Zelda vs. ROB

[Lethal Beauty]

So supposedly Zelda is a good counter to ROB, but there happen to be some decent ROBs in my area that give me trouble. I don't understand what I'm doing wrong. DX Since I don't know where to start, I'm afraid I must be general and simply ask:

Got any tips?

 

[popsofctown]

I wouldn't say that Zelda is an I-Win button against Rob, but she has some things.

Tips from my own experience:

Learn to use Nayru's Love well in this matchup. This requires you to predict, not react. When you see the light on Rob's head go red, that means his laser is full. That means your opponent is losing usable charge time every moment he hasn't fired off his laser. Random and out of place, but i love your avatar. Anyway, when that red light is on, weight for a moment when, if you were ROB, you would fire your laser. At that moment, press B. His laser will come out at the same time as NLove, and he'll get hit. After a while, ROB's will start trying to mix it up, but you will still be messing with their game. OK other random comment, who is the girl in your sig chewing on a mouse cord?

Similar psychology can be used for the gyro, but remember that at many ranges it won't get all the way back to ROB, so you might as well take the less risky option, shield/airdodge. If it hits the ground you can pick it up, but the gyro isn't that conducive to Zelda's moveset, usually. You consider just tossing it away so ROB can't have it. (ROB definitely can have fun with it)

Learn to spam L if you get hit by Rob's fair. Rob's fair combos into itself like crazy, and Zelda's aerials simply are too slow. Zelda's aerials are great for moments when a character is confused in the air, or did something to early or too late, basically her air game is a punish game. Don't go head to head with ROB in the air, but if he opens him self up (like, maybe a missed nair), then punish it with a lightning kick.

If you are new to the character, which is kind of what you seem to be saying, try to skim a guide or something. I think Spazn has one that's at least ok, somewhere in here.
Main point for player's new to Zelda to know is, Dtilt is more awesome than you know. Every day i play the character i use dtilt more. Oh, and bair is faster and better than fair. In general, SH Din's is better than standing Din's. More or less, that's good enough to know, then practice using the character.
Ooh, maybe another thing i should mention is that Zelda players tend to spotdodge, a lot. Why? I dunno. Her grab is definitely not the best in the game, but downsmash after spot dodge is a really good tactic on the other hand.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I say be sure to start as shiek here and switch to Zelda at the first available opportunity after you get ROB to about triple digit damage

 

[Lethal Beauty]

Learn to use Nayru's Love well in this matchup. This requires you to predict, not react. When you see the light on Rob's head go red, that means his laser is full. That means your opponent is losing usable charge time every moment he hasn't fired off his laser.

Ah, yeah. Nayru's was great on clearly inexperienced ROBs. They're usually easy to predict, but playing some smart-game ROBs has really messed with my mind. I never knew about the whole red light, thing, though! This should be very useful!

I only counted on mind-gaming my opponent into believing they had convenient spacing/an opening to fire their laser which I would bait into a Nayru's. I'm convinced I've been figured out, though, and suddenly I'm the one getting mind-gamed into using Nayru's. They don't hesitate to take advantage of the lag after the move, so I don't use it as often.

Random and out of place, but i love your avatar.

Thanks. :D I main Zelda and Toon Link, so I thought a 'Toon Zelda' avatar would be suitable. I'm picking up G&W now, though.

OK other random comment, who is the girl in your sig chewing on a mouse cord?

That's me, and it's my GC controller. It's a custom sky blue/black one. Sky blue is my favorite color. XD It's from a photoshoot and I actually thought it looked decent so I just cropped it. And wah! I'm not 'chewing' it! Just biting it lightly, haha. I wouldn't dare chew on my precious cord. ;_;

Similar psychology can be used for the gyro, but remember that at many ranges it won't get all the way back to ROB, so you might as well take the less risky option, shield/airdodge. If it hits the ground you can pick it up, but the gyro isn't that conducive to Zelda's moveset, usually. You consider just tossing it away so ROB can't have it. (ROB definitely can have fun with it)

Yeah, these ROBs I play don't fire their gyros much on the stage. I noticed they like to fire it when they're off the stage, however, as well as their laser. That usually catches me off guard because when they're off the stage it's habitual for me to Din's (and I just float there, open for a gyro or laser if one misses) or even risk a sweetspot dair (and sometimes I get it, but most of the time I just run into a nair). I have a hard time edge-guarding ROB (it seems like there's no point with his incredible recovery) and as I type this I realize I may be better off just seriously ground-brawling it out for the KO.

Learn to spam L if you get hit by Rob's fair. Rob's fair combos into itself like crazy, and Zelda's aerials simply are too slow.

ARGH, yes, this has to be it! For all of my characters, I tend to SH around a lot (I mean, I'm not totally moronic about it), but I happen to love my aerials on all of my characters. I like to think I use more of Zelda's awesome ground attacks, but more often than not, I run into ROB's -aerials-. I think it's the moment I jump that I get nailed with an afterburner. They outrange me and come out quicker. Even the ground game is tough because of that accursed spot dodge to dsmash. Even his dtilt outranges mine. I just don't get it. Zelda seems like an awesome counter to ROB on paper, but from my experience, it's very difficult. An inexperienced and predictable ROB takes it up the bum, but an experienced ROB gives me hell. That bair is tricky, too, the way it moves... This is probably my biggest problem, though. I eat a nair more often than not. It's sad that I have to realize it this way, but I have only played ROBs in tournaments... when it's too late to learn.

I haven't fallen for the fair combos much, though. I don't know if they just don't do it or if it's because they realized I can time appropriate air dodges to fair that they don't do it anymore, but that hasn't been one of my key gripes about ROB's moveset.

If you are new to the character, which is kind of what you seem to be saying, try to skim a guide or something. I think Spazn has one that's at least ok, somewhere in here.
Main point for player's new to Zelda to know is, Dtilt is more awesome than you know. Every day i play the character i use dtilt more. Oh, and bair is faster and better than fair. In general, SH Din's is better than standing Din's. More or less, that's good enough to know, then practice using the character.
Ooh, maybe another thing i should mention is that Zelda players tend to spotdodge, a lot. Why? I dunno. Her grab is definitely not the best in the game, but downsmash after spot dodge is a really good tactic on the other hand.

Oh yes, I do all of the above already. I love dtilt to death and I feel like I get a little too "spot dodge -> dsmash" happy (but as long as it keeps working I'm going to keep doing it :x). I don't think it's a matter of not knowing my character, but not knowing ROB. He's a tricky hunk'a metal. It's him and MK I have the most trouble with.

Oh, to anyone reading this, would it help if I said I only play in local tournaments? As in, I never play online. Either way, timing is very essential to Zelda game-play.

I say be sure to start as shiek here and switch to Zelda at the first available opportunity after you get ROB to about triple digit damage

D'oh... I never play Sheik. It would probably help, huh? Well, so far I've been repping pure Zelda; no Sheik. I'm just so stubborn. This may be hurting my Zelda game a lot... but it's come to the point where I feel like I should no longer bother playing Zelda 1v1. I love her in teams, though. She's my Teams main. :3

Thanks a lot for your help. I really appreciate it! :D

 

[S2]

Beware ROB's n-air, that move outprioritizes tons of your stuff. And keep in mind his b-air hits on most of his body, not just the explosion part.

Here's some stuff Zelda has on ROB.

1.) Up-Smash. Self-explanatory pretty much, ROB doesn't want to come down on it. So keep in mind that you always have an advantage below. Just watch out for angled N-Airs. Zelda's upsmash doesn't protect from certain horizontal angles if the opponent has a strong priority aerial.

2.) Your d-smash can punish him. ROB knows that his d-smash can be used to punish opponents because it's ridiculously fast. So is yours. You can block and punish his d-smash with yours (at most spacings).

3.) Make him scared of your big, high priority hitboxes. This is why Zelda gets a good matchup against ROB. Up-smash ruins him from above and he'll have a hard time with your f-smash. Remember though that ROB does have decent range if he's using his d-tilt/f-tilt.

4.) Don't be fooled into thinking you have to approach. Many ROBs will use the gyro and laser to force your approach. Reflecting works if you can predict well, but sometimes it fails.

Here's a tip that's helped me in a lot of matchups (this is only for when your against an opponent who doesn't outrange you with something ridiculous. Like Marth, don't do this against Marth or you'll get tippered).

If an opponent is forcing you to approach, then do so... but only a little. What the opponent wants is for you to jump in and make a dumb mistake, leaving you open for a grab/d-smash/etc. What you want to do is approach just enough so that they don't feel safe shooting a projectile at you. Because they know if they miss, they'll get punished.

What you want to do exactly (and this is why I say not on Marths and be careful about very quick characters) is stand right outside their hotbox range. Zelda is going to outprioritize and outrange much of the cast. And there's nothing more uncomfortable than Zelda being that close, but not close enough to hit. And don't commit to anything with a long attack time, unless it's safe. Zelda has neutral-A and d-tilt for quick attacks that can easily lead to a smash as you come out of it.

Your opponent was shooting projectiles to force you to approach and make a dumb mistake, now you've turned the tables. He's nervous your so close and he can't hit you without committing to something he could be punished for if he misses. When people are nervous like that, they make mistakes. Although you'll really be able to figure out who is newb and who knows their stuff by what they do.

Keep in mind that standing right outside an opponent's hitbox is always risky, because if your spacing if off by a little it could be a big mistake for you. end rant.

4.) ROB has an amazing recovery, so make him eat Dins the whole way back. Once ROB does his up-b, he has to cancel it with an attack. Meaning he'll have to clash your Din's with an attack (like f-air) since he can't airdodge. He also can't use B-moves during his recovery, so he can't laser/gyro you once he's done this.

Din's ROB like no other, especially if he's going for the edge. He might get back, but he'll take damage in the process. And if decides to skip the edge and go above you, try to mindgame your way into up-air or up-smashing him as he comes down. Just be aware of his aerials and their priority. And keep in mind an opponent can't air-dodge into the ground over your up-smash. Try and force him to land over where you're going to be and hyphen-smash the oil out of him.


There's a bunch more stuff that can be said about this matchup, but I'm not going to list it all. Keep in mind that while Zelda basically has an advantage, it's very slight. Your not going to feel like this is an easy when against a top ROB player.

And yeah, learn Sheik. It ups your Zelda game a ton if you can use Sheik, since she does a lot of things Zelda can't. ROB for instance can be f-tilt locked if you catch him in the air with it. Sheik can also go after ROB during recovery and possibly gimp him. Like Zelda, Sheik's d-smash and f-smash are very fast, fast enough to punish ROB's d-smash and other stuff. Plus, you always get the distinct advantage of being able to transform into Zelda ROBs hit the triple digits, and Zelda has no knockback reduction, meaning easier kill on a heavyweight character. You can transform when ROB's recovering, since face it, he was going to make it back anyways. Except now, with a knockback refreshed Zelda you can try and kill him with 1 good smash. He can't use that super recovery if he dies off the sides or top.

 

[psike]

Something not mentioned yet: glidetoss the gyro into an upsmash, zelda has a lot of distance to do this. If the rob starts predicting this and holds his shield out, charge the upsmash and throw the timing off or wait for the rob to roll and do a dash attack.

 

[popsofctown]

If you learned sheik you would exactly match my mains and second and that would be creepy.'.'.'.

FYI, Toon Link + Sheik + Zelda has two bad matchups, MK and Olimar. Olimar is debatably a neutral matchup for the Sheik and/or Zelda.

 

[sniperworm]

Something not mentioned yet: glidetoss the gyro into an upsmash, zelda has a lot of distance to do this. If the rob starts predicting this and holds his shield out, charge the upsmash and throw the timing off or wait for the rob to roll and do a dash attack.

YES!!!! Most opponents I've played against are caught off guard when I glide toss something I caught back at them (it's like they assume you won't just because your character can't generate items). Plus Zelda's glide toss makes her move very quickly which also catches people by surprise since normally Zelda moves very slowly.

And yes, glide toss to upsmash is nasty if both hit (or if they shield drop after blocking the projectile).

 

[Rykoshet]

This is not gonna be that helpful but I dont see how rob vs zelda is remotely an advantage on zelda's part, rob has about as much reach/delay on a lot of his moves and a much superior aerial game. A rob can keep in the air far long enough to bait a zelda properly to leave herself wide wide wide open.

The tool against zelda is not a character, it's patience.

 

[Lethal Beauty]

Thanks! All of you gave me great tips (especially you, S2, thank you)! I never even thought about glide tossing the gyro into a U-smash. That's brilliant. This helps a lot. Much obliged.

 

[-Ai-]

Letahal Beauty.

Lure the ROB into a D smash. After its over...Hold your shield dont release it. Instead jump sheild into a F-air or a B-air depending on the situation. Yu have to stand anywhere at the end of his DSmash or a lil closer. For a zelda counter. Kills at 70-80% if done at the edge or so XD. If yu want i can show yu ^^.

 

[imdavid]

ryoko said this in the sheik boards..

shield his dsmash and let the rob player fear your kicks

well.. i wouldn't agree with using sheik until the kill seeing how zelda does so much better, but S2 covered the whole thing. also know... you're glide toss is better than his ;]

on complete off topic note... you have very nice teeth o_O