! I'm going to be doing a post by post thing of anything that grabs my attention when I read.

does somebody want to tell me why circus' slot is town

If anyone hasn't answered this (since it seems a habit most of your questions get ignored), I'll swing at it. Circus is town for pretty decent reasons as compared to other town reads people have been throwing around. He ranks in our category of like 3/4th of most likely to be town but can be determined on a later date. Circus is a good player, but when he is town it is hella more obvious than that when he is scum. *Kind of like me in a way*

Regardless of meta, here's some actual meat to bite into. Circus is probably the only player in this game looking for scum and actually trying to look for solutions to dilemma. I love his talking down of the WATT wagon because it not only is logical but it is that of a townie trying to figure out the puzzle of the game. YesterDay he also came into the game and just straight up ****ed Ryu outta here when he could have jumped onto the WATT wagon with me since he found him equally disgusting but didn't. That, to me, does not look like scum lynching their buddy.

However, here's the kicker, that QL though. I mean That QL really had some interesting developments because it gave people some good "brownie townie" points for being on the lynch and some others *like ourselves* who weren't on the lynch some negative nancy points. Circus is in the good category for now and his play has not been indicative of him playing scummy. There are a couple I could see as Circus watching his steps if we were to consider CircusIndy, but at the time, CircusMafia? Really highly doubt this.

So let me turn the question around onto you, why do you feel the need to bring up this question? Do you suspect Circus or

*Hint* Circus is one of our big not mafia reads. Indy would be a fun game to play, but **** indies. (I'm still bitter, Ashy, at Kanty's bull**** win in Rake's game)

@No Lynch drama, seriously guys get that stuff out of here. We don't deal with virgins of thought. Come back when it's all compiled nicely. It just makes for a headache to read. (Zen, *wink-nudge-wink*)

J is usually more open to things and reconsidering himself from what I remember. I'm not sure how kuch sang has been influencing this but I don't like how tunnelvisioned he is being considering how openly we put ourselves in this situation

Actually, ignore Sang for the time being. I have been the one driving the lynch you to hell and not look back. Your play is not only scummy, it is by far terrible. It's a double whammy of atrocity that I cannot believe either of your side has done or do. You forget that I am not a PL'er if that's so that's not why I am after you so vehemently. It's because I am disturbed by your play and having a hard time seeing the TOWN intent by what you have done this game. You have done nothing to try and find scum nor scum-hunt and that's present in toDay's play as well where you just respond to people's questions or converse with them for a second and then just sit down and not do much. You have a huge post on this slot and Rockin which I will get to in a bit, but this needed to be adressed first. The fact that you fake-claimed, changed your claim, and then just ugh. I am just not happy at all with your slot and it may be more out of game gripes about your play that I need to re-evaluate but seriously, you can just **** right on outta here HBC style and I will not cry if you did flip Town Cop Variation. However, I'm here to win and not to lynch for prejudices so for now: You can live, but like hell will you be around if it comes down to LyLo if I have anything to say about it.

Unvote

Just got to @ Shun Goku Satsu Rake crumbing yet another PR or Info thing. So I am going to have a little segment here for everyone in the game. Can people stop doing this? Like honestly, crumbing or flat-out claiming your role for no particular reason or saying "I HAVE IMPORTANT INFO but I'm gonna keep it to myself" is utter bologna. Seriously, stop, if you are a PR this is not how you play as a PR. If you have actual info that will help actually get scum-lynched, come forward. Otherwise, if it's nothing, just keep those pretty little mouths shut and shuffle along. Moving on to the WATT post, I am going to break it up a bit:

Moira had and as far as I know still has a full tunnel on our slot all of D1 that isn't being addressed, but refuses to hard scum-read Ryu at the same time.

How is this scummy? I was the main pusher of your lynch and truly wanted you dead yesterDay. Of course we didn't hard-scum read Ryu. His play was utterly null and that's a fact. The real reason he got lynched was claiming Watcher so haphazardly and people jumping on that bandwagon, plus you are forgetting to mention that he was QL'd.

You say in your next paragraph that we should be considered for our "scare tactic" on Macman to get him to lynch you>Ryu. Ironic, because you are using a scare tactic yourself with this part of your post:

but I haven't heard anyone say anything or even discuss Moira as good or bad toDay and I think that should change. Based on just how reluctant they are to see a Ryu wagon go through under any circumstances before either us, Gheb, or even Gorf is suspicious. I think they should be considered among possible Ryu partners.

You say that we should be considered for possibly Ryu partners solely based on us wanting you dead over him. I am not going to back down from what I said because I have no reason to back down. I stand by what I said and what I have been saying: Your play has been scummy as balls. Ryu's was null. You can call us scum for not being on the Ryu wagon and all that jazz but it's a weak as hell point because of the events that transpired the rest of the day. Anyone can take an action and paint in a bad light if just looked at superficially like you are choosing to do here.

So if you have any other transgressions towards our play we would love to combat them because right now you have not really delved into our play as a whole.

The next couple posts I found, personally, funny. Here is WATT posting a mini-case on us based on the Ryu vote and look who comes along with a new-founded revelation that he hasn't said at all toDay:

No I'm not Im just drilling you because I think Moria should go toDay

I don't want to undercut your Rockin bit too much but Moria just needs to go.

Vote : Moria

You say that we "just needs to go" but why? That's the big thing you have left out of your train of thought. You have not said anything at all about us toDay and then after WATT comes in and makes a post at us, here you come in with this vote to lynch us? Yeah, no. That is not going to fly at all. You need to explain, clearly and concisely why we should go toDay. If you want us lynched, don't be a ***** and just come at us. (and at least spell the name correctly ;_; ) You also need to stop your bull as I said above regarding your "info" and stop saying "it walks a fine line".

You consciously brought it up in discussion in the thread so you had a reason for doing so. So out with it already.

i'm trying to work up interest in this game again #proddodging

it'd be cool if rake revealed his info

Get back in the game and stop playing lurky towny. You were a force yesterDay but now you've kind of fallen back a bit. You say Rake is the way to go toDay, let's talk more on this. What do you think of his more recent vote on us?

Haven't read WATT's big post yet but a Rockin lynch seems like about the least interesting lynch we could go for right now.

I liked your post for this little excerpt here. The Rockin lynch seems abysmal and just not a good one to take toDay when there are wagons like Joey/Rake that need to be pushed. However, yesterDay you were saying Rockin was more than likely Ryu's partner. Here's the quote I am talking about:

Hi, game.

So Ryu scum. With Rockin as most out of touch buddy and maybe Gorf basic distancing? Hm.

Will wait for a vote count before dropping anything but anyone picking to keep Ryu over WATT in this scenario is a dummy or sus.

The fact that this was your intro post has me wondering why it changed, so talk to me about why Rockin went from being most possibly buddy to "least interesting lynch". I would also like an update on your Gorf read, right now all Gorf has done is just be really uncharacteristically overtly not pleasant to read (@Gorf: Why is this? Talk it out with me if you can. Also can you just explain your blatant sheeping as well?) and his sheeping as mentioned in that cutaway. You say he coud have "basic distancing" but what do you think now?

-------
Okay, I am caught up and things. Sang has advised me on holding our vote for right now because she wants to isolate read Joey herself and see what she comes across.

 

[Ashemu]

wow those are a lot of words
vote: WATT
i guess im not going to be able to quickhammer any time soon. get this grimy slot out of the game so we can actually play mafia without a division of "do you or do you not believe the cop claim" imo

i maintain that if watt is the cop then there's zero reason for scum to jan gheb n1.

rockins responses were actually good
i wasnt scumreading circus but was curious what people had to say

 

[Moira]

Why do you vote WATT when I just said he can live because ughughughugh.

You are such a ****-tease you know that?

 

[Moira]

Though I agree I like Rockin more based on his response to WATT and Rockin came out looking more on top in the RockinXxXSexy Officer argument. So kudos to Rockin for finally being on top for once.

 

[Ashemu]

wah wah rolespec but i seriously don't buy that a guy claims cop then goes a night without getting blocked or shot, especially if we really do have two scumteams (unlikely). "buuut scum might be able to mislynch him!" yea or he could get a guilty and **** them over further with one anti-town already dead. it's not worth risking. but nope, he pulls off his scan and the guy who gets shot is the scummy dude who went down shouting that INVESTIGATIVE ROLECLAIMS SHOULD NOT BE TRUSTED, and his role mysteriously doesnt flip

also the flavor claim is awful. what the hell is an "investigative citizen"

 

[Ashemu]

i also don't buy into the "if he's scum we can leave him alive because he has to produce results" train of thought, because if he's scum then his fake scans will control who we lynch from

 

[Moira]

Investigative citizen is probably my biggest gripe with his complaint. But that's flavor nonsense and should be taken with a grain of salt.

Okay let's look at this from a different point of view. Let's say the Abductor/Kidnapper/whatever *Sang's bet is on the flavor being Mercenary* is an anti-town and anti-Mafia faction solo. Mafia needs something to try and protect them from that and based on Ryu's claim of "two scum-teams" and his actual claim of Watcher actually makes sense in this set-up. The Watcher can help protect the mafia if they Watch townies and also can determine PRs and that jazz which benefits them as well. However, the problem I am having is that WATT is claiming Cop and investigative. No one has CC'd this and the thing that is having me wanting to believe his play more and just put him on ignore for the game would be this:

WATT is a weak cop. Not an actual full cop. He says his results are "mafia and not mafia" which makes me believe that the increasing ability of an indy is there. (Had this thought yesterDay when he full-claimed finally). Based on what you claimed, we have you being a networker/friendly neighbor. (you are in the boat too, missy, on claiming for no damn reason) Thing though is that WATT being a weak cop would be our only investigative looking at this set-up wise. If we do lose our cop, we are severely hurting our odds.

However, here is the biggest kicker. WATT is already pronounced a bloody liar. I cannot trust their word this game and have lost my trust in them. I cannot believe anything they say at face value because of what they have done this game. They had no reason at all to CC watcher and the reason they did it is bull. "We CC'd just to get Ryu lynched because we felt strongly" is so damn selfish and bad. However, could WATT be scum with Ryu? I don't even know. Why would a scum-team do that in any rational train of thought? It does not make sense. Yes, even if we were to consider the types of players involved (Ryu/Orbo/Ditzy) then this blunder of play from a scum-team can come into light. I have faith in them as human beings to not have ****ed up that hard.

I feel I am more trying to jam the WATT puzzle piece into any scum-equation I can find to just get them lynched, but honestly, I can't lynch them without biting my lip really hard and closing my eyes about their flip. If they flip town, not going to be too sad OoG, but in-game? Losing what may be our only investigative would be terrible.

LAL is a dumb policy, but one I am starting to see as more viable in situations such as the one we are presented in. WATT needs to be taught a lesson, but *sigh* Are they scum? **** if I know.

 

[Moira]

I need to go re-read the set-up of Mario Kart mafia because that was the last game that had an abductor besides Majora's Mask (one of them) but a set-up I am more familiar with. *plus it's a good read*

The last time I saw a janitor was Villains mafia (@Gorf Hella flashback/nostalgia amiright?) if my memory is correct.

 

[Ashemu]

i think the solution to the scum team not playing optimally if watt is scum is just that the scum team didn't play optimally. it'd also mean the entire scenario was manufactured to give watt town cred. turning teh chessboard over theres no good reason for town!watt to fake watcher to get ryu lynched off a read from a threadskim, but there is good reason for scum!watt to fakeclaim watcher to distance himself from ryu even further.

 

[Ashemu]

for that matter, perhaps watt goign down was never the scumteams plan. they wanted it to look like he was making a last ditch attempt to get ryu first, so that ryu, the real watcher, would survive once watt was sunk. he had to change his claim because we foiled their intent

 

[Circus]

All this red text is making my eyes hurt.

 

[Ashemu]

so, to line out my theory:
- ryu, scum watcher is getting lynched. since he, you know, doesnt want to get lynched, he claims his safeclaim, town watcher
- wagons shift around.... but onto ryu's scumbuddy, watt
- watt realizes hes ****ed, so to make ryu look as good as possible, he counterclaims watcher to give ryu cred as he sinks. to cement this, he makes his claim look as bad as possible with fake flavor, not wanting to waste the real fakeclaim that dark horse gave gthem
- this backfires as town decides to off ryu instead. ryu flipping watcher would make watt look questionable as hell, so he argues multiple scumteams to confuse town
- watt comes up with a new investigative claim - but he still can't use a mod-given fakeclaim, so his flavor claim continues to be abysmal
- gheb, probably the real investigative role, catches onto the plan as ryu dies and urges us not to trust the investigative claims. HOWEVER, the scum janitor notices this! and so gheb is shot without a flip, and town is left none the wiser
- watt is not roleblocked and produces a result because he's, you know, scum

waht do u htink every1?

 

[Moira]

I can change it to white if it is becoming too much of a bother.

Also re-looking at the MK Mafia set-up, it poses some interesting facts (minus the kart switching mechanic). Here is a link to the role-pm set-up.
MK Mafia Set-up

This is just a curiosity tangent of mine. Could hold something, could hold nothing but meh better to have more info then less.

 

[Moira]

A theory is a theory till proven to have concrete evidence.

It's a plausible theory considering what went down. Could it be the end all? We would need WATT's flip to see your theory and that's the entire thing it latches onto. That flip.

Circus, would you lynch WATT toDay>Rockin+others?

 

[Ashemu]

well im not saying "watt is scum because of this theory", but it explains why it's plausible for him to be scum in spite of how odd the interactions between him and ryu seem on the surface. if you want to talk about why watt is scum in terms of dayplay, there's how awful his day 1 was up until he was forced to claim, and he hasn't really done anything to fix the slot since then

 

[Circus]

I liked your post for this little excerpt here. The Rockin lynch seems abysmal and just not a good one to take toDay when there are wagons like Joey/Rake that need to be pushed. However, yesterDay you were saying Rockin was more than likely Ryu's partner. Here's the quote I am talking about:



The fact that this was your intro post has me wondering why it changed, so talk to me about why Rockin went from being most possibly buddy to "least interesting lynch". I would also like an update on your Gorf read, right now all Gorf has done is just be really uncharacteristically overtly not pleasant to read (@Gorf: Why is this? Talk it out with me if you can. Also can you just explain your blatant sheeping as well?) and his sheeping as mentioned in that cutaway. You say he coud have "basic distancing" but what do you think now?

That post (my first of the game) has excruciatingly little thought behind it. I finished skimming/reading and just decided to drop into the conversation head first. I was spitballing, if you will. Ryu scum was clear, and I made a quick and dirty list of buddy possibilities mostly for the sake of a reaction. Rockin was playing a very bad D1 in general—one of his posts justifying WATT over Ryu as the lynch candidate seemed to be using such backwards logic that I basically just wanted to knee-jerk oust the slot—and the only way to characterize that alongside Ryu obvscum was as misguided buddy. I have since very much settled on Rockin being dumb/rusty town.

Was reading Gorf as pretty null based solely on play as I read through D1; for some reason he jumped out at me among the people against Ryu as a potential busser toward the end. I'd have to reread to remember exactly why he stood out, but I don't think that's worth my time or yours. I lean town (or "not mafia," really) on him now, mostly because I think WATT is telling the truth about Gorf regardless of whether or not he's faking his role.

 

[Circus]

Circus, would you lynch WATT toDay>Rockin+others?

 

[Moira]

We still have a week to go before we need to absolutely end the day. My feelings on who should go?

One of WATT/Rake/Joey. Sang may change it up a bit after her re-read, but Rockin should not be lynched toDay and should be in the pile with NL/Ashy/Mac/Circus. Gorf is like that damn limbo slot that I am having trouble reading. He's more with Joey at the end of the spectrum and I am having a hard time reading Joey this game but the last time I ISO'd him, I leaned town.

 

[Ashemu]

im still certain rake wouldn't be doing the cagey "guys i have info but won't out it teehee" song and dance if he were scum. that stuff's a towntell and rake doesn't strike me as somebody who would attempt to mimic it

 

[Ashemu]

not to mention, what info is he going to have to out if the scum investigative pr is dead?

 

[Moira]

You should read Tranquility mafia, just saying.

 

[Ashemu]

i did a while ago but dont remember rake handling the claim the same way. i dont really remember any of it too well though.

 

[Circus]

im still certain rake wouldn't be doing the cagey "guys i have info but won't out it teehee" song and dance if he were scum. that stuff's a towntell and rake doesn't strike me as somebody who would attempt to mimic it

I do think you have a point here but am not interested in giving Rake legroom until he reveals the info. Let's not pretend Rake claiming to have information and then withholding it makes sense as town either.

 

[Moira]

It's more fresh in my mind since I recently read through it. The fact that Rake is just sitting on his hands bugs the ever living day-light out of me and his new found push on me is gross right after someone else mentions our name.

 

[Circus]

not to mention, what info is he going to have to out if the scum investigative pr is dead?

I mean, he could just claim he got a random anonymous message. Plus Jan gets privy to info from the players they Jan; Rake could conceivably spin something with that. Or hell, the role we're assuming is an abductor could be more complex than we think.

Just spitballin' again.

 

[Moira]

J needs sleep. It's 4:30 and I have to get up in 5 hours. Ugh work. Anyways, I'm out.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

VOTECOUNT:
Moira [0] - Rake.
Wots All This Then? [2] - Rockin, Ashemu
-Masquerain- [0] -
Ashemu [0] -
Gorf [0] -
No Lynch [0] -
Macman [0] -
Rake. [2] - Macman, Gorf
Rockin [2] - -Masquerain-, Wots All This Then?
Circuss [0] -

Not Voting -Circus, No Lynch, Moira

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Gorf visited WATT last night.

DISCUSS

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

I mean, he could just claim he got a random anonymous message. Plus Jan gets privy to info from the players they Jan; Rake could conceivably spin something with that. Or hell, the role we're assuming is an abductor could be more complex than we think.

Just spitballin' again.

god that game, i really never should be protown as town

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Also, the reason we dominated Tranquility is because Me, Dietz, Gheb and Kantrip ran that **** from the get go. There was no point where we weren't aware of or controlling the pace of the game and where people aimed themselves, it took quite a bit of time and thread presence in order to achieve that. The fact that I'm sparingly here but attempting to be as protwon as I can when I am here should tell you I'm a bro this time

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Long post by J

Now, tell me my information doesn't walk a fine line