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Zelda too predictable?

Ricky_kun

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 25, 2006
Messages
54
Location
Texas, El Paso
I play Zelda as my main against my bro, whose main is Lucas. Since we play together all the time, I feel that Zelda is becoming too predictable. At first, I would slaughter my bro, until recently, he started to overpower me. Since Zelda isn't very versatile in movement or speed, there isn't much I can do to change things around.

Are there any mindgames or changes in strategy I should do? I would normally send a video to show you, but I can't film game-play.
 

Eten

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Messages
580
I dunno. Lucas/Ness is an annoying matchup for Zelda because of the psimagnet healing them when you go to use Din's Fire.

Normally I would not say Zelda is predictable or any more predictable than anyone else. The most common things I end up saying to people who need more variety is that they need to use more dashing shield grabs and shield grabs because their opponents have found that they can short hop aerials without being punished pretty easily or shield many things safely. But I think anyone here just needs more information to help you.
 

popsofctown

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
2,505
Location
Alabama
just ideas:

To mix up approaches:
Running shield grab.
Short hopped aerials.
Hyphen dash.
Running dash attack (probably the least of those).

To mix up responses:
Roll away.
Shield an take it, respond with a grab.
Nayru's love.
Use an A attack with precedence over whatever is happening.

Also, remember that Nayru's love might not always be the best move just because lucas shot some projectile at you. It creates lots of lag.
 

KiteDXX

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
116
She's only predictable if you make her.

Even then, she's still dangerous on the approach, and none of her "good" attacks are really easy to dodge if you're in range.

I'm convinced Brawl boils down to prediction and mindgames in the very end. It's what makes someone better than someone else in my eyes, not just the character matchup picked.

As for your strategy, Lucas can PSI Magnet that Din's Fire, but you must understand that it doesn't mean it isn't viable at all. I wouldn't count on many players far from the ledge trying to absorb those instead of focusing on the recovery. You just can't approach with them against a Lucas.

If he's rolling through you, remember that Nayru's catches them mid-roll and throws them back the way you're facing. Easy damage and a parry of sorts.
 

CCC07

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
161
Location
Columbus, GA
She's only predictable if you make her.
As for your strategy, Lucas can PSI Magnet that Din's Fire, but you must understand that it doesn't mean it isn't viable at all. I wouldn't count on many players far from the ledge trying to absorb those instead of focusing on the recovery. You just can't approach with them against a Lucas.
with zap jump lucas players really shouldnt have to worry about their recover.
 

Iris

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 31, 2007
Messages
532
That's true, if you can harness the range for Din's Fire, you can cancel out the PK thunder and avoid hitting Lucas, though it takes a considerably quick reaction time. It's probably more effective on Ness since he can't recover as fast.
 

Ricky_kun

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 25, 2006
Messages
54
Location
Texas, El Paso
My main problem with Lucas is his.. well.. speed. Since he is small, it becomes a lot harder for me to kick him, and it seems to me that my Din's Fire is easily absorbent to him.

He's very small and his Nair leads me as a pawn to his combos. If I could somehow stray my brother from block-grabbing constantly, what would it be? Is staying further away from him my best bet; every time I am near him, I get whacked by his stick. D:
 

calicocal

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
27
Location
WI
If he is doing a shield grab when he you do a dash attack, do a sliding shield grab that will grab him before he can grab you. Also use your Din's Fire to set up usmash, fsmash, fair, and bairs.
 

S2

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 4, 2004
Messages
1,503
Location
Socal 805 (aka Hyrule)
Lucas/Ness is a hard matchup because you have to be super careful about using Din's, something that you'll basically abuse against everyone else.

One note on using Din's though, you can still use tactics where you explode Din's relatively close to you (so it'll stop someone as they make their approach without getting them to close to actually hit you if they shield). Most Ness/Lucas players aren't going to pull their absorb move out if they run the risk of taking more damage from another move. Just keep in mind when its safe to do this.

If you're feelnig too predictable, then you need to vary Zelda's defense. Her D-smash, F-smash, Neutral A, F-tilt, and D-tilt are all very good for protecting in front and she's basically covered from air attacks with the up-smash/up-tilt.

The speed, startup/end lag differences, and hitboxes on a lot of Zelda's moves are relatively similar but slightly different. What that means is you need to use a variety of her attacks. If you're just using the smash attacks and maybe 1 other move, then all your opponent has to do is wait and counter because he knows the timing of when to hit you. I say that because nearly every Zelda player starts off as a smash @#$RE and over uses them without touching the tilts.

That being said, dont' just throw moves out there. Watch the spacing and use each tilt/smash in the correct situation. Just spamming attacks isn't going to help you.

One last thing, against Ness/Lucas don't make stupid aggressive moves just because you can't bait him in closer (with Din's). There are moments when you need to play Zelda aggressive, but don't do it just because you can't force him to come to you right away.
 

ZrOx

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
7
what i have noticed when playing with zelda, she often gets stuck getting areial comboed. So you should throw in a lot of air dodges, that seems to help alot, and is a great mindgame since you can do it so often.
 

CCC07

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
161
Location
Columbus, GA
Lucas/Ness is a hard matchup because you have to be super careful about using Din's, something that you'll basically abuse against everyone else.

One note on using Din's though, you can still use tactics where you explode Din's relatively close to you (so it'll stop someone as they make their approach without getting them to close to actually hit you if they shield). Most Ness/Lucas players aren't going to pull their absorb move out if they run the risk of taking more damage from another move. Just keep in mind when its safe to do this.

If you're feelnig too predictable, then you need to vary Zelda's defense. Her D-smash, F-smash, Neutral A, F-tilt, and D-tilt are all very good for protecting in front and she's basically covered from air attacks with the up-smash/up-tilt.

The speed, startup/end lag differences, and hitboxes on a lot of Zelda's moves are relatively similar but slightly different. What that means is you need to use a variety of her attacks. If you're just using the smash attacks and maybe 1 other move, then all your opponent has to do is wait and counter because he knows the timing of when to hit you. I say that because nearly every Zelda player starts off as a smash @#$RE and over uses them without touching the tilts.

That being said, dont' just throw moves out there. Watch the spacing and use each tilt/smash in the correct situation. Just spamming attacks isn't going to help you.

One last thing, against Ness/Lucas don't make stupid aggressive moves just because you can't bait him in closer (with Din's). There are moments when you need to play Zelda aggressive, but don't do it just because you can't force him to come to you right away.
finally someone else who cant stand players that never use tilts. Zelda forward tilt is perfect for when people try sh air and her up tilt is very powerful. Some zelda players i know really need to use other moves besides smashes and din's fire.:urg:
 

Zelda_Sheik

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
109
In melee I used a lot of U-tilt and F-tilt because they were pretty decent. Now, they are even better and some people don't even use it. The only attack of Zelda that I use only like once is her D-tilt. I simply can't use that attack. Can someone tell me which are the best situations for using it?
 

c0ld-

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
4
Location
Perth, WA
I agree with most of the posters here, it seems your a bit too predictable. Practice, watch some videos and try out some new things. Learning new moves and the best time to execute them will make you an even stronger player.

Best of luck.
 

goodkid

Smash Lord
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
1,066
Location
Homewood, IL
Zelda has a ton of variety, you just have to mix it up. All of her smashes work well, and try to use u-tilt as your killer, because it can be unpredictable.
 

CCC07

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
161
Location
Columbus, GA
In melee I used a lot of U-tilt and F-tilt because they were pretty decent. Now, they are even better and some people don't even use it. The only attack of Zelda that I use only like once is her D-tilt. I simply can't use that attack. Can someone tell me which are the best situations for using it?
Trust me you want to use d tilt. at lower % is trips the opponent making it possible to follow up with a down smash. or d tilt, d tilt, d smash. at higher % it pops them up so u can do down tilt, up tilt combo. learn the right time to do d tilt cause it can be very rewarding.

other combos
d tilt, f smash
d tilt, u smash
d tilt foward tilt.... ect....

there are plenty of things u can do with down tilt so make sure u use it.
 

brawlerbrad91

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
239
Location
Sterling, VA
well, Zelda's not really a good match up, so i think you would get the best variety if you press downB and started using shiek for a totally different approach, become good with both characters so you have the ability to switch around chars for different matchups, probably the best variety ever is having two totally different chars w/ different approaches
 

ducky285

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
222
Location
Cicero, IL
well, Zelda's not really a good match up, so i think you would get the best variety if you press downB and started using shiek for a totally different approach, become good with both characters so you have the ability to switch around chars for different matchups, probably the best variety ever is having two totally different chars w/ different approaches
I was just about to post this.

Yeah, I would highly suggest getting used to Sheik. She works well to throw your opponent for a loop. If you think your opponent is catching wind of your moves, throw them off the stage and take the opportunity to switch. Use Sheik's speed to confound them and build up their damage, maybe even KO (u-smash works well for KOs. Not much else does, though).
 
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