ZOMBIES! Mafia - Who Survived the Apocalypse?

[ranmaru]

cuz **** this game

That's not good enough. I actually want you to finish your original argument with me on NL, actually. It's important in my read on you now. You read him townie from really early on. I asked you for NLtown reasoning but you just repeated again. Why is he town.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

and yea it is, i've already been crowned duke of obvtowniness so i get to sit back and coast the rest of the game

but to appease your concerns...
i've been coming to similar conclusions that the soup side has, same with zen (until more recently). and he stuck to his rantown opinion (that noone else shared at the time) despite a lot of momentum being behind your wagon

 

[Ashemu]

also so we're clear i buy ran-town now. also leaning nl town after the wall of text which doesn't seem like scumlogic even if i think his thoughts on me are dumb

mac howre you reading ryu

quoting since it got paged. also, thoughts on gorf considering zen's case?

 

[Rockin]

@ Rockin : Saw you there man. Anything to contribute?

No, just mostly reading up and seeing what's going on. I'd respond sooner, but I had a lack of time.

even now, today is pretty restricting. I went shopping throughout most of the afternoon, and now I'm attending Bum's Marvel's tournament (just to watch). Once I come back, I'll be sure to read up on everything and give a more proper response to everything.

 

[ranmaru]

my other issues with him aren't worth it considering that I think NL is more townie than not and he still has a strong town read on ran for meta reasons, ones which i can kinda understand

This right here. I asked if you could finish the argument with me so I can see why you think I was wrong. (Especially if you still think my logic was bad in that instance)

Also thanks for explaining the read. Just you finishing the argument will help me.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i wanted to let gorf respond b4 i talk about the case on him

but idk, i don't really see zen's points. gorf be mudslinging, ok but that's not inherently scummy. Especially if the mud being slung has some thought behind it. and then the gorf/ranmaru seemed like a stretch

not to say i think gorf is town, i think he's a useful asset tho (hehe) and it'd be pretty ridiculous to lynch him today. If i HAD to lean a direction on gorf, i'd still say town. More interested in how gheb/everyone else views gorf's slot.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

oh and on ryu, he;s been completely off my radar - not enough content. but i'd be down with a ryu lynch

 

[#HBC | Mac]

ugh all these questions

ran i barely even remember what your reasoning was. I just remember i had the same reaction as soup and iirc you started pushing him as scum for seemingly trying to paint WATT in a negative light. which was absurd to me cuz i had the same reaction as soup. Then you argument about why WATT's responses were seemingly fine were incredibly dumb to me but most of that was due to me misreading WATTs #42 (damn, i;m mad i remember that post number). i don't remember what else you said but i remember it sounding dumb

 

[Ashemu]

personally i like nl's case on gorf - less because of the "mudslinging" and more because him zigzagging between "scumhunting is good" and a sheepy armchair approach reminds me of scumgames i've had in the past - i want to look protown so ill put up solid content now and then but im not actually town so ill randomly revert to being lazy and going with the flow. of course gorf isn't me but it makes me feel uneasy

i'm gonna say the best place to look for scum right now is watt/gorf/ryu, then rockin/frozen as leftovers. but id prefer to get watt/ryu over gorf just because gorf can be trusted to produce

 

[Ashemu]

i re-read nl's post. i feel i should point out that i bolded gorf's name because gorf would be obvtown following a ran flip, not because gorf was obvtown then. if you read my questioning of moira its evident ive never really townread gorf today

 

[Ashemu]

ran scumflip, that is.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

^ thats the conclusion i came to when i read your post

just saying

and vote: watt

 

[ranmaru]

ugh all these questions

ran i barely even remember what your reasoning was.

My #87 and my #92. My #282 also clarifies your issues you had when you came in.

I just want you to be thorough, and I know you to be thorough with arguments. It's pretty bad to see that you consider it dumb while I still think it's solid reasoning.

Sorry for bombarding you with requests man.

 

[ranmaru]

and vote: watt

...

Why watt now instead of Gheb?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

ran:

i didn't even know we were arguing

its just that its wholly useless and i dont feel like thinking about it since i think both you and NL are town and i know this is just so you can have a better sense of my alignment but i really dont feel like going to reread up on all that **** just to prove myself. =/

also i think ive already said all that needed to be said wrt that situ

 

[#HBC | Mac]

watt's always been a scumspect of mine

 

[ranmaru]

watt's always been a scumspect of mine

>_> I know that. Last I heard you said your reasoning was still to be in reserve. I am just wondering since you were so adamant in your Gheb push, why you would be convinced to move from Gheb to Watt. Did NL give you reason to do so?

 

[ranmaru]

its just that its wholly useless

You should always be constantly questioning your town reads. Anyways I'll drop this here for now then if you really don't intend to do it. I'll come back to this later. I promise.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

ran am i scum? yes or no

if no, recognize there's no need to ask me such qs
if yes, recognize that i'm not gonna answer them and that is anti-town and vote for me

 

[ranmaru]

No. You are null. I'm trying to wrangle out clear intent. I have some gut scumreads that I'm working on solidifying at the moment. I already dropped the questioning though, as I don't think you intend to answer the questions.

 

[Dooms]

No Lynch, Macman, Ashemu, Ranmaru, Red Ryu, Rake are my town reads.

Gheb is also a town lean. I like is push on WATT except for the fact that he slightly overgeneralized what WATT has done in the game so far, and I don't understand why he gets on WATT for having easy reads and not having a scum read when Soup was literally in the exact same boat. Other than that, everything else Gheb has posted more than

I can't read J. At all. It's really bad actually :/. Moira null and I'm probably just going to listen to the town on this one.

FF is null.

I want more from Rockin. He hasn't really done much at all, and his entrance is a load of fluff imo. If his incoming post doesn't have more content in it, I'm going to be suspicious to say the least.

Gord and WATT are actually my scum reads. I don't really feel the need to go into detail about WATT, since literally everything against him has already been stated. WATT is my weaker scum read of the two though since I'm honestly waiting for the slot to actually get into the game since it kind of seems like they just haven't truly started playing yet.

Gord's case on Gheb is really weird to me. Him attacking Gheb for having those two as his only town reads when Gheb has stated repeatedly that he feels that those two players and himself are the only ones actually playing the game looks fishy to me. I don't understand what's so suspicious about it. His thoughts on Ranmaru can be seen clearly through the fact that Gheb thinks Ran was playing like ****. It's pretty obvious he thinks that about everyone that isn't Ashemu & Macman, too. Saying that half of Gheb's WATT case is total bull**** doesn't settle well with me in the slightest, and I don't understand why he would just call it bull**** and just leave it like that. Gord also says that Gheb's analysis outside of the first paragraph is correct but shallow is really idiotic because that's literally all we can get from WATT, which is why he'd be suspicious in the first place. :| In the end, Gord accuses Gheb of trying to force "bad = scum" logic even though Gheb doesn't believe in it, which is a very reaching point to make, especially considering that he thinks EVERYONE is playing poorly except for himself, Ashemu, and Macman.

Outside of his Gheb case, Gord really hasn't done much at all since the RVS stage of the game.

Gord, you should probably go into your other reads instead of just calling them gay (although I did find that really hilarious lool).

Vote: Gord

 

[Ashemu]

Other than that, everything else Gheb has posted more than

um

 

[Moira]

*cough* Vote WATT>Gorf for now *cough*

Will find you a vote-count to make sure it isn't too close.

Ashy honey, why the discontent with us? Let's talk it through.

 

[Ashemu]

tbh i just find you really hard to read and felt like you exited the nl argument not actually interested in reading them. i also think you townreading people because you agree with them is arbitrary and possibly scum attempting to buddy. though come to think of it you did that in canadafia too. i dont know

 

[Dooms]

everything else Gheb has posted is null for me.

That's what it was supposed to say hahaha.

 

[Moira]

Yeah, Joey, WATT only has 4 votes (Me/Gheb/Ashy/Macman) putting him at L-2 at this point would help us be able to read the slot/interactions of others.

 

[Dooms]

Vote: WATT

I'm okay with that.

 

[Ashemu]

we could also put him at L-0

 

[Moira]

tbh i just find you really hard to read and felt like you exited the nl argument not actually interested in reading them. i also think you townreading people because you agree with them is arbitrary and possibly scum attempting to buddy. though come to think of it you did that in canadafia too. i dont know

I am hard to read most games. Some games I am super transparent. It really depends on how I step into it. #meta. It's also because half the posts have been mine and the other half has been a slot you never played with who is a stoic poster (Sangfroid). Also when I say I like someone does not mean I town-read them lol, gotta look at things above surface level when looking at me as a player. Me and Zen are different though.

I buddy everyone, btw. I love having fun with people and treating this game as a fun social experience.

Speaking on the NL thing which could actually hold more weight, I can talk more. Sang was the one posting mainly during that time with me on the phone, but the way I exited the "NL argument" without being interested in a read was because I was not at the time. I was interested in calming Soup does as a person over things related to the game. I feel he was having a rotten time and would like him to have a calm-down before he got himself lynched based on policy. The only posts that I can truly take credit for was the "Special someone" posts from my phone. As a whole slot/hydra, we were wanting to get Soup to relax and then focus on reading him because Soup is really transparent as a player (that isn't an insult, just a way of reading). I feel I can read the Zen side much easier and quicker and being able to see him post over Soup has helped me read the slot better and see him as town. I do not agree with his scum-team persay because there are too many variables but there is logic to it regarding the people who have posted. It has just a tinge of Zen conspiracy that makes me giggle with joy. It's mainly meta, but I have not ever read No Lynch as scum and do see more town than scum in his posts.

If we were to talk "teams" at this juncture with who posted I would probably kick your slot out and then add Ryu to it. Gorf/Ryu/WATT makes more sense and then possibly Rake is a slot I would like to talk more. FF just needs to post or replace out. (Get me my lovable Circus in here please). WATT needs to go though in my opinion first. Hollow scum-hunting and phoning it in way too much. Plus nearly everyone has made an opinion on this slot and we would gain a plethora of connections.

 

[Ashemu]

how do you feel about rockin?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

at this point i'm more interested in who doesn't find watt scummy

 

[Moira]

Rockin is null. Which way he leans? High probability he is busy town>scum. *shrug* He has a whole lot of nothing with no real reads on anyone. Kind of makes him hard to read himself.

 

[Moira]

*Higher

Though I guess it really stays the same in translation.

 

[Ashemu]

thats fair. thanks for responding, i feel a bit better about you now. personally i dont like rockins posts for lack of reads but get this feeling his tone is that of busy and/or out-of-practice town.

 

[Moira]

My turn.

Talk to me about Joey. I feel you do not read him as town. I am leaning town on him.

 

[Ashemu]

joey has been my strongest townread the entire day so idk how you came up with that. see this post and the following. his recent content and responses to ran have also been satisfying. actually i get the impression you never read that post of mine. why not?

 

[Ashemu]

well, "the entire day" apart from early on when i pushed him. but if you were reading my posts following that i made it pretty clear i thought his posts following my early vote were town.

 

[Moira]

I think I am having you mistaken for someone else. My apologies there. Still I remember reading that and seeing you hate No Lynch/Discontent with me. Found WATT scummy and then have Gheb/Joey as your biggest town-reads.

I'm actually more content with you now knowing that you read Joey as more likely town and re-reading that post. Though, I think you have a problem with reading people who dislike you or do not read you as "obvy townie" like you keep suggesting you are. Or you just want to inherently dislike them because you do not like people finding you scummy when you, yourself, are claiming you are town. You are confusing, but I feel that you may just be town who is confident in themselves.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

at this point i'm more interested in who doesn't find watt scummy

I got a feel of the dislike but not the why for him outside of posting fluff.

Is there more to it, due to finals the most I've done is skim the game.

 

[ranmaru]

Wrt Joey, I liked his WHOA WTF RAN realization. I think our argument may have invested him in the game a bit more. Anyways, I could tell this was townjoey because of the "Why the **** would you do that... it's because you didn't read it" He totally understood me. I would think him as scum would continue to badger me I would have to deal with the rest of the walls. : x

I have Mac as null. I had hoped he'd been a bro and argue out the original reasoning of why I read soup as scum so I could check myself, as I know he likes to argue. Yet he leaves things half way. He is only questionable to me. I'm also gonna pull out the SIMPSONS MAFIA card to remind him he super town read SoupSCUM (while I tried to argue Soupscum to him, and failed). So, if he is ok with looking at me with ranmeta, he should be looking at NL with some meta as well. (That I can reference later)

I prefer Gheb over WATT. Simply because today we are simply policy lynching, and I feel Gheb is more suspicious. (While the both of them aren't doing jack in a box) I don't see any scumminess but the lack of initiative from WATT won't make me shed a tear if he is lynched. I want to focus on No Lynch though, and I have another gut scum read that I need to solidify. (Yet can't, I think I spent enough time on No Lynch for today) Gheb has commented on my wagon 'having a use' but never got on it. He preferred not to answer Moira when asked about the potential I had, showing that he didn't have anything substantial, only that he was fine with my push since it was popular.

Also why is the Ranmaru push holding potential?

#424

I prefer to not answer the 2nd question.

Case Summary​

1. Soup tries to force an issue with Watt, when there is none.
2. He accuses of WATT not making sense when it does and he has given the explanation in his #35.
3. He doesn't acknowledge the reasoning, and instead tells him to not worry about it.
4. Never answered my question.
5. Tries to justify WATT's vote is weird by saying there is enough to garner from RVS.

• Soup avoids my issue, by calling me town to relieve the pressure off him.
• Has been playing it safe, has been content in throwing out town reads instead of actually scumhunting.
• Admits that he'd be sinking himself by answering.
• Soup's AtE was fake, to get attention off of him not being able to explain himself at the top of his head. Instead he yells "My #171!"
• He states he wants to replace out but never does, only said this for show. (Faking town frustration)

• No reason for him to get to that anger point.
• Says Moira voted them and that was what triggered him, when they never voted. They simply sided with my argument. (And made an argument of their own wrt to him telling ryu to stop vaccuous statements)
• States he won't analyze a post because it's 'tryte', to justify him not going to in-depth with a post.
• Soup clears me as obvtown too early, and when there is a wagon forming up on me, he has the urge to re-consider. This is not genuine townie intent, but wishy-washy scum.
• Zen side is content with throwing out half-ass reads (such as a scumpool) and easily takes them back when he finds a different path that is much more convenient.
• Soup lets Zen take the wheel while Soup doesn't really come back to do anything pro-active.
• Big post is a show. Simply a crackpot theory and a gorf case that isn't really suspicious.

Unvote Vote: No Lynch (Hydra)

Spoiler: No Lynch Scum Context Case

Simply put, I think you are trying to sling mud onto WATT for a weak reason. You don't really have much reason to discredit him from joining your push [while asking for his hand in the wagon], and it seems you are trying to force one. To me, him joining you on J would be better since nothing was happening with his Gheb vote. You also say him bringing up Mac/Gheb makes no sense when it does, and especially when he gives the reasoning [#35] and you don't even acknowledge it. It would be understandable if he had reasons to hold him back yet he still went on with voting J, but there was none strong enough. (Since his vote was RVS) You also have stated that it was weird that he moved on to J while having stated that Gheb OMGUSED him. Do you think an OMGUS is good enough to stay on a vote when a seperate wagon is forming up for pressure?

Vote: No Lynch

ADDENDUM (whatever that word means):

This is why I get the vibe that you are trying to force the issue here. You are justifying his vote being weird by saying that there is enough to get out of RVS, when his vote wasn't doing anything. It was just a reasonless RVS vote. If you think I'm thinking too thoroughly about this, then show me how. (By you showing that you are not doing what I think you are doing)

I still think this reasoning is solid. I can see why Ashemu feels it isn't enough, since it was early game. I am bringing it up as it is part of their whole play. I think Joey had a dislike for me saying that Soup 'does that' as scum, and I can say, that he has avoided logic when his logic (as scum) when his logic isn't sound. Again, I'll reference BIM mafia, where he explodes purposely to avoid talking about his faulty logic, which would show fake town intent. Now I also have talked about Soup leveling with me as town and not exploding purposely. This I can refer to Necromafia. Right after he explained himself, we found each other to be town. Again, that's the type of Soup I love to see. Anyways, I'd go and bring examples but I'm currently working on this long as case first. I promise to bring references after this though.

So, to double check myself, I have asked Macman to finish the argument with me about my reasoning. He never felt like doing so, because he sees me and NL as town. It was unhelpful, but I can't read anything else from it since at the moment my read on No Lynch was null.

It's time to bring this back to the surface:

- Soup tries to force an issue with Watt, when there is none.
- He accuses of WATT not making sense when it does and he has given the explanation in his #35.
- He doesn't acknowledge the reasoning, and instead tells him to not worry about it.
- Never answered my question.
- Tries to justify WATT's vote is weird by saying there is enough to garner from RVS.

Most importantly, Soup never refuted this assertion.

I'm going to ignore you for the rest of the game until scum NK's you, because you're painfully town. Emphasis on the pain. You're giving me a headache, we're 3 pages in and you've already managed to somehow find some ~deep intricate reason~ into every actual word I say. When I told you WATT was a feeling (and that feeling being weird), that's all it will ever be. That's all it is now. I can't level with you though because you're literally putting certain things into a color-bold, underlined emphasis like there's some ulterior motive behind them. There isn't. That's why I'm telling you take what I say at face value.

Instead he calls me obvious town to relieve the pressure from me. (that sounds so gay lol) I can't have a solid read on him solely from this, so I wait to be able to read his whole play, which I am doing now. I wasn't relieved with his response here, as it is not protown to leave me hanging here. I still have unanswered questions about him trying to justify WATT having a weird vote even though it was simply an rvs vote.

Read my #124.

@Zack Fair

Unvote. I seen J viewing this thread once or twice and he hasn't reacted to our pressure yet. I don't want our vote going to waste, but we should talk about where we want to go next. J dodging the thread indicative to you? Talk to me in our QT.

Not enough voting, obviously. I think he played it safer than he could have (such as voting Ryu) Not really telling, but it does contribute to him not really doing much to find scum.

This is going to lead me into a sinkhole if I'm not in one already, but take note of what I told Ranmaru earlier, take what I say with Face Value. I am not saying that I have all the answers, I am merely looking for them. It's beyond frustrating to come into this thread and have someone completely misread your real intentions in the first place

Red: He admits that he can't actually answer the issues brought against him. This is why he wouldn't talk about the issues, but instead gave me a full obvtownran pass when everyone else was obviously questioning it. (mac, gorf, ash, joey, gheb, in that order near early game)
Blue: He uses this as his ticket to try and get me to drop the issue (and others).

I think someone said this: "It makes it seem like you're trying to get away with things"

I can agree with that quote.

Like holy ****ing **** you're eating up Ranmaru's over-elaboration over a goddamn feeling I had about WATT like it was some godly tell on me, and what the **** do you want me to say to that? You're being really, really, ****ing dense.

I only touch on this slightly when I re-vote No Lynch. I will repeat it. Soup's AtE is fake here. I will state why. Soup does this BIG blow up (as you'll see below in all caps and bold) to clutter up the thread and steer discussion away from the original issue at hand. This is where references from BIM mafia would help to support my case, but I'll bring those in later. I'm focusing on finishing this case and I'll then support with meta.

I just woke up from a 6 hour nap and I genuinely don't know how to deal with this bull**** nor do I ****ing want to I kinda wanna replace out tbh

He states he just woke up to justify him being caught up guard. He also mentions he feels like replacing out, which is misplaced because he never truly replaced out, it was only a statement to show he seems to be looking into it, when it was only for show.

HAVE YOU EVER THOUGHT WHEN WE FLIP OFF THE HANDLE THAT MAYBE, JUST ****ING MAYBE, IT ISN'T SOME DUMB SCUM TACTIC BUT GENUINE ANGER THAT WE CANNOT PLAY THE GAME OURSELVES AND HAVE PEOPLE CONSTANTLY JUDGING US? DO YOU REALIZE HOW ANNOYING IT WOULD BE, SEEING A BUNCH OF PEOPLE MISREADING YOUR ACTIONS CONSTANTLY AND FEELING LIKE IT HAPPENS REGARDLESS OF HOW YOU PLAY????

I have a right to be angry.

This is genuine bull****. There was no reason to 'fly off the handle'. No one was pressuring him with ULTIMATE pressure or insults that would truly enrage him. He was simply being pushed with logic that he couldn't answer to.

Your vote immensely triggered me because nothing is more frustrating than getting voted for good intentions, and now I have to sit here and try my hardest to get you to see that because I looked at your post and said 'what worth would I really have trying to wholly appeal to this when I've already explained my actions before.'

Red, this never happened. He never explained his actions, he waved it off by calling me town, and telling me to take things at face value. That doesn't explain his actions.

I'm not analyzing the actual post because from my viewpoint it's just trite and not worth analyzing.

This isn't protown. It's very unhelpful to not look at something when you are being pressured. After re-reading the post and the #171, to me it seems he tried to carry a stubborn air to avoid actually talking about the issue again.

I think the crux of the issue is this quote: "You are content to throw around town reads at the time, but not doing much to establish scum-reads/scum-hunt."

He did it with Ryu and then Me. He explained to gorf that Ryu was actually null. Yet he didn't explain him clearing off me. I also agree with the assertion that he was content with simply throwing out town reads but not doing much to scumhunt or develop reads. Ashemu also notices this: #132

He didn't bother with Ashemu's Joey push. He also asked Ryu a question about Ashemu's push on him, but didn't really conclude anything about it afterwards. (He said Ashemu didn't really strike him as a prob)

more quotes about him yelling for Moira to read his #171

I appreciate you actually reading the post, honest. I'll take responsibility for that but the least I can say about it in my position that it was genuine and I don't feel bad about doing it. I wouldn't have gotten Red Ryu to crack in the same way he did had I not said something, so I'll take your words about 'disingenious' with a grain of salt. I don't agree Ryu is likely town. Why do you think that? He has done more that is worth pushing in my opinion. If you want a meta example, look at dining philosopher's. He's setting himself up on an image instead of actually doing something, and as said before, I was hoping I could get him to jump had I called him out on it. He didn't. I'd like you to tell me what you see behind his typical questioning that makes you think this.

He simply says that his intentions to emulate Zen were genuine, in rebuttal to ira saying it was disingenious.
He justifies it by saying he doesn't feel bad about it. That doesn't make it right or not suspicious.
He also gives an additional justification, saying that if it wasn't for that, Ryu wouldn't have cracked, therefore making his 'clearing' of ryu good.
He simply waves it off by saying he'll take it with a grain of salt.

I don't know if I should continue to fight on Ranmeta or consider him being scum.

*sigh*

This is also something that I really dislike from Soup. He clears me as town but he has the urge to want to switch from his really early Obv-townran read due to popular opinion. This isn't pro-town because it shows his reads are fake and he doesn't intend to defend those he thinks are innocent, but rather prefers to pile on them whenever he gets the chance.

Because I think you're town and your arguments are dumb. Like I can't even follow what your argument even is. Soup found Watt's eagerness to join his wagon suspect after he had just explained why voting Gheb or mac was the route to go. That's all there is to it. How the hell are you still on this after all this time? [Rhetorical, please don't answer]. Give me some input on Rake and Moira. I think Rake is scumbag.

omg

Blatant misrep. This was what I was trying to explain. WATT never said 'why not vote Gheb/Mac since I'm voting him" but "Why not gheb/mac wagon because they are harder to read than J." Watt wasn't on Gheb for what NL was doing, it was simply an rvs vote. Not for pressure. He wasn't interested in going towards Gheb and contradicting himself, he was interested in why NL would pick J over Gheb/Mac. This observation would not keep him from joining the J wagon when asked.

It's understandable to see why one would mix this up, but a townie would try to truly understand the difference. NL didn't care to.

@Gheb_01 I'm going to assume the answer is no? I'm sure you know what I'm getting at.

@Rake. I change my mind, you're chill for now.

I'm about to make an incredible 180° hill flip. Assuming I convince soup.

This shows to me NL isn't really trying to find scum, but is content with throwing out half-ass scumreads (rake) and then dropping them for an unknown reason.

Soup side has been inactive as I've been stressed and crunching on schoolwork, trying to focus less on Mafia. I let Zen take the wheel feeling like I perhaps really did need a break but I've still been making comments and working with Zen in our QT. We'll probably have a huge steam of content coming up pretty soon, but Zen will probably stay the active head at the moment until I get some time to actually start posting. Apologies.

This shows Soup didn't do much in terms of finding scum, gets flak, and takes a break and lets Zen take the wheel. I feel this was a scum recovery tactic. (Stalling) Hydra s can do this regardless of alignment, but Soup never had good reason to take a break.

Ruy is right at null. Scum lean to soup. Town lean to Zen. Would like to see if his read on us is the same after he catches up.

Ashemu's reaction to Zen's hypotheticals really made Zen reexamine his reading of Ranmaru. And soup has reluctantly agreed to do away with clearing him for activity meta. Zen has this whole Ranshegorf theory which will be explained below. Overall our lynch pool is as follows.

Vote: Gorf

Both of us agree that gorf is the grimiest slot. It's funny that he claimed Gheb to only be slinging mud when that's nonliterally all he's been doing all game:


As for scum #3, we agree with Moira and Gheb's cases on WATT. We don't get what's not to like about Gheb's #424. @ #HBC | Mac we feel your tunneling on Gheb is misguided if not strange. Gheb is always a middle ground player. Zen found him breaking his posting style suspicious as it shows concern over his image. But as we said, we like his case on WATT and agree with it.

WATT had done absolutely jack this game. He's given no direction or attempt to scum hunt at all. Unless you want to include the empty questions he forced out after Miora prodded him to. If you know Orbo you know how active he is in scum hunting. And he's shown to have the time to do so since he was actively participating in thread.

We believe Gorf, Ashemu, and WATT are scumbags and that their interactions support that. Gorf has been iffy on WATT all game despite having a scum vibes on every other non-town-leading players:

Haha what is this I don't even

There's other little out of place things in their interaction such as Gorf's comment in #247. This was right after Moira was calling Orbo out on his sidelining. Why has Gorf been slinging mud at almost every other player, but Orbo being scummy he just brushes off as funny?

Vote: Watt
Vote: Ashemu
Vote: Gorf

let's get this **** rollin. Would prefer to lynch Gorf, but willing to lynch either of the three.

First off, I am confused as to why Soup scumreads Ryu but doesn't do anything about it after. He doesn't really go into it in his reads after either. (Even if they are null as a hybrid, he could still mention it as Zen had done so before)

Secondly, I don't see the cases for either of Gord/Ash/Watt. Gord isn't pulling that much weight but I read it as null. Not enough for me to suspect him. With Ash, as she pointed out, that theory is moot without having a Gorf scumflip. (or me flip) His theory of me and then jumping to Gorf reads of him trying to tie anyone together into a hypothetical scumteam, instead of finding solid evidence of genuine scum.

So all this time to get out a crackpot theory, and a gorfmudlsingcase. Not good enough. I'm not convinced, and it simply won't relieve my concerns of earlygame soup. We must remember that Zen-side threw out scumreads half-assidly and was fine with Rake without really dooing much about it because he found a scumtheory that didn't show much in the end.