Zelda's Forward Smash?

[Demna]

Whenever I close by a Zelda (Especially with Metaknight/Ice climbers), she usually F-Smash. After shielding her F-smash, I am left in a range at which I can't attack/grab before she can use another F-smash to attack me. I try using my C-stick to DI toward her while shielding during the hitlagg of the move but it still puts me in a position where I can't attack her before she can use her F-smash again. Whenever I get close from above, she spams Up-smash.

This is getting really annoying and spammy.. Does anyone know a way to counter Zelda's F-smash?
Thanks

 

[NickRiddle]

Roll behind her.

 

[Demna]

Roll behind her.

Is there a specific/crucial time I should roll at? or is it okay if I roll at anytime?
Plus, what if I'm in a distance that won't allow my roll to get behind her? Sometimes my friend would just spam it and make it harder for me to even close in.

 

[NickRiddle]

Roll during the startup.
Also, anybody who can put a hitbox diagonally in front/below them can jump over the f-smash and then hit Zelda.

 

[Demna]

Roll during the startup.
Also, anybody who can put a hitbox diagonally in front/below them can jump over the f-smash and then hit Zelda.

So basically Metaknight's D-air is an example than can hit Zelda during her F-smash. However, It's kinda harder doing so with the Iceclimbers. Nana usually gets hit when I roll and there is no exact fast diagonal aerial that will allow the Iceclimbers to hit Zelda. What should be done?

 

[NickRiddle]

Blizzard .

 

[Demna]

Blizzard .

Thanks

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

Or tornado as mk

 

[Demna]

Or tornado as mk

Zelda can just shield it and use her Farorie's wind to recover her shield. She can ultimately punish the nado with Din's fire. There had been instances where I nado-ed in and Zelda F-smash out-prioritized Metaknight's Nado and resulted in getting hit by her F-smash.

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

The key is you jump up above the fsmash and use tornado to get over to punisher because it has absurd amount of aerial mobility.

 

[Demna]

The key is you jump up above the fsmash and use tornado to get over to punisher because it has absurd amount of aerial mobility.

What if Zelda punishes your land after the Nado? as in shield-grab or just use her F-smash again after the Nado subsides?

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

Tornado can be used to cruise over her fsmash and punish it before it ends. No shielding available also using tornado on shield isn't bad anyways because your eat the shield to better poke with your next tornado and if you are getting grabbed by zelda after tornado you messed up. you can retreat during tornado faster than zelda can run...

 

[Demna]

Tornado can be used to cruise over her fsmash and punish it before it ends. No shielding available also using tornado on shield isn't bad anyways because your eat the shield to better poke with your next tornado and if you are getting grabbed by zelda after tornado you messed up. you can retreat during tornado faster than zelda can run...

Tested out on my friend yesterday, worked out. Thanks for the effort

 

[Alacion]

Hold up during her f-smash.

Meta Knight's fair should beat out Zelda's everything. +4 for a reason, y'know.

 

[infiniteV115]

Don't ask character specific questions here. They belong in the character-specific subforums.
And don't make threads for a single question like this. Ask with a post in a general discussion thread, or in a Q&A thread.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

@Riddle: I do not get rolling. Yes, its a way to get behind someone, but if someone is spam happy then you are sort of hoping that they don't end up spamming the wrong thing. It depends upon the person. I'd rather just let them spam their little move and just punish the ending lag. The problem here is that someone is shielding in the first place which does not always allow the best punishment afterwards.

Then again, you tend to be a bit trolololy sometimes.

@Demna: If you shielded an Fsmash on shield from Zelda, then you already screwed up and should just get out of there. (I recall that move is not punihable by shield drop -> attack I believe). Go back and readjust your spacing. I mean if you are MK and she sticks her little arms in the air extending her hurtbox you can just space a fair or dtilt on it. As Ice Climbers, you can just rush in after she misses with Fsmash (only problem is that you'll likely be slow if you are not fast enough or close enough to react to the whiffed fsmash).

@Infinite: Let the mods deal with that stuff.

 

[Demna]

The shield/attack definitely did not work on Zelda's F-smash, I'd usually close in with a nado and SH-Nair to get the work done. I have complete advantage regarding Metaknight, however I still seem to struggle with Iceclimbers. The dash grab has to be extremely correctly timed in order to grab Zelda after her F-smash (Assuming she spams it).

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Stop approaching her with Ice Climbers; shield a lot and eventually there will be an easy to punish gap (which is when you go for a grab). Blizzard and ice blocks put up a wall that she can't get past.

 

[Demna]

Stop approaching her with Ice Climbers; shield a lot and eventually there will be an easy to punish gap (which is when you go for a grab). Blizzard and ice blocks put up a wall that she can't get past.

Shielding isn't the best option since you get pushed back from and can't land a punishment before receiving another F-smash from Zelda.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Why is that a problem?
Don't try and punish things that you can't punish, but shielding is better than getting hit.

 

[Demna]

Why is that a problem?
Don't try and punish things that you can't punish, but shielding is better than getting hit.

Of course it is, but that's not the problem right now. The problem is the method of approaching, Dash to shield grab won't work on Zelda's F-smash whatsoever. Desynched Blizzard won't work either due to Din's fire. The best method is to grab Zelda after her F-smash's ending lagg, but that's quite difficult to perform.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'm just saying that if you try and out-space and punish it every single time, that won't work, so don't be afraid to shield it and just leave it be

and you know you can clank out Din's fire with like, any attack? It is literally the worst projectile in the game.

 

[Demna]

I'm just saying that if you try and out-space and punish it every single time, that won't work, so don't be afraid to shield it and just leave it be

and you know you can clank out Din's fire with like, any attack? It is literally the worst projectile in the game.

A good Zelda will always try to place her Din's fire where you can't attack it and it still hits you, it does have a massive hitbox. Shielding is essential of course to every single match up. However, shielding and just "leaving it be" isn't promising and won't get me anywhere far.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Yes, it will. You don't have to punish everything that touches your shield >_>

And you can SH nair Din's fire pretty much on reaction, trust me, Din's Fire is balls. Also good Zelda is an oxymoron, you can't be good and use Zelda.

 

[Demna]

Yes, it will. You don't have to punish everything that touches your shield >_>

And you can SH nair Din's fire pretty much on reaction, trust me, Din's Fire is balls.

Regarding shielding, of course I will try to shield every single harmful attack, it's a simple game mechanic...
SH nair Din's fire won't work on all times, remember that your opponent too has a reaction as well.

Also good Zelda is an oxymoron, you can't be good and use Zelda.

That's mainly bias, anyone can play on a high level with any character.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

They can choose when to release the fire ball; but you can follow it's rough trajectory and speed as it comes towards you and time the SH and nair in such a way that it covers every release-time.

Not sure how you can call it bias (I don't have a personal vendetta against Zelda or anything lol), but no, you can't play at high level with any character, you can play at high level with good characters and that's it.

 

[Demna]

They can choose when to release the fire ball; but you can follow it's rough trajectory and speed as it comes towards you and time the SH and nair in such a way that it covers every release-time.

Not sure how you can call it bias (I don't have a personal vendetta against Zelda or anything lol), but no, you can't play at high level with any character, you can play at high level with good characters and that's it.

I've seen great player who are using top characters lose occasionally versus other great players who use lower-mid/low tier characters. I'm talking about high level, not top level.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Cool, those terms are subjective so whatever lol

glad to have helped you with your zelda problem

 

[Demna]

Cool, those terms are subjective so whatever lol

glad to have helped you with your zelda problem

Indeed, thanks for providing helpful information

 

[DeLux]

What am I reading?
Just spot dodge Zelda's Fsmash on shield hit confirm and then grab her >_>

 

[Demna]

What am I reading?
Just spot dodge Zelda's Fsmash on shield hit confirm and then grab her >_>

Zelda's F-smash hitbox is still present after an initial shield to spotdodge, or from what I personally experienced. When should one spotdodge? Is it mid-way through her F-smash?

 

[DeLux]

It hits your shield, you hit down to spot dodge on reaction to it hitting your shield. The move lags when it hits both climbers shields, but if you hold shield and option select with spot dodge, often times one of the climber's shields remains up while the other spot dodges. You then have a 50/50 of either being at obscene frame advantage for Popo or Nana to grab at which point you just have to make a harder conversion to the infinite on the times Nana is free.

Doing this also makes it so Zelda has to play a guessing game and tries to charge fsmash to mind game, which opens up rolling behind her.

 

[Demna]

It hits your shield, you hit down to spot dodge on reaction to it hitting your shield. The move lags when it hits both climbers shields, but if you hold shield and option select with spot dodge, often times one of the climber's shields remains up while the other spot dodges. You then have a 50/50 of either being at obscene frame advantage for Popo or Nana to grab at which point you just have to make a harder conversion to the infinite on the times Nana is free.

Doing this also makes it so Zelda has to play a guessing game and tries to charge fsmash to mind game, which opens up rolling behind her.

In conclusion, shield-spotdodge-grab will be landed on a F-smashing Zelda by either Nana or Popo, and from that it will be converted to an infinite chaingrab (if done correctly correctly). Is this correct?
Regarding other characters, will shield-spotdodge-grab land as pointed out with the Iceclimbers' grab procedure?

 

[Player -0]

Couldn't you just run up and SHAD and grab from behind or run up and stop just out of range and wait until the F-Smash is finished before running up and grabbing or something?

 

[Demna]

Couldn't you just run up and SHAD and grab from behind or run up and stop just out of range and wait until the F-Smash is finished before running up and grabbing or something?

What do you mean by "SHAD". Waiting for the F-smash and dash attacking is definitely is a solution, but it's risky and requires patience/correct timing. That's why I'm trying to search for a better solution in this thread.

 

[Player -0]

What do you mean by "SHAD". Waiting for the F-smash and dash attacking is definitely is a solution, but it's risky and requires patience/correct timing. That's why I'm trying to search for a better solution in this thread.

Short Hop Air Dodge and when I mean run up and SHAD I mean SHAD behind them, like from the front, so you go from the front, to the back.

 

[Demna]

Short Hop Air Dodge and when I mean run up and SHAD I mean SHAD behind them, like from the front, so you go from the front, to the back.

That's actually pretty hard to perform because the F-smash will last longer than your SHAD. That's why, as pinpointed by DeLux, that you should shield then spotdodge to reaction. However I'm not really sure if he's correct, still need to be tested.

 

[DeLux]

I'm still confused why zelda's even like, a problem at all

realistically you should just be able to walk at her and then wait for her to either do something dumb and jump over you. Then you uair her until she wants to land. Then you punish her landing.

 

[Demna]

I'm still confused why zelda's even like, a problem at all

realistically you should just be able to walk at her and then wait for her to either do something dumb and jump over you. Then you uair her until she wants to land. Then you punish her landing.

The problem is the lack of knowledge of her F-smash. You may face stupid things that you have trouble with due to inexperience, and usually one should discuss it with other who are experienced . Plus, I can't rely on Zelda's stupid move to punish. Anyways, I'll try to shield then spotdodge on shield hit to grab.

 

[Player -0]

That's actually pretty hard to perform because the F-smash will last longer than your SHAD. That's why, as pinpointed by DeLux, that you should shield then spotdodge to reaction. However I'm not really sure if he's correct, still need to be tested.

You SHAD THROUGH them, so it doesn't really need to last that long?